I heard tell of a 1960's Fiero dream car. The only drawing I saw looked like a cardboard box about the size of a stove. It had some type of grown up lawnmower engine. Anyone have the true story here?
I heard tell of a 1960's Fiero dream car. The only drawing I saw looked like a cardboard box about the size of a stove. It had some type of grown up lawnmower engine. Anyone have the true story here?
go do search for "i found this at a street rod show Fiero GTA" that my story of this car
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05:50 PM
Tabs31 Member
Posts: 2049 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Nov 2001
Why after all these years is there so much info on the 90 prototype??
Because of the "undenyable" showing of support for the Fiero. This forum, carlisle show, GM nationals 20th anniversary and the multitude of Fiero clubs and events does not escape the notice of GM or moreover the notice of magazine writers.
Take note, the car you drive is unique. It's not your average run of the mill automotive failure but rather a misunderstood concept that was given a bad rap.
I don't know about you guys but I have driven IROC Z28s, Corvettes, Fierbirds and a plethora of imports and for a budget "commuter" car nothing else US made even comes close to giving me the feeling a fiero does. None!
------------------ --Adam-- 1987 Blue GT 5-speed IM AOL: FieroGT5speed 16 years old and already selling my stuff to pay for repairs to my Fiero...which i sold my stuff to buy in the first place
Take note, the car you drive is unique. It's not your average run of the mill automotive failure but rather a misunderstood concept that was given a bad rap.
I'll give you unique, but it was a run-of-the-mill failure and I rarely mis-understand my cars.
But you still get to be president.
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10:29 PM
Cheever3000 Member
Posts: 12400 From: The Man from Tallahassee Registered: Aug 2001
As a matter of fact, CFOGi is holding elections this Fall. Wait, is 84Bill a member? Okay, Kameo Kid then! Maybe we should hold off the campaigning until after the 20th anniversary.
TK The Fiero was only a failure in public perception fueled by the relentless hammering by the media. We Fiero people know this already Not many cars fail only because of misplaced bad press.
The Fiero has most of the qualities of todays multi platform cars. It's adaptability and realitive plug and play approach to body modification and it's fairly wide range of engine acceptance makes it venerable.
Look at the 88 "hybred" suspension and you can see where GM intended to take the Fiero. It was destined to be the flagship of Pontiac innovation, the 90 prototype shows it well.
But someone somewhere made a decission and in business there is no second guessing a decission.
Damn this car is fun to drive, it took me a few years of driving other cars to realize this. The first time I drove a fiero (in 87)I didn't like it, 10 years later (97) I couldn't see myself without one. I finaly discovered what the qualities of a good car were, my beautifull fully loaded white 79 Camaro Berlinetta with T-Tops and black cloth interior compaired to a beatup red faded 86 2.5 5 speed Fiero coupe.
Says alot The more shows we go to the more exposure we get and the more the media realizes the mistakes it made. The car is still around and a thriving community jealously guards it.
President.. LOL!
I'll join CFOG if you want me on the ticket. I think I would better serve the community as the PR guy. I would target the media and entice them to take a closer look. President of CFOG? Well I definatly have the time.
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 05-29-2003).]
TK The Fiero was only a failure in public perception fueled by the relentless hammering by the media. We Fiero people know this already Not many cars fail only because of misplaced bad press.
I know, I was just funnin' ya. I just don't see the failure as anything special. It failed because people stopped buying them. Why they stopped buying them was for the same reasons other cars failed. Bad press comes from a bad product. When it was fixed, people didn't want it. Now we do!
I'll join CFOG if you want me on the ticket. I think I would better serve the community as the PR guy. I would target the media and entice them to take a closer look. President of CFOG? Well I definatly have the time.
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 05-29-2003).]
yes PR, your eyes must be brown huh... I find this car, prove it's still alive,more than once.. and you write a wonderful speach and they want to make you pres and your not even a member ....wow sounds alot like the White House huh..besides i'm too busy chasing this car to do any pres duties, and I was already named the new God of Fieroland when i found it the first time...(sigh) how soon they forget...(j/k just had to jerk you chain a lil there bud)
Oh by the way the Accel Fiero GT drag car that i was also tring to get to the 20th.. ....the driver and pres of the company blew the motor so I'm not sure if it'll be there or not.. still have to have a meeting with him.
[This message has been edited by Kameo Kid (edited 05-30-2003).]
