So after reassembling the engine on my '88 coupe and taking my first test drive, I'm still pretty psyched over the fact that the car runs so well when we discover the problem with the rear passenger rotor. (See last Hottie Diary entry on Engine Adventures for full details)
This was on Thursday (April 29th) and I took Friday (April 30th) off to go to the PGA tournament, so I didn't get back to working on the car until Saturday (May 1st).
Saturday I wake up and it's raining. No biggie. I figure I can at least pick up the parts I need and hopefully by the afternoon things will clear up and I'll get to install everything so I can be on the road Saturday night. (I couldn't wait to go cruising on Bourbon Street, so I had to get crackin'. LOL)
So I started Saturday morning by calling around to see if I could find the rotor I needed. Called AutoZone, Advance Auto Parts and Pep Boys--all three didn't have any in stock. It would have to be ordered and it would be at least 3-5 days before I'd get it. That definitely wasn't an option. I didn't spend all that time working on the engine just to be sidelined for another week waiting for parts. So I turned to the forum and posted in the Tech section to see if anyone knew of a comparable rotor that I could use from another car.
Turns out the '95 Chevy Cavalier's front rotors work on the back of an '88 Fiero--so it was back to my online shopping tool for the local auto parts stores. I found the babies I was looking for at Advance Auto for only $17--whoo hoo! I was in business! I borrowed a car (since "The Hottie" was sitting in my yard patiently waiting for her rotor and brake transplant) and stopped at Advance to pick up the rotor; then swung by AutoZone to pick up the brake pads.
I could have gotten the brake pads at Advance, but I've gotten so used to going to AutoZone, it seemed almost adulterous getting parts from somewhere else. LOL After all, they did offer me a job. hehe
After picking up the rotor and brake pads, I needed to find a replacement for the caliper bolt that had worked its way out and become lost. I checked AutoZone, one of the local hardware stores and then finally, finally found the M12, 150 bolt at Advance behind the counter. I thought I'd found a similar one in the aisle, but when I asked the guy if it would work--no dice, since that one was standard inches and mine was metric. So he checked in the back and I was lucky enough that they had the replacement, and it was only $0.88! I could have kissed him I was soo happy! I was beginning to think I'd end up having to buy new calipers all because of a missing bolt, so finding this one was music to my ears. (In any event, I did tell him that I'd love him forever--so he was happy. LOL)
Armed with my newly-acquired Fiero brake supplies, I headed home to begin the "transplant". Luckily it had stopped raining, so I would actually be able to do the repairs and hopefully be back on the road in no time.
Here are my new brake pads:
A good comparison pic of the old ones (left) and the new ones (right):
There definitely wasn't anything left on these babies!
The new and old rotor:
BIG DIFFERENCE! I was so lucky to be able to drive on this--I can't believe how bad it was!
My new bolt and the replacement bulb for the 3rd brake light:
Once I had my parts and supplies assembled, I jacked the car up, put on the jack stands and removed the tire. Here's a pic of the wheel awaiting the new rotor:
Brick (one of the neighborhood mechanics who'd been coming by to offer advice and assistance during my engine work) had gotten the piston turned back in, so all I had to do was add the new rotor and install the brakes and caliper.
--cont--
------------------
I may not know alot about cars...but I make a Fiero look good! "The Hottie" Coming Soon!
---cont-- It all looks pretty simple, so I start by cleaning off some of the dirt that's accumulated in the wheel.
I didn't notice any rust, which was good, so then I slid the new rotor into place:
I had to lift it a little and jiggle it to get it to go into place, but it fit perfectly:
Voila! Brand new rotor!
This looked so good, it got me thinking about what color I should paint the rotors....hmmm...shiny silver looks really, really good! LOL
The next step was to replace the caliper. I lined everything up and got ready to put in the bolts to hold it in place.
While I was working on the brakes, there was this tow truck that had been sitting in the street with the hood open for awhile. The driver was sitting in the cab of the truck, talking on his cellphone. We'd been keeping an eye on him to see what was going on (especially since he was blocking most of the street). Well, it turns out that Big Mike's truck had gotten stuck in the mud in his backyard and he'd called a tow truck to come pull him out. The tow truck showed up, but he couldn't get Mike's car out for some reason. When the driver was trying to leave, his tow truck stopped, so he called for backup....
LOL! What a sight! Definitely don't want to call these guys if you ever need roadside assistance! I'd never seen anything so funny before. hehe The guy was definitely a bit embarrassed by the whole thing. Then, to top it off, Brick walks up, shifts a couple of gears on Big Mike's truck and drives it out of the mud with no problem! So now the tow truck dude is really embarrassed! LOL We stood there and watched his truck being loaded up on the flatbed, then driven away, beaten and defeated. hehe Guess we won't get a service call in our neighborhood for awhile. hehe
--cont--
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12:57 AM
Miss-Tress007 Member
Posts: 541 From: New Orleans, LA, USA--now in Greensboro, GA thanks to Hurricane Katrina Registered: Feb 2004
--cont-- Since I'm now convinced that our block is going to be known as "the tow truck slayers" I'm even more determined to get these brakes replaced and have "The Hottie" running asap. hehe So I get back to work and insert the bolts to hold the calipers onto the wheel. Here's the new one that I found:
perfect fit btw
And here's the caliper attached to the rotor:
I finished by screwing in the other bolt,
then tightening both sides:
Here's the new rotor and caliper installed:
A front view:
Mmm, shiny.....
