I was recently directed to the gm60*V6 website by a friend where a guy dynoed his turbocharged/intercolled 3.4L P/R 60* V6 and achieved 336 HP and 397 ft lbs of torque ( rear wheel figures)on the dyno. This is amazing. Considering the drivetrain losses, this guy should be pushing over 400 HP at the flywheel and so far it has stayed together. If you want to find out how this 3.4L P/R engine was built, details and a video on the dyno test is at: http://www.60degreev6.com/ These are also details on a 3.4L DOHC Turbocharged engine on this site as well. With the power that these V6 guys are pushing it gives fuel to the argument that cubes aren't always the answer. I've maintained this position for years but my opinion seems to be disputed by the SBC guys who firmly believe that the V8 is king.
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12:21 PM
PFF
System Bot
Kento Member
Posts: 4218 From: Beautifull Winston Salem NC Registered: Jun 2003
Dennis, as you know I have been wanting to Turbo a V6 for many years but I believe that with my luck the K.I.S.S. principle is best for me. SBC with Carb and HEI is simple! Turbo V6 is not. ARGH!!! At a Crossroads and don't know which way to go!!!!!!! Turbo to the LEFT! SBC to the RIGHT!!! Which Way to go??????
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12:26 PM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
video says stock internals but thats obviously incorrect. It may have a stock bottom end, but the pistons would definatly have to be upgraded and as you can tell by the sound (which sounds fricken awsome) is definatley has a different cam. Im not puttin this off or anything but how come they didnt show the dyno screen in the video?
------------------ --Adam-- 1987 Blue GT 5-speed IM AOL: FieroGT5speed
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02:23 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
Dennis, as you know I have been wanting to Turbo a V6 for many years but I believe that with my luck the K.I.S.S. principle is best for me. SBC with Carb and HEI is simple! Turbo V6 is not. ARGH!!! At a Crossroads and don't know which way to go!!!!!!! Turbo to the LEFT! SBC to the RIGHT!!! Which Way to go??????
I love the SBC and have always considered putting one in my Fiero. I appreciate the work and expense that is required to install one in a Fiero and the install really look nice. I've always been a fan of the big powerful gas guzzling V8's and still own a two V8 Cars. However, when I see what the GM60* V6 crowd is doing, and what has been dome with small high technology engines during the last decade, I arrive at the conclusion that I could make enough power in my Fiero while at the same time not adding weight with a turbocharged V6. THat's just this mans opinion. No flame on the V8 SBC guys intended.
video says stock internals but thats obviously incorrect. It may have a stock bottom end, but the pistons would definatly have to be upgraded and as you can tell by the sound (which sounds fricken awsome) is definatley has a different cam. Im not puttin this off or anything but how come they didnt show the dyno screen in the video?
I agree with everything that you've said. That turbocharged 3.4L V6 most definitely is using forged pistons and a radical cam. The turbo is also pushing like 15 psi of intercooled boost I would also suspect that the block or head is O ringed. I do not dispute the dyno numbers. The combo that the guy is using is a radical one but we can ask him if he would share the info with us. There is some build info on the site that may yield some clues.
EDIT: I just talked to Tiago on AIM and he said it is all stock, Cam, Heads (ported but not needed for the Turbo), and computer, running 10 psi of boost. He aslo said it idles at 900 with no fluctuations.
I forgot to ask about pistons and Compression Ratio. But he is planning on offering a kit in the next month or so for about $3500.
His AIM ID is: Tiago 94fb
Hope this helps out. ------------------
1988 Fiero Formula T-Top # 1008 of 1252 (5 Spd White /Gray) Click here to go to my Web site Please use the Rating system accordingly
[This message has been edited by Spiff (edited 07-04-2003).]
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01:35 AM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
The more I look at the guys website, the more I think he's trying to hide something. I think he did more work to the short block than he states. Per his website he says the short block is a stock 1995 3.4L from a Camaro. Sorry, I don't care how much you port the cast heads or modify the intake to accept an LT1 throttle body, The small camshaft that is in the stock engine is going to restrict the flow. If his website is true then Dennis needs to take out his custom camshaft and put the stock one in for more power. Some other "interesting" things I found on his website: Under the "Heads" mod, He states he swapped heads and that woke up the upper RPM range. The pics show stock cast heads. What did he swap to? Did he use the dirty stock looking heads that are laying on the grass? Did he put on a set of aluminum heads then with the reduced compression ration, cranked up the boost? The 3.4L already has the big valved cast heads, The only other cast heads are the smaller valve'd ones. Most of the pics look like they are the dis-assembly of the blown original engine. In the heads mod section none of the pistons are near the top of the cylinder. This is impossible. Anyone who has had a 60* V-6 apart will tell you it can't happen. Unless it is the engine he blew with the nitrous
Do I believe he made the dyno numbers with a turbo 3.4L? Yes. But not with the engine or parts he shows on his website.
