Today begins the process of another engine conversion. Here we will be installing a 3800 Series 1 Supercharged engine from a 1995 Bonneville into a 1988 Fiero with a 5 speed 282 Getrag transmission. The reason for the series 1 is that the customer had bought an engine on Ebay that was supposed to be a 2003 3800 Series II, instead received a 1995 ( never installed ) Series 1 with no accessories, no injectors, and no wiring harness. To releive the blow of spending such a great amount of cash for something that turned out to be miss advertizing, we decided to up the ante and make some use out of the Series 1.
03-25-2003
And we begin
Here we can see John Tinay's car here on the lift being prepared for engine removal. As we can see here it has begun the process of integration with Aus's side scoops and molding kit.
Soon to be removed, the 2.8 still had plenty of life left in it. This engine is for sale with details to follow in the mall section
draining the coolant
------------------ ( the above was the thoughts, views, and opinions of a disgruntled Fiero mechanic, and do not express or imply those of West Coast Fiero, Fieros West, or any other organization - just that of this poor bastard ) :) Eric Nelson Technician, West Coast Fiero 310-305-4111
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02:08 AM
PFF
System Bot
West Coast Fiero Member
Posts: 2044 From: Los Angeles, CA, USA Registered: Jun 2001
47 minutes later, here we are with the cradle assembly out. From this vantage point we can see the rotted battery tray which negates installing a front battery box, as well as minor surface rust through out the subframe and engine bay - not a common thing seen here in Los Angeles.
Here is the factory firewall insulation that will soon be replaced with our heat/sound reflective material kit, also seen here are the worn out shift and select cables - prepare for an order Rodney =-)
Cradle assembly removed and soon to be parted out. The engine will be for sale in the mall section with added details, along with the exhaust components, as well as several other items.
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02:15 AM
StansGT Member
Posts: 914 From: Schoolcraft MI, USA Registered: Jul 2001
Question: Is this a California car and will you have problems smoging it when completed ? I understand from posts on the forum that in Cal if it did not come with a 5 speed it will be a problem to smog.
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11:51 AM
tesmith66 Member
Posts: 7355 From: Jerseyville, IL Registered: Sep 2001
being a company like WCF who has been doing stuff like that for a while, i am sure they know someone who is aware that it is totally legal, while all the other smog shops seem to be oblivious of that fact (sarcasm- just good natured ribbing) i also am interested in that - i don't want to do much modification to my fiero because smogging is such a PITA
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01:33 PM
fiero go fast Member
Posts: 1728 From: Royersford, PA Registered: Apr 2002
Are you using the plug in the coolant tube to drain the coolant? I have NEVER been able to get one of those boogers out. I just remove the hose.
Yeah, thats the reason they are there. There is one on each side I believe. Why can't you get them out? Afraid of rounding them out or are they rusted solid? Matt
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03:00 PM
Sleeper Member
Posts: 726 From: Torrance, Ca Registered: Mar 2000
yes this is a Cali car(the owners lives in northern cali), and YES its going to be completely smog legal. and yes i'm jealous cuz with the work WCF does this guy will get "Best Engineered" every show he goes too.
------------------ 85 GT 3800S/C -- WCF Special Tuning involved
[This message has been edited by Sleeper (edited 03-26-2003).]
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08:33 PM
West Coast Fiero Member
Posts: 2044 From: Los Angeles, CA, USA Registered: Jun 2001
Today's task was to tear down the subframe and make note of anything that would need repair. Among the many things that will be covered in the buildup will be the tear down and rebuilding of the Getrag 282 5 speed transmission.
Here we can see that the engine assembly has been removed and soon to follow will e the transmission, as well as all suspension and driveline.
After carefull inspection of the engine we thought it best as unpractical to attemp to sell the engine as a whole. With 289,000+ miles on the engine it showed us some signs of wear by missing nearly all lobes for #1 intake and exhaust, as well as having nearly 1.75" of slop in the timing chain. We choose it was best to remove every part from the engine block and heads and part it all out. Here we can see a box full of everything, from the tip of the plenum to the bottom, and from the crank pulley to the flywheel.
