Installed pics and my personal opinion on it will be coming soon....

F.Y.I it is 12" cross-drilled Corvette C-4 rotors, Porterfield R4-S compound pads and Motul DOT 5.1 brake fluid....total cost to me...$690

------------------

[This message has been edited by AkursedX (edited 06-06-2003).]

are the brackets the WCF ones? Or are you using different calipers?

Now get off here and get it done.

------------------
SSFiero@Aol.com Support Mental Health, or I'll Kill Ya!!
Yellow Formula Signature

• 88 Yellow FORMULA-undergoing ZZ3 350 with Accel 1000CFM Street Ram TPI and Gen VI DFI=345HP/390TQ
  
• chevy S10 Parts Fetcher-getting a new engine to haul my fieros(and others)
  
• 87SE V6 auto-L4 to V6 done, Daily Driver
  
• My Shower Cam

cant wait to see it installed gotta let us know how you got it all to fit

Yes, the brackets are from WCF. I will be using stock calipers. I have two brand new calipers on the front and just recently rebuilt the rears.

I did do some upgrades to the calipers as well. I took all of them apart, polished all of the pistons and bores, and did the same thing with all of the sliders, so the calipers are the best they are going to be. I am also painting the iron part of the calipers red so it will have a porsche look to it when it's done..

As for the install, I don't think I'll be able to do it until monday I'm working a ton this weekend, but I'm off Monday.

FYI...............stock calipers are not going to work..........they dont have enough radius curve to accomodate the rotor. And i sure hope you dont mean STOCK FIERO calipers................there is NO way the opening with pads will take a vented rotorthat thick. I took a lot of research but i have a similer setup...........13" crossdrilled & slotted c-4 rotors.

just out of question, purple, are you talking about the 84-87's or are you talking about 88? I thought that the 88's had vented disks all around? All i know is that when i do my brake upgrade im going to buy a complete package like archies big brake setup.

Yes 88 rotors are vented. I seem to believe that WCF has been selling these for a bit which imo, means that stock calipers will work since thats what they are setup for.

quote Vented 12 inch Corvette C-4 rotors will add that stylish look with your 16 or 17 inch rims. This brake upgrade will increase your stopping power by 20% better than the stock 1988 brake system, while still using the Stock 1988 front calipers and hubs.

------------------
Ray - 1988 Aero Coupe 'Mio Dolore' - FieroNews.com
"If life had been meant to be dull, it would have come with a manual" - Anonymous Author

quote Originally posted by PURPLE REIGN: FYI...............stock calipers are not going to work..........they dont have enough radius curve to accomodate the rotor. And i sure hope you dont mean STOCK FIERO calipers................there is NO way the opening with pads will take a vented rotorthat thick. I took a lot of research but i have a similer setup...........13" crossdrilled & slotted c-4 rotors.

http://www.westcoastfiero.com/Brakes/88_12_inch_brake_kit.html

From that link you can clearly see that the caliper fits over the rotor. I think that the C-4 rotors might actually even be just a touch thinner than the '88 rotor.

The 84-87 calipers wont work with this, but the '88 calipers work just fins since they were already made for vented rotors.

Did they sell you just the brackets, or did you get the rotors from them as well?

I doubt they'll help you stop better than the stock rotors, but they will look a lot better behind those wheels ya got

------------------

quote Originally posted by AkursedX: http://www.westcoastfiero.com/Brakes/88_12_inch_brake_kit.html From that link you can clearly see that the caliper fits over the rotor. I think that the C-4 rotors might actually even be just a touch thinner than the '88 rotor. The 84-87 calipers wont work with this, but the '88 calipers work just fins since they were already made for vented rotors.

DUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHH..............I dont think you know who you'r talking to.............I do this for a living as an A.S.E. certified master auto tech running my own shop with 9 bays, I have seen West Coast's absurd kit, where 12" c-4 rotors fit only on 88's. What about the other 95% of 84-87's ? And NO those are not thinner, moninal thickness of an 88 Fiero rotor is .750 and the Vette rotor in the 12" version is .787 -----------my rotor's are the c-4 H.D. wich is 1.102 thick & 13" diameter. I put these kit's together along with the 11.25 kit like Archie's & Grand-Am kits.

P.S. is there any pattern or method to the crossdrilling, or is it just a bunch of various holes punched in the rotor that possibly go through a vent spline ?

[This message has been edited by PURPLE REIGN (edited 06-06-2003).]

Shawn is the MAN.

------------------
" TARGET=_blank rel="nofollow">http://www.fiero.mn.org

86.5 GT, 18" wheels, GA CD brakes, ST brace, Leather, getting 3800 SC
88 Formula 5 speed T-Top stock,
88 GT,Leather, T-Top,S1-3800,

What do yall use for a hub? Right now I have the factory 84-87 hub with the rotor machined off, will that work with the 12 or 13 C4 rotors?

