Since wiring comes easy to me and seems to be one of the things everyone is looking for when it comes to engine swaps for the fiero; I was thinking of starting a small company in which I would make custom, plug-and-play wiring harnesses.

These harnesses would consist of OEM grade wiring, loom, connectors, and terminals. I am actually planning on ordering complete GM metripak and weatherpak kits so these harnesses would be premium quality.

If I do this, I would like to offer a harness in which all the customer would have to do is to unplug and remove their stock V6 or 4cyl fiero engine harness and plug this unit in place with little or no splicing neccessary. I am thinking of starting out with offering harnesses for the following powertrain platforms for the fiero:

-3800 vin C 440t4 or manual trans
-3800 vin L 4T60 or manual trans
-3800 series I SC 4T60-E or manual trans
-3800 series II 4T60-E or manual trans using the 95 bonneville OBDI PCM
-3800 series II SC 4T60-E or manual trans using the 95 bonneville OBDI PCM
-3.4L TDC auto or manual trans using the 16149396 PCM

If the buisness takes off, I later plan to offer harnesses for the following powertrain platforms:

2.2 MFI, 2.3 Quad 4, 2.4 Twin Cam, 2.8 MFI, 3.1 MFI, 3100, 3300, 3400, 4.3 TBI, CFI, Vortec, 5.0/5.7L TBI and TPI, LT1, LS1, Aurora 4.0, Caddy 4.9, Northstar 4.6, and make other custom applications available.

I am doing some research right now as to how much all of the materials are going to cost me and how much time it will take to make one of these harnesses. I am also doing some pricing studies to determine how much "profit" I can make without screwing people. I know that painless charges anywhere from $200-$500 for a GM EFI harness but that does not include wire loom from what I can tell.

I have a few questions for the board. First, who all would be interested in buying a plug-and-play harness?? Next question is would you be willing to pay around $400-500 for one? The actual cost may be less or more depending on how much I have in materials and time but I think this is a good rough estimate. Any other suggestions? thanks in advance.

------------------
Fiero-related Conversions Performed:

1985 SE 3800 Series 1 SC 4T60-E
1987 Coupe 3800 Series II Turbocharged 4T60-E
1987 SE 3.4 TDC 5-speed
1984 Coupe SBC V8 non-OD to 4T60 OD swap, electric power steering install
1985 SE 3800 Series II Supercharged 4T60-E

http://dtcc.cz28.com

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 06-09-2003).]

I think that you should get started on my swap first

Im buying an engine ECM and wiring harness as we speak, and i have a transmission lined up it looks like anyhow, in a month or so i'll be ready to roll.

HMM.. Maybe you could do the wiring harness and i'll do the rest?

shoot me a pm..

------------------
REMEMBER: If you cant win the race you loose the argument!!

www.geocities.com/j_depies

if you can proove your products are good, and worry/trouble free, and keep them reasonably priced( a good amount below the competition) there will be no reason you cant sell the hell out of them!!

as you know there are alot of people doing the SC3800 swaps,(the same goes for all the other swaps too) think of how many more people would do them if all they had to do was bolt in the motor, and plug in all the connectors and be DONE!!!, and eliminate the hastle of worring about wiring stuff up right thenmselvs or over paying someone elst to do it for them i say if you keep it reasonably priced now, in the long run youll come out ahead

I think its a Great Idea,& I wish you the best of luck

------------------
Rich
white '86 se: , 2" drop, coil overs, KYB's. CRX intake, ported manifolds

Gold '86se: ,350 bored .030 over,World Products s/r Torquers, ported, Manley valves, edelbrock 750cfm, carb sanderson cc90's,4:10,Spec stage 3copper puck clutch , adj.Koni's, Eibach's,polly. and lots more!!

'92 BMW 325i : borla exhaust, ST brace, cold air intake

another idea is that you could ahve thorottle cables and hoses that fit the specific engine for the Fiero made up or you could maybe find them and sell them.

