Well I will post details later and when I have it out I will take pics.

4.9 V8 plus new straight exhaust plus Isuzu 5spd + Centerforce Dual Friction clutch = Boom Clacka Lacka Lacka.

I was not even doing a hard shift I was on the way to the exhaust shop to get my exhaust put into a final format. Welded and new pipe rather than clamps. I was taking it nice and easy, shifted from 1st to 2nd rolling thought a light and as I lifted up on the clutch BANG CRUNCH CRUNCH MUNCH and felt the rear wheels try to lock up on me. I manged to get it into netral and push it to a side street. But even starting up the motor with the clutch engaged spinning the input shaft it makes some serious bad sounds.

Well out comes the tranny.

Ugh.

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85GT 5spd MSD Everything,4.9 With Nitrous. www.captfiero.com

I bet it's the centerforce clutch. Go with SPEC if it is.

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Happiness isn't around the corner...
Happiness IS the corner.
ZZ4 Powered !!

Clutch is fine. Clutch still works I was able to get it into gear and get it to back up.

It is the trans that has an internal explosion.

In gear if you rock it, it will skip and you can hear the chunked gears.

Clutch is working fine.

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85GT 5spd MSD Everything,4.9 With Nitrous. www.captfiero.com

The Isuzu 5spd is known to have a weak second gear when coupling it up to a conversion engine with a lot more torque than the standard V6.

quote Originally posted by California Kid: The Isuzu 5spd is known to have a weak second gear when coupling it up to a conversion engine with a lot more torque than the standard V6.

Yep and it was a 1-2 shift that it exploded on.

BUT

What has me baffled is I was at 2500rpms and not even 1/8 of the throttle. Just cruising nice and smooth.

The last time I drove it, I was not hard on it at all either.

I do admit to making a few hard shifts from 1st to 2nd a time or 2 over the past month, but nothing too nuts.

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85GT 5spd MSD Everything,4.9 With Nitrous. www.captfiero.com

Failure mode starts with small micro stress cracks, which get bigger as time goes on, it's just a matter of time before it won't take any more load. Once the failure mode starts, it's not totally dependant on max loads to finish the job.

As much as I don't want to, I am going to have to go back to 225's rather than the 245's the extra bite on the ground has proven to explode trannys with "MY" driving style.

I love the look, I love the traction and the ability to roll onto the throttle in 1st gear and have it hunker down and go like mad, but at the cost of replacing tranny's every few months I might not be enjoying it as much as I wish I could be.

This is my 5th tranny in this car.

1 auto,
4, 4spds and now a
5spd.
UGH.

Hey I have a broken Isuzu in my garage. The "snout" broke. The rest is intact. My engine doesnt have enough torque to twist gears.

I have a 5spd Isuzu sitting here that was removed from a car with a cutting torch and they cut the arm that the shift cable attaches to. So I do have at least good guts here.

The Isuzu's are usually around 100 bucks CDN about (85 USD) so I am going to find one and buy another one to have as spare. I am just going to start stock piling them and find out the fastest way to swap them. Should be down to about 6hrs maybe 4 at this rate.

I guess I am just ranting to vent a little.

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85GT 5spd MSD Everything,4.9 With Nitrous. www.captfiero.com

Every Isuzu I've blown up has done it under light acceleration. I've killed 5 Isuzu transmissions.

So it looks like my best bet is to just get quick about changing them and get a stock pile ready. At least until I find a local 3.32 gearset and swap back to the 4spd.

Ugh well I have spent about an hour on it, just came in for a drink. About to pull the trans out now. Got hte 2 top housing bolts done, just need the last bell housing bolts and the tranny mounts and she is on the ground. Kinda curious to crack it open and see what I broke. I have never taken a tranny apart before.

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85GT 5spd MSD Everything,4.9 With Nitrous. www.captfiero.com

You'll probably find every tooth gone on 2nd gear. Thats what happened on every one of my transmissions.

quote Originally posted by FieroMaster88: You'll probably find every tooth gone on 2nd gear. Thats what happened on every one of my transmissions.