------------------
Recipe for speed:
1 Northstar with 5spd
1 set of 18s
pinch of polyurathane and a smidgen of 11" brakes.

quote Originally posted by PURPLE REIGN: P.S. is there any pattern or method to the crossdrilling, or is it just a bunch of various holes punched in the rotor that possibly go through a vent spline ? [This message has been edited by PURPLE REIGN (edited 06-06-2003).]

Yeah there is a pattern to the cross-drilling and none of the holes go through any of the vent splines. I must say that the cross-drilling looks much better in person than in the picture.

------------------

quote Originally posted by PURPLE REIGN: Well....Actually they will help greatly.......think of physics........take a stock 9.75 rotor with a caliper mounted close to the hub trying to stop a 17" or 18" rim of rotating mass which is spinning at X amount of revolutions per mile, take a 12" rotor which has a caliper mounted further away from the hub which the rotor will spin less revolutions per mile try to stop the same sized wheel. It's like trying to grab a giant spinning wheel, grab it in the center to stop & you'll get your fingers twisted off.......grab it on the outside and you have a good chance.......I tried it when I was a kid [This message has been edited by PURPLE REIGN (edited 06-06-2003).]

Ah, didn't think of it that way. I guess I've never had my fingers almost twisted off, either

quote Originally posted by PURPLE REIGN: Well....Actually they will help greatly.......think of physics........take a stock 9.75 rotor with a caliper mounted close to the hub trying to stop a 17" or 18" rim of rotating mass which is spinning at X amount of revolutions per mile, take a 12" rotor which has a caliper mounted further away from the hub which the rotor will spin less revolutions per mile try to stop the same sized wheel. It's like trying to grab a giant spinning wheel, grab it in the center to stop & you'll get your fingers twisted off.......grab it on the outside and you have a good chance.......I tried it when I was a kid [This message has been edited by PURPLE REIGN (edited 06-06-2003).]

It's not the revolutions per mile, which is dependant on the wheel circumference anyway and has nothing to do with the brakes. It is the radial distance from the middle of the rotor's pad surface to the tire contact patch. The closer that you get the swept area's center of friction to the road surface, the more leverage the brakes have and the greater the stopping power. The disadvantage is that the rotors sweep through the calipers faster and increase the heating of the pads and calipers. The larger rotor on the other hand has greater area to dissipate heat, so with modern pad materials it's all a wash.

JazzMan

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: It's not the revolutions per mile, which is dependant on the wheel circumference anyway and has nothing to do with the brakes. It is the radial distance from the middle of the rotor's pad surface to the tire contact patch. The closer that you get the swept area's center of friction to the road surface, the more leverage the brakes have and the greater the stopping power. The disadvantage is that the rotors sweep through the calipers faster and increase the heating of the pads and calipers. The larger rotor on the other hand has greater area to dissipate heat, so with modern pad materials it's all a wash. JazzMan

O.K. ..........well that is what is was trying to express but just didnt have the technical lingo to explain it. Thanks Jazzman.........you must be a physics teacher or something........

[This message has been edited by PURPLE REIGN (edited 06-06-2003).]

quote Originally posted by 86 FIERO GT: What do yall use for a hub? Right now I have the factory 84-87 hub with the rotor machined off, will that work with the 12 or 13 C4 rotors?

Unfortunatly for the time being that is the best we will get, unless someone wants to cast a larger hub for it, or find another hub that fits the Fiero spindle that is larger that we can machine down, ( good luck with that )

Oh yeah ........so did you still want that 95 Northstar intake ?

[This message has been edited by PURPLE REIGN (edited 06-06-2003).]

quote Originally posted by PURPLE REIGN: COOL !!!!!!!! Mine dont have that many holes, but keep an eye on those after you get some miles on them & tell me if you see hairline cracks between holes.

I'll snap some pictures tomorrow or Sunday that shows a close-up for ya

well i can see purplereign(the styled master machanic) and and his follower lowlifefieroGT(the counterfeiter) have came into the mix to bark their opinion on something a fellow ASE mechanic has accomplished just because their feeble minds couldn't think of something so simple quicker. perhaps mr. Soligny will be ordering a WCF 88 c4 upgrade soon for little shawns shop or maybe he already has. if you guys are gonna talk some sh!t, bring it cuz the only thing i've seen come outta your shop is a high hp car anybody can build. lol, little 13-14 year old kids are building 350's with twice the hp as your L67 and they don't even have their license yet. WCF has done:




and countless others. so why you talking some dump and whats the beef?

AkursedX: sorry too do that on your thread but......its cool you like the brakes, i was there watching the rotors get drilled on the C&C machine when they were being made for Azrael. there is a pattern, its kinda like a diagonal wave its just that the drill went around the rotor a couple time so the original pattern gets lost. since the rotors weren't cast with the crossdrills there will be hairline cracks like he said, usually Chris won't do crossdrills unless the customer asks for them for the hairline crack reason. hope you like them though.