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10:26 PM
West Coast Fiero Member
Posts: 2044 From: Los Angeles, CA, USA Registered: Jun 2001
Here we can see the 3800 Series 1 Supercharged engine beginning to take shape. As you can see, we choose to utilize the 2.8 CS Series alternator as the engine was shipped with absolutely no accessories, injectors, or wiring harness. The use of the alternator from the 2.8 proved to be uite an advantage as it's smaller size ( compared to the factory equiped 3800 unit ) made it quite easy to mount in this location hich was done primarily to clean up the top area of the engine bay, as well as to provide clearance for the decklid.
Taking shape here is the modified 2.8 throttle body being used in this compound charged application. The primary reason for it's use is that the inlet size of this throttle body is the same as the outlet of the Garrett T3/T4 turbocharger. If the original 3800 throttle body were to be used it would have to have the venting passages sealed, and there would be extensive fabrication involved in constructing a tube that would go between the smaller size of the turbo to the nearly twice as large throttlebody - this was just not necessary.
Being constructed here is the fuel injector wiring harness manifold which is used to hide the pesky wires from show judjes.
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10:45 PM
West Coast Fiero Member
Posts: 2044 From: Los Angeles, CA, USA Registered: Jun 2001
Here is a shot of the rear exhaust manifold taking shape. As you can see we choose to mimic the factory front cast iron manifold ( PERFECT for a turbo application ) as it will prove to have a perfect amount of back pressure for the turbo, as well as saving some much needed room that full length headers would take up.
Among many of the mods, the factory idler pulley bracket was completely reworked as it just didnt have any Gucci-ness to it. Here we can see that the idler has been relocated, as well as the missing sections that would have been the alternator support as well as the dogbone bracket.
hey Eric, This should be an interesting project to watch come together. What is the projected Horsepower rating for the completed install??
HEHEHE - hopefully something completely insane, we want John to have his life flash before his eyes every time he stomps the "go" pedal
------------------ ( the above was the thoughts, views, and opinions of a disgruntled Fiero mechanic, and do not express or imply those of West Coast Fiero, Fieros West, or any other organization - just that of this poor bastard ) :) Eric Nelson Technician, West Coast Fiero 310-305-4111
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01:14 AM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
yes this is a Cali car(the owners lives in northern cali), and YES its going to be completely smog legal. and yes i'm jealous cuz with the work WCF does this guy will get "Best Engineered" every show he goes too.
..really getting tired of the doublespeak...
For those who don't get it.. this is an off road only "CA swap" (for that matter ..Federal rules also).. And WC Fiero (like archie) seem to not have the intestinal fortitude to talk straight...but instead let "other people" talk for them, and evade the 'Hard Questions'.. This IS an interesting project, but I would rather see WCF document a "legal" swap, ALL the way through the legal issues..oh well..
And anyone that feels like flaming me should talk to "Orville" first..
....."and yes i'm jealous cuz with the work WCF does this guy will get "Best Engineered" every show he goes too. "
..And just how is he going to get to these shows??..On a trailer?? ..Best Engineered, for a car that will be illegal to drive on the street...??? He(The Owner) won't have to worry about breaking ANYTHING that way... I can hear it now,, "MY Getrag / ____ clutch, holds up just fine behind my supercharged AND turbocharged 3.8 swap." ...
OK - before we get started on all this in-fighting, this car will NOT be smog legal, in any way to CA standards. It will be registered out of state ( to my knowledge, I myself am not in the loop of these particular details as this is Chris' dept. )
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01:30 PM
West Coast Fiero Member
Posts: 2044 From: Los Angeles, CA, USA Registered: Jun 2001
...... And John will be driving the PISS out of the car on a daily basis, if it were to be on a trailer it would be because some folks don't like driving thier cars to shows, and yes, it did show up here on a trailer - only because it came from George Miller's shop where the car was raped and pillaged.
big freggin deal , haha, you know that was my idea. Oh well you can have it, good luck to you. Where the hell is my console :P jk. Late
Darn Ryan where have you being? Anywayz unless you had this idea way back in '97 then I will have to agree to disagree ------------------------------- 3800 II v6 intercooled turbo...CWP!
