What do we need a mid engine vette for? We already have fieros that can smoke them. I say keep the corvette the way it is and bring back the Fiero. Then again some of the parts would be able to be used on the Fiero wouldn't they? Could be interesting, but I doubt it will ever happen. GM had their chance for a midengine sports car and they blew it because of an "internal projection of dwindeling sales". Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your outlook) that car has advanced more since it death then it ever did through GM. Americas midengine car is ours now. lol. Just my thoughts. Either way I will still be driving my Fieros.
edit: One more thought... Would this mean that the fiero might actually have a chance at a good manual tranny? Hmmm....I wonder.
[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 04-12-2007).]
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08:27 PM
wingless Member
Posts: 152 From: arlington,texas,usa Registered: Oct 2006
What do we need a mid engine vette for? We already have fieros that can smoke them. I say keep the corvette the way it is and bring back the Fiero. Then again some of the parts would be able to be used on the Fiero wouldn't they? Could be interesting, but I doubt it will ever happen. GM had their chance for a midengine sports car and they blew it because of an "internal projection of dwindeling sales". Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your outlook) that car has advanced more since it death then it ever did through GM. Americas midengine car is our now. lol. Just my thoughts. Either way I will still be driving my Fieros.
I agree! I have owned two corvettes in the past and would much rather be driving my Fiero!
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08:35 PM
WAWUZAT Member
Posts: 563 From: Newport News, VA Registered: Jun 2002
How about we just keep the Corvette the way it is, give the mid-engine version to Pontiac, and scrap the Solstice?
Will never happen. GM killed the Fiero BECAUSE it was already outperforming the Vettes on the road race courses. It is highly unlikely GM will allow anything ever again approach their flagship performance-wise.
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08:44 PM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
While a few people from that discussion mentioned the Fiero, it didn't sound as though they were heaping praise on our car. Other then the part it may have played in the demise of the Fiero, I like the Corvette and I think it keeps getting better. Between the ZO6 and the Viper, they have quite the horsepower war going on. But for them to switch to a mid-engine platform...I don't think the ratio of risk vs. reward would warrant such a move, economically speaking...and for that matter the Vette faithful seem to be resistant to major change. Just consider the uproar that occurred when they changed the headlights!
------------------ Ninety percent of the population thinks you'd have to be crazy to own a Fiero. I'm in the other ten percent!
What would you guys think of Corvette being a seperate brand and playing off the alphanumeric names to make it more of a competitor towards Porsche?
Imagine going to a Corvette dealership where there are C6's, Z06's,and more direct competitors towards Porsche like a Corvette SR(Stingray)to go up against Boxster/Caymen, Corvette SS to go up against a Carrera GT etc. But build off the name Corvette.
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10:31 PM
sardonyx247 Member
Posts: 5032 From: Nevada, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Yea, u can go out and blow 65K on a 11sec car if u have a small penis...or u can build a 11sec car for easily under 7K.
Will that 11 second car you built for under $7000 come with A/C and all the power toys? Cruise control? Nice sound system? Will it pull close to 1g on a skidpad? Will it get over 20 mpg? Will it be covered by a bumper to bumper warranty? Will it pass emissions? Will you get something comfortable and nice looking for your $7000? Or just a piece of crap with a big engine?
Would you actually equate a home built $7k 11sec car with a new Z06? Heck, why not just by a '73 Vega and put a JATO bottle on it? That would be cheaper still, right?
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10:46 PM
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jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
Yea, u can go out and blow 65K on a 11sec car if u have a small penis...or u can build a 11sec car for easily under 7K.
I might argue your math a little bit...
You don't have to spend $65K to get a Z06, there are low miles used ones for less than half that.
And I don't think there are many, if any Fieros running in the 11 flat for under $7K easily.
At that power level Fieros are going to need a lot of beef up parts or it will be blowing trannies left and right. And after all that you still have a 20 year old car that is going to need brakes, suspension, interior, paint, etc, before it's as nice as that low miles Z06, so I think the price differential is less than you think...the Fiero might even cost more.
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10:50 PM
Scurvy Member
Posts: 865 From: Richmond, Va Registered: Nov 2005
I agree with Scurvy. This is the perfect opportunity to expand the line and gain even more market share. Yes it would cost more but even if it was 20% more, that's still way less than the supercars it would compete against. Personally, I think its a great idea and the timing is right.
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11:47 PM
Mike Murphy Member
Posts: 2251 From: Greencastle, Indiana 46135 Registered: Oct 2001
This was a prototype done in the early 90's that was at the GM Heritage Center several people from the Michigan Fiero Club hosted in the fall of 2005 that my son and I attended. This is a mid engine vette that they had on display so it has been done before but never become a reality.
And to be fair here is the Fiero Roadster that never was
[This message has been edited by Mike Murphy (edited 04-12-2007).]