Kid! Thanks for posting the story I told you about last week! Also what,s all this lost 1990 GTP prototype stuff? It was never lost , just not shown because of the bad feelings with in GM, Pontiac and the UAW because of politics and broken promises [This info came from members of the Fiero dersign team that release the original pictures at the Silverdome show in the 1990's]! By the way the Gray GTP and four 1990 coupes are still around too. By the way the Fiero of the 1960's was based on a Firefird and was a 2 seat concept. It is picture in some Pontiac books and was shown for 2 years. One year as the Fiero and one as a Firebird. It was a neat looking car. Also you will find that Pontiac is just trying to Clean up the Fiero image they abandoned because they want a new 2 seater. If you put a good spin on the Fiero It makes it easier to sell GM on making a busness case for production for the Solstice roadster. Pontiac is out to make money not friends with Fiero fans, but we will benefit from the wind fall of attention. If you had not noticed the 4 seater was posted here at a show this spring, It is not brought out often.
Kid! Thanks for posting the story I told you about last week! Also what,s all this lost 1990 GTP prototype stuff? It was never lost , just not shown because of the bad feelings with in GM, Pontiac and the UAW because of politics and broken promises [This info came from members of the Fiero dersign team that release the original pictures at the Silverdome show in the 1990's]! By the way the Gray GTP and four 1990 coupes are still around too. By the way the Fiero of the 1960's was based on a Firefird and was a 2 seat concept. It is picture in some Pontiac books and was shown for 2 years. One year as the Fiero and one as a Firebird. It was a neat looking car. Also you will find that Pontiac is just trying to Clean up the Fiero image they abandoned because they want a new 2 seater. If you put a good spin on the Fiero It makes it easier to sell GM on making a busness case for production for the Solstice roadster. Pontiac is out to make money not friends with Fiero fans, but we will benefit from the wind fall of attention. If you had not noticed the 4 seater was posted here at a show this spring, It is not brought out often.
Well when Hulki (father of the Fiero) tells you it was crushed!!! and that was at a Fiero show in Mich last year.. When GM was cleaning house... I call that LOST (never to be seen again) and a lot of people on this forum along with myself felt that it was, we have no reason to doubt him, and i'm sure that is what he was told. Not till later that same year (2002) and at a street rod show had anyone saw it (for years)that i'm awear of and that's where I took the picz to proof it wasn't. The man who was responseable for it being at the show told me that it hadn't been out for years. So that is why i used the term "lost"
yes PR, your eyes must be brown huh... I find this car, prove it's still alive,more than once.. and you write a wonderful speach and they want to make you pres and your not even a member [This message has been edited by Kameo Kid (edited 05-30-2003).]
Be careful of what you read and hear. Hulki is a very nice man, a great engineer and has a lot of good info to offer but he is also a very free spirit. He says and does what he wants and it not always accurate. Pontiac has saved almost all of the prototypes of the Fiero. GM If you have not notice has saved most of its prototypes since the late 1970's when they found out they were losing their history. The toy shop as it is called is a collection of buildings GM has in secret locations that not only store Prototype Fieros but even things like a AWD twin engine Chevy Citation. The engine in the rear predated the Fiero and is set up much like it turned out in our cars. All of these cars are hope to be put in a museum some day when funding is available. The 1990 car was never crushed but GM had not offered even a picture till John Schinella Pontiac Design Chief was mad that the car was pulled from a mid 1990 Fiero show due to GM and UAW politics and brought them to a dinner he spoke at. The car was shown quietly at few shows until lately. Pontiac wants a new 2 seater so they need to clean up the mess they left the Fiero in when they stopped producing it. Please don't get me wrong on Hulki I first met him in the early 1990's and have seen and heard some of what he has to offer. Most of it is good info but some of it changes over as time passes. Remeber he has been out of GM for a good while. I thank you on the picture you did take but please be more accurate about the long and lost part. How about rarely seen? If you believe everything your told you will always be at a Holiday Inn Express.
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11:00 PM
hyperv6 Member
Posts: 6099 From: Clinton, OH, USA Registered: Mar 2003
Kid, sorry for the nit pick and please don't take any of this the wrong way I don't mean no harm in any of this. I got hooked on the Fiero in 1980 when I saw it in a magazine and called a new GTO. I have owned my car for 18 years and saw the Fiero come and go. I just want to help keep info on this site as accurate as possable. You know when inaccurate info is given to ten people, they tell ten and you know how it can spread. A good example is the fires in Fiero's, some non owners have heard the stories so much they think all of them are just waiting to explode. We know better and need to try to change these stories. I know where you got your info and understand your trust in it. Its just up to the Fiero owners and fans like you and I to keep the record accurate as no one else will do it for us. It is very important now preserve history as more new owners have just bought their cars in just the last few years and are looking for Fiero history.