I wouldnt waste time with mounts, there are plent of companies out there that have them, and besides everyone has their own idea of how a mount should be made/mounted, let it be up to them.

you both raise some interesting points. as far as cables and hoses go that is something that I am not yet ready to get into at this point. when it comes to radiator hoses, i usually just take some measurements of what I think I need and then walk behind the counter at autozone and look over their stuff to see if there is anything close. sometimes that includes buying a hose and cutting down to fit. when it comes to throttle cables I have always used the stock cable. however, as my signature suggests, i have not done any V8 fiero swaps so I have yet to experience what those involve. my advice to anyone seeking to modify their throttle cable is to hit a bicycle store and look at their assortment of cable ends that can be crimped onto your cable to interface with whatever TB hookup you are working with.

perhaps in the future I will come to a determination on whether or not to go beyond the wiring harness aspect of engine swaps for retail sale.

my question to all of you is what do you think is a fair price? is there anyone else making a similar harness for the fiero and what are they charging? obviously I want to come in below them as far as MSRP but I don't want to short change myself either.

I might be interested in one for a sc3800 with the getrag. I'm not sure what I would be willing to pay. I'm a DIY type of person, but I dread spending 10 hours wiring the engine, although, I would do it.

when would you expect to start having harness's? I think the sc3800 and 3400dohc motors would sell good because the motors are fairly cheap.
I dont think Small block chevy FI harness's would do well, just because they're already so many aftermarket harness's available for cheap.

------------------
SSFiero@Aol.com Support Mental Health, or I'll Kill Ya!!
Yellow Formula Signature

• 88 Yellow FORMULA-undergoing ZZ3 350 with Accel 1000CFM Street Ram TPI and Gen VI DFI=345HP/390TQ
  
• chevy S10 Parts Fetcher-getting a new engine to haul my fieros(and others)
  
• 87SE V6 auto-L4 to V6 done, Daily Driver
  
• My Shower Cam

LS1, and LT1 harnesses would definately be good... and definately Northstar... woowheee

------------------
PONTIAC FIERO OUTLAW

-JESSE JAMES-

1984 Pontiac Fiero SE
Project Weekend Warrior has started...
(No engine for right now... What will I get next that I hope will be actually *good*?)

Well of course I have spoke to you before on this issue and I would definietly buy a harness for a 3800sc-4-speed auto. If I can get a harness, there would be no doubt that I would go 3800sc

------------------

Hell, I'd buy a how-to booklet with all the appropriate wire color codes and instructions for $100US...

i also would be interested in a harness for a 3800SC 4 speed(manual)
with this harness would i be able to still go either OBD I or OBD II???

I think that the thought of having to do the wiring intimidates the majority of us who are considering engine swaps. Being able to purchase a dependable and proven harness for a swap would be great! I also think that a price range of $400 to $500 USD is probably fair.

Sour

the cost I gave is just a shot in the dark thus far as I am still doing research into how much materials and manpower is going to run me.

if I make a harness for the 3800 II SC / NA engines I will sell two versions in which you have your choice of using the OBDI PCM or the OBD II PCM. the same will probably hold true for other engines as well.

thanks darth, so for the 3800SC set up would it include the PCM or not?
am i right to assume that it is strictly the harness that you plug into what ever PCM your engine comes with (OBDI or OBDII)
good thing your looking into doing this, because im totally in the dark.

quote Originally posted by KissMySSFiero: I'm a DIY type of person, but I dread spending 10 hours wiring the engine, although, I would do it.

I agree....I love doing things myself, but the wiring of a 3800SC swap scares the crap out of me...if I could purchase a plug & play harness for under $500 I'd probably be all over it and I'd definately be more motivated to get my swap underway.

------------------
Nick www.naskie18.com AIM: Naskie182010

If the harness is plug-n-play and of the same or better quality than a stock GM, I would think that you would have a decent market for them. Especially with the wide range of swaps available in the Fiero. I would make a few prototype ones and verify how they work. I'm also sure places that do engine swaps would be interested too. It would save time instead of modifying what is already there. You could probably work out a deal where they send the original harness' to you as a core.

If your interested, I could send you a schematic of my harness once I'm done modifying it. It would be a universal harness for those that would be using a carb'd engine. It wouldn't matter if it was a 4, 6, or 8 cyl engine. The only difference would be if the original car was an 84 or an 85-88.

