The good news is that I always keep a fire extinguisher in my cars (thanks Firefox for the suggestion/reminder to double-check the type... it was the right kind)
The bad news is that I had to use it tonight.
I ran a couple of errands in the GT and was noticing some low voltage readings & odd alternator behavior (although everything appeared to return to normal just before I returned home). I parked the car as usual and immediately noticed a burning smell, followed by smoke rising from the engine compartment. I popped the decklid to see smoke billowing from the alternator (yes, the same one that I just had installed on my trip to Carlisle recently), followed by small flames. I immediately had my wife grab the extinguisher from the car and doused it. It took a couple of trys to get the right angle into the back of the alt to get everything put out, but it certianly did the job!
Now it's back to swapping out another alternator (oddly enough I happen to have a new back up one in the garage). And checking to see what wiring was damaged (and try to diagnose what happened that caused this). Ugh.
Unfortunately, this may slow down my bodywork progress for the 20th show. Wish me luck (and help me try to stay in a good mood)!
Could have been a couple things. Berings or more likley the rectifiers.
Yeah... that's what I'm guessing as well. It's been having some unexpected belt "squeeling" on startup the past week, and hadn't had any signs of it previously (even in cooler and damper weather).
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11:57 PM
Jul 2nd, 2003
Smoooooth GT Member
Posts: 8823 From: Lake Palestine, Texas Registered: Jun 2001
Man, that's just WAY too many alternators to be a coincidence. Have you cleaned all of your connections? Have you tried a different battery? Sorry, I suppose I'm not up to date on the whole saga.
Glad everything is ok, that's a hairy experience, I'm sure!
Bryce 88 GT
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01:56 AM
Soaper Member
Posts: 1417 From: Nashville, TN Registered: Jun 2002
Thanks to everyone for voicing their concerns & their support - that's why I hang out here!
As for the problem itself... this is the history: I started this summer with a 4-5 year old (rebuilt) alternator in the car. It died in May, taking the 4 year old battery with it (it was about due). So I installed a new battery and put in a NAPA "Rebuilt" alternator (this is the one that died on the way to Carlisle... it seemed like it probably just fried the voltage regulator). The one the shop in Indiana installed was brand-new with a lifetime warranty (going to take 'em up on that one). Unfortunately they installed it poorly (leaving the main power lead exposed), and it managed to short out - melting off half the stud for the connection (on my way home from Carlisle). I just re-attached the connection and everything has been fine since. Now, just last week I started noticing some belt-squeel on startup (which is unusual especially considering how long ago the alt was installed). Then yesterday I noticed that it wasn't putting out full power (and yet the belt hadn't squealed that time). Part way home the belt squeeled for a few seconds and then the voltage came back up all the way. It was only minutes after that when I parked it and it caught fire.
...so that's the story! I haven't yet done anything with it (well, I did rinse the powder off the engine/car). But I'm going to go through and clean & check all the connections before I throw the spare in!
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09:43 AM
Indy-2M4 Member
Posts: 1024 From: Kettering, OH USA Registered: Nov 2001
Sounds like the alternator was damaged from the main power lead shorting out and it was only a matter of time before it failed completely. I'm so glad you had that extinguisher handy!
I put in a NAPA rebuilt alternator in my 88 Formula, and 1 year later, BOOM - it exploded. Really. Explosion. Sounded like a gunshot going off. When I got the car stopped and noticed the belt was fine, I tried to start it up. The alternator sounded like a rock tumber. The windings literally exploded apart. So, I used their lifetime warranty and so far (knock on wood) I haven't had any more problems other than the occasional belt squeal.
Oh, and I'm going to go get a fire extinguisher today. It's just not worth the risk not to have one. Halon, I think. Chemicals are messy.
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11:01 AM
Paul Prince Member
Posts: 2935 From: Kansas City, MO Registered: Dec 2002
Halon fire extinguishers are not available anymore......haven't been for quite a few years. ABC rated dry chemical is the best to have for all around use. Halon in the smaller sizes (if you can find one) doesn't have enough in it to have a class A rating, which is your wood, paper, cloth, rubber, etc....
ABC dry chemical is the way to go.
Mark
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11:56 AM
pred1tor83 Member
Posts: 1872 From: Washington DC Registered: Dec 2000
Everyone needs a fire extinguisher. I highly recommend buying a fire extinguisher from a fire extinguisher service company. Open up your yellow pages, look under fire extinguishers, and go buy a GOOD one. I do not recommend the KIDDE brand because most of their extinguishers have plastic valve assemblies, and these tend to leak over time. KIDDE does make a better quality line of fire extinguisher called the Pro-Line, and these are ok. You are looking for a unit that has a metal valve/handle assembly....not plastic!
Also, make sure that the unit is ABC rated...not BC like a lot of car units are. If you buy a good one, you can get it recharged for less than the cost of a new one.
Mark Interstate Fire Protection Milwaukee, Wisconsin
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02:24 PM
Steve Normington Member
Posts: 7663 From: Mesa, AZ, USA Registered: Apr 2001
I popped the decklid to see smoke billowing from the alternator (yes, the same one that I just had installed on my trip to Carlisle recently), followed by small flames.
Be very careful doing this. You could have a fire that is smouldering due to lack of oxygen and a build up of smoke. By opening the hood, you give it the oxygen it needs and it could suddenly flare up in your face.
Be very careful doing this. You could have a fire that is smouldering due to lack of oxygen and a build up of smoke. By opening the hood, you give it the oxygen it needs and it could suddenly flare up in your face.
Very true... although it wasn't smoking profusely when I first got out of the car (and due to the other signs, I was quite certian it was the alt before I even looked). I don't even think it actually started flaming until shortly after I got it open.