I bet it had been awhile since both sides had been screwed in. I couldn't believe that they actually drove the car with the rotor and caliper in such bad shape. <sigh, shakes head> The way some people treat their cars is absolutely deplorable. I'm beginning to feel glad that I "rescued" this car in time and was able to give it a good home. LOL I know I'm going to spoil it rotten! hehe
--cont--
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12:59 AM
Miss-Tress007 Member
Posts: 541 From: New Orleans, LA, USA--now in Greensboro, GA thanks to Hurricane Katrina Registered: Feb 2004
Now the next step in the process would seem to be pretty simple--just insert the brake pads, pins and springs, then put the tire back on, right? Well, sort of. After taking a look at the pics that I'd taken of the brake setup a couple of days before and referring to the manuals to double-check, I tried inserting the first brake pads on the front side of the rotor, making sure that the springs were positioned around the pins, like so:
Once those were in, I then tried to repeat the process with the second brake pad in the back of the rotor.
But I couldn't get it to go in. There just wasn't enough space between the rotor and the caliper to allow the new brake pad to fit inside. So, I took out the first brake pad and this time tried installing the ones in the back first; then doing the ones in the front. Same problem. They couldn't squeeze in there with the caliper screwed all the way in. Then I realized that I had the bolts tightened too much. So I loosened the bolts a bit, and inserted the other brake pads.
Once I got everything lined up, I tightened the bolts on the back.
My first brake job completed!
side view:
I then replaced the tire:
and "The Hottie" was as good as new:
Now on to the next couple of tires..... --cont--
[This message has been edited by Miss-Tress007 (edited 05-09-2005).]
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01:01 AM
Miss-Tress007 Member
Posts: 541 From: New Orleans, LA, USA--now in Greensboro, GA thanks to Hurricane Katrina Registered: Feb 2004
--cont-- Before getting started on the driver's side rear tire, I decided to go ahead and replace the 3rd brake light bulb:
The first brake replacement process was a bit tedious, so I needed a quick fix to say I'd accomplished something on the car rather quickly. LOL
Third brake light bulb replaced and ready:
Now on to the driver's side rear wheel: Once we jacked up the car and removed the tire, I checked the rotor on this side and it looked okay. Aside from some flecks of dirt and small bits of rust, it was fine.
I'd decided not to change the rotors on the other tires since I could only find one rotor in the first place. I figured after getting one done, I could go back and replace the other side once I found the other part with no problem.
In any event, there was plenty of rotor left on this side. It was almost the same width as the new one I'd just installed on the passenger side:
I loosened the bolts on the caliper:
and removed the old brake pads:
One of these was definitely more worn than the other, so I was glad to be replacing these.
We tightened the caliper bolts and replaced the tire on the driver's side:
Good as new!
Or so we thought...... ---cont---
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01:02 AM
Miss-Tress007 Member
Posts: 541 From: New Orleans, LA, USA--now in Greensboro, GA thanks to Hurricane Katrina Registered: Feb 2004
--cont-- After putting the tires back on in the back, we needed to move the car out of the yard to be able to jack up the front and change out the brake pads. The front tires were on the grass, and with the recent rain, the ground was too soft to support the jack. Easy solution, just move the car out onto the street and finish the job there.
Well, as we're about to start her up and move out, another neighborhood mechanic (Herman aka Meathead) comes over to see how things are progressing. (He's the guy who was originally helping me with the car--my mechanic mentor. LOL) So, eager to show my teacher how well I did with the engine, I fired her up (she sounded so cool) and put her in gear to back out. The transmission engages like normal, but when I go to give her some gas and back out, she doesn't move. ?????
I give it a little more gas......nothing. Now I'm confused...the emergency brake isn't on, but the car isn't moving. It's in gear, but not going anywhere. So what's the deal?! We check the brake fluid; check the brake pedal---everything is fine.
Then, Meathead (Herman) says, "It seems like your brakes are locked up".----Duh! We'd overtightened the bolts and actually locked the brakes onto the rotor! So to double check, we take the wheel off of the driver's side and sure enough, the rotor won't turn a bit when we try to spin it. Now we're ROTLFLMAO! Of course, we wanted to make sure that all of the bolts were tightened, especially on the brakes right? Well, in our over-zealousness, we tightened them just a little too much and ended up locking the car in place. hehe
So we loosened the bolts (no longer over-tightened but tight), checked the rotor for spin, then put the tire back on and tried it again. This time, everything worked fine and I started backing her out.
Check out the 3rd brake light---coolness.
Now the brake pedal was really hard. Had to bleed the brakes a bit. So my mentor mechanic showed me how to do it and we got that all straightened out.
It was starting to get dark, so we quickly removed the front two tires and checked the pads on those. They looked almost new, so we decided not to replace them.
Finally! I was able to take "The Hottie" on a quick test drive to check everything out:
That's me! The headlights had been repaired already, so we were night-ready!
Time to hit the road!
First stop was to the gas station to fill up---didn't want a repeat of the running-out-of-gas experience, LOL--so I filled up on 89 octane (the good stuff):
Gas gauge works! All full!
As of this moment, I was one step closer to finally being able to declare my independence from having to borrow other people's cars and am now the proud owner of a Fiero that's close to being ready as my daily driver! Whoo-hoo!
--cont--
[This message has been edited by Miss-Tress007 (edited 05-09-2005).]
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01:04 AM
Miss-Tress007 Member
Posts: 541 From: New Orleans, LA, USA--now in Greensboro, GA thanks to Hurricane Katrina Registered: Feb 2004
My second stop is to the local car wash to get my baby cleaned up. Here's "The Hottie" ready and waiting for her first major cleanup:
I open everything up and get ready for the full cleanup job:
I started with vacuuming all of the leftover pine needles, leaves and debris from the front and insides:
It's amazing how much junk collects in the front of these cars. LOL
Next, I start off with the high-powered soap spray:
All suds and bubble bath:
I scrubbed and washed, but you can't wash off the need for a new paint job. LOL Anyway, I tried. I managed to get off the greasy fingerprints, which was a start, but other than that, there wasn't much else to be done. hehe
All rinsed off and shiny, well sort of. It is kinda a camera trick LOL. The car really isn't that clean:
---cont--
[This message has been edited by Miss-Tress007 (edited 05-09-2005).]