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11:50 PM
Apr 13th, 2007
niemann99 Member
Posts: 258 From: Seattle, WA USA Registered: Dec 2006
Seems like this comes up every few years at GM. They know, as well as we do, that no front engined car can outperform a mid engined car, when comparing apples to apples. ( no v6 vs v8, no one off suspension against production susp, etc. ) GM has gone on a racing binge in the last several years, and now, many engineers at GM are race oriented, they've found that ( winning )racing is good for business.
With the recent showings by Aston Martin ( yes, that is also a front engined car,) but the Saleen S7 is in the same racing class and the writing is on the wall - it's only a matter of time before someone pours enough money into a race team ( S7, Ferrari, Maserati, Bugatti, any other mid engined car ) to beat the Corvettes. The C6 platform is at about 95% of race potential - unless GM develops a completely new engine for it and THAT ain't gonna happen- , whereas the S7 in race trim has much more potential to develop, don't even talk about the Ford GT, or other potential mid engined competitors. Yes racing does improve the breed, but you gotta to keep up with the competition if you want to stay in the game, losing is bad for the corporate image and in the end, sales.
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12:14 AM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Originally posted by Mike Murphy: This was a prototype done in the early 90's that was at the GM Heritage Center several people from the Michigan Fiero Club hosted in the fall of 2005 that my son and I attended. This is a mid engine vette that they had on display so it has been done before but never become a reality.
Damn, that's hot!
That looks like the cars they said we'd be driving in the 2000's.... minus the hover ability.
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12:29 AM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Originally posted by fieroluv: I wouldn't even call those supercars. My idea of a supercar is something in the neighborhood of S7, Mclaren F1, Enzo, Bugati Veyron, etc.
Okay, supercar pricing begins at $500k.
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12:31 AM
Austrian Import Member
Posts: 3919 From: Monterey, CA Registered: Feb 2007
Someone is going to build an awesome Mid-engined car: Audi R8. That's a beautiful and worthy competitor to the Porsche 911.
They already make a Mid-engined car that competes with the Corvette: It's another worthy competior: Porsche Cayman (aka.: "Cockster" -Jeremy Clarkson) Another story of a great car being made not to compete with the flagship (in this case 911), but rather fill a niche. Gladly I'm sure Ruf, or other Tuners will make the Cayman what it's meant to be. Current issue at newsstands of "Modified Luxury and Exotics" has an article about a tuner putting in the engine from the Gt3. That must be an awesome car.
My other bet was on Daimler Chrysler making a mid engined car: It was called the Dodge Slingshot http://www.allpar.com/cars/concepts/slingshot.html <-- article on that. That's the closest to the original Pontiac Fiero idea.
(unfortunately both these projects above got canceled for production )
I didn't mention Opel Speedster/Vauxhall Vx220 because it's more of a Lotus Elise than a Fiero type daily driver. (I think it would be good under the Saturn badge though)
I doubt that GM would risk making another mid engine Fiero type car. The company is barely struggling to stay alive, so it won't take any great risks in the "bread and butter" competitive price niche. If that's a good decision or not, I don't know, but I don't think that GM's structure has changed much since DeLorean's "On a clear day you can see GM" days.
Then again, I'm not quite sure if I would want GM to make a car that I would buy. I would then support a company that does things I don't agree with. (i.e.: Killing the EV1, killing off the Fiero) An economics professor in high school told me "you vote with your $'s. If you buy things from a company you're basically telling them they're doing a good job and they should keep doing what their doing. If you don't buy things from that company, they will be forced to rethink their strategy and build something that you agree with, or die. Unless they'll build another Fiero type car (under $30k price range and incorporating the above). That would be awesome.
-M
[This message has been edited by Austrian Import (edited 04-13-2007).]
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01:49 AM
blackrams Member
Posts: 32158 From: Covington, TN, USA Registered: Feb 2003
Originally posted by jscott1: I might argue your math a little bit... You don't have to spend $65K to get a Z06, there are low miles used ones for less than half that. And I don't think there are many, if any Fieros running in the 11 flat for under $7K easily. At that power level Fieros are going to need a lot of beef up parts or it will be blowing trannies left and right. And after all that you still have a 20 year old car that is going to need brakes, suspension, interior, paint, etc, before it's as nice as that low miles Z06, so I think the price differential is less than you think...the Fiero might even cost more.
As much as I love my Formulas, I have to agree with jscott. Now back to your normally scheduled programing.
------------------ Ron Land of the Free because of the Brave. Most gave some, some gave all. Some ran the other way.
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03:48 AM
CaliforniaSpeeder9 Member
Posts: 1523 From: San Jose, California Registered: Feb 2005
Theyve made quite a few mid engine corvette concepts. Its a shame this blue one never made it. My god its pretty. Looks like a Camaro had sex with an NSX lol
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[This message has been edited by CaliforniaSpeeder9 (edited 04-13-2007).]
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04:10 AM
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rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
They made another even earlier one, I believe middle or late 60s that looked like a 917 Porsche. It could have been the Aerovette, but seemed to me it looked different. Ive seen it a few times at a big all Corvette weekend they have at a dealership here. UGLY. Word is their is also a new version C6 coming out next year that starts about $125,000. I cant remember what its called...Not Z06.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 04-13-2007).]
