After conecting the basic components to run the engine I turned the key for about 2 seconds and it started without any problems This engine has no exaust sysem and is very quiet. It does smoke a little because I put some oil in the sparkplug holes about two years ago. It is outside the car for now on a make shift engine stand. I will put it in the car after I do more of the wire harness. I used the Olds PCM, Antilock Brake Control Modual, Body Control Modual, Ignition Key and Lock assembely and even used the stock Olds Gauge Cluster. It is all laid out on the ground for now.
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05:20 PM
PFF
System Bot
$Rich$ Member
Posts: 14575 From: Sioux Falls SD Registered: Dec 2002
Well I have alot of info on the engine and swap. But is there anything more spacific you want to know. 3.5 TDC 215HP, 230T, 6700RPM Very Braud power band.
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05:38 PM
crzyone Member
Posts: 3571 From: Alberta, Canada Registered: Dec 2000
Congratulations on getting it running. You have one of the most interesting and sanitary installs I have ever seen. Could you direct me to other info on this swap ? More pictures of what you have done would be the best.
Thanks Guys. I got this Power Train a few years ago. At that time I wanted, and still want a N*, but I got this for $600. I called all around the U.S. and the going rate was $4,000 for every thing that I got with this without shipping. Yes it is a very complex swap. But there is light on the other end of the tunnel, I have another 88 cradle that will some day have a N* on it. I did this swap with the intent of swapping the N* in for the S* in a day. This way I can drive a V6 one day and a V8 the next. With gas as high as it is a V6 is a good idea. The pre 2K N*s need premium gas to boot. This is a daily driver that will get over 100 miles a day so gas is an issue. I drive a 2002 Olds Intrigue with this same 3.5 TDC in it and LOVE it. It gets about 30MPG with a huge car, so I have high expectations for this engine in a smaller car. This swap will be smog legal in CA. to and so will the N*. So it will be as far as I know the only CA. smog legal 3.5 swap in a Fiero. To date I know of no one that has finnished this swap at all. I got ideas from the N* people. But the vast majority of the swap I had to figure out by my self. I had offers from PFFrs to host a web site on this swap and I took up the offer from 85Frankenstien who is the same person that hosts DOHCFiero. The adress will be ShortStarFiero.com and we hope to have it up and running soon.
This is the fuse/relay box in the trunk
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07:35 PM
PFF
System Bot
Rickady88GT Member
Posts: 10648 From: Central CA Registered: Dec 2002
That is a beautiful swap. I hate to tell you this after all the work you've done, but it looks so simple. I think thats the best compliment I can give as many people work very hard to try to make their projects look simple. Very nice.
Wow! That is the Sweetest looking engine. Sorry to sound neive about its power potential but it looks so clean in that engine bay. I own a 4.9L Fiero and I mean she's fast and awesome to drive but not exactly the best looking engine. I really like that. Congrats and please more pictures!
Thanks man I realy like the way it looks too. If you saw it in person you might think it came with this engine. Simple is good Simple is Sleeper
The power potental is somewere around 270HP with some mods This is acording to a company that uses this engine in dune buggies. They say with intake air cleaner assem, exaust headers and there ECM with minor mods it will make 270HP Mine will make more power but it needs a smog sticker first. I had two goals when I started this swap. One is to make it CA. smog legal. The other was to make it look "stock" if the Fiero came with this engine this is what it should look like. If I pop the trunk and someone sees the engine and says something like "I did not know those things came with such a big engine." That is what I am shooting for. I may "Hot Rod" the N* but this one is the sleeper.
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10:52 PM
Rickady88GT Member
Posts: 10648 From: Central CA Registered: Dec 2002
TK, the clerance between the strut tower and engine is about 2 to 3 inches. the clearance between the engine and trunk is two inches and the engine firewall clerance is two inches. The clerance beteen the tranny and frame rail is about the same as a stock V6 auto. I have MUCH more room in the front side of the engine than the stock V6! This egine is very wide but it is also very short. It is as wide as it is long and the hight is about the same as it length.
This is a 5speed bolted to the 3.5 just to see if they fit together.
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11:07 PM
Oct 28th, 2003
Nashco Member
Posts: 4144 From: Portland, OR Registered: Dec 2000
Sweetness! I really like this engine swap, it's a modern improvement on the 3.4DOHC, looks beautiful, and fits fantastic. You've done a great job of packaging things well so far, just goes to show all that effort is worth it! I'm looking forward to seeing it "finalized" and reading all about the details on your website.
