Yesterday at the shop I was experimenting on a valve cover for my new 4.9 RSR motor with an electric grinder on the work bench as you know because the valve cover is so ugly and gets pitted after all these years I set about to redesign them. while grinding and cutting all of asudden without any warning ......Booooom there was a big explosion and I was on fire my clothes the pants leg and my arm..........I started to swat out the fire but it kept getting bigger ran to the sink it went out momentarily but came right back and continued like this for awhile the dust from the grinding was fueling the fire and the spark from the wheel sparked the fire luckily I was not burned just frightened the shop would explode from the fumes .
Lesson learned dont grind on 4.9 valve covers with a hi speed grinder they are made from magnesium and blaze easy so be careful but the valve covers came out real nice and a new look so the fire was worth the effort.

Master Tuner Akimoto
when grinding mag. do it out side so the filing get dispursed and not concentrated in one area happen to me years ago when working a VW crank case to be polished

pics?

and I used to love burning Magnesium in Chemistry class...
It reminds me of the time I had a gram of Sodium under oil and a 2 liter water bottle.....

Heh... magnesium things should have a stamp on it.

quote Originally posted by Master Tuner Akimoto: Yesterday at the shop I was experimenting on a valve cover for my new 4.9 RSR motor with an electric grinder on the work bench as you know because the valve cover is so ugly and gets pitted after all these years I set about to redesign them. while grinding and cutting all of asudden without any warning ......Booooom there was a big explosion and I was on fire my clothes the pants leg and my arm..........I started to swat out the fire but it kept getting bigger ran to the sink it went out momentarily but came right back and continued like this for awhile the dust from the grinding was fueling the fire and the spark from the wheel sparked the fire luckily I was not burned just frightened the shop would explode from the fumes . Lesson learned dont grind on 4.9 valve covers with a hi speed grinder they are made from magnesium and blaze easy so be careful but the valve covers came out real nice and a new look so the fire was worth the effort.

Doh.... I should of warned you when I showed my valve covers, I used a high speed grinder... But did mine very slowly, After the ribs were gone I used a wheel sander on my grinder to get the valve covers even, I also had the valve covers wet to prevent any fires.... Use a resperater also, After breathing that stuff in I felt like crap Use eye protection also.

I had a peice fly off on fire and stick to my arm Also the oil collected from under the valve cover will cause fires, I degressed mine throughly. I have to amit I had the same thing happen to me in my garage That's when I went to having them wet when grinding.

Im glad your ok but becareful next time.

When your done email me some pics or pm me pics of those valve covers my email is Earl123_2001@yahoo.com

For mine I used a chrome spray paint and used a high temp clear coat for the color. I used steel putty to cover the pits in mine then sanded I also covered the pfi because mine carbed

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[This message has been edited by 86fieroEarl (edited 11-04-2004).]

SCREW the VC's and the safety tips!! ARE YOU ALRIGHT? Are you hurt (besides pride), will you still be showing up at FoF?

Growing up my father was in the Navy and had several films of Airplanes burning. That was one thing I remember clearly growing up, learning that metal can burn.

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Central Florida Fieros
Home of Fantasy of Flight Cruise
www.centralfloridafieros.org

exactly how much heat is needed to ignite magnesium??? could it be done with a BiC lighter??? or do you need something like a blowtorch....

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'86 Fiero GT

My Fiero XoticRydz Mid-Rear Madness

Be Excellent To Each Other" - Bill S. Preston Esquire Ted Theadore Logan

Better questions is.. got pics?

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1988 Aero 88 coupe.. 2.8l v6.. more mods to come.
Photo Gallery - Fiero Links - WebShop

The VC's on my 3.5 S* are also Mag. I had a machine shop cut out the oil fill boss from the left cover and relocate it to the right. There is NNOOOOOOOO WAY I am going to try to WELD Mag. I let them do it. They did turn out good and no I can fill my oil from the stock looking location, and kept my deck lid springs by relocating the oil fill boss. So it was worth the $60 to let the pro's do it
I did do some grinding and sanding but very little. I did not want a flame up, and I had no idea how much it would take to "set Them off"

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Rickady88GT QuadCam 3.5 V6

quote Originally posted by TaurusThug: exactly how much heat is needed to ignite magnesium??? could it be done with a BiC lighter??? or do you need something like a blowtorch....

You would need something on the order of a oxy-propane torch to set a thick valve cover on fire... Thin strips would get by with just a regular torch. Bic lighter won't cut it. The heat of grinding apparently is enough to ignite the powdered magnesium, and once the powder is burning, the solid will probably burn too (not as readily). btw - once magnesium is burning, nothing's going to put it out... best to step back, and clear flammables away

quote Originally posted by Master Tuner Akimoto: Booooom there was a big explosion and I was on fire my clothes the pants leg and my arm..........

Now that is scary stuff!

Glad to hear you're okay. Thanks for bringing these dangers to our attention.

You can extinguish a magnesium fire by preventing oxygen from getting to it. That's what water does when you spray a fire. Unfortunately, magnesium burns hot enough to disassociate water into hydrogen and oxygen gasses, which in turn add to the fire. Can't use water to put out a magnesium fire.

