I'm considering doing some autocross but am not sure what class a SBC Fiero would be put in. I downloaded the SCCA rules (Greek, anyone?) and it looks like a V8 swap will put me completely out of the solo street class. I'm not sure though because the rule book was a little hard to follow. Anybody have any experience with this they want to share? Thanks.

I think a small block will put you under the A-Mod class in which case you will get stomped (A-Mod= formula ford etc) .... lemme go check the rules again real quick

edit: Wait I'm wrong, I think A-Modified is aero package. I just looked up the class and it appears that you will be in Street touring - U or a handicapped modified class. Better talk to a V-8 guy who autocrosses

[This message has been edited by RandomTask (edited 06-22-2005).]

SM-2?

quote Originally posted by Formula88: SM-2?

I was hoping but this little rule shows up:

D. Drivetrain and related components (induction, ignition, fuel systems,
etc.) are unrestricted except for the following limitations:

1. Engine block must be a production unit manufactured and
badged the same as the original standard or optional engine
for that model. Badges that exist as marketing aliases for the
manufacturer will be recognized as equivalents. Swaps
involving makes related only at a corporate level are not
recognized as equivalents. Models produced as a joint venture
between manufacturers may utilize any engine from any
partner in the joint venture, provided that an engine from the
desired manufacturer was a factory option in that particular
model (e.g. Eagle Talon available originally with either a
Mitsubishi or Chrysler engine, may use any motor from
Chrysler or Mitsubishi). This allows engine blocks
manufactured as production units for sale in other countries
such as Japan or Germany.

"Eagle Talon available originally with either a
Mitsubishi or Chrysler engine, may use any motor from
Chrysler or Mitsubishi"

The V6 Fiero comes with a Chevy engine. Does that mean any Chevy engine would work, or only one available in a Fiero?

Someone should build a fiero for Drifting !...I bet you wont even need the e-brake throwing it drifting through corners

quote Originally posted by Formula88: The V6 Fiero comes with a Chevy engine. Does that mean any Chevy engine would work, or only one available in a Fiero?

Exactly. I can't figure it out either. First it says this:

"Swaps involving makes related only at a corporate level are not
recognized as equivalents."

Then this:

"Eagle Talon available originally with either a
Mitsubishi or Chrysler engine, may use any motor from
Chrysler or Mitsubishi".

My gut is telling me they mean no Chevy in a Pontiac, though, for SM2.

I remember reading a while back when I was looking into it, that the engine had to be in the same family of engines... I mean a 2.8 could be replaced with another 60 degree V6, like a 3.1 or 3.4L. Or if you had a Camaro with a stock 305, you could put in a 350 or other SBC. This would still keep you in the correct class. I think a V6 to a V8 though your outta luck.

This guy appears to me in SM2 with a V8.

http://www.sdsefi.com/features/nov02fiero.htm

Still looking...

I was put in D mod but was later told I could run in street mod this was in Canada but I'm sure the rules are the same because we have guys who run in the USA as well as Canada

Well, I heard back from the local SCCA group and they are saying most likely SM2. It would be a pity if a semi-daily driver couldn't even get into a street class. Thanks guys.

I posted a link to this thread on the "Fiero Racing" list. Hopefully a few of those guys can pop over here and lend a hand, like Doug Chase and some of the PFF/Fiero Racing guys.

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85GT 5spd MSD Everything,4.9 With Nitrous. www.captfiero.com

as long as the engine is made by GM you can run SM2. It is not that bad of a class. It is pretty much any thing goes as long as it is a street car with full interior on dot tires. unfortunately the fiero can't seem to get away from the miata's which are hard to beat. but some of us are trying it anyway.

quote Originally posted by keithcar72: as long as the engine is made by GM you can run SM2. It is not that bad of a class. It is pretty much any thing goes as long as it is a street car with full interior on dot tires. unfortunately the fiero can't seem to get away from the miata's which are hard to beat. but some of us are trying it anyway.

With a SBC or 4.9 a Fiero should stomp a Miata.

quote Originally posted by keithcar72: as long as the engine is made by GM you can run SM2.

What he said.

The language about "Swaps involving makes related only at a corporate level are not recognized as equivalents," means that just because GM owns part of Subaru doesn't mean you can swap a Subaru engine into your car.

Of course this will continue to get fuzzier now that more and more platform sharing is happening with GM (and other manufacturers).

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Doug Chase
Chase Race
Custom roll cage and exhaust fabrication

SM2 - The Fiero comes with a Chevy V-6 so any Chevy engine can be used and from talking to the guys that I autocross with you can use any GM motor in the car for SM2. I'm running in CSP until I can get my Northstar or 3.8 SC conversion done.

Joel Harleman

quote Originally posted by CentralFloridaFieros: With a SBC or 4.9 a Fiero should stomp a Miata.

Yeah...in a straight line...

Just watch out for the ones with 302's stuffed in 'em.

[This message has been edited by Silicoan86 (edited 06-23-2005).]

Thanks to all you guys for the clarifications! +'s all around!

I've heard the Miata is a bear in autocross. Sure, I want to win but if I can make a good showing, talk cars and have fun I will be happy.

The first thing you should do is to join the FieroRacingList.

There are some autocrossers (and former autocrossers that are now rallying and road racing) on the RacingList that have been involved with Fiero autocrossing since when the car was still in showrooms!

Perhaps (in addition to classing questions) they could help you with such things as - how to set up your suspension - what alignment specs would be a good place to start (stock settings will probably oversteer into corners, and push out of them) - what tire pressures to use - shock settings - spring rates - and even a driving tip or two (if you just ask) Or you could just check the archives on that list!

