I saw one cruising thru Nashville on I-24 last night...I was in my work vehicle (red Mustang) transporting a witness, otherwise I'd've stopped and introduced myself. Gave 'em a flash on the blues, waved, and went on...but I'd REALLY like to know where they got those lights; they were mounted in the stock location, in what appeared to be the factory headlight buckets. It sounded REAL nice, too.
Anyone know who it might be? I think the car was black, but hard to tell colors under those stupid sodium lights (look forward to the day when they're replaced by white LED lighting). It was a notchback.

------------------

'88 Formula - 4.9 conversion by The Fiero Factory

[This message has been edited by Vonov (edited 01-26-2007).]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...dZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

there are cheaper universal kits on ebay also...

I am using these

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...dZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

they are hid for both high and low beam, most are hid for low and quartz bulb for high beam.
these are installed in hella quartz lenses rather then the cheaper plastic one that are about 10.00 on ebay.
I have used the Hella/bosch lenses for over 35 years and I have already been happy with them and their exact light pattern

all in all about 250 complete the hella's are about 70-80 on ebay

god luck

oh by the way they only use 35 watts after warm up and they come with wiring complete which goes directly to the battery and does not get power through the light switch othen then for powering the switching relay

tim

I have these and can now drive at night and stay on the road!

Starter/xformers with lamps $99 + ship
note, you have to swap the high beam and ground on the three wire connector to make it match the kit. http://best4shop.com/product_info.php


I got the H4 lamp housings for under $40 dollors from ebay, trying to find out from whom for you

so those worked out for ya francis? id like to see how they turned out. got any pics of the lighting?

Thank you, Francis, it would be much appreciated.

Got a correction, you dont have to swap the Hb LB wires. The set I recieved has one bad xformer, they thought it was a wiring goff on thier part, but I confirmed they come wired correctly. Until the replacement gets here, I have both high beams and only the passgener side low beam. Problem follows the exformer, just sent them email today for an RMA. They responded ok to my questions and I dont expect to have any problems getting it replaced, if I do, I will be sure to steer everyone elsewhere.

I want HIDs for my set-up. Those that have them, post pictures please (even though pics rarely ever do lighting proper justice).

I heard back form them the same day and they are sending me a new unit Monday, so they do seem to be a good company to deal with.

Sylvania has the x6054, it is a complete system to replace your sealed beam lights to get HID.

------------------
2005 Smart ForTwo
1986 Austin Mini
1986 Fiero GT 5-speed (waiting on a brake upgrade)
2007 Ninja 500

Does anyone have experience with the brite blue headlamps AND the yellow headlamps?
I'm wondering if the yellows are better for driving while it's snowing? I'm thinking that the blue headlights might not be as good in snow, too much bounce-back?

------------------
Ol' Paint, 88 Base coupe auto.
Turning white on top, like owner.
Leaks a little, like owner.
Doesn't smoke, unlike owner

When I lived in PA, I always had a pair of yellow fogs lights on my cars. In heavy snow, yellow is MUCH better than the white - white just makes EVERYTHING white out

my experience with the brite blue headlamp on my bike was not very good i went back to the white.

I currently have Silverstars, which are head and shoulders above the standard halogens, with the exception of the Hella lights I've seen overseas, but in deer country, I'm ALWAYS looking for better lighting.

Sylvania, and some other sites, have good articles on light, colored light, and heat ratings. It seems that the best light for visibility is ~4300K lighting, HID. Silverstars are supposed to be ~3000K and regular halogen ~1500K. As the K number goes above ~4300K, actual Lumens goes down and the light becomes more blue. Go high enough and the light starts turning more violet.

Blue tinted bulbs are just because the HID from the right angles looks more blue and if you tint a bulb blue and put it on your car, now you are cool because it looks like you have expensive HID. In reality, you have given yourself less light to use and your eyes do not dilate to blue as much so the light feels brighter (hurts my night blindness). This means your eyes will have more dilating to do when you meet oncoming traffic. Now, when they have dilated for the oncoming traffic, your eyes will let even less of your blue lights in. This happens because of the frequency of blue light. (Doesn't help that my eyes are blue so they reflect some of the blue light instead of absorbing it)
Blue belongs on your dash so you can turn the intensity down and it won't mess with your night vision (a la VW) but it shouldn't be on your headlights.
I agree with the yellow lights for limited visibility: not as bright, reduces glare, etc. I forgot why france uses them as headlights (or a headlight option, can't remember right now).

All statements about blue lights are my opinion of their origin and why they are still in play. Ignorance allowed it to start and propagate.

I got that replacemt ballast and everything works. Dont have much luck posting picture here, if anyone eants to see my installation send me an email

E-mail sent...what's a good source for the headlight housings? I'd prefer to stay with a rectangular shape if possible, and as posted above, no fluting on the glass.