Do I believe he told everyone what he did to the new engine? No.
I think he had the engine professionally built at a lot of $$$. From all the pics, He makes it appear he just slapped a bunch of parts together in a parking lot to get this much power. As many here have learned, getting power out of a 60* V-6 takes a little more than just slapping things together.
So in the end, Either the dyno was faked or he is BS'ing what he really did to the engine.
------------------ Happiness isn't around the corner... Happiness IS the corner.
[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 07-04-2003).]
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09:58 AM
Dennis LaGrua Member
Posts: 15536 From: Hillsborough, NJ U.S.A. Registered: May 2000
The more I look at the guys website, the more I think he's trying to hide something. I think he did more work to the short block than he states. Per his website he says the short block is a stock 1995 3.4L from a Camaro. Sorry, I don't care how much you port the cast heads or modify the intake to accept an LT1 throttle body, The small camshaft that is in the stock engine is going to restrict the flow. If his website is true then Dennis needs to take out his custom camshaft and put the stock one in for more power. Some other "interesting" things I found on his website: Under the "Heads" mod, He states he swapped heads and that woke up the upper RPM range. The pics show stock cast heads. What did he swap to? Did he use the dirty stock looking heads that are laying on the grass? Did he put on a set of aluminum heads then with the reduced compression ration, cranked up the boost? The 3.4L already has the big valved cast heads, The only other cast heads are the smaller valve'd ones. Most of the pics look like they are the dis-assembly of the blown original engine. In the heads mod section none of the pistons are near the top of the cylinder. This is impossible. Anyone who has had a 60* V-6 apart will tell you it can't happen. Unless it is the engine he blew with the nitrous
Do I believe he made the dyno numbers with a turbo 3.4L? Yes. But not with the engine or parts he shows on his website.
Do I believe he told everyone what he did to the new engine? No.
I think he had the engine professionally built at a lot of $$$. From all the pics, He makes it appear he just slapped a bunch of parts together in a parking lot to get this much power. As many here have learned, getting power out of a 60* V-6 takes a little more than just slapping things together.
So in the end, Either the dyno was faked or he is BS'ing what he really did to the engine.
I would tend to agree with Orief. After viewing the dyno video, that 3.4L P/R engine doesn't sound stock. One could argue that you can make more noise with a straight through exhaust, but the sound that this engine puts out seems to indicate modifications other than just the turbo. The guy did say that he originally used nitrous (with disasterous results) and got away from it. The wrecked engine shown seems to show nitrous damage as per Oriefs theory. Perhaps this dyno test will be used as part of an ad campaign for a new Camaro turbo kit "just bolt on a turbo and make 400HP" Can I say conclusively that this engine is not stock-No. Do I suspect that it is modified?-Yes. Perhaps we can find someone who lives in his area to stop by and take a look.
I run 9 psi boost on a MODIFIED 3.4L- cam , porting, precision balancing, MSD Ign, custom exhaust, forged racing pistons, custom turbo cam, chip etc etc etc. The GT is fast for sure but I doubt that my engine is putting out the power that this guy claims to be getting from his 3.4L. Either I'm doing something wrong or this guy knows something that we don't. I'm requsting the dyno sheets and we'll see what happens. If this guy has really achieved this power level, I'm sure that he would be happy to show the data. Wouldn't you??
It also seems as though he has one of those 'n2coolers' like NX offers.
Looks like nitrous(or c02, etc) was sprayed onto the intercooler to make it much much colder. This alone would add a few extra ponies. Not enough to make up what he is saying though.
------------------ --1986 SE V6, Wild Custom Notchback --1984 SE Modified Notchback
The more I look at the guys website, the more I think he's trying to hide something. I think he did more work to the short block than he states. Per his website he says the short block is a stock 1995 3.4L from a Camaro. Sorry, I don't care how much you port the cast heads or modify the intake to accept an LT1 throttle body, The small camshaft that is in the stock engine is going to restrict the flow. If his website is true then Dennis needs to take out his custom camshaft and put the stock one in for more power. Some other "interesting" things I found on his website: Under the "Heads" mod, He states he swapped heads and that woke up the upper RPM range. The pics show stock cast heads. What did he swap to? Did he use the dirty stock looking heads that are laying on the grass? Did he put on a set of aluminum heads then with the reduced compression ration, cranked up the boost? The 3.4L already has the big valved cast heads, The only other cast heads are the smaller valve'd ones. Most of the pics look like they are the dis-assembly of the blown original engine. In the heads mod section none of the pistons are near the top of the cylinder. This is impossible. Anyone who has had a 60* V-6 apart will tell you it can't happen. Unless it is the engine he blew with the nitrous
Do I believe he made the dyno numbers with a turbo 3.4L? Yes. But not with the engine or parts he shows on his website.