------------------
yeah, so what if i have a sponsorship, deal with it.

3800 Supercharged w/ some mods
sig tuning by: Kameo Kid

[This message has been edited by Sleeper (edited 06-07-2003).]

Purple Reign, I respect your certification as an ASE certified tech, however I do beleive that Chris West' knowledge does exceed your acumulated experience with brakes and how you perceive brake theory.

Chris West has over 30 years experience teaching working and teaching at UCLA. Some of his degrees include that of Nuclear Medicine, Geology, and most importantly Mechanical Engineering. His efforts were also included with the construction of the Electric Tokamak (ET), which is a low curvature, high aspect ratio machine (A \geq 5), designed to study classical ion confinement with reduced electron thermal losses.

During his tenure at UCLA, Chris happened to be driving by a Pontiac delership in Culver City ( 1986 ) where he would soon purchase the car that we all know today.

It was his skills and experiences that led to the development of the parts that we fabricate today and have been seeling for several years.

In conclusion, presenting themselves right now are 2 ways that your argument can be put to rest:

- You can continue learning braking theory after you closed your books many years ago after receiving your ASE certification.

- OR, You can feel free to drop by the shop and compare braking distances between your stock 88 Fiero and one of our stock 88 Fieros with out C4 kit installed.

Now I do understand that this thread does stand a rather large chance of getting pretty ugly, depending on how you read this. For your knowledge, this post was not written with argumentative undertones, but rather those of a person, namely myself, simply trying to inform another person about Chris West and his fortitude that has greatly added to that of the Fiero Community.

------------------
( the above was the thoughts, views, and opinions of a disgruntled Fiero mechanic, and do not express or
imply those of West Coast Fiero, Fieros West, or any other organization - just that of this poor
bastard ) :)

Eric Nelson
Technician,
West Coast Fiero
310-305-4111

quote Originally posted by Sleeper: AkursedX: sorry too do that on your thread but......its cool you like the brakes, i was there watching the rotors get drilled on the C&C machine when they were being made for Azrael. there is a pattern, its kinda like a diagonal wave its just that the drill went around the rotor a couple time so the original pattern gets lost. since the rotors weren't cast with the crossdrills there will be hairline cracks like he said, usually Chris won't do crossdrills unless the customer asks for them for the hairline crack reason. hope you like them though.

I was kinda wary about getting the cross-drilled rotors with the setup because of the cracking issue. Azrael then assured me that the cross-drilling was done really nice. So I bought them and upon my own inspection, I was pleased with the work.

I will definitely keep and eye on the hairline cracks that might form. Hopefully it won't be too bad and if so, at worst I will have to buy new rotors. But I figure that won't happen for a while.

i have an 88GT and have installed WCF's corvette upgrade and porterfield pads and steel lines and like them very much. I talked to chris about drilling and slotting them and he told me that the best thing to do is to "dimple" them, and that it would look like cross-drilled just for that reason "cracking"

this upgrade ROCKS, you can't find a better one for the price and the the brakes feel so much better..

------------------

So, I'm wondering, since the WCF kit uses OEM Vette rotors, can't you use ANY C4 rotor that's the same size? Get a cross-drilled or slotted replacement from Bear, etc... I'm sure there have to be plenty of cross-drilled options, perhaps even with some of them cast in, rather than drilled.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: So, I'm wondering, since the WCF kit uses OEM Vette rotors, can't you use ANY C4 rotor that's the same size? Get a cross-drilled or slotted replacement from Bear, etc... I'm sure there have to be plenty of cross-drilled options, perhaps even with some of them cast in, rather than drilled.

I would think so...I actually priced out some Baer 2-piece cross-drilled rotors....about 1k a set! When these rotors are shot, that's what I'm upgrading to hehe..

quote Originally posted by Formula88: So, I'm wondering, since the WCF kit uses OEM Vette rotors, can't you use ANY C4 rotor that's the same size?

Absolutely

quote Originally posted by AkursedX: I would think so...I actually priced out some Baer 2-piece cross-drilled rotors....about 1k a set! When these rotors are shot, that's what I'm upgrading to hehe..

yeah i got my eye on those down the road when the need arises..

quote Originally posted by Formula88: So, I'm wondering, since the WCF kit uses OEM Vette rotors, can't you use ANY C4 rotor that's the same size? Get a cross-drilled or slotted replacement from Bear, etc... I'm sure there have to be plenty of cross-drilled options, perhaps even with some of them cast in, rather than drilled.

yea i got some sloted and drilled rotors front DBA.
they'll start cracking after continuous hard braking like on tracks or courses, AkursedX's car look more like a show car so he really shouldn't have any problems for awhile.