Don't say that, you'll worry me.

Hopefully the 40'000 mile tranny that I have in my car will hold up for a little while.

Eric

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Used is such a harsh term. . . I perfer "Previously obsessed over" ;)
88 base coupe: Back on the road. "She thinks my Tractor's sexy. . . . . "
Wait. . . Did I just say I can't wait to do more work on my Fiero?. . .what, am I retarded?

quote Said by Crazy Dave "You can take Steve out of the trailer park, but you can't take the trailer park out of Steve."

quote Originally posted by Racingman24: Don't say that, you'll worry me. Hopefully the 40'000 mile tranny that I have in my car will hold up for a little while. Eric

Well, I havent killed one with the 4.9 yet.

Don't take this as a flame, because I love a stick.
There is no way I would put one of the sticks available for our cars behind an engine swap.
I beat on my car any time I am in it, and I KNEW I would go through several transmissions a year with a stick.
Besides the hassle of changing them, I could not stand the thought of it breaking down someplace away from home.
I used a 4T60E, but not out of the Caddy, as the shifts are way to soft. The 3.06 final drive combined with the stall converter lets it leave hard and it is still fun to drive.
I am proud of the durability of my car and will drive it anywhere and beat on it at the same time.

Good luck with your ordeal.

Gene

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87 Notchie 4.9 with Delta Cam, Shaved Heads and lots of tedious porting
87 SE 3.4TDC swap almost done (when it gets warmer out)
86 GT waiting for 3800SC swap
87 Notchie Caddy 472 longitudinal coming soon

Well it got dark much faster than expected. So I only got to play with the car for another 45min before I had to pack up and come in. (garage is full of stuff, so I am doing this outside in the driveway)

I got stuck fighting with the forward mount and 2 of the bell housing bolts. What should have taken 5min took me better part of 1/2 hour.

I will attempt to find out what bolts to remove to split the tranny tomorrow.

There seems to be a bunch of bolts that I should leave in???

I have 2 options. Wait and try to find a good used replacement Isuzu, or take the 2 that I have and make one good one.

The 2 that I have are both around 60,000 mile trannys. I can probably get a higher mileage one for about $85 USD (100 CDN) As wrecked or poor condition 4 banger cars with 5 spds usually go for $100-$200.

Anyone have any tips on rebuilding or taking apart a 5spd.

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85GT 5spd MSD Everything,4.9 With Nitrous. www.captfiero.com

Im confused?
why are you sticking with a tranny you know is going to fail???

Fierophrek has gone through 3 isuzu's on his mildly ported 2.8. I gave him a 5 spd getrag and then his motor went up.

Have you thought about using a different tranny???

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Kameradschaft durch Blut und Eisen
Se avanzo; segualo. Se mi ritiro; uccidalo. Se muoio; avenge me! È
migliore vivere un giorno come leone che cento anni come pecora
Political Correctness is a religion and I am a nonbeliever

The Isuzu has the best gearing for the 4.9 and for most V8's for that matter. Next best would be the 3.32 gears in a late model case 4spd. There are lots of people running the Isuze on V8's and not having failures. I was hoping that with a mild V8 like the 4.9 I would be fine. I am going to install my 2nd Isuzu and if that one blows I will park the car until I find a 3.32 gearset locally for a decent price.

But I am not here to agrue the reasoning.

I just want to get my car back on the road.

On a P.S. agreement with you.

If I had a getrag I would probably install it, and then go look for some really big wheels and tires. To offset the higher revs the 5spd getrag would give me on the highway.

I have some pics to post so I will be back later with pics.

Damn, that mount looks like the one I have to replace. My clutch just went on my Fiero, so it's off the road till next spring now. Tried to replace it last sunday but one tranny mount wasn't coming off, so it needs to be cut off and replaced, center screw was turning with the nut.