Do I believe he told everyone what he did to the new engine? No.
I think he had the engine professionally built at a lot of $$$. From all the pics, He makes it appear he just slapped a bunch of parts together in a parking lot to get this much power. As many here have learned, getting power out of a 60* V-6 takes a little more than just slapping things together.
So in the end, Either the dyno was faked or he is BS'ing what he really did to the engine.
you really are a piece of work..This guy shared his build on a forum.. and all you can do is try to find fault to discount his accomplishments.. Evidently if one puts a carb on a 2.8 he thinks that he has the rights to talk S... about anybody else.. ..I glanced at the different sites and notice these points.. MIT dyno day.. tubed hedders ..big throttle body ..gold roller rockers ( what ratio?) ..he definitely stated that the BOTTOM END was stock. ..picture of an aftermarket rod.. picture of some pistons Big intercooler. nothing about the boost level except to state that when he ran unde 8psi his results were close to what Dennis stated his were, and he ran into trouble.. Give the guy a chance to get his act together before you try to bully your way through this, attacking his accomplishments.. You were in so much of a hurry.. think about what you stated here... "Did he put on a set of aluminum heads then with the reduced compression ration, cranked up the boost?" dipstick....
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05:33 PM
Xantavar Member
Posts: 1158 From: Big Rapids, MI...Ferris State Registered: Nov 2002
I think that both Dennis and Oreif are correct in thier assumptions. If it was this simple, why hasn't it been done already??
quote
you really are a piece of work..This guy shared his build on a forum.. and all you can do is try to find fault to discount his accomplishments.. Evidently if one puts a carb on a 2.8 he thinks that he has the rights to talk S... about anybody else.. ..I glanced at the different sites and notice these points.. MIT dyno day.. tubed hedders ..big throttle body ..gold roller rockers ( what ratio?) ..he definitely stated that the BOTTOM END was stock. ..picture of an aftermarket rod.. picture of some pistons Big intercooler. nothing about the boost level except to state that when he ran unde 8psi his results were close to what Dennis stated his were, and he ran into trouble.. Give the guy a chance to get his act together before you try to bully your way through this, attacking his accomplishments.. You were in so much of a hurry.. think about what you stated here... "Did he put on a set of aluminum heads then with the reduced compression ration, cranked up the boost?" dipstick....
You, sir, are a troll AND a dipstick. Try some grammer...it might get you somewhere.
------------------ #7277 of 46581 built in 1987. My thoughts are on you Sean and Chris! Come back safe!
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07:18 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
Man.....a lot of people on here suddenly sound like a bunch of jealous high schoolers.
I'm as curious as anyone on here about the build (as I have a turbocharged Fiero also) but if I was the guy that had found out how to get this kind of power and read some of the posts on here, I wouldn't share my knowledge either.
This kind of crap happens to fieroX too every time he finds a way to go faster (granted he does encourage it though).
Also, this guy can't be using aluminum heads...the 3.4L Camaro intake plenum and manifold won't bolt up to it, and you can see that is what he is using (I do find that LT1 throttle body mod way cool though). Not to mention aluminum heads RAISE compression, not lower it when used with iron head pistons. He'd need pistons with a pretty big dish to keep the compression low with aluminum heads.
Also, that era of Camaros used a lot more advanced ECM than the Fiero, with distributorless ignition. It's much more adaptable to engine modifications.
Ken S.
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10:40 PM
RotrexFiero Member
Posts: 3692 From: Pittsburgh, PA Registered: Jul 2002
There was another Fiero owner who went by the name Vortech88 I believe. If I remember he had a 3.3 with a Vortech supercharger and claimed over 300hp. I was in correspondence with him about two years about, but lost touch. Maybe he will see this and respond.
I know he had a lot of professional help and emphasized tuning the engine properly. He was for sure running over 10psi of boost. Also, I believe he had the engine dynoed.
Found out some more about this motor from my covert ops.
The heads and intake were built by Norris Racing Technologies (NRT) in Findlay, OH.
Tiago's words:
"I bought the NRT parts from my friend James Montigny. I had followed the development of the NRT engine for months when James eneded up being the guinnea pig. I always wanted to get it but could never afford it. Well a year later, unfortunately James wrecked his car, and had to part it out. I jumped at the opportunity. Drove to Kansas City and we did the swap over the weekend. That was not easy lol. We swapped everything heads and up. I got the intake plenum (LT1 throttle body), lower intake manifold, heads, all of which were ported, polished and matched at NRT, 1.6 full roller rockers from crane, chromolly pushrods, 24lb injectors from a LT1, and a Holley Adjustible Fuel Pressure Regulator. The tempeture during that weekend was umbearable, 105 degrees said the thermometer inside the car, felt like a lot more lol, and we were outside for ~12 hrs each day. But we got it done. The Results are amazing, it feels like a completely different engine, and I still have the stock cam"
I did some searching on the web, and Norris Racing Technologies is now called Nu-tek Motorsports. (http://www.nu-tekmotorsports.com/)
Ken S.