[This message has been edited by nocutt (edited 03-27-2003).]
...... And John will be driving the PISS out of the car on a daily basis, .....
Now that the smog legality issue is out of the way, (and well addressed by WCF too) this swap opens the door (really wide) for swapping in a 3800 sc WITH a manual transaxle...or adding a turbo to a 3800 na.. Engine management is always an issue, ( please don't pull a Skitime, and state that a "friend who shall remain nameless, reprogramed the computer...AND won't do it for anyone else). For a daily driver with a sc/turbo application, engine management needs to be right on... I can't wait to read more... Thanks WCF....
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03:50 PM
PFF
System Bot
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
Now that the smog legality issue is out of the way, (and well addressed by WCF too) this swap opens the door (really wide) for swapping in a 3800 sc WITH a manual transaxle...or adding a turbo to a 3800 na.. Engine management is always an issue, ( please don't pull a Skitime, and state that a "friend who shall remain nameless, reprogramed the computer...AND won't do it for anyone else). For a daily driver with a sc/turbo application, engine management needs to be right on... I can't wait to read more... Thanks WCF....
San Berdue - engine management is one of the pivitol aspects of this swap, thanks fer bringing it up , we will be using a Haltech E6GM to run the system which will provide on the fly tuning and adjusting, no one really wants to mess around with burning and reprograming a stock ECM. I will cover the tuning phase when the mechanical aspect of the swap is done, not too sure on how I will cover copying the tuning screen on the PC moniter to paste on Pennocks, but Iwill figure it out =-)
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06:55 PM
West Coast Fiero Member
Posts: 2044 From: Los Angeles, CA, USA Registered: Jun 2001
note the smileys and the jk at the end. haha. This thing is going to kick some major V8 ass
Ryan - 'member, we have all gotten past this now - its not about 6 vs 8, its all about just how stoopid you can get with horsepower, no matter how many mice are spinning the wheel under the hood
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06:58 PM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
Ryan - 'member, we have all gotten past this now - its not about 6 vs 8, its all about just how stoopid you can get with horsepower, no matter how many mice are spinning the wheel under the hood
Yeah I guess it really doesnt matter anyway, hell we'll never know whats the best swap as far as performance, I mean the V8 guys have nothing to prove . man Im really asking for it today! just messing around, its going to be a good night
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08:44 PM
spddy Member
Posts: 815 From: Concord ,ca usa Registered: Mar 2003
Yes the car will be legal in cal because it will be registered as a specialty vehicle(as if it was a kit car)thats the legal way around the smog laws...And yes I will be driving the PISS out of this car on a daily basis...it will not be a trailer queen..GREAT WORK TO ALL AT WCF...THANKS ..really getting tired of the doublespeak...
For those who don't get it.. this is an off road only "CA swap" (for that matter ..Federal rules also).. And WC Fiero (like archie) seem to not have the intestinal fortitude to talk straight...but instead let "other people" talk for them, and evade the 'Hard Questions'.. This IS an interesting project, but I would rather see WCF document a "legal" swap, ALL the way through the legal issues..oh well..
And anyone that feels like flaming me should talk to "Orville" first..
....."and yes i'm jealous cuz with the work WCF does this guy will get "Best Engineered" every show he goes too. "
..And just how is he going to get to these shows??..On a trailer?? ..Best Engineered, for a car that will be illegal to drive on the street...??? He(The Owner) won't have to worry about breaking ANYTHING that way... I can hear it now,, "MY Getrag / ____ clutch, holds up just fine behind my supercharged AND turbocharged 3.8 swap." ...
but I would rather see WCF document a "legal" swap, ALL the way through the legal issues..oh well..
this guy said LEGAL, haha. why would you want a legal swap? theres no fun in it. if you wanted a legal swap you can take everything away except the 3.4 pushrod motor, so then you only got 20 more hp over the 2.8. no fun.