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01:06 AM
Miss-Tress007 Member
Posts: 541 From: New Orleans, LA, USA--now in Greensboro, GA thanks to Hurricane Katrina Registered: Feb 2004
So now that "The Hottie" is all clean, we hit the road to test her out. She handles great and I'm lovin' being on the road. I keep an eye on the temperature gauge and start testing the car's limits.
We stopped after a bit to check on the fan and the water level and parked next to the bayou---made a good pic, especially with the water as high as it was:
Then it was off to Canal Street downtown to test her out in stop-and-go traffic:
Now Canal Street runs the entire width of the city, more or less, and is the busiest place downtown besides Bourbon Street (which begins at Canal St., a simple right hand turn) and the French Quarter. Anyone and everyone who's on their way to either of those places usually ends up somewhere on Canal Street. Harrah's Casino is there, along with hotels, restaurants, etc.
We got plenty of looks, mainly from people who were looking down on us, trying to figure out what kind of car it was. LOL Saturday night on Canal Street is like cruising central, so there were plenty of people there showing off their rides, and "The Hottie" was right in the middle of it all! LOL
The funniest part was how low the car sits compared to other cars---we were looking up at everybody and seemed to be further away from the curb than most. hehe
We got downtown too late to get onto Bourbon Street, since they close it to car traffic at about 7or 8pm, but we were certainly entertained by some other people who were definitely in the celebrating mood for one reason or another. LOL This was the last weekend of JazzFest and the PGA Tournament, so there was quite a number of people out and about who were into having a good time. At one traffic light, there was this guy dressed in a Saints jersey with a football helmet on his head dancing in the street. He crossed over and started doing this weird dance with the traffic pole----talk about leghumping, this guy was pole-humping! LOL
Smile, you're on the "Hottie Cam"! LMAO
We snapped a few pics of people here and there before the battery gave out, then headed to the interstate to really test the engine. Up until that point, I'd only been in street traffic really and hadn't gone over about 40-45 mph. Once I found the closest on-ramp, we headed onto I10 to see what a 4 cylinder could do.
Merging onto the interstate was smooth and she accelerated quickly. I eased into it and kept pushing her bit by bit to see how she would respond. The engine shifted coolly and the transmission was tight. The next thing I knew we were flying at 65mph, then 70, 75mph and it didn't even feel like it! Man, it was the coolest thing! To be riding along on the interstate at 75-80mph in a car whose engine you just got through repairing yourself was the greatest experience!
We rode up and down the interstate; took exits, got off and back on over and over again to try her out in all sorts of road types and situations. Passing, merging, turns, curves---you name it, we tried it and "The Hottie" responded great every time! The temperature didn't get above 170-200 degrees, since we didn't have the temperature sensor plugged in and the fan automatically kicked in and stayed on once we started going.
The only other issue was this persistent bumping/clanking kind of noise that was coming from the front passenger wheel area. I figured it meant that we needed shocks, since the ride was a bit rough at times, so I added that to the list of things to check out the next day.
We drove around for about an hour and 35-40 minutes, then I took an exit off-ramp, then hit a steep hill right after that. The car sputtered a bit for the first time, then the temperature gauge started climbing---damn! We pulled over once it passed 225 since it was still rising, and shut the car off.
So there we were, sitting in the dark on the side of the road, and I was torn between grinning from ear-to-ear and wanting to bang my head on the steering wheel because the temperature was running up again. So we had a brief problem-solving session as we waited for the car to cool down. What had people on the forum said about the fan, temperature sensor, thermostat and cooling system when I'd first posted about the overheating problem? So we discussed it and decided that with everything else that we'd taken care of when we addressed the overheating issue, we hadn't correctly filled the cooling system or gotten rid of the bubbles by burping the system once we'd filled it with water.
BINGO!! A solution! We'd let the engine cool off; get the car back home, then find out the correct fill procedures and burp the system in the morning.
We sat there for about 25-30 minutes, then started it up and started on our way home. The car was fine (we hadn't let it get to the point where the engine shut off because of the temperature) so we were able to drive for a bit before the temperature started climbing again. Then we pulled over and waited some more. Took about another 30-40 minutes, but the temperature cooled off and we drove the rest of the way home.
Once we pulled into the yard, I admit I was a bit torn. I could still feel the adrenaline from our 80mph romp on the interstate and could feel the torque as I took the curves in the off-ramps low and fast. Even though the temperature had risen a bit, I had another solution to solving the problem, and the most important thing was that the engine was tight and I was definitely addicted to driving a Fiero.
I couldn't wait until Sunday morning to try out the fill procedures for the cooling system to get the air bubbles out. But tonight, I would do some research on the forum and my dreams would be filled of open roads and winding turns in my little 4 cylinder.
I got her on the road--at least for a little bit---now I had to complete the rebuilding/restoration process to make her completely road-ready and safe to drive. We still had to check out the temperature problem and find out what the deal is with that knocking/banging sound in the front wheel. All in all, there's still a bit to be done to declare full independence. The knocking sound turned out to be a bit more than we bargained for......
Stay tuned for the next entry in "The Hottie" Diaries......the saga continues!
--Tress
[This message has been edited by Miss-Tress007 (edited 05-09-2005).]