Bryce 88 GT
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02:13 AM
SplineZ Member
Posts: 952 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Registered: Nov 2002
Sweetness! I really like this engine swap, it's a modern improvement on the 3.4DOHC, looks beautiful, and fits fantastic.
I was thinking the same thing. A lot of the 3.4 DOHC installs I've seen just look "shoehorned". This one looks like it belongs there. Now that we've seen this one, I wouldn't be surprised if a number of other people follow in your footsteps. You know how we are.
Did you have to hammer the firewall for alternator clearance? Can you change the front spark plugs without lowering the cradle or removing the decklid? The redline is 6700?
Thanks for fielding my ignorant questions.
------------------ Raydar
88 3.4 coupe. 17s, cut springs 'n all.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 10-28-2003).]
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09:27 AM
Black-Azz-GT Member
Posts: 2326 From: Florida Keys Registered: Oct 2003
Thanks guys Yes the top is a cover. It is called a beauty cover, it is a MUST for this engine as it is for the N* because they are so ugly unerneeth . But it's primary function is sound supression. It reay cuts down the mechanical sounds. The engine has NO accesory brakets The AC pump and alt bolt directly to the block. This makes for a VERY compact drive train. So I made no mods to acomidate the alt or AC compresor. I did not have to make any mods to the fire wall or trunk. The mods I chose to make I did because I just wanted to do more work than I need to I did mods to "clean up" the look of the engine bay. I do have to take out the two rear cradle bolts and drop the cradle a few inches to do the spark plugs. But I did this swap with that in mind, so the ONLY thing I have to unbolt to do this is the air cleaner tube. The rest of the drive train will just drop down with no fuss. My 2002 Olds Intrigue hits the red line every day I drive it. It sounds GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD I have the Olds dash pod hooked up but I have not reved it to red line yet, that will happen after it is in the car It has NO exaust on it yet and it is QUIET. I was ready to grab the ear muffs when I started it but at 650 RPM and no exaust system it is quieter that any motercycle! So I think that the system I have planned will work well.
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10:30 AM
Rickady88GT Member
Posts: 10648 From: Central CA Registered: Dec 2002
This is the Anti-lock brake modual and Olds Charcoal/Vapor Canister. It all fits in there under the right rear clip were the Fiero vapor canister used to be.
This is the PCM on the fire wall and if you look in the top hole in the side of the engine bay (were the battery used to be) you can see the Anti-lock Brake Modual behind there. Also you can see the top of the Charcoal canister sticking up throu a hole in the inner fender whell.
Same view just zoomed out.
This is the Fiero fuel sending unit with the 96 LT1 (direct drop in) Corvette fuel pump and Olds fuel guage sending unit ready to go in. To use the Olds gauge pod I needed to use the sending unit.
------------------ " My intention is to " give a different point of view ", not to offend in any way; peace." Link to car pictures of PFF members: http://fieroz.com/photo.html If you would like to include your car pic,send it to this email address: webmaster@fieroz.com
Cool! Neat and different swap. Quite a different way to be different! I have one question also your engine compartiment looks extremely neat, what type of paint did you use and how did you prep it? Thanks for your time. Jason
------------------ A coward dies a thousand deaths..................A soldier dies but once. Red 86 SE Yellow 87 GT Gold 86 SE (wrecked)
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07:08 PM
PFF
System Bot
Nashco Member
Posts: 4144 From: Portland, OR Registered: Dec 2000
Oh yea, I was doing a search for the ShortStar (not the easiest engine to find info on) And I found mention of a 4.0 ShortStar?
The 4.0 is the Northstar (4.6 V8) with less bore, if I recall correctly. The 4.0 came in the Aurora...can't have an oldsmobile sharing an engine with the caddies, now can we?
Bryce 88 GT
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07:18 PM
Rickady88GT Member
Posts: 10648 From: Central CA Registered: Dec 2002
8Ball, I never drove in a 3.4 DOHC so I cant say how they feel but as far sa HP/TQ the S* has one exter HP and 10-20 extra TQ. The differance is the bower band. The S* makes power much sooner in the RPM range and pulls harder than the 3.4 all the way throu the power band. So it should feel better than the 3.4. The aftermarket is small but there are a few companies that make parts for them as well as N* parts, they are kind of the same. As far as how much work is it to do a N* after the 3.5??? that is a good question, I never did a N*. But they have so much in common that most all of the eletrical and mechanical is the same from what I can see. So I will find out when I get there.