A good example is the fires in Fiero's, some non owners have heard the stories so much they think all of them are just waiting to explode. We know better and need to try to change these stories. I know where you got your info and understand your trust in it. Its just up to the Fiero owners and fans like you and I to keep the record accurate as no one else will do it for us. It is very important now preserve history as more new owners have just bought their cars in just the last few years and are looking for Fiero history.
Looks like I have a running mate
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01:05 AM
indypbody Member
Posts: 314 From: san diego CA. USA Registered: Jun 2002
Be careful of what you read and hear. Hulki is a very nice man, a great engineer and has a lot of good info to offer but he is also a very free spirit. He says and does what he wants and it not always accurate. Pontiac has saved almost all of the prototypes of the Fiero. GM If you have not notice has saved most of its prototypes since the late 1970's when they found out they were losing their history. The toy shop as it is called is a collection of buildings GM has in secret locations that not only store Prototype Fieros but even things like a AWD twin engine Chevy Citation. The engine in the rear predated the Fiero and is set up much like it turned out in our cars. All of these cars are hope to be put in a museum some day when funding is available. The 1990 car was never crushed but GM had not offered even a picture till John Schinella Pontiac Design Chief was mad that the car was pulled from a mid 1990 Fiero show due to GM and UAW politics and brought them to a dinner he spoke at. The car was shown quietly at few shows until lately. Pontiac wants a new 2 seater so they need to clean up the mess they left the Fiero in when they stopped producing it. Please don't get me wrong on Hulki I first met him in the early 1990's and have seen and heard some of what he has to offer. Most of it is good info but some of it changes over as time passes. Remeber he has been out of GM for a good while. I thank you on the picture you did take but please be more accurate about the long and lost part. How about rarely seen? If you believe everything your told you will always be at a Holiday Inn Express.
Boy you aren't kidd'n. I met Larry Shinoda at a Bloomington show a few years back. He was off on all sorts of "FACTS" about the vette's he contributed design work on. Just goes to show you have to validify scoops and rumors by cross referencing several different sources.
-Tony
------------------ Tony ------------- X-84 Indy Fiero 72K orig paint 87 Fiero GT 140K orig paint!Prrrfect 83 Lotus Esprit 19K orig paint 80 Turbo Trans Am 64K orig paint 99 Merc SLK Sport 38K perfect paint 71 Mach1 ?K orig paint!!
Kid! Thanks for posting the story I told you about last week! Also what,s all this lost 1990 GTP prototype stuff? It was never lost , just not shown because of the bad feelings with in GM, Pontiac and the UAW because of politics and broken promises [This info came from members of the Fiero dersign team that release the original pictures at the Silverdome show in the 1990's]! By the way the Gray GTP and four 1990 coupes are still around too. By the way the Fiero of the 1960's was based on a Firefird and was a 2 seat concept. It is picture in some Pontiac books and was shown for 2 years. One year as the Fiero and one as a Firebird. It was a neat looking car. Also you will find that Pontiac is just trying to Clean up the Fiero image they abandoned because they want a new 2 seater. If you put a good spin on the Fiero It makes it easier to sell GM on making a busness case for production for the Solstice roadster. Pontiac is out to make money not friends with Fiero fans, but we will benefit from the wind fall of attention. If you had not noticed the 4 seater was posted here at a show this spring, It is not brought out often.
Well let me see where to start.. First I have no reason to "not believe" Hulki and believe you. Don't know you from Adam and until I FOUND (besides when someone is lost at sea or missing and thought to be dead, they don't say we have pictures of the "rarely seen", no it's today so-n-so was Found) the 90 Prototype at a street rod show, you had no facts to back you claim that the car was still around either. Why are you out to discredit Hulki and the others. You sound like a GM PR rep. whos job it is to make it all better now!!, When did a car company ever care what a small group of people thought? If anything they would have to convince the larger group of non-buyers of the Fiero that their new two seater wasn't like a Fiero (catches on Fire) which is still what POPS into non-Fiero people's mind when the name is mentioned.