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01:07 AM
86GT3.4DOHC Member
Posts: 10007 From: Marion Ohio Registered: Apr 2004
Okay, being into fieros is one thing, loving them another BUT YOU TOOK 3 PICTURES OF YOU GETTING GAS. Im bad, but I think you might want to get professional help. lol Im a little concerned about your brakes though. All bolts should be tightened to pretty much as tight as you can get them by hand, and you cant overtighten it bad enough to cause any drag at all. Its possible that the caliper hadnt seated and was crooked or something.both your inner pads were worn much worse than the outers. This is a sign that the caliper slides are hanging up. Where the main part of the caliper bolts to the car, there are 2 holes with rubber bushings around them, you should be able to push the bolt holes back and fourth easily with the caliper off the car. If not, the caliper will not center properly on the rotor, and wear one pad worse, drag a little, and Im guessing this might be what caused your problems with getting the pad in and then holding the car. You might want to take the calipers off and free up the slides with a c clamp and some grease.
looks like you have done some work to that thing since picking it up. (i haven't seen all the in between threads) anyways, its nice to see that another fiero has lived to drive another day, because of a little elbow grease. Keep up the good work.
(and go get some sleep) It's not good to be up past 1:00 am =)
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01:20 AM
ZeroC Member
Posts: 1664 From: Chilliwack,BC,Canada Registered: Jan 2003
I dont know what I am more impressd with, the fact that you work on your car yourself or how well you keep if documeted on here with all the pictures. I would say I am equally impressed with both parts and would like to take the time to tell you what a good job you are doing. You have done more to your car in a few months then I have seen alot others to there cars in years. Good job and keep up the good work, hopefully everyone will get to see your car at future shows.
I'm scared stiff!! You tightened up the caliper bolts with an adjustable SPANNER???
Please tell me that isn't so!!And secondly, NEVER slacken off ANY bolts to accommadate stiffness.The brake calipers and pads are made to a very high tolerance..they have to be!!Lives are seriously at risk otherwise.If you slacken them off to accomodate the brake pads, they will fail much sooner than later.There is something fundamentally wrong if you can't get it back together without loosening, or forcing.Disasterous.Looking at the photo, it seems to me the piston is not fully retracted, and by the nature of the ebrake system, if it is not fully in,you cannot force it back by putting in the brake pads and tightening them..it will stay there, unless you follow the correct procedure.See Ogr's cave about 88 ebrake adjustments etc.And you should NEVER just change one side of ANY components, without renewing the other side at the same time.You cannot gauge tolerances with the naked eye..and shouldn't try!!! If the new side is too tight, the drag would be enough to overheat the car engine, overheat the brake fluid, warp the new rotor , destroy the pads...and if you had hit the brakes in an emergency stop, you would have been spinning like a top within milliseconds. My advice is NEVER touch brake setups as a Newcomer to car maintenance..leave it to the experts, and watch and learn from them. And finally, just one more thing to really cheer you up: I see you were brushing away the dust and debris from around the brake disc area...I hopeyou were wearing one of your facial masks!! This may all sound pretty heavy stuff, but I feel justified in putting a damper on your pleasure, in order to protect you from danger...sorry if I come over as melodramatic... fierofetish
------------------ RESPONSIBILITY WILL SOLVE EVERYTHING.USE IT ALL THE TIME !!!!.
[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 05-09-2005).]
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01:39 AM
87GTBro Member
Posts: 1223 From: Edinburg,TX,USA Registered: Oct 1999
Not only am I impressed with your mechanical aptitude, but having three arms makes it really easy to take those pictures. Good photo work on the project!
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02:24 AM
cptsnoopy Member
Posts: 2585 From: phoenix, AZ, USA Registered: Jul 2003
You’re doing great work Tress. Unfortunately you need to have someone come over to inspect your rear brakes and give you the necessary information to complete the job. There is also a small chance that you had a brake dragging and it contributed to your car overheating again. Brakes are normally simple but when you add in the e-brake system it can turn the job into a pita. You will need to learn how to back out the e-brake bolt then after installing the brake pads and calipers, how to adjust the e-brake system which will determine the proper adjustment for your rear brakes. This needs to be done before you drive your car again if you want to be safe. If you do drive your car before you have a chance to fix it then when you get where you’re going check all the brakes for high temps. If you find a brake or several brakes that are really hot that will indicate that they are out of adjustment and are possibly dragging. Good luck. I wish I could show you in person but a couple thousand miles is preventing that...
I've been thinking a bit more about this caliper...Yes!! It hurts!! Seriously.. Looking at the old caliper in the photo:
it is only worn down on the outer face.Normally, if I am not mistaken,it is the caliper piston side that wears down quicker, if the sliding guides are rusty or sticky.That is because the piston pushes against the inboard brake pad, onto the disc, which should not give against that force.So. if the guides are sticking, they won't allow the caliper to transfer the load to both sides of the disc evenly.So, if the guides are stuck, the only pad able to apply force to the disc would be the one being pushed by the caliper..and so the inside of the disc would be worn more.But it is the opposite here.The only explanation I can come up with, is that the missing bolt that held the caliper on, had allowed the caliper "bridge" for want of a better word, to flex, or even bend, meaning that the outer pad was applying uneven pressure, causing it to wear quicker.It might have bent the actual caliper permanently, so I would get it checked out. Lastly, the fact that one bolt was missing, would indicate to me that the previous person to change the pads, experienced the same problem as you, and slacken the bolts off. I would also check that the thread inside where the bolt screws in, has not been damaged by the bolt slowly working itself out.
I should add here, which I failed to do earlier, that you have shown incredible interest, perseverance and fortitude in all you have done.I take my hat off to you!! fierofetish
------------------ RESPONSIBILITY WILL SOLVE EVERYTHING.USE IT ALL THE TIME !!!!.