As for your tranny problems, I'd also suggest a getrag also from a Fiero or cavalier with Rodney's kit. I know someone who has personally tore apart a 4:10, & 2 econo's (3.32) with his V8 and since he's put in the getrag, it's handled about 5 tempertatrums . He has broken 2 axels though but they are cheaper and easier to replace.

Here's the second econo fait, shifting into second and then KABOOM!

If you put the econo gears into a later model 3.65 case you end up with the strongest Fiero tranny and the best gears for a V8.

THe pics looks like an 84 case that decided to spat its guts out like I did to 3 of the 84 trannys.

Well who was betting on 2nd gear. DING DING DING Winner.

So I called up my tranny guy and he was not busy tonight so he said he would make a house call and we could shoot the breeze about my V8 Fiero. He came by and we took the the old tranny totally apart. I managed to know only blow 2nd gear, but the intermediate gear was smooth. Every single tooth on it was gone. I was amazed that the car was able to back up under its own power into my driveway. It came home on a flat deck, but I backed it up to the garage to start the tear down.

I made the cuts in the new tranny tonight and prepped it to go into the car tomorrow first thing. I should have the car back up and running tomorrow night. Now all I got to do is find myself a 9-5 job and I am set.

We have some transmissions out here at 'pick a part' eh Cap - Want me to take a look for ya?

Steve

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quote Originally posted by The Funkmaster: We have some transmissions out here at 'pick a part' eh Cap - Want me to take a look for ya? Steve

Thanks for the offer, but

This is the one I am installing. I spent an hour clearencing the bellhousing last night and getting it ready for install this am.

Its got a new shift arm, new axle seals and all ready to go. Ended up being a gift from a fellow club member.

See, now had you not put in such a torque happy motor and just went with a turbo four, you wouldn't have these problems

(that's a joke, don't get mad).

Good luck with the new trans though. How well do you think the case of the 4 spd's are BTW? I'm planning on putting a 4 spd in my car and I was wanting to use the 3.65 case, but with a 4:10 final drive.

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AIM= Fish100770
96 Saturn SL2 Turbo (evil SL2)

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quote Originally posted by cooguyfish: See, now had you not put in such a torque happy motor and just went with a turbo four, you wouldn't have these problems (that's a joke, don't get mad). Good luck with the new trans though. How well do you think the case of the 4 spd's are BTW? I'm planning on putting a 4 spd in my car and I was wanting to use the 3.65 case, but with a 4:10 final drive.

the v6 4speed case is one of the strongest - many including me swaer by the 4speed as being the strongest fiero tranny - the differential seems to be its weak link -- i keep telling people that if someone has a 4speed differential i may be aboe to find another LSD that can be modified to fit

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: the v6 4speed case is one of the strongest - many including me swaer by the 4speed as being the strongest fiero tranny - the differential seems to be its weak link -- i keep telling people that if someone has a 4speed differential i may be aboe to find another LSD that can be modified to fit

If I buy the 4.10 four speed I'm looking at, all I really want off it is the 4.10 FD, (I'm a little transmission illiterate right now BTW) but anyways, would the differential be on that, or would it still be on the transmission. Either way, when I find my 3.65 and 4.10, I'll supply a differential, if I can. LMK

People are always talking bad about how centerforce clutch's slip. Looks like a slipping clutch would have been a lot better than a broken trans. Look's like the clutch hooked pretty well to me.

Mark

Hey Capt, are you waiting for a fiero econo trans. or just any with a 3.32 FD. I put the citation 3.32 gears in mine as you know and 4th is geared almost IDENTICAL to 5th in the getrag, so it doesnt have quite as high top gear as the izuzu but even with my turbo, it doesnt really seem all that busy at 80mph. BUT you dont have to shift as quick or as often. Just a thought.

[This message has been edited by Rhino88gt (edited 09-15-2005).]

quote Originally posted by cooguyfish: See, now had you not put in such a torque happy motor and just went with a turbo four, you wouldn't have these problems (that's a joke, don't get mad). Good luck with the new trans though. How well do you think the case of the 4 spd's are BTW? I'm planning on putting a 4 spd in my car and I was wanting to use the 3.65 case, but with a 4:10 final drive.