West Coast Fiero (Eric) you have a PM

dammit, my PM still doesnt function

So I would still use my hub I have machined but just put the C4 rotor and mount a caliper fit it? What do yall do about the back, is there enough room for the rear rotor to fit?

------------------
Recipe for speed:
1 Northstar with 5spd
1 set of 18s
pinch of polyurathane and a smidgen of 11" brakes.

quote Originally posted by 86 FIERO GT: So I would still use my hub I have machined but just put the C4 rotor and mount a caliper fit it? What do yall do about the back, is there enough room for the rear rotor to fit?

pic shows C4's all the way around, and you must have atleast a 17" rim

you don't do anything to your hub with the WCF kit.. you get hub centering rings to put inside the too large center of the C4 rotor, WCF drills the 5x100m bolt pattern into the C4 rotor and you get mounting brakets that move the caliber farther away from the axel and in just slightly that bolt to where the caliber's stock location was.. I would also advise getting some stainless steel lines too.

My mounts are mine.. You want to compare them, then buy a set. I'm putting 13" Vette brakes on my 86 GT. Ya, I'm going to buy 12" brakes from WCF.. why would I do that when we can have 13". Tell you do anything on your own SHUT YOUR MOUTH. My 3800 swap is being done by me not WCF.. Unlike yours. Shawn's car will go faster then any of WCF's Fiero's and any other Fiero out there.

[This message has been edited by lowfierogt (edited 06-08-2003).]

(in the background, PFF members are bickering like school children......)

I wasn't going to get into this, but I think I need to, Since rumors need to be stopped.

The Story Goes.....
I have the Grand Am brakes on my car and wanted to upgrade to get my E-brake back. After considering 11.25" rotors, I decided to go bigger. After finding that Corvette used a 13" rotor on ZR-1's and Grand Sports and studying dementions for hours and hours, I found that these rotors would work great. After more extensive reasearch, I found the Camaro & Cadillac calipers I had planned on using would not work with this big of rotor with out hitting the slider bolts.

I found new calipers off of a newer GM car that are a two piston aluminum caliper made for a 12" rotor that will also work great on the 13" rotors. I was also difficult to find a caliper that would work on these HD GM rotors because they are 1.1" thick!!

I now have bought 13" cross-drilled, slotted rotors with directional vanes (right and left rotors!!) I have purchased 4 front calipers and decided to use Wilwood mechanical spot calipers for e-brakes. Most of the front engine cars have very wimpy rear calipers for obvious weight differance reasons. Plus having 4 HUGE matching calipers with 13" rotors is always a cosmetic benefit behind my 19" wheels!!!

Shawn,(PURPLE REIGN), a business owner and master mind mechanic, and I have an ungodly amount of time with our heads in brake books, hanging out at brake parts warehouses, and trial and error enough to make you sick. Fortunately He and I have almost finished machining very cool, beefy caliper mounting brackets. We will have this kit on both of our cars within the next few weeks.

I have not purchased anything from WCF EVER, and do not have an opinion on them either way. If anyone wants to assume that Shawn and I are copying them, call them personally and ask.

As far as lowfierogt, yes he purchased a set of mounts from WCF, yes he showed them to me, yes he told me he wasn't happy with the design, and saw various ways he wanted to change and improve on designing mounts. I don't see that as being a problem. Everyone has their own opinion on quality. I have done modifications on LOTS of fiero parts I bought because I was not happy with the originals, and yes I would share that with any fellow fiero owner.

As far a PURPLE REIGN, he is a great guy that is willing to put in countless hours in your car for $.50 and a jawbreaker. He is a little new to posting on the forum and forgets that typing doesn't show emotion. His posts earlier seem a little harsh and bragging, but I GUARANTEE this is not the case. He is only trying to prevent someone from having to do the reasearch for countless hours that we have already done. And maybe if this works awsome we will reproduce the kits. That's only if I don't get accused of copying anyone.

Obviously Sleeper and lowfierogt have some gay beef(mentioned earlier), but what are you doing throwing Shawn in there for? No ones perfect, but you better watch who you pick on. He knows an awful lot about these cars. I think your being a little judgemental for not knowing him.

P.S. I will have pics very soon, this polishing is taking forever!!!

MOBILE

Edited for my lack of spelling and grammer...

------------------

Member MN Fieros Forever 1986 GT. Self Installed SC3800/getrag. 10 years in Car Audio and Car Electronics Experiance. GOT 19"s??

[This message has been edited by MOBILE (edited 06-08-2003).]

Mobile, I personally thank you for contributing to this thread in a positive manor - fearing that this thread would get very ugly, you have added some great insight. I personally would like to meet this Shaun after the way you described him, sounds like we all would have a few things in common. Best of luck with the brake mod, sounds interesting.

lowfierogt - calm down, it's only a forum