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09:38 AM
West Coast Fiero Member
Posts: 2044 From: Los Angeles, CA, USA Registered: Jun 2001
this guy said LEGAL, haha. why would you want a legal swap? theres no fun in it. if you wanted a legal swap you can take everything away except the 3.4 pushrod motor, so then you only got 20 more hp over the 2.8. no fun.
This will be a legall swap as far as the car WILL have registration tags and smog papers to pass the car when all is said and done, as far as how this will be done, you will want to personally speak with the vehicles' owner SPPDY, who I am sure will answer your questions, once again I myself am out of the smog loop.
Also spoke with Orville today and I will be calling the CARB refs here as well to see what kinds of scenarios I can throw at them. From experience when we had a 3800 Series II Supercharged Auto go straight to the refs from the shop, the biggest concern from them was the headers which is why we went and had them CARB approved ( pending EO number ), thus making the swap a turn key smog legal swap just as a 3.4 - and incedently the 3.4 pushrod is smog legall only because none of us Fiero owners ever bother to tell them that there is a 3.4 under neath all the 2.8 hardware
edited for spelling
[This message has been edited by West Coast Fiero (edited 03-29-2003).]
Well I used this week to primarily get some orders out the door, however tomorrow we will begin to assemble the cradle, as well as install the cradle into the car
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11:54 PM
Apr 8th, 2003
West Coast Fiero Member
Posts: 2044 From: Los Angeles, CA, USA Registered: Jun 2001
Well, we have finally had a chance to continue with this swap.....
wiring harness beginning to take shape as the engine prepares its trip down to the subframe
Upcoming Project....
Subframe ready to go after intense cleaning, corrosion control, and painting. Here we can see the polyurethane engine and transmission mounts in place.
9 11/16" Sintered Iron disk and pressure plate ready for duty
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03:47 AM
West Coast Fiero Member
Posts: 2044 From: Los Angeles, CA, USA Registered: Jun 2001
Engine mated to the rebuilt Getrag 5 speed, all resting on the 88 subframe. No subframe mods, it's a beautiful thing =-)
Now it is time for corrosion control within the engine bay.
Blocking off the original ECM and main harness feedthrough, This is done to significantly clean up the engine bay. As you can see, new passages have been fabricated into the firewall down low out of sight for the ECM and main harness feed throughs
Battery box installed
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03:55 AM
West Coast Fiero Member
Posts: 2044 From: Los Angeles, CA, USA Registered: Jun 2001
Interior shot of the ECM soon to be installed, as well as the panel that is sealing off the original ECM and main harness bulkhead feedthrough locations.
Nasty icky rust - soon to be evicted
After extensive use of various power and airtools and enough chemicals to choke a horse, the rust has disappeared.
Primer layed on, now it will be time to weld up the holes left from the extraction of the OEM battery tray, or rather what was left of it.
Well, we have finally had a chance to continue with this swap.....
9 11/16" Sintered Iron disk and pressure plate ready for duty
Don't forget to releave the inside of the bell housing when using this setup. It might not be necessary based on your flywheel, but it is a good thing to check before everthing gets bolted together.
------------------ 85 SE 2M6 "Fiero Addiction" 85 SE SC3800 Series II 5-Speed
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10:08 AM
West Coast Fiero Member
Posts: 2044 From: Los Angeles, CA, USA Registered: Jun 2001
Don't forget to releave the inside of the bell housing when using this setup. It might not be necessary based on your flywheel, but it is a good thing to check before everthing gets bolted together.
These pressure plates that we are having built now solve the problem of interference with the inner bellhousing which the previous pressure plates exhibited. For over a year now there have not been any problems with the 5 speed setup with our pressure plate as there is now plenty of room left from the back of the pressure plate to the inner bellhousing.
and yes i'm jealous cuz with the work WCF does this guy will get "Best Engineered" every show he goes too. 
, haha, you know that was my idea. Oh well you can have it, good luck to you. Where the hell is my console 
:P jk. Late