Quote by you: Please don't get me wrong on Hulki I first met him in the early 1990's and have seen and heard some of what he has to offer. Most of it is good info but some of it changes over as time passes. Remeber he has been out of GM for a good while. I thank you on the picture you did take but please be more accurate about the long and lost part. How about rarely seen? If you believe everything your told you will always be at a Holiday Inn Express. :End Quote
the info that the car and others were crushed was givin by GM to Hulki, not dreamed up by Hulki. and if you talking about the lil pic in Hot Rod and me finding the car...I'm talking bout the pics i took LAST YEAR when (i found) the car. At that time it was thought to have been destroyed and alot of people still didn't believe the pics were real then. And until that time YOU had no real prove either that the car was still around... I have to run but will add more to this later.
I'm back. So that is what I'm trying to do is get in information STRAIGHT.. After I FOUND the 90 Prototype last year and had made the connections to get the car to the 20th aniversary show we had a one GM's Pontiac Historians, fill us full of BAD information on this car and they said, the person responsible for having it out of the vault was reasigned and telling us that the car wasn't supposed to be seen and was going back into the vault NEVER to be seen again and was possibly going to be disassembled. and that there was NO HOPE of this car or others being at the 20th show.. (don't believe me) ask the presidents of the two clubs working together to put on the 20th show, go ask Robert Holtz. this is what they were told.. Well it took me awhile longer to get to the bottom of it and get that information STRAIGHT but I got ahold of my connections at GM and found that the info givin was false and we worked together to get this and the other prototypes to the 20th show. Later meetings were set up with the two clubs by GM to finalize the deal and the rest is to be seen at the "Event to Remember"
So pal I feel that I not only FOUND IT, I've had to chase to it, follow it, and straighten out the story of it.. I can be thankful to GM for not destroying it, and bringing it and the others to the show. "Thank You GM for all your support at the 20th show" my hat's off to them for all their upcoming support with the show.
and as for you? If it wasn't for me finding out that this car was still alive and well TWICE. you couldn't make statments like this: (you said)
Be careful of what you read and hear. Hulki is a very nice man, a great engineer and has a lot of good info to offer but he is also a very free spirit. He says and does what he wants and it not always accurate.(end quote)
So why the heck should anyone believe your slamming of Hulki as fact. Who are you that anyone should believe you?? by the way he's not the only one that said they cars were crushed from the design team.. So I hope that gets YOUR facts STRAIGHT as to what has happened, and as far as your (GM saving their history??) oh please. those cars are design experiments after they have full filled there usefulness alot of them are CRUSHED, NOT preserved.. and if I could get the backing $$$$$ I've already looked into and would like to build a museum to where these cars by the big 3 and others could be preserved.
I think that GM now has a lot of monies to be made off of the new sport compact buyers and have realized that the Fiero would be perfect for this evergrowing market so they're looking to build a new two seater and may want are support for the lil car.. look how well the MR2 is still doing.. GM is looking for a way into this market with other cars that the youth will buy. But your still going to have the guys at Chevy crying "Don't touch my Corvette", which would have and still could meet it's match. The Fiero had more bang for the buck, and still does.. I think that maybe GM should talk to there engineers and come up with more after market goodies to clean up the image of the what the Fiero could have been and disspell the past image,then move on to bigger and better things for this ever growning market for the new car buyer. (just my $0.02 worth)
[ I hate LONG posts but this one was called for..!! This message has been edited by Kameo Kid (edited 05-31-2003).]
[This message has been edited by Kameo Kid (edited 05-31-2003).]
jesus F'ing Chrimany! Kameo Kid. If i didnt know better from your posts. i would say you are on the verge of thinking this car was created and exists because of you!
pull your tongue out of hulkis arse. Hyper has obviously heard what hulki has been saying over the years far more than you. i believe he said "his facts change as time passes" sounds to me like a fact remains the same and is not subject to change due to the passing of time.
and one more thing...any moron with a camera could have taken pictures of that car at the rod show. what makes you so god like just because it happened to be you with the camera. good grief! i am glad the Mich Fiero club took the captains chair on the 90, because if i had to read another pompous proto post from you claiming exclusive rights over anything said or done over this car i was going to throw-up!
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01:14 PM
PFF
System Bot
hyperv6 Member
Posts: 6099 From: Clinton, OH, USA Registered: Mar 2003
I am dropping this here. All I ask is please collect all the info you can but, just question anything you hear no matter if its me, Hulki or anyone. It is best to confirm your info in more than one place. My info was confirmed by John Shinella, John Cafaro and Bob Dorn. Remember it was you who that prove Hulki was wrong! You need to consider he is like us, and none of us have all the parts to the puzzle? You did get great pictures and congratulate you on your find! I am done on this topic and will not contiue it. Please I want to leave this here as friends not foe!? By the way I don't work for GM
jesus F'ing Chrimany! Kameo Kid. If i didnt know better from your posts. i would say you are on the verge of thinking this car was created and exists because of you!
pull your tongue out of hulkis arse. Hyper has obviously heard what hulki has been saying over the years far more than you. i believe he said "his facts change as time passes" sounds to me like a fact remains the same and is not subject to change due to the passing of time.
and one more thing...any moron with a camera could have taken pictures of that car at the rod show. what makes you so god like just because it happened to be you with the camera. good grief! i am glad the Mich Fiero club took the captains chair on the 90, because if i had to read another pompous proto post from you claiming exclusive rights over anything said or done over this car i was going to throw-up!