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07:40 AM
Fiero5 Member
Posts: 8882 From: Arecibo, PR Registered: Jun 2000
First off congrats on your continued work on and the build up(s) of your Fiero I was wondering though why you are breaking up your build up project into so many different threads? When I look to see the latest on your Fiero it is kind of hard to follow your whole build up with so many seperate threads to have to go and find to try at times to catch up or refer back to. I had a great build up thread going on my sons F&F Fiero but it got archived before I could add anything new to it at one point so I had to start a new one, so definatley keep an eye on any build up thread you have if you want to add to it at some point that it doesn't get archived. Though having said that I always thought that a very long build up thread with so many pages could be tough for some of us at times who might want to go back and look up and refer to a certain part with not knowing or remembering what page it might be on. Skitimes and BubbaJoes are a couple good examples. Too bad we don't have a way of labeling each page as to what is in each section/page somehow. Not a biggie but just a thought Cliff. Anyway....
But I have to say...Wow, you are really getting into this project, good for you. It is always so cool to see someone get into doing a Fiero as much as you are here. Your excitement and enthusiasm comes across loud and clear reading your many posts. I agree with others that doing your own work whenever possible is great and your documentation of every detail is awesome. As others have already mentioned though just make darn sure that everything is tightened back down correctly and nothing is stuck or jammed making it "feel" tight, as brakes are not something to messa round with and you don't always get a second chance to fix themj without some major bad experience happening first where you may or may not live thru it or at least hurt yourself, your beautiful car and someone else, maybe with terrible consequences. If you have to double check and then triple check if necessary then do it. You can never be too carefull, especailly if it is with brakes and it is your first time. You know what they say: It is better to be safe then sorry.
It is also become obvious that girls on the forum can get away with a lot more than us guys can at times, as I had one pic of us towing my son Jordans Fiero and parked at a gas station last summer going to the custom compact show in Harrisburg PA. The pic showed it on the tow dolly in NJ and I got rung out by quite a few for posting this one pic of it as it was at a gas station (gasp) and here you have 3 pics of it at the gas station.... with close ups!! LOL Just goes to show ya oh, and regular gas is just fine for a stock engine. Anything higher and your engine probably isn't getting any advantages from the higher octane anyway and in some cases can actually hurt and not help. Some gases can help clean your engine but don't count on it. So save your money and put it into goodies for your car. Lastly, I especially love the city at night driving pics. Those are sooo cool. Maybe you can get some outside shots of your Fiero sitting in pics in the city at night with all the night life and street and billboard lights and stuff. I bet those pics would look pretty cool!
Steve
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[This message has been edited by Fiero5 (edited 05-09-2005).]
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08:19 AM
Raydar Member
Posts: 40910 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
I'm with the other "brake people". NO fasteners should be loose. The bolt that you replaced holds the "bridge" (the front half) to the caliper. It must be tight. The bolts that hold the caliper on are Torx bolts that attach much closer to the hub. As mentioned, they go through sliders that the caliper rides on. Those sliders are notorious for sticking. They should probably be removed and cleaned, and relubricated with high temp silicone grease made specifically for brake parts. Also, the steel pins that go through the corners of the pads should be tapped in, flush with the front surface of the caliper.
The clunk that you're hearing from the right front is probably a steering rack bushing. A very common ailment that is addressed elsewhere on the forum. It's not an expensive fix. I can't address the difficulty since, amazingly, I've never had to replace one.
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10:51 AM
Snowcrash Member
Posts: 411 From: Sugar Land, TX Registered: Oct 2004
I'm going to chime in here. I'm not familiar with the 88 brake setup, but unless it differs from every other caliper I have ever ran in to, the caliper bolts should be tight. Even with new pads and rotors, the rotors shoulld spin freely. The caliper will take up the remaining slack when you depress the pedal after installation. I wonder if the Cavalier rotors are thicker that the correct rotor? If that is the case you can have them turned to the correct thickness (verify that is not thinner than the min thickness embossed on the rotor itself).
Brakes are decptively simple. The system itself is not complex, nor hard to repair. However, there is very litle room for error. This is one of the things that lack of knowledge can really get you hurt. Your *life* rides on your brakes. I can see you put alot of effort into doing things right, and are doing very well overall. I applaud your efforts and you appear to be a very fast learner. People will scrutinize all your work when posting everything online. *Don't* let it discourage you, it's all a part of learning and we are all trying to help you learn. Brakes are a big safety issue and we all want you to be safe so you can continue to enjoy your Fiero!
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11:23 AM
Indiana_resto_guy Member
Posts: 7158 From: Shelbyville, IN USA Registered: Jul 2000
The problem with the drivers side caliper is that the piston is/was not all the way into the bore. That should be corrected to properly fit and the bolts good and tight. The cooling issues, if he temp sensor (for the compuer and fan) has been replaced and the water pump is good and the thermostat is in working order along with the fan motor and relay, I would suspect the radiator may be clogged up. There may also be a hose or hoses coalsped at temprature. It truely sounds like the car is getting back it's prime! Keep it up!
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11:36 AM
stimpy Member
Posts: 8197 From: Salinas, CA Registered: Jan 2000
Agreed.. First, are you sure the rotors are identical? and 2nd, did you back the piston out... You really should reef on the brake caliper bolts iwth a good long ratchet, not an adjustable wrench (don't snap em, but you know what I mean).. And also, never do one side without doing the other side of a car, yeah, it 'looks' the same as the other, but you want to lube up the sliders of both, as to prevent this problem...
I disagree with others saying leave brakes to professionals, as they are literally the easiest 'major' thing you can fix on a car, but follow the procedures..
Is there some poor guy standing there taking pictures the whole time?
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11:48 AM
Kitskaboodle Member
Posts: 3068 From: San Jose, Ca. Registered: Nov 2004
Since you are not going to replace the drivers side rear rotor at this time, I would encourage you to spend the $15.00 and at least have it resurfaced by a local machine shop. That way, your rear brakes will at least pull evenly.