The lamp housing I got are Diamond head lamp H4 7" and they were a simple no-mods-needed install. Thye also have a horz device inside so as not to blind on coming drivers. Got them from ebay but cant find the exact link. Amer, here told me about them and saw them on his car, he may still know the link.

quote Originally posted by Vonov: what's a good source for the headlight housings? I'd prefer to stay with a rectangular shape if possible, and as posted above, no fluting on the glass.

Susquehanna Motor Sports has drop-in Hella replacements (ECE standard) for the stock Fiero H6054 sealed beam headlamps for $85 a pair ... including 60/55 watt H4 halogen bulbs. They are about $8 less (per pair) without the halogen bulbs. Note that these headlights are listed as not DOT/SAE compliant. Susquehanna also offers DOT/SAE compliant Hella replacements for the H6054 for about the same price, but they appear to offer somewhat poorer lighting performance.

The ECE headlights look like they would be a good candidate for an HID conversion using H4-3 "Bi-Xenon" lamps. The H4-3 "Bi-Xenon" lamp has a single HID capsule along with a mechanism to reposition it slightly (or to move a shutter) between low beam and high beam positions. Be careful; some "H4" HID conversion kits being sold actually use H4-1 (HID low beam only) bulbs. Probably best to ask before you buy.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 02-13-2007).]

I'll see if I can find that link from paypal. Mine are H4 and have hi and low beam

------------------
[IMG]



Trueleo.com/fiero.htm
RSpiderII@aol.com

Here's where I got my lamp housings. BTW: you dont use the bulbs that come with them, you use the bulbs that come with ballast kit.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...mZ120082378195QQrdZ1

------------------
[IMG]



Trueleo.com/fiero.htm
RSpiderII@aol.com

quote Originally posted by Francis T: Mine are H4 and have hi and low beam

Are your H4 conversion bulbs the type that contain separate HID low beam and halogen high beam capsules, or are they the "Bi-Xenon" type that have a single HID capsule that is mechanically repositioned (or shuttered) for low and high beam? From the price I presume that they have a halogen high beam, but I'd like to know for sure.

Also, while we're on the subject of HID options, there is the often-misunderstood matter of color temperature. Color temperature is only related to the color of the light produced, not its brightness. (higher color temperature => bluer light, not brighter) For comparison, the color temperature of a standard (non-halogen) sealed beam headlight is about 2200K, a halogen headlight is about 3000K, and HID bulbs are available with color temperatures ranging from 3000K to 14000K. As further reference, the color temperature of natural sunlight varies from about 4300K mid-morning and mid-afternoon to about 5400K at high noon. (The actual temperature at the surface of the Sun itself is about 6500K.) 14000K is getting pretty close to the ultraviolet range ... and not very useful for human eyes, IMHO.

I would strongly recommend that anyone doing a conversion choose HID lights with a color temperature of 4300K to 6000K if you are more interested in headlight performance than in the "coolness" factor. Most OEM (factory) HID headlights are 4300K, which also happens to be the color temperature that corresponds to maximum HID light output. I also suspect that 4300K lights are far less likely to attract police attention than higher color temperature (i.e. bluer) lights. (Vonov?)

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 02-13-2007).]

The HID kit (ballast wires lamps) I listed and got, has two filements in each and they are white not blue.

Thanks again, Francis, and everyone who participated in this thread. Up until now, I was not aware that single-housing hi-low HID lighting could be had, and also thanks for the tip on not using the fluted lenses. Now I have a great deal better info than I had previously, and can make safer and more informed choices. You guys rock!

bump.

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: 14000K is getting pretty close to the ultraviolet range ... and not very useful for human eyes, IMHO.

Unless you are using some high dollar filters for the housing around a 14000K lamp, it is putting off some serious UV. Arc lighting already puts out UV, buts its not that bad until you get to high color temps. The only way to filter it at such high temperature is to use a VERY low bandwidth blue filter at the 14000K frequency.

Anything about 9000 is trash anyway.

Here are three excellent references for anyone considering converting your headlights to HID:

The HID Lighting Tutorial
Daniel Stern Lighting
Automotive Lighting FAQ

I have been doing a lot of research on the topic, as well as some personal testing (see below), and I have come to the conclusion that retrofitting halogen headlights to HID is generally a bad idea. Not only is it illegal anywhere in the U.S., Canada, and Europe, but the resulting headlight beams are not nearly as well controlled as with the original halogen bulbs. To do it right, you have to change the entire optics (housing, reflectors, lenses, and bulb mount), not just the bulb. YMMV.

Below are are two comparison images from my own testing, using a Hella 90 mm H9 DOT/SAE low beam projector headlight module. The test setup was exactly the same for both pictures; only the bulb was different. The distance from the lamp to the wall was about 22 feet. Note that some color fringing is to be expected in any projector type headlight, due to optical refraction in the projection lens.