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06:53 AM
hyperv6 Member
Posts: 6091 From: Clinton, OH, USA Registered: Mar 2003
The debate comes up with every Corvette design of the Corvette.
The C7 will be front engine and RWD no AWD. They already stated that their is nothing to gain with midengine but added cost so do not expect it no or in any forceable future.
The only one who may see a car like this is Caddy and the odds are not very good.
If the RWD front engine car will be doing 0-60 in 3 sec and pull over 1 G with a 50/50 blalnced platform then why trash tradition and mnake a car that cost more to build? The Vette is a super car for the masses and will remain so with a traditional layout.
And again no the Fiero will not replace the Solstice. There is nothing wrong with the Solstice but the roof.
GM has tested the mid-engined Vette several times...back in the mid '70's with the 4 rotor engined concept, the late '70's or early '80s the the XP-895 concept...they always decide against it....
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07:58 AM
blackrams Member
Posts: 32158 From: Covington, TN, USA Registered: Feb 2003
Originally posted by hyperv6: The C7 will be front engine and RWD no AWD. They already stated that their is nothing to gain with midengine but added cost so do not expect it no or in any forceable future.
If the RWD front engine car will be doing 0-60 in 3 sec and pull over 1 G with a 50/50 blalnced platform then why trash tradition and mnake a car that cost more to build? The Vette is a super car for the masses and will remain so with a traditional layout.
The second paragraph quoted above makes a whole lot of sense. Even though I love mid-engined cars. The first paragraph referencing RWD versus AWD is a natural progression IMO. The funny thing is GM never listens to any of the advice I give them. Hmm, I wonder if it has anything to do with not buying any (new) GM products in the last 15 to 20 years.
Ron
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 04-13-2007).]
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08:20 AM
Cheever3000 Member
Posts: 12400 From: The Man from Tallahassee Registered: Aug 2001
Heheh... at the auto shows, they were plenty miffed at all the comparisons of the Solstice to the Fiero... imagine how they would feel when they bring out a mid-engine Corvette and all anyone says it "It's a new Fiero". Boy, wouldn't they be happy to hear that.
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09:23 AM
86_IRM_TURBO Member
Posts: 487 From: Commerce Township, MI, USA Registered: Dec 2006
Wow! What a great thread! After years of working on J cars and mid-sized sedans, I finally get to work on the flagship program. The C6 is such a fine machine, it's going to be fun making the C7 even better.
And yes, comparing an 11 second Fiero and a Z06? They are just not from the same fruit basket. I love my Fiero..... ....but a C6 Vette it is NOT! I never wanted to own a Vette B4, but now a used Yellow C6 Z06 seems like an excellent idea.
Keep reading the Mags, they'll eventually have all the correct info.
Go to your local Chevy dealer and buy one today. Spring is in the air! (Mixed with snowflakes) LOL
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09:44 AM
blackrams Member
Posts: 32158 From: Covington, TN, USA Registered: Feb 2003
this is pretty close to the corvette being a mid engine car. i saw this in the latest issue of grass roots motorsports magazine, but i found it here too.
A mid-engine Corvette would most likely cost more than the existing model. What's more, some purists would almost certainly decry such a major change, considering its impact on handling and exterior styling.
The marketing guys at GM wouldnt have anything to do with this, obviously us fiero guys should see right through this idea before anything. The vette is going to be front engine RWD, untill it is turned into somthing else, which as we know wont happen as any other mid engine sports car would never be made by gm because it would directly compete with the vette. If GM learned anything, when they killed the fiero, that the mid engine design was a really nice idea for a flagship sports car for a few reasons.
first off, europe has been doing the mid engine thing before we were making model T's, and they seem to have fairly good luck with their setups around the time of the fiero and they still compete with todays vette even though the vette is starting to outperform them based due to the technology advancements it has seen.
Second, if GM wanted to go mid engine, I would of expected them to do it in the early 90's late 80's as they had alot of their P-body space frame manufacturing dye's left around, phased out the fiero due to their competition to the vette, and the vette also was suffering from a severe performance loss most of gm cars saw around the time. While right now they see a traction improvment in the mid engine ls7 setup, I think the front engine rwd design will compelement different motor setups alot better, IE a real dohc ls motor, or some factory supercharged setups. As we know, the mid engine only offers modest traction improvments which would not be worth the overwelming cost of building a compelete chassis, and power delivery system, the only thing that would be somewhat cheap or easy.
If for some strange reason they made these cars, which they wont, I would expect them to cost well over $50,000 more than the current 06 zo6, just due to all of the custom machine work they will do. If anything I think GM would be more likely to offer it as a completely different car, like the SSR truck or somthing along that line (but if it competes with the vette, marketing will kill it just as fast as our fiero was killed).
Just my thoughts. Either way I will still be driving my Fieros.
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As much as I love my Formulas, I have to agree with jscott. 
Sure feels like it. 
