Im leaving here in a few to go look at a supposed electric fiero that the owner claims is factory original. anyone know about any electric fieros made by pontiac?
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07:14 PM
PFF
System Bot
CoolBlue87GT Member
Posts: 8463 From: Punta Gorda, Florida, USA Registered: Apr 2001
Don't forget that GM worked on making the Fiero an electric car. I don't know how far it went but I do have photos of drawings etc. I've seen several different electric versions and from what I hear they are a rather good match.
Anyone know more about this ???? I sent ARKaiser a message, asked if he could post those drawings.
[This message has been edited by CoolBlue87GT (edited 08-07-2006).]
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07:30 PM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
the owner told me it has solar cells on the hood and decklid. The motor runs off of 16-6 volt batteries. And the rest of the car off of 1-12v battery. Thats all I know, and im trying to find 2 AA batteries right now for my camera and im headed out the door.
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07:35 PM
CoolBlue87GT Member
Posts: 8463 From: Punta Gorda, Florida, USA Registered: Apr 2001
I guess Leslie Neilson was given one and it was in Naked Gun 2 1/2? I don't think I have watched that movie. It looks like that yellow one, but it was blue.
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09:37 PM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
Yup thats it. except its an 85 and has the bumper pad rear fascia. Its white, and looks pretty good inside an out. Has 81k on the odometer. The batteries are original and need to be replaced, and it should be good as new. The front end is a full tilt, and mounted to the bottom side of the hood is a voltage regulator for each of the 4 solar panels. We couldnt get into the trunk, because there is no trunk lock. There is a button mounted beside the cigarette lighter, but since the batteries were toast we had no way to get it to pop. I couldnt find batteries for my camera, so I took some pics with my phone.
here is the vin btw if anyone cares. 1G2PE37R8FP231741
How much would something like this be worth in good running condition?
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10:52 PM
moleman_in_a_FieroGT Member
Posts: 792 From: Houston, TX, USA Registered: Apr 2006
Originally posted by fieroX: Yup thats it. except its an 85 and has the bumper pad rear fascia. Its white, and looks pretty good inside an out. Has 81k on the odometer. The batteries are original and need to be replaced, and it should be good as new. The front end is a full tilt, and mounted to the bottom side of the hood is a voltage regulator for each of the 4 solar panels. We couldnt get into the trunk, because there is no trunk lock. There is a button mounted beside the cigarette lighter, but since the batteries were toast we had no way to get it to pop. I couldnt find batteries for my camera, so I took some pics with my phone.
here is the vin btw if anyone cares. 1G2PE37R8FP231741
How much would something like this be worth in good running condition?
Hmmm... That sounds a lot like the car that I said I saw in this thread.
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11:00 PM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
Originally posted by fieroX: ... We couldnt get into the trunk, because there is no trunk lock. There is a button mounted beside the cigarette lighter, but since the batteries were toast we had no way to get it to pop.
Take a 12V Battery, connect a cig lighter plug to it, plug it into the socket, hit the trunk button. - Your in.
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11:27 PM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
doing more investigation, it was made by a company called Solar electric engineering, and the model is the destiny 2000. I could only find 2 references online, the yellow one, and a brown one. I emailed both of the people, but the guy with the brown one's email came back as address invalid. So, I guess we will see. I cant imagine too many of these were made. Think back to the early 90's, how much was gas back then $1 a gallon? Cant see much of a demand really for an electric car back then.
I have found the batteries, they are about $60 each, and it takes 18 of them.
Think the car is worth $10k running and driving?
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11:36 PM
PFF
System Bot
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
doing more investigation, it was made by a company called Solar electric engineering, and the model is the destiny 2000. I could only find 2 references online, the yellow one, and a brown one. Think the car is worth $10k running and driving?
The Blue one that was in the Naked Gun 2 1/2 was just sold on eBay recently. I bid on it but lost. I don't know how many of these were made but it was in a factory in California in the early 90s not by Pontiac.
With the Current price of gas I would love to have one of these for commuting. The solar panels just help to top off the 12V system, it would take WAAAAAAAy too long to charge the traction batteries that way, (weeks).
Ps - As for value...It would cost about $5K to convert a Fiero, including the batteries, but not including the cost of the Fiero. So if the frame and interior of the Destiny 2000 is in nice shape, say $2K -$3K shape then the car would be worth about $7K to $8K in my opinion. I think $10K is pushing it. They are not that rare since at least three are known to exist, probably a lot more.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 08-08-2006).]