The first picture is the Hella module with a standard 65 watt H9 halogen bulb. Note the sharp upper cutoff of the DOT "Z beam" pattern, flat beam top, minimal color fringing, and a well-defined "hot spot" directed straight ahead:




The next picture is the same Hella 90 mm DOT/SAE low beam module, but fitted with a cheap Asian-made, H9-based, HID conversion bulb (4300K) and ballast. According to published specs it puts out about 50% more light than the (already very bright) H9 halogen, but note the fuzzy upper cutoff, irregular beam top, and extreme color fringing. The "hot spot" is poorly defined, and there is also a lot more light to the sides, where you don't really need it.




At first I thought that some of the difference might be due to the HID bulb not being mounted at the precise focus depth in the projector assembly, so I checked both bulbs (measurement is in decimal inches):

H9 halogen bulb, mounted:




H8/H9/H11-based HID conversion bulb, mounted; the light producing arc is confined to the central "bubble":




P.S. Hella does make a 90 mm DOT/SAE low beam module specifically designed to use a standard D2S HID capsule, but this is not it. It appears that the HID version of Hella 90 mm module is different inside, both mechanically and optically, and it's a lot (~8x) more expensive. If I ever get my hands on one, I will post a comparison picture.

Edit: Here is a picture of the DOT/SAE compliant Hella 90mm HID module:



What a difference! Note the intense but well-controlled "hot spot," the razor-sharp cutoff at the top of the beam, and the reduced light distribution to the sides. (The light you see on the floor is mostly reflection off the wall, not bounce-back from the headlight beam itself.)

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 04-06-2007).]

Marvin, my mention of higher color temperatures is that they are lower lumens (according to Sylvania) and I believe that Lumens is the superior brightness measurement when talking about the value of lighting. I believe it is the more accurate measurement of useable light.

quote Originally posted by midengineracer: ... my mention of higher color temperatures is that they are lower lumens (according to Sylvania) and I believe that Lumens is the superior brightness measurement when talking about the value of lighting.

You are correct. Actually, luminosity (brightness) and color temperature are both important. Obviously, the more lumens (within legal limits) the brighter your lights will be. But less obviously, the human eye is much more sensitive to some colors (i.e. color temperatures) than others ... so it's best to pick a color temperature that the eye can see well.

Current HID lights emit the most light (i.e. most lumens) at a color temperature of 4100 K to 6000 K, which corresponds roughly to the color of natural sunlight. Clearly, our eyes are evolved to see well in sunlight. Color temperatures above 6000 K are at the extreme blue/violet end of the visible light spectrum, where our eyes are much less sensitive. That fact alone makes color temperatures above 6000 K undesirable for headlights. Another consideration is that water vapor in the air scatters blue/violet light much more readily than colors below 4300 K; our eyes perceive that scattering of blue light as haze or glare.

My main point is that there is a whole lot more to good headlight performance than just lumens and color temperature, and that you can't simply plug an HID setup into a halogen headlight housing and expect good results.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 02-14-2007).]

Hmmm... so if we get a few Fieros with real high output lamps and point them at some ricer, we could roast it? Neat!

quote Originally posted by AP2k: Unless you are using some high dollar filters for the housing around a 14000K lamp, it is putting off some serious UV.

Get the color temperature high enough and you will have true Ultraviolet Headlights ... and eventually X-Ray Headlights! I can't wait.

quote Originally posted by Francis T: Hmmm... so if we get a few Fieros with real high output lamps and point them at some ricer, we could roast it? Neat!

If you really want to roast the ricers (or anybody else, for that matter), just mount a couple of 4509 sealed beams (12 volt, 100 watt aircraft landing lights) as auxiliary high beams. They are a cheap (about $10 each) and easy retrofit to any 5 inch DOT/SAE sealed beam headlight housing. Don't ask me how I know.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 02-13-2007).]

Would those aircraft lights have been mounted in something like a Datsun?

EDIT:
I seem to remember hearing something like that a while ago, I think it was on the old mailing list...

[This message has been edited by midengineracer (edited 02-15-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: If you really want to roast the ricers (or anybody else, for that matter), just mount a couple of 4509 sealed beams (12 volt, 100 watt aircraft landing lights) as auxiliary high beams. They are a cheap (about $10 each) and easy retrofit to any 5 inch DOT/SAE sealed beam headlight housing. Don't ask me how I know.

LMAO- plus just for that!

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: you can't simply plug an HID setup into a halogen headlight housing and expect good results.

finally someone with some sense!

------------------

quote Originally posted by midengineracer: Would those aircraft lights have been mounted in something like a Datsun?

I never installed any in a Datsun. I did have an old Jaguar 3.8 Mk II sedan that was pretty bright at night, though. I think my parents' 1963 Pontiac Tempest convertible also had one in place of the left (only) high beam. If you installed two of the 4509s in a GM car of the period it would trip the circuit breaker in the headlight switch, as one of my friends discovered at about 75 mph on a rural road one night long ago. The 4509s put so much light down the road that it tended to destroy your dark-adapted vision, so when it suddenly went dark it went really dark.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 02-19-2007).]

can we see pictures of the headlight housing yall are using? what are the dimensions also? maybe i can get lucky and find some on ebay for 3 bux like i did my vette

get em for an rx-7. they are the same size but easier to find