JazzMan

But you can weld magnesium! Go figure!
The trick to it is, that when you weld, the shielding gas in that gas bottle prevents the metal from oxidizing (burning) This applies to ALL metals in all welding applications otherwise, welding would not be possible. Welding magnesium is not really all that different from welding titanium or aluminum.

That being said. I guess the best way to ignite magnesium is to tig weld it with the shielding gas turned off. Look out!

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: You can extinguish a magnesium fire by preventing oxygen from getting to it. That's what water does when you spray a fire. Unfortunately, magnesium burns hot enough to disassociate water into hydrogen and oxygen gasses, which in turn add to the fire. Can't use water to put out a magnesium fire. JazzMan

Actually, that's not true. Magnesium fires, like all metal fires, create their own oxygen. Once it starts, it won't go out. If you are dealing with magnesium dust, you can prevent the fire from spreading throughout the dust pile, but if you get a solid piece going, forget it. It will have to burn itself out. Magnesium and other metals can burn under water. It's actually pretty cool. But, metal fires give off EXTREMELY poisonous gases. Do not breathe the fumes, and don't get near it. Metal fires burn at about 3000 degrees......yeah, it's hot! Standard fires.....wood, paper, fuels....burn at roughly 1500-1800 degrees. Grinders can start metal burning, as MTA had happen, but it takes a lot to start a metal fire.

Metals that fall into the Class D fire category include magnesum, lithium, sodium, titanium, and even aluminum. There are others, but you get the point. There is a special fire extinguisher to deal with metal fires, and a regular fire extinguisher will not handle it. No water, no ABC dry chemical, no CO2, no halon......nothing. Just class D powder.

Mark
Airgas Fire Protection

[This message has been edited by Firefox (edited 11-05-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Firefox: Magnesium and other metals can burn under water. It's actually pretty cool. But, metal fires give off EXTREMELY poisonous gases. Do not breathe the fumes, and don't get near it.

LOL ya, just for kicks one day I threw 4 84 engine vents in a fire I had burning, once they lit up I used a metal rod to flip them into the salt water. Those suckers burnt just as intense under water as they did in the open air. They burned a brilliant white and yep, there's some real nasty gas that comes off burning magnesium.

edit to fix the smilies......

[This message has been edited by jelly2m8 (edited 11-05-2004).]

since we're talking about safety... LOL... don't look at burning magnesium - it gives off intense UV rays (just like welding)

YIKES!

[This message has been edited by USFiero (edited 11-07-2004).]

quote You would need something on the order of a oxy-propane torch to set a thick valve cover on fire... Thin strips would get by with just a regular torch. Bic lighter won't cut it.

You can ignite magnesium shavings with a bic lighter or even a hot light bulb. I posted a warning about this last year. I had a fire on my milling machine when chips from a 4.9 valve cover hit the machine's work light. After that I gathered the shavings from the floor and table into a coffee can and lit them with a bic. Add compressed air and they will give you a sun tan and burn a hole through the bottom of the can. They are also good for campfires!

I'm glad you're okay burning magnesium (metal fires in general) can be dangerous.

quote Originally posted by rockcrawl: They are also good for campfires!

You can buy magnesium fire starter kits for camp fires. Also if you get some ferris oxide(rusted iron) in a powder and some aluminum powder and mix the two very well and the ignite the mix with some magnesium it will also burn. This is what they use for thermite grenades that they use to sabatoge or destroy artillery/tanks if they have to leave them behind. We made some in class(I'm a chem major) it is fun stuff.

The problem you can have with lighting a magnesium strip is that sometimes the outside can become oxidized if you just scrape off the outside you can light it with a bic lighter.

quote Originally posted by Firefox: Actually, that's not true. Magnesium fires, like all metal fires, create their own oxygen.

What's the reaction on that? Mg doesn't have O in it at all, to create O it has to get it from somewhere in order to combust (oxidize), and that source normally is air which is 21% or so O2. Mg will burn with O, and surprisingly N and CO2, here's some info:

http://www.glencoe.com/sec/science/chemistry/mc/pow/chapter10t.shtml

And some extinguishing information here: http://www.ilpi.com/safety/extinguishers.html

An interesting experiment: http://www.ilpi.com/genchem/demo/co2mg/

I happen to like magnesium as an engineering material, flammability issues aside.

JazzMan

ooooh! all of those 84 deck lids in the junk yards do have a use!!! Any idea how pure the magnesium is? I think I will be making some fireworks next year (safely of course)

Kris

Your a lucky guy. Glad your OK! But since you discovered it without injury, kind of cool isn't it. My twin sons and I experimented with some things for fun a couple of years ago. If I remeber correctly magnesium (not an alloy), pottasium nitrate and a drop of water is what we found that needed no heat at all to start the reaction. Just Kaboom!!! I could be wrong my memory sucks. The idea was this though: The magnesium and the pottasium nitrate were solids in powder or granual form. The magnesium is the fuel, the potassium nitrate the oxidizer. When the drop of water was added the potassium nitrate began to immediately react with the magnesium and created its own heat which in turn accellerated the reaction. You don't get to watch, it happens in less than micro seconds! Not reccommending you to try this, just a matter of interest. And yes you must have oxygen available, magnesium will not "create oxygen" but it doesn't need air for the soarce.