..and I've seen Backdraft
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03:27 PM
PFF
System Bot
Jul 3rd, 2003
AndyLPhoto Member
Posts: 2420 From: Skandia, MI, USA Registered: Nov 2001
Everyone needs a fire extinguisher. I highly recommend buying a fire extinguisher from a fire extinguisher service company.
Mark Interstate Fire Protection Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Mark,
I was just thinking I should get a fire extinguisher for my second vehicle. Will you make it to the 20th, and will you have fire extinguishers available like at the Dells? I didn't make it there.
Otherwise, we have an Interstate location here in Marquette. Just figured if you'd be there, I'd give you the business.
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10:06 AM
AndyLPhoto Member
Posts: 2420 From: Skandia, MI, USA Registered: Nov 2001
oops...went into the post screen and forgot what the thread was about! Sorry to hear about the fire, but glad it wasn't more serious! You don't seem to be having great success with alternators.
Looking forward to meeting you and seeing your car in Pontiac!
Andy
[This message has been edited by AndyLPhoto (edited 07-03-2003).]
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10:08 AM
Firefox Member
Posts: 4307 From: New Berlin, Wisconsin Registered: Feb 2003
I will not be at the 20th. I am still Fieroless, but I'm expecting that this minor problem will be cured by the end of the month. If you need a fire extinguisher, the Marquette location can certainly take care of you. If you stop in, tell them that you are purchasing a fire extinguisher through the employee purchase program we have, and tell them that I sent you. They are good guys up there.
Mark Sobolewski Interstate Fire Protection Milwaukee, Wisconsin
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01:06 PM
Jul 4th, 2003
AndyLPhoto Member
Posts: 2420 From: Skandia, MI, USA Registered: Nov 2001
hay min glad to see your ok . is the bracket that holds the alt. holding it 100% strait . if the alt. is crooked it will have too much pressure on one side than the other and kill the bearings
Thursday night, my friend Matt & I finally had the time to pull the burnt alternator. We had to actually use my dremel with a cutoff wheel to cut the main power stud from the back of the unit (seeing as how the plastic grommet that normally held it in place had completely burnt up). Thankfully it didn't damage any of the wiring in the area (although I did have to clean some additional dry-chemical stuff from the area).
This is all that was left of the rubber boot that used to cover the power lead/connection. The local parts store doesn't carry or sell replacement boots, so I happened upon a heavy PCV Valve rubber elbow that worked perfectly!
And this is how a brand-new lifetime-warranty'd alternator looks after it fails miserably! I also found the receipt from the place in Indiana where it was installed... gotta call them today.
And this is "Manny" the Mammoth Moth (or so we named him) who came and watched us finish working on the car. He was huge (note the screwdriver handle for scale), extremely friendly, and very colorful!
We installed my "spare" alternator - and I've driven the car a few times since, and everything seems to be fine again (but I will definitely be keeping a close eye on it).
Thanks again to everyone for your support & suggestions!
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11:32 AM
rm87fierogt Member
Posts: 32 From: Vancouver BC Canada Registered: May 2003
I found the receipt and placed a call to the shop that did the install in LaPorte, Indiana. After realizing that I wasn't kidding about having had the alt catch fire (didn't take too much convincing) they talked to the shop manager about it.
Shortly thereafter they called me back and wanted to know if there were any AutoZones in my area (they are not common, but around). So I gave them the info for the one nearest me. Again, the called me back right away and let me know that the AutoZone had been informed of what had happened, and they had a replacement alt waiting for me at the desk.
I stopped by later in the day - swapped alts and some paperwork... and I've now got a "spare" again! I very much appreciated the effort that the shop made to help me get everything worked out so quickly!
...and one more pic of "Manny" so you can see his cool pattern!
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12:37 PM
PFF
System Bot
Jul 12th, 2003
Firefox Member
Posts: 4307 From: New Berlin, Wisconsin Registered: Feb 2003
Same thing happened on my pace car, just not so much burning. The stud coming out of the alternator loosened up alittle and got so hot the wire eventually melted to ground. Scary thing to have happen, its that burning wire smell that gets my adrenaline pumping.
------------------ 84 Indy fiero Quad 4 HO (almost done!!) 85 2m? Getting parted out soon Silver 88 GT, Newest addiction.
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01:04 AM
GTFiero1 Member
Posts: 6508 From: Camden County NJ Registered: Sep 2001
I think I bought mine at either Home Depot, or maybe even Wal Mart (it was quite awhile ago).
Anyway, you'll want to get one that is marked "ABC Dry Chemical" (as Mark/FireFox mentioned above) - mine happened to be "Kiddie" brand.
Might I suggest a bag of marchmellows incase its one you cant extunguish just another Emergancy Supply to carry. I know its not a laughing matter as my 86 cought on fire once lucky I found the problem and a fix for it. The Spark plug wires were running around the valve cover with several of the retainer clips were broke and they were laying on the exaust manifold. to make it worse the valve cover was leaking oil onto the wires and manifold adding fuel to the chances of fire. I fixed this with new wires cause 3 of them were burnt and I ran the wires over the top of the valve cover instead of around it so they were nolonger laying on the manifold. before I could put in a new valve cover Gasket I blew the engine so its off to putting in a new engine instead
------------------ Don Pottorff Red 88 Fiero 2M4 Silver 86 Fiero 2M4
[This message has been edited by 88Fiero2M4 (edited 07-14-2003).]
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01:14 PM
Firefox Member
Posts: 4307 From: New Berlin, Wisconsin Registered: Feb 2003
. J/K. Glad to hear you got to it in time and hope the fix won't be too bad.
thats one big moth.