OK OK the God of Fieroland was a joke, just thought it funny so calm down someone put that in the orginal post.. I don't think the car is here because of me K? I posted that because I was been slammed for saying "I found" GOT IT?? so the whole post was to try to straighten out some of the info and correct it and for why I using "I FOUND IT", I just happened to be at the right place at the right time,and that's all I ever really said, (but i did get ahold of GM and get the ball rolling on getting it to the 20th TWICE ) hell the pictures aren't that great and they were too few.. besides who the heck is hyper to come on here and be the know it all of how GM runs there business and we should believe everything he says huh?? Hulki and others just have more weight behind what they say than hyper does at this time, and there not on this forum to say there piece, and no my tongue ain't up nobody's a$$ I'm just standing up for something that the person isn't here to say for themself.
i'm soooo sorry if my trying to say any thing on here to correct the facts offended you..
I am dropping this here. All I ask is please collect all the info you can but, just question anything you hear no matter if its me, Hulki or anyone. It is best to confirm your info in more than one place. My info was confirmed by John Shinella, John Cafaro and Bob Dorn. Remember it was you who that prove Hulki was wrong! You need to consider he is like us, and none of us have all the parts to the puzzle? You did get great pictures and congratulate you on your find! I am done on this topic and will not contiue it. Please I want to leave this here as friends not foe!? By the way I don't work for GM
thanks...don't concider you a foe and that's all I'm trying to do (get some info straight)...and yes I did prove Hulki wrong but only because he was misinformed not because he is an aging man who can't get the parts to all work right. He wasn't the only one that said the car was nomore and I'm just glad to prove them wrong.. and the car ain't here because of me... and I ain't trying to pump up Kameo Kid but I put a lot of time in doing what to get that car to the 20th and gave the clubs all the info to the clubs only to have it all fall apart again, so I had to do it twice is all. so ALL could see it as I did, and that was only because others had faided to do so before me.. I just know where and how to hunt something down it I want it bad enough..
So that was to see where you got your intell from and if it had any weight behind it?? and to explain my use of the word FOUND.. but now i'm not too sure bout that Damien guy hummmmm j/k
[This message has been edited by Kameo Kid (edited 05-31-2003).]
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02:16 PM
hyperv6 Member
Posts: 6099 From: Clinton, OH, USA Registered: Mar 2003
Kid! One last thing if you want the car at the show keep working to the last day. It has been promised before and was pulled at the last minute. Make sure they don't do it again. They may be easier work with this time than in the past? The bad feelings from the UAW reason was what they have used in the past [all the shows were in Michigan]. Maybe enough time has past it won't be a issue. Also I am tring to get info on all the Fieros GM still have. I have a contact in the GM Toy Shop that I am tring to get all of what I have confirmed and I will post later if I get any good info. Im Out of Here See Ya Friend!
Kid! One last thing if you want the car at the show keep working to the last day. It has been promised before and was pulled at the last minute. Make sure they don't do it again. They may be easier work with this time than in the past? The bad feelings from the UAW reason was what they have used in the past [all the shows were in Michigan]. Maybe enough time has past it won't be a issue. Also I am tring to get info on all the Fieros GM still have. I have a contact in the GM Toy Shop that I am tring to get all of what I have confirmed and I will post later if I get any good info. Im Out of Here See Ya Friend!
Well hopefully MFC and CFOG will do that, GM didn't want to deal with more than one group or persons so I bowed out after giving them the info needed (twice), and let they have it since it's in their backyard and could be able to make any and all meetings that they may need to as i'm a good 5hrs away.. I may check with some contacts to touch base but it's outta my hands and they should have all the contacts needed to make sure that the cars will be there now.. it's their show, not mine, so let's hope everything goes as planned..
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05:30 PM
Jun 1st, 2003
FieroMonkey Member
Posts: 3294 From: poway,CA,USA Registered: Nov 2002
Not many cars fail only because of misplaced bad press. 