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12:37 AM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
I have found the batteries, they are about $60 each, and it takes 18 of them.
You would probably need to upgrade that configuration...most of the electrics are running 144 volts now, (24 batteries) That's a tight squeeze in a Fiero, but it's doable.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 08-08-2006).]
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12:46 AM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
Don't forget that GM worked on making the Fiero an electric car. I don't know how far it went but I do have photos of drawings etc. I've seen several different electric versions and from what I hear they are a rather good match.
I don't recall but it wasn't more than a couple of $k.
There was a guy in Kansas City that had one
Also if you Google on "Destiny 2000" you can turn up more info about it.
In the 1990s a Gary Starr of Solar Electric Engineering, took his substantial knowledge in making and marketing solar electric trinkets such as solar powered pith helmets, combined it with his personal knowledge of converting automobiles to electricity, and manufactured a series of production/conversion electric cars. The most famous of which was the Destiny 2000, featured in the movies Naked Gun 2 ½ and 33 1/3. He went the route of cherry picking used cars to produce his vehicles. Destiny 2000’s were built from used Pontiac Fieros. These vehicles had rear trunk lids made out of solar panels and had solar panels embedded into a custom made front hood.
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12:48 PM
dratts Member
Posts: 8373 From: Coeur d' alene Idaho USA Registered: Apr 2001
I worked in the solar business at that time. Gary had a knack for writing up his projects and getting a lot of free publicity. I never saw any of his work, but everybody who invested in his business lost big time
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08:41 PM
Aug 9th, 2006
StuGood Member
Posts: 3172 From: Wichita, KS, USA Registered: Jun 2000
I worked in the solar business at that time. Gary had a knack for writing up his projects and getting a lot of free publicity.
Getting the car in the Naked Gun movies was good publicity I'm sure. I wonder how many he built? I've seen at least three or four on the forum, although I'm suspicous that the yellow and blue one are the same car.
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01:00 AM
DustoneGT Member
Posts: 1274 From: The U.S. Superstate Registered: Dec 2002
You guys can get batteries for under $200 each. 6 volt Lead acid here i priced them at about $650 each lithium ion batteries last 5 time as long and at $1150 each , they would want to
[This message has been edited by proff (edited 08-09-2006).]
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02:29 AM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
I don't recall but it wasn't more than a couple of $k.
There was a guy in Kansas City that had one
Also if you Google on "Destiny 2000" you can turn up more info about it.
In the 1990s a Gary Starr of Solar Electric Engineering, took his substantial knowledge in making and marketing solar electric trinkets such as solar powered pith helmets, combined it with his personal knowledge of converting automobiles to electricity, and manufactured a series of production/conversion electric cars. The most famous of which was the Destiny 2000, featured in the movies Naked Gun 2 ½ and 33 1/3. He went the route of cherry picking used cars to produce his vehicles. Destiny 2000’s were built from used Pontiac Fieros. These vehicles had rear trunk lids made out of solar panels and had solar panels embedded into a custom made front hood.
This info is right on the money!!!!
GM looked into to it but never publicly showed an electric Fiero. Besides they would never have sold the prototype.
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07:11 AM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
How about just using 9, 12v batteries at $40 each.
Roger, Ive thought about this too. Turns out the 6v batteries are a special deep cycle. I forgot what the guy at the battery store told me about them, but it has to do with the amp hours and the discharge rate. A normal 12v battery has a much quicker discharge rate than the 6v battery. I looked into getting the new 6v optima, but the guy at the battery store said they wouldnt work well at all, plus optimas have a special charging procedure and you wouldnt be able to use the built in battery charger.
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10:23 AM
Fierochic88 Member
Posts: 4982 From: Staunton, VA Registered: May 2001
The blue one might belong to Penn State University. There was an article about one they had a few years back (it was blue). I tried to get them to bring it to Carlisle in 2005 but the students were in the middle of exams and couldn't make it down. Maybe we can try and get it for next year.
~ Jen
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11:12 AM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
Supposedly the blue one is the actual car that was in the Naked Gun movies and it was sold on eBay recently. The photo above was posted on the auction site at the time. I don't know the person that bought it, probably doesn't post on this forum.
As far as I know the Penn State car is different. It was being hand built using advanced batteries.