First off just to set the record straight

84 4cyl used a 4spd Munice with a weak case but great gears. 3.32 or 4.10 Extreme Highway Speed or Extreme Drag Race take your pic.
85-86.5 V6 used a super great case, probably the strongest stock Fiero Case ever put in a Fiero. But it had a mediocre gearset of 3.65 not enough for drag racing, and too short for 150mph jaunts on the highway or even a 100mph cruising speed. Hell at 70mph I think it revs too high.

So everyone with extreme power motors, goes out and finds a wrecked 84 car for cheap prays that the stock 20year ago tranny is still in it.

Rips out the tranny junks the car and pulls out the gearset.

Then they go find some kid that wrapped his 85-86GT SE with the 4spd around a tree and snags the tranny from it.

You take out the icky 3.65 gearset and install either the 3.32 or 4.10 gearset. With the 3.32, a 130mph cruising speed is 3900rpms. 1850 or so per 60 mph with a 26" tall tire.

Now with a torque motor like the 4.9 with all the power down low this is a wicked setup. I was racing with a 3.32 at the track and could pull off 14.6 at over 100mph and never touch 4th gear. 3rd was good till about 108mph. Then the 4th overdrive and the revs would drop to a nice easy cruise.

The next best option for gearing is the Isuzu unfortunately as you can see in this thread. They blow up rather quickly under any kind of abuse.

Let me put it this way.

I had an auto beat the hell out of it to the point that the 2-3 shift was like a wet noodle.

So I converted the car to a 3.32 4spd with a hopped up 2.9 V6 on Nitrous. I blew no less than 3 of the cases apart in 2 years I split them open at the bottom like a clam shell.

After exhausting my supply of 3.32's I installed a late model 3.65 tranny. I went 3 years and not a single failier. Due to an unfortunate event all the 3.32's that I had ended up being donated to a tranny shop for parts as I had to move and did not have storage for them. I have not really looked around for a replacement but I think I am going to start looking now. The nice thing about the 4spds are the rebuild prices are next to nothing. A complete bearing and gasket set for the 4spd is less than $100 just don't kill a synchro as it took us a week to find a replacement synchro for buddy that exploded his.

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85GT 5spd MSD Everything,4.9 With Nitrous. www.captfiero.com

AND the 4 spds are EAAASSYYYY to take apart and put back together.

quote Originally posted by BigLittleV8: People are always talking bad about how centerforce clutch's slip. Looks like a slipping clutch would have been a lot better than a broken trans. Look's like the clutch hooked pretty well to me. Mark

LOL, you got that right. SO far the centerforce has been great to me. Who knows maybe with all the failers they were having they revised it or something.

quote Originally posted by Rhino88gt: Hey Capt, are you waiting for a fiero econo trans. or just any with a 3.32 FD. I put the citation 3.32 gears in mine as you know and 4th is geared almost IDENTICAL to 5th in the getrag, so it doesnt have quite as high top gear as the izuzu but even with my turbo, it doesnt really seem all that busy at 80mph. BUT you dont have to shift as quick or as often. Just a thought.

Na I really want that sweet .73 4th gear for runs up the Canyon at 100+mph. Also with the extra rpm drop it will sure help with these crazy gas prices.

Well I just got back from the Test Drive.

Car drives like a million dollars, shifts are firm and crisp. Synchro's seem to be perfect. To be honest I was not sure what fluid to put in the Isuzu, so I filled it with 5w20 semi synthetic.

There is no way to tell if the tranny was rebuild for sure. But after the tranny guy looked it and I showed me how there was zero slop in the shift linkage and all the seals were visibly new. I am kinda leaning towards this being a rebuilt unit.

I am going to take it easy on this as frankly I can't deal with another busted part until after Christmas. I installed it 3 1/2 months ago, and it has been nothing but install and drive and repair, drive and repair.

With any luck no more breakage.

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85GT 5spd MSD Everything,4.9 With Nitrous. www.captfiero.com