By the way...I laugh every time I see that license plate in your window (Hi!...Loser) That is sooo funny! My favorite one is "I hear the other ucky people calling you". I just love that little rabbit.....
Is there some poor guy standing there taking pictures the whole time?
I think that would be your husband...
Let me chime it that those caliper bridge bolts should be as tight as you can make them with the biggest wrench you have. If the rotor is binding then the caliper probably isn't backed in all the way. PLEASE fix this before you drive the car again. And it's possible to "load" the caliers with both pads and just slip them over the rotors. If it won't fit then maybe those cavilier rotors are not the drop in replacements that everyone claims. I would suggest The Fierostore rotors. They will come in two days. Not the cheapest, but guaranteed to fit.
Let me chime it that those caliper bridge bolts should be as tight as you can make them with the biggest wrench you have. If the rotor is binding then the caliper probably isn't backed in all the way. PLEASE fix this before you drive the car again. And it's possible to "load" the caliers with both pads and just slip them over the rotors. If it won't fit then maybe those cavilier rotors are not the drop in replacements that everyone claims. I would suggest The Fierostore rotors. They will come in two days. Not the cheapest, but guaranteed to fit.
Cheaper and quicker and easier just to let the local auto supplier get them in.. We usually get ours the same day if ordered before 3pm.. From Canadian Tire and Partsource..
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04:15 PM
USFiero Member
Posts: 4877 From: Everywhere and Middle of Nowhere Registered: Mar 2002
I think she was talking about the "e-brake" bolt/nut , being to tight, not the slider bolts or caliper bridge bolts. If you really crank down on the e-brake attachment nut, it will be like the e-brake is on!! It should be tight, but not overly tight. I agree with the others in that the the rest of bolts should be really tight.
The little dimple in the caliper should be up and down where the pad goes if I am not mistaken? I dont know it looks off to me.
That is correct. The 2 small dimples should be up and down so they match the two small bumps on the back of the brake pads. Those have to mesh in order for the parking brake to work. That could also cause some of the clearance problems with getting the pads installed.
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03:08 PM
May 11th, 2005
Whuffo Member
Posts: 3000 From: San Jose, CA Registered: Jul 2003
Okay, let me put all of your minds at ease.....I am NOT driving around on loose calipers, brakes or rotors. 1) I made sure to tighten the bolts on the calipers with a breaker bar and 2) I had a couple of the neighborhood mechanics double-check the brake installation to make sure everything was okay before I took her on the road.
We didn't take any pics of the tightening part, but rest assured that I did not leave the bolts loose at all on the brakes. We actually over-tightened them with the breaker bar and ended up locking the rotors in place the first time around.
The only reason that I had to loosen the bolts on the rear passenger side to fit the brake pads in was because I'd overtightened them to begin with and it seems that the replacement rotor that I'd gotten from the 95 Cavalier is a bit thicker than the one for a Fiero, so the brake pad installation was a bit more of a squeeze at first. I didn't have that problem at all on the other rotors, and installation of the brake pads went pretty smoothly.
I appreciate your concern and worries---believe me, I'm more than paranoid about making sure that bolts are as tight as possible on cars, especially when it comes to brakes. I made sure to have someone who's done brake repairs before check things over before I drove the car. He even bled the brakes for me and test drove it a bit to double check it all. I'm planning on taking it all apart again and checking everything based on the posts and suggestions that I've gotten. I did notice that my e-brake doesn't work (it never really has consistently) so I'll be taking a closer look at that as well.
So thanks again for the suggestions, words of encouragement and advice. I'm really touched that so many of you are worried about me and my little car---and you don't even know me. I honestly wouldn't have a Fiero in the first place and certainly wouldn't have gotten this far with the car and being able to actually drive it if it weren't for all of you on the Forum.
Part of the reason that I chronicle everything in "The Hottie" Diaries the way I do is to try to give back to the community through providing a bit of entertainment with my posts and also to try to detail the steps I've gone through in making some repairs to the car. As much as I've been helped by people on the forum who've patiently answered all of my stupid questions--I wanted to provide a resource of sorts for others who may be a bit intimidated by the prospect of doing any repairs to these little cars themselves. When I first started, I didn't know a thing about cars, but after having the help and support of people on PFF, I've torn apart an engine and reassembled it and have gotten my car on the road without having to spend a fortune.
It's kind of hard to adequately portray your appreciation to someone over the internet with just written words and have it come across as sincerely as it would if you were talking to the person face-to-face, but just take this as my wholehearted attempt at trying to say "Thanks" to all of you for all your help and encouragement. Like I said before, you guys are the best!
Okay--group hug and mushy-stuff over with--we now return you to your regularly-scheduled "The Hottie" Diary Episode---Now, back to the story! LOL
----The Saga Continues----
Alright, where were we? Oh, yeah. Saturday night after taking "The Hottie" on the road for an extended run and really letting her loose, we ran into a bit of an issue when the temp started rising again. We'd figure out that we hadn't completed the process of burping the cooling system when we did it the first time, so first thing Sunday morning, we went out to top things off and make sure to get rid of all of the air bubbles.
I pulled out my trusty printout of Ogre's coolant filling system instructions and start following everything step-by-step. This time, I realize that I hadn't filled the engine past the hose in the thermostat housing like I was supposed to (perfect place for air to get into the system), and I also hadn't been very careful about filling the reservoir tank so as not to let air bubbles in there as well. So this time I made sure to take my time and do everything according to the printout.