[This message has been edited by kslish (edited 07-04-2003).]
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11:33 PM
Jul 5th, 2003
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
you really are a piece of work..This guy shared his build on a forum.. and all you can do is try to find fault to discount his accomplishments..
No, your reading mis-comprehension has done it to you again. I wasn't trying to "fault his accomplishments", I was trying to figure out HOW he did it. In case you didn't read any further, Even Dennis noticed a lack of information on the build. Everyone here would love to duplicate his engine. Even Dennis is amazed. So exactly how was I a bully to a the guy? How did I attack his accomplishments? Also, He didn't post his build on the forum, Dennis found the information on another website and relayed the info here. Then the guys website was posted. Again please try to understand what is really going on.
As usual you have your facts messed up again. I didn't mention any thing about a carb, and I didn't carb a 2.8L dipstick.
You have no clue what you are talking about. I know your still mad about being proven wrong in the EPA thread and the Carb thread, But really, If your going to follow me around in threads and spew the same crap, I think it would be better if you left now.
BTW ~ Don't go away mad, Just go away.
Have A Nice Day. (Another FOAD to you. )
[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 07-05-2003).]
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02:18 AM
Philphine Member
Posts: 6136 From: louisville,ky. usa Registered: Feb 2000
No, your reading mis-comprehension has done it to you again. ...Also, He didn't post his build on the forum, ... Again please try to understand what is really going on.
As usual you have your facts messed up again. I didn't mention any thing about a carb, and I didn't carb a 2.8L dipstick.
You have no clue what you are talking about. I know your still mad about being proven wrong in the EPA thread and the Carb thread, But really, If your going to follow me around in threads and spew the same crap, I think it would be better if you left now.
BTW ~ Don't go away mad, Just go away.
Have A Nice Day. (Another FOAD to you. )
[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 07-05-2003).]
Stick to the issues .. don't go off on tangents.. quit the personal attacks.. grow up.. You cannot change your tune by wishing, rewriting or sidestepping .. you are a dipstick because of your statement of ""Did he put on a set of aluminum heads then with the reduced compression ration, cranked up the boost?" YOUR exact words.. words that prove that your knowlege comes up short in this matter. And as to the "I know your still mad about being proven wrong in the EPA thread and the Carb thread" you are so off base here.. you have much more explaining to do.. I am not mad.. Just going to call it how I see it..AND backing everything that I state. YOU now have to do the same.. ( hint: a phone call does not cut it.. it must be in writing to be stated as fact..) AND as to the ", I think it would be better if you left now.
BTW ~ Don't go away mad, Just go away.
Have A Nice Day. (Another FOAD to you. )" .....grow up and act like a man...how old are you anyway??
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12:46 PM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
I too noticed that this guy is following Oreif around to trash talk him, and by the red in his rating bar, maybe he won't be around for too long.
And the point of your post was to ????
For the record I am not following Oreif around, Do not trash talk and BACK UP everything that I say. My red ratings, AFAIK, mostly are derived from Archie's posse and my asking questions that Archie refused to answer..( regarding the SBC swap.) ie: epa issues.. weight issues .. cost issues ..actual performance issues.. Oreif has nothing to do with it.. except to add the fact that his car is "exempt" from any smog issues and so he can disregard the existing smog laws because of that, AND drive his car anywhere in the US any time, for any amount of miles.. I have asked him to explain this fact to everyone ( backing it up with proof, so that Everyone can duplicate it )..and so far he hasn't..Why??
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01:18 PM
Xantavar Member
Posts: 1158 From: Big Rapids, MI...Ferris State Registered: Nov 2002
SanBerdueFiero, you do not know how to ask a question correctly, so why should you expect an answer? What you really know how to do is to follow other members around attacking them with your nonsense, and pissing people off in general. This fits my definition of a troll, hence my remark about your ratings bar. It is obvious that other members feel the same way, and I am just pointing this fact out. Just a bit of friendly advice, wisen up or be voted off the forum, you are very close to this happening. I also would like to ask the other members for their forgiveness, for having to waste space here, pointing out the obvious to a certain individual.
[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 07-05-2003).]
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05:16 PM
Xantavar Member
Posts: 1158 From: Big Rapids, MI...Ferris State Registered: Nov 2002