G

Awesome! Thanks.

Okay, let me first say I didn't read ALL of the posts cause it's late and I'm tired. But...

First and foremost autocrossing is a driver's sport. It has less to do with the car than it does with YOUR driving skill. If you've never autocrossed your'e gonna get stomped no matter what class you run in. There is a timeframe involved with a learning curve. You will only live up to your car's full potential after you get enough seat time. There is no other substitute. Period!

So don't worry about the classification. Just go and have a good time. Find a good local club. Listen to the advice others give you. Have an open mind to what they tell you to do. Some of it will sound contradictory to what you have come to know as truth. Give it a chance. ie: don't focus on the next set of cones. Drive slower to go faster. Slow down BEFORE you have to in corners. etc. etc.

There are other clubs besides the SCCA too so don't give up on autocrossing if you find you don't like the SCCA'a style.

Fieros are very competitive. I just bought my first Fiero and raced it for the first time in December. It has a 2.8 and an auto. Yes an auto. I'm still looking for a local parts car to swipe a manual transmission from. The car dyno'ed at 99.6 hp. The springs were cut so low that there is practically no movement in the suspension. The shocks are 10 year old Monroe's. All the tie rods are worn out and sloppy. And I'm still running faster than Z06's. Your biggest problem will probably be a lack of traction unless you have a REAL LSD behind that V8. If you want to check my results and see what kind of cars I'm beating, check out our website. I think I've been in the top 20 list all year. There may have been a couple months early on where I was still sorting it out and getting used to the car. Keep in mind now, I only drive this car off the trailer and race it once a month. It isn't street legal anymore. So I'm still learning how to drive it. Wait till I get better springs, shocks, 4 speed and more hp. I should be battling for Top Time of Day honors every month. Fieros rock at the autocross. Keep your back tires from spinning and you'll run well no matter what class they put you in. Don't forget, there are lots of guys that have been doing this for many years and they can do amazing things in a car. I've been doing it since September of 2001. 87 4dr Civic -> 88 Camaro w/383 -> 2002 Camaro SS -> 85 Fireo

Chuck Peterson

2002Z28 welcome to the forum. First, how does the Fiero compare to that 2002 Z28 of yours? I autocrossed both my '88 Fiero GT (automatic) and my '00 Camaro Z28 (automatic) and I consistently got 2-3 second better times in the Camaro than the Fiero. The Fiero would push very bad out of turns. Plus, I would keep it in 1st gear the entire time and in some areas I would almost redline it. The Camaro, though it felt like a landboat, performed better because in just about every turn the rear wheels would lose traction and help me around the turn, and leaving it in first gear I would only get to maybe 5000 rpms or so.

I'm happy with the way that the Fiero performed though, it got times consistent with a guy who had a '92 MR2. In my Camaro I beat the 2 Miatas that came out that day, got the same times as Mini Coopers, and only lost to an instructor who was in a '94 Z28 (he got times 3-4 seconds better than me), and a WRX STi and a EVO.

I can only imagine how a V8 Fiero would own at autocross. I've heard that a 2.8 to a modern aluminum V8 has almost no weight difference, so the good weight distribution remains. I bet a V8 Fiero would hang with some of the best cars out there, well, as long as the driver was good enough. I would think that if someone went to the trouble to make a V8 Fiero they would be a very good driver.

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I am the signature virus, please put me in your signature so I can spread

What class you are asked to race in is usually up to the club you're racing with, Gene Hudson and I both run auto cross in very similar 4.9 powered Fieros with the Central KY SCCA, here they make us run in EM class, other places/clubs let us run SM2. Doesn't really matter to us, we're always racing against each other and our selves.

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Ron
Freedom isn't Free, it's always earned.
My imagination is the only limiting factor to my Fiero. Ooops forgot about the money issue.

The Fiero is actually better than the SS was except for courses with long straights for hp advantaged cars. The SS is of course MUCH faster than the Fiero in a straight line. I only bought the Fiero because I raced on a set of VERY hard Victoracer tires and lost control into a concrete light pole and fire hydrant in November. Now I have a trailered dedicated race vehicle. It used to belong to FastJeff57 in PA. I'm not sure if he used to be a member here or not. The SS is almost finished being rebuilt. It has a solid 35mm front sway bar, 1.5" lowering springs and long tube headers with an offroad Y-pipe. The bar and springs were the best mods. No more plowing front end.

The Fiero is gutted and runs on a set of Hoosiers but needs a new suspension, engine & tranny (4speed swap).

[This message has been edited by 2002z28ssconv (edited 06-24-2005).]

Thanks for the additional input, guys. I had been wondering how I would get practice in. Like probably everybody else in the world, I consider myself a pretty good driver. However, I do understand that I must get more familiar with my car in in an autocross-type environment in order to be competitive. Any suggestions on how to practice?

My V8 is a mild one at 228 hp at the wheels. I do have aluminum heads so I think that helps the weight a tad at best probably. I run full poly, swaybars and solid cradle mounts. 17" wheels with 215s on front and 235s on the rear seem to be helping a lot in the corners. Compared to how it handled before I did all the suspension stuff, it is simply a different car. I expect it to perform pretty well if I can just keep it between the cones. Still, I haven't really learned the car's limits as far as when exactly I can expect it to break loose in the rear, how fast I can effectively go into a corner, etc. This is why I would like to find some kind of practice venue. Thanks again for all the tips. Autocrossing sounds fun as hell and I can't wait to get started.