As for using regular 12V batteries, if you used a regular car starting battery it wouldn't last very long. At a minimum you would want to use Deep-cycle batteries.
There are some conversions using Optima deep cycle batteries, but the amp hours in those batteries is not very great. You would need at least 24 of them, but you might only get 20 or 30 mile range.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 08-09-2006).]
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01:13 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
more on the Penn State Fiero... It's range of "only" 100 miles is very good for a home built electric conversion.
Spare parts + spare time = "Lightning Blue"
Students convert 1984 Pontiac Fiero into electric vehicle
It is August 2003 and a group of students, fresh home from the annual FutureTruck competition, is hungry for more work with vehicles. Mechanical engineering student Jim Schmalzried recalls, “We had spare parts lying around and we said, ‘Wouldn’t it be cool to use these parts to build a pure electric vehicle?’”
A 1984 Pontiac Fiero was already sitting at the Pennsylvania Transportation Institute test track. The body and some of the other parts weren’t in good condition. “We got some parts—body panels and some of the interior pieces—off eBay to make it a better show vehicle,” explains Schmalzried.
The original team, which included Schmalzried, Paul Minear (EE ’03), Gary Neal (ME MS ’98), Eric Reischer (ME ’03), Krishan Bhatia (ME PhD ’04), and electrical engineering students Tim Corcoran and Brian Herrold, wanted the car to be done in time to debut at the homecoming parade. That meant they had less than three months to piece it together.
Schmalzried laughs, “In that small amount of time, we got the gasoline engine running and completely tore apart the drivetrain. Making it into an electric vehicle was the complicated part. We added an electric motor, mated it to a stock 4-speed manual transmission, introduced 180 volts of nickel metal hydride batteries, and found a place to put all those parts in a small car like the Fiero!”
The body panels purchased were all white and weren’t in the best condition, so the team decided to paint the car Penn State colors—blue with white racing stripes.
They dubbed their creation “Lightning Blue.”
Since its debut in the 2003 homecoming parade, the car has been at the Energy Expo in April 2004 and it made a repeat appearance in the 2004 homecoming parade.
Future plans for Lightning Blue include the possibility of putting a one kilowatt fuel cell in it, making it a true hybrid. Right now it is pure electric, and its range is only 100 miles.
“If we put a small fuel cell in there we will promote awareness of the fuel cell and raise the car’s range to at least 200 miles,” states Schmalzried.
“There are so many people who don’t understand the concept behind the hybrid electric vehicle and why it’s such a benefit and why we put research money into these things,” he continues.
Hybrid electric vehicles are more energy efficient, but there are disadvantages. For example, fuel cells are too expensive to be commercially viable—a small fuel cell that might power a golf cart is about $5,000.
The group hopes that by maintaining the vehicle and driving it around occasionally, the public will become more aware of the importance of hybrid electric vehicles. And for now that hope seems to be a reality. Schmalzried exclaims, “We have received a few phone calls—one person even asked if we could convert their car to an HEV!”
—Stefanie Tomlinson
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 08-09-2006).]
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01:27 PM
PFF
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Aug 11th, 2006
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
well ive got my mom interested in the car now. shes always been an advocate for alternative energy, and shes a believer that with my mechanical ability, and ingenuity, I would be able to take the design and expand upon it. So shes going to go half in on it with me, and were going to get it running good and see what we can do. My dads girlfriends family owns a company that can rewind electric motors for increased performance or effeciency. So im going to see what it takes to make it go 150 miles on a charge. I would also like to look into more effecient solar panels, and more effecient batteries. I think I can get 150-200 miles per charge.
From what ive learned from Joe Lado, the guy that owns the yellow one, It costs about 1c per mile worth of electricity to charge the batteries. Not too shabby. Do that on a global scale, and stick it right up the a$$hole of the oil companies. Ceo's will start making $100k again instead of $400M. Then Ill probably end up in a "mysterious" car crash.
Very cool find. If the price was right, it'd be a great project car (and an even better commuter).
So... you're going to try and get it to run 10's? Just imagine the future controversy... 12v vs 16v systems? (LOL sorry, couldn't resist)
actually, I would be expanding not on the performance aspect as much as the range aspect. They say the car can go 80 in stock form. Thats plenty fast. I have the fast fiero, now its time for the economical one. What I really want to do is get an ecotec fiero, thats fwd electric. It would be pretty heavy, but I bet I could make it average 70 mpg. I just need some bags of money and a shop. Id make GM's engineers look like a pack of monkeys trying to fu(k a football
[This message has been edited by fieroX (edited 08-11-2006).]