------------------

Happiness isn't around the corner...
Happiness IS the corner.

Go for it!!! I think that if you did this, a lot more engine swaps in Fieros would happen. Wiring the engine is a major problem for a lot of us, and for many...decides whether or not we'll do the swap at all.

I also know there would be a large market in streetrods as well. Many would like to install engines like the LS1/LT1 SBCs in all kinds of early cars and trucks. But then there is the engine wiring to contend with.

With the harness being easy for you, can you do up one for a 96 3.4 DOHC motor going into a 88 coupe. I have the harness for the 96 including the PCM and the harness off the 88 coupe including the ECM. I also bought a 9396 ECM off a 92 3.4 because i was told you cant do the 96 harness because of the OBD II. What can you do with those parts, and what would you charge, also, what kind of time frame to do it. THanks

Rob

Id buy a 2.8 to a 4.9 engine swap~

350-500 sounds like a good price, if you make one up soon enough for the sc3800 to a getrag i'd buy it from ya in no time! OBD1 of course..

I just moved so it is going to be a short while before I can even think about doing this.

As far as will a PCM be included with the harness the answer is no. It is hard enough to try to find everything I am going to need to make a harness, in fact I think I am going to have to put a core charge on the stock Fiero harness so I can get some plastic housings for some of the connectors back to reuse because I think some of that stuff is discontinued.

Eh darth..yeah i would buy some from u..mech stuff i am not afraid of it the elect stuff that blows my mind...even at 500$,,,i still think it is better then paying 750 to 1000..

honestly. bad idea.. Unless you don't plan on this being your #1 financial support plan.. If you plan on this as a hobby to help people, thumbs up! But don't plan on feeding a family by catering to 100 people..

I was going to pay A.C.E. $800 for a 3.5 wire harness but I had already done about 80% of it and they may have charged more to find out what I had done to it before they could do there stuff. So I think I will just do all I can to it my self now. They told me the harness would be plug and play and I think this type of harness would be worth more than that to me. So if you had a 3.5 plug and play for only $600, I would be the one all the way to the bank to get a deal like that.
One more thing to think about is that there are so many different ways to do a harness. I dont want the ECM in the cab, I want the two maxi fuse/relay centers in the trunk, the battery in front with a jumper in the stock battery local, no fusable links(all maxi fuses) and do it all in fits like a glove quality. I want to much, and others may also want, ask or expect some custom stuff. Also you will have to do alot of research into the differencs between all the engine tranny combos. The Fiero auto and stick harness are different too, so you will have to deal with all the different Fiero harness too.
I say go for it and do it for "fun" and to help others, I think JonnyK is right about makeing money on it. But I hope that we are wrong and you do verry well with it.
How long will it take to make one harness? How much is the over head? How much is the wire and conectors going to cost? Add it all up and then ask how much is you time (labor) worth? If you ask me it adds up very fast and that is why I would be happy to ONLY pay $800 for a harness done the way I want it done.

Have fun

I was thinking the same thing but for people in Canada. (it's hard to bring stuff over the border nowa days. )

I will only do the obd1 harness for the 3800sc. Once I have the lengths and connectors all figured out. my approx price would be $150 to $200 CAD. once you have it all figured out, it's so easy to cut all the wires the right lenth, route them and solder the connectors.

Maybe we can work together somehow?

Cheers!
Eric

just an idea.... make the harness a kit. meaning - provide all the necessary plugs, enough wire to route differnt ways, and full detailed info on that specific swap.

there may be too many man hours in making a complete harness to be profitable. if someone is doing their own swap, chances are that they can make their own harness provided they have good detailed info and the proper componates. that would leave you much more time to market and research more swap wiring data. take archies business - he markets his products as a kit, yet he still does the turnkey work for those who can afford it. but yet he must maintains a staff, full shop, ect. unless you have the "big" bucks to support a new business in this weak economy:
maybe try collecting all your data for all the popular swaps and materials needed. try that for a while and see what the market responces are. then maybe try offering your custom made harness's.

if you cant really get paid what you worth it not worth doing

just some thoughts-
good luck on your endevors!!!