While I'm working on this, our cousin Brian and Onion (he's one of the neighborhood funny guys--you'll recall him from the "Big-Mike-sits-on-a-bench-which-breaks-under-his-weight" episode with the Popeye's chicken that occurred while we were trying to change the water pump LOL) come over and keep us company during the process. <Translation: They plopped down on the porch and started in on a comedy routine that sufficiently distracted me to make this take a lot longer than it was supposed to. hehe>
After finally finishing the "burping" process, I got to the part where I'm supposed to put in the thermostat. Well, the last time I tried putting in a thermostat the car ran hot, so I decided to leave it out. I also left the temperature sensor unplugged so the fan would kick in and stay on (as an extra precaution). If you can't tell, I'm pretty paranoid about the overheating thing by now, and I hate seeing the temperature gauge rise above 150 or so. LOL I'm still recovering from my last traumatic experience that led to my car being pushed home and my having to have the head reworked and the head gasket replaced, so bear with me a bit. hehe
So, after insuring that there was no "renegade thermostat" to throw the engine into overheating status, I took the car out for a quick spin to test everything out. It started up fine, I backed her out and took off down the block:
I didn't go too far. Just far enough to give her a bit of gas and keep an eye on the temperature gauge while making sure the fan jumped on and stayed on as backup. After tearing down the street and making the block, here I am coming back:
Isn't that a sweet picture?! Man, that car looks sooo cool on the road it's amazing! It felt good too. Everything was responding okay and I didn't get any drag/sputtering/shuddering/bucking or strange noises from the engine. The car accelerated and responded great. I was psyched 'cause I figured I'd fixed the problem. So now all that was left was to lock up the house and take her on a more extended test drive. So I parked her in the driveway; turned off the car and went inside to lock up and grab my purse so we could go for a test run.
Came back out about 5 minutes later; jumped in the car and tried to start her up.
Nothing.
Tried to start her up again.
Nothing.
Tried it again. Same thing. The little buzz would come on (indicating that the fuel pump was working); the lights would come on; but the car wouldn't start.
I knew I had gas in the car---hell, we'd just filled her up last night. There wasn't a leak anywhere and she'd just been running while I'd gone through the tedious process of burping the air bubbles out of the cooling system and driving her around the block. So what was wrong now? Ignition module? What?
Aaaarrrrrggghhhh! Would this ever end?! I couldn't believe this was happening! Was there some sort of rule that said you had to sacrifice so many hours of suffering and endure a certain amount of mental cruelty and torture as an offering to the Fiero gods in order to have your car run with no problems for a continuous amount of time? I mean, come on---I'd just gotten through replacing a blown head gasket (in addition to several other parts) when I found out that I needed to replace the rotor and brakes; then when I finally got a chance to drive the car for more than 5 minutes, it started to overheat again. What was going on here?!
---cont---
[This message has been edited by Miss-Tress007 (edited 05-11-2005).]
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01:16 AM
Miss-Tress007 Member
Posts: 541 From: New Orleans, LA, USA--now in Greensboro, GA thanks to Hurricane Katrina Registered: Feb 2004
--cont-- So, I turned to the forum and asked my trusty PFF Tech Guys what the problem was. After describing the problem in detail in my post, I got the answer---FUEL FILTER! Okay, I could deal with that. Replacing a fuel filter, I was told, wasn't a big deal. So, after checking online, I got Big Mike to drive me over to (yup, you guessed it) AutoZone to pick up a new fuel filter and PCV valve (which they recommended changing at the same time).
No problem. I could handle this. It made perfect sense that this was the problem. After all, the car had been sitting up for almost 10 years before I got it and from the looks of things I'd found so far, the previous owners weren't too keen on keeping things up to date and changing out filters, so I felt pretty confident that this would solve the problem.
<Deep breath.> Okay. After coming back with the fuel filter and PCV valve, I double-checked the Haynes and Chilton's manuals for information on how to change out the darn thing. They weren't exactly a source of a wealth of detailed information, so I got instructions from the Tech section of the forum on what to do. Indiana_Resto_Guy also gave me a test to perform to check and see if it was the fuel filter or not--pour a little bit of gas into the middle of the air filter where the fuel injector system is, and see if the car would start. Well, I didn't have any gas lying around, so I figured I'd take the filter off and get some from that to use. In any event, I'd at the very least have another new part that I could be confident in when I got done.
So we jack up the car and I start looking underneath to check out the location of the fuel filter. I was told it was on the passenger side, so I was on my hands and knees, looking under the car, when this guy drives up and asks what we're working on. Now, he'd been over before when Herman (aka Meathead) had been checking the car out initially, so I knew who he was. This was also the guy who'd told me that he knew of another fiero that someone wanted to give away and that he'd check on it for me.
So we're outside trying to get this done before it gets dark and his guy drives up. He gets out and tells me that he picked up the other fiero that he was telling me about and that it was over at his house. I asked him what year and he said it looked just like mine. "Well, they all look just like mine---do you know anything at all about the car?" "No, I just know it looks just like that one." Okay, at this point, I decide that I don't have the time right now to go into this with this guy and I get the feeling he's trying to sell me a car that someone gave to him--which I'm not in the mood for right now, considering the problems I'm having with this one, so I just kind of grunt something about getting around to looking at it later and lean over to look under the car again.
Well, he asks me again what we're working on---so like a complete idiot I say that I'm trying to change the fuel filter because the car won't start. So, he does the obligatory surprised look and says, "Who, you?" (Ggggrrrr---okay, I'm NOT in the mood for the "but-you're-a-girl" routine right now) and I say, "yup, me" and lean down to continue checking under the car. As I'm doing this, my hair falls into the dirt and he comes over and says, "Oh, no baby, you can't do that" (wtf? Baby?????), "Look, you're getting all dirty. Move over and let me do that. You'll never be able to get that off and change that by yourself."
Okay, I admit that I wasn't dressed in my "work clothes", but a t-shirt and jeans weren't exactly "dressed up" and I could put my hair in a ponytail to keep it out of the dirt and my eyes. Besides, I could wash my hair when I was done.