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05:17 PM
dratts Member
Posts: 8373 From: Coeur d' alene Idaho USA Registered: Apr 2001
So im going to see what it takes to make it go 150 miles on a charge. I would also like to look into more effecient solar panels, and more effecient batteries. I think I can get 150-200 miles per charge.
This is good news.
THe problem with electric cars is not the motors. They are plenty fast enough and develop maximum torque at zero rpm. You could easily do a wheel stand and run 10s in the quarter.
The problem is the batteries. If you look at my Avatar that's the logo for the lithium ion battery for the NASA space suit that I'm working on, so I know a little about batteries. You are not going to get anywhere near 100 miles with lead acid batteries, you will need at least NiMH. What you really want are Lithium Ion batteries, but you will need a small forture. The one that powers the space suit is about the size of a car battery but cost about 9 million dollars to develop.
You best bet is to try to maximize efficiency of every component to make the best of what available energy you have.
My concept of an electric Fiero would be to use 24 of the 6 volt flooded lead acid golf cart batteries, because they are the most bang for the buck. Then use my knowledge of Fieros to cram a much smaller, but powerful array of Lithium Ion batteries into all the nooks and crannies. These would be to run the accessories, not the least of which is air conditioning. The solar panels can be used to help top off this array when you are parked. This saves all your available juice to run the traction motors. With that setup 100 miles might be possible.
Forget about more efficient solar panels...even if you had a 100% efficient solar panel the solar flux coming from the sun is too weak to charge your traction batteries unless you had an insane size panel like the size of a football field.
Keep us posted on your progress.
- Jonathan
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10:46 PM
watts Member
Posts: 3256 From: Coaldale, AB, Canada Registered: Aug 2001
Originally posted by fieroX: I would also like to look into more effecient solar panels
Funny - I JUST read an article in today's paper about a whole new type of solar cell that's going to be (5X?) cheaper to produce, and will generate more watts/meter than current technologies. The acronym for it was CIGS. Don't ask me to repeat the whole name.
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10:54 PM
lou_dias Member
Posts: 5350 From: Warwick, RI Registered: Jun 2000
Why not get the rumored EV-1 aluminum frames and make them real Fieros. You could probably get 48 miles to the gallon with a 2.8 in those. Not to mention insane 1/4 mile times and braking...
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11:50 PM
Aug 12th, 2006
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
and will generate more watts/meter than current technologies.
This won't help very much.
Maybe I didn't state it clear enough... Although the solar flux varies day by day minute by minute the standard amount is about 1370 watts per square meter. That's it, that's all you will ever get even if you had a 100% efficient solar panel. Oh yeah, and the atmoshphere absorbs about 25% of that even on the clearest day, but I'll assume no atmosphere.
So even if you had this mythical 100% efficient solar panel and could store that energy in a 100% efficient battery...
the average electric car requires about 200 watts per mile, at steady state. To accelerate you would need at least twice that amount, but I'll assume you can have 100% efficient regenerative braking, (which is impossible) but I'll give that to you as well.
Lets assume you are cruising at 60 miles per hour, to go 100 miles it would take you 1.67 hours to cover that distance or 200 (watts) 100 miles x 1.67 hours or 33.333 Kwh.
Now size your array 33,333/ 1370 = 24 square meters. or about 258 square feet...
And I have to break several laws of physics to get to the 100% efficient array and battery... So don't expect to get a solar powered car any time soon.
The only variable we have any control over is the energy used to move the car, which is why solar powered cars weigh next to nothing and are extremely aerodynamic and look like this:
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 08-12-2006).]
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12:35 AM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
One thing you probably would want to do is build that massive solar array and use it to fill batteries which you can then use to recharge your electric Fiero. That's what this guy does.
Otherwise you are going to have to put 33 Kilowatt-hours into your car every 100 miles. That's about how much energy my house uses in a day. In other words your electricity bill will about double. I don't know about you but I'm already paying over $300 a month.
Electricity has gotten a lot more expensive as well as gasoline, we are paying over $0.13/Kwh here in Texas and just a couple of years ago it was less than $0.09.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 08-12-2006).]
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