Mach10, Dont even think aout reprograming the stock PCM. There is a company called Mechtech that already makes ECMs that are stand alone type systems. So they have nothing to do wih the tranny, you can run anything you want. mcaanda, Whats up man? you got your net back! Man you got to come see it! Fierofreak00, I whent to the auto body shop and got the paint put in a can. It can be any paint you want. I cleaned the engine bay with dish soap then rinsed it real good. I used wet dry sandpaper with the soap to scuff the old paint. After a few good rinses I cleaned it with paint thinner and used the custom filled paint spray cans to finish it off. The Auroras all had 4.0 V8s all the way up to 1999. In 2000 they came with the 3.5 as a base engine and the 4.0 became the upgrade engine.
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07:49 PM
Oct 29th, 2003
mcaanda Member
Posts: 3652 From: Grand Junction Colorado Registered: Mar 2003
Originally posted by Rickady88GT: mcaanda, Whats up man? you got your net back! Man you got to come see it!
No, Im here at FSU using their wireless connection in the E. Engineering Bld. Yahoo DSL people say that it should be ready to go today. I guess that we will see on that there
I have tomarrow off from the college, as well as the Cable guy should be in to get that set up as well. If it's not too late, Lisha and I w/ the trailer might see about making it over to take a "gander" at the 8th wonder of the Fiero World!
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11:30 AM
Songman Member
Posts: 12496 From: Nashville, TN Registered: Aug 2000
I went up and checked this thing out yesterday! Last time I was up there it was a nice idea that Rick was working on... Now it is a running engine and is totally impressive. He has it all layed out there with the gauges hooked up and everything and when he hits that key, it fires right up! I love that he is using all the security and convenience features of the Aurora too. That is how I was going to do my 4.9 back before I left Tennessee. I think we will see more people doing this now instead of trying to find EMC that will work with your engine... Way to go, Rick! Leading the way for the rest of us! btw... the car ran perfectly on the way home! Today I start cleaning it up and getting those few little bugs out. Thanks!
Allen... Rick said you probably weren't going to be able to make the Coast Run. Sorry to hear that! We will miss you.
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11:50 AM
Nashco Member
Posts: 4144 From: Portland, OR Registered: Dec 2000
This is the Fiero fuel sending unit with the 96 LT1 (direct drop in) Corvette fuel pump and Olds fuel guage sending unit ready to go in. To use the Olds gauge pod I needed to use the sending unit.
What was the major difference between the Fiero and the Olds fuel sending unit? I thought GM was pretty standard about using 0-90 ohm sending units, but they must be going to something different with the newer models.
Bryce 88 GT
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02:25 PM
mrfixit58 Member
Posts: 3330 From: Seffner, Fl, USA Registered: Jul 99
That's just an awesome job. That's exactly what I did to install a 350 TPI/700r4 into my 68 Camaro I used the motor, tranny and harness from a 89 Firebird GTA. I went a little farther and also used the headlight harness, too.
Nashco, the Olds sending unit is a 5volt above ground system. The Fiero uses the same 12volt ground for the sending unit and fuel pump. The Olds 5volt ground system is used for a few sensors. One of them is this fuel tank pressure sensor. I had to use a 4wire gromet for the extra wire. Also notice the 6 wire plug that replaced the stock Fiero 3 wire plug
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 10-29-2003).]
I am realy bad at takeing notes but I hope to have the website up and have good info on it so others can do it to. I dont think anyone will do it like this, I know I wont do it like this again. I will do it again for a N* But it was just way to much work doing it like I did. There are aftermarket PCMs out there now that cut the work down by 70% at least. The electrical is the hardest part. A lot of the conversion is just to make it look like I wanted to look(I had a clean stock look in mind and it took alot of work to get that look), so others can do it much easier than I made it on myself. This conversion is alot of work but it reay aint that bad If people get the aftermarket PCM and just slap it in, it will still look good and be MUCH less work than I make it sound.
Red 86 SE