So I took a deep breath and said sweetly, "No, I've got it. I've been doing alot of work on the car already (run down the list of what I have done so far), so I'll be fine. Thanks for the help."
Did he take the hint? Noooooo, of course not. He stays put and watches me for a bit as I look for the fuel filter under the passenger side.
Him--"It's not on that side. It should be on the same side as the gas tank."
Me--"My sources (and the manual) say that it's on the passenger side. I just can't see it because the car needs to go up a bit more."
Him--"Here, move over and let me try."
Me---<getting a bit more aggravated at this point> "I found it--right where they said it would be."
So I try to maneuver myself underneath the car to try and loosen the screws on the fuel filter. The car isn't jacked up very high to begin with, and there's not alot of room underneath, so I can't really get a good grip on the bolt to loosen it---not to mention the fact that it's probably not been changed since the car was manufactured in '88, so it's a bit hard to turn. I don't have any PB Blaster, just WD40, so I spray some on the bolt and crawl out from underneath the car.
Mr. Helpful is still standing there, so he asks what's up. I tell him that the bolt is a bit hard to come off because it's been there so long, so I'll let the WD40 soak in while I check it over to see how it screws out.
From what I could see, one side of the filter (the side closest to the fuel tank) would screw off pretty easily if I could get it loosened, but the other side looked a bit more weird. There wasn't really any place for you to just twist it off because of the bracket holding it in place, so I needed to find a way to stabilize one side while I twisted the other side.
Well, this guy decides that the reason why I can't get the filter off is because I'm not strong enough to turn the bolt (and I have no clue what I am doing), so he just bulldozes his way under the car and starts asking me to hand him wrenches. I hand him the tool and then go over to the other side of the car and get down on the ground so I can see what he's doing. I figure I'm not going to let him work on my car without me watching what he's doing.
So he's under the car and he grabs the wrench and starts trying to loosen the end of the filter on the driver's side. After wrestling with it for a bit, he finally gets it loose and disconnects it. Some gas comes out and he points to it and tells me that there's nothing wrong with my fuel filter because there's gas coming out of it. So I tell him that as long as we have it off, we might as well replace it.
Now, I'm not too keen on this guy screwing around with my car. I've gotten a bit overprotective of her after all of the work I've put into it, so I don't want anyone else touching anything unless I completely trust them. I don't even know this guy--I've only seen him once before--and we haven't exactly hit it off because of the "girly you can't do comments" he's made since pulling up in front of my house. I've tried giving hints and saying outright that I don't need his help, but he doesn't take the hint and well, here we are, underneath the car with me trying not to come across as rude and unappreciative by asking him to put the tools down and get out from under my car. Since he's gotten the first part loose, he then turns to the other side of the filter. <fingers crossed>
Mr. Helpful couldn't really see what he was doing from his angle, so he ended up grabbing the fuel line with the grips and TWISTING IT BACK AND FORTH!!! Nooooooooo! "STOP! You're twisting the fuel line!" I yelled at him. He'd turned it back and forth and put a kink in it in just a matter of seconds:
Once I said that, he said something about "Oh, this gas it burning me", jumped out from under the car and said, "You can take it from here, right?" then jumped in his car and left. That was the last straw! I was so frustrated!
At this point, it seemed as if the stupid fuel filter was actually working (according to Mr. Helpful)--so if that wasn't the problem, why wasn't the car starting?--my fuel line now had a kink in it; I couldn't get the stupid fuel filter off to put on a new one--and I still had to try and figure out what was wrong with the car.
I couldn't believe this! It was starting to get dark, so since I didn't have much daylight left, I decided to just put everything back together and try it again in the morning.
I managed to get everything reattached, underneath, and straightened out the fuel line as much as I could. I dried up all of the gas that had leaked out of the filter, then lowered the car and put the tools away.
Since I was still out, I figured I might as well change the PCV Valve:
The old one looked pretty gross:
so I figured that was a good thing and the day wasn't a total loss.
Here's the new one installed:
<sigh> I was so bummed, angry and frustrated. Big Mike and Brick had just come up and were sitting on the steps a few houses down and asked me if I'd gotten the filter replaced. I told them no and recounted my experience with the helpful guy. They were pretty angry that he'd bulldozed his way into trying to help, but obviously didn't know what he was doing. Everyone else on the block have pretty much been spectators (or in some cases, consultants) at some point or another in my quest to repair the car, so they've gotten to be kind of protective of me and my little car. They were upset at the way the guy treated me and pretty much told me that I should have been rude if need be and told him not to touch the car.
Part of the reason I wasn't just an outright b*tch and told him to shove off is because I'd gotten help from so many people who didn't know me and whom I didn't know during this process that I didn't want to seem ungrateful or rude. But this guy twisting my fuel line--combined with the fact that the car still wouldn't start and at this point I wasn't too sure that the fuel filter would even come off---really got me depressed.
For the first time since I started working on the car, I didn't spend alot of time on the forum or looking up information or checking the manual for instructions before doing some planned repair. I posted my "progress" (such as it was) on the tech section, then decided to drown my sorrows.
I ate way too much, and went to sleep early---exhausted, frustrated and hoping that Monday I'd be able to figure things out and finally get my "Hottie" on the road.
To be continued.......
--Tress
[This message has been edited by Miss-Tress007 (edited 05-11-2005).]
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01:19 AM
cptsnoopy Member
Posts: 2585 From: phoenix, AZ, USA Registered: Jul 2003
sorry about the helpful dude. i am sure that he really wanted to help but..... oh well.
the offer to send you a fuel line still stands. however it is used and you may want to invest in a new one. you could use this one until you are able to get a new one if it would help. I think shipping would be around 8 to 10 dollars.