------------------ My Web page | The Turbo Super Duty Build. You know that little voice that says it can't be done? I duct-taped its mouth shut and pushed it down a flight of stairs.
[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 06-07-2007).]
IP: Logged
07:05 PM
PFF
System Bot
joshua riedl Member
Posts: 1426 From: watertown wi USA Registered: Jan 2004
Perhaps the engine was not built to be a hp monster. Then again why dyno it if hp is not a concern. If it is a concern then the motor is definantly lacking something . . .cam . . . heads . . . . tune . . . exhaust . . . . . . .
------------------ REMEMBER KIDS 4.9 ARE NOT SBC's
IP: Logged
08:45 PM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Originally posted by FIEROPHREK:If it is a concern then the motor is definantly lacking something . . .cam . . . heads . . . . tune . . . exhaust . . . . . . .
It's funny that Shaunbag has his nutswingers come over here and post his garbage.
Did he happen to tell you guys that his best friend is the guy running the Dyno?
Did he mention that he didn't run his own car on the Dyno?
Did he mention that every since that event, Frank Martin has been trying to get the data sheets on exactly what the settings were on the Dyno for each car as it was put on the Dyno?
Did any of you bigshots ever wonder why all the posts in RFT vs teh World were deleted right after Daytona?
Ask Shaunbag what the FL Attorney Generals office said to him when the contacted him about all his libelous comments?
You say the threads were just deleted, nope boys, they were locked down. They were put away, so the Attorney Generals office couldn't view them anymore.
You idiots are being used so bad & Shaunbag is just laughing at you more than anyone.
Funny, how Shaunbag says anything he wants & you guys are too scared to demand proof from him.
Archie ------------------ After Shaunbag is exposed as having asked Archie for a job as a Slack-Jawed Yokel Archie sings ......... so I pulled off my hat & said imagine that, you workin' for meeeee. Lies, lies........
[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 06-07-2007).]
IP: Logged
09:30 PM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Awesome. I'm a "Shaunbag nutswinger" now. Don't expect any referrals from me if you're going to resort to name calling.
quote
Originally posted by Archie: Funny, how Shaunbag says anything he wants & you guys are too scared to demand proof from him.
Stimpy closed a thread on RFT because Shaun couldn't substantiate his claims that you went bankrupt.
Back ON topic, the black soot spewing out of the tail pipes is an obvious indication that tuning is needed. Badly. Since carbs are so easily tuned with a screwdriver, I'm surprised this wasn't done on the spot. Okay, not really.....
IP: Logged
09:52 PM
Will Member
Posts: 14249 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
I'd like to learn the reason it is making so little power. The torque should be much higher than it is being a 377 sbc.
What are the datails behind the 377? 400 block? 350 block? Crank? Compression ratio?
The same or more torque can be made with a 279ci northstar.
377 is a 350 crank in a 400 block. Chevy never offered this combo in production, so it is a built engine BY DEFINITION.
quote
Originally posted by FIEROPHREK:
Perhaps the engine was not built to be a hp monster. Then again why dyno it if hp is not a concern. If it is a concern then the motor is definantly lacking something . . .cam . . . heads . . . . tune . . . exhaust . . . . . . .
Since this is a built engine, simply by fact of being a 377, I'd have to guess that HP was definitely a concern.
IP: Logged
09:55 PM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
Awesome. I'm a "Shaunbag nutswinger" now. Don't expect any referrals from me if you're going to resort to name calling.
You're a nutswinger when you come here to do Shaunbags durty work because he's too afraid to do it himself.
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:
Stimpy closed a thread on RFT because Shaun couldn't substantiate his claims that you went bankrupt.
Yeah, Stimpy is the only one who's had the guts to demand of Shaunbag what Shaunbag demands of others "PROOF".
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:
Back ON topic, the black soot spewing out of the tail pipes is an obvious indication that tuning is needed. Badly. Since carbs are so easily tuned with a screwdriver, I'm surprised this wasn't done on the spot. Okay, not really.....
This is on topic, are you the only one here that doesn't understand this thread is about bashing?
All the rest of this has already been discussed in the D7 Dyno thread.
------------------ After Shaunbag is exposed as having asked Archie for a job as a Slack-Jawed Yokel Archie sings ......... so I pulled off my hat & said imagine that, you workin' for meeeee. Lies, lies........
IP: Logged
10:25 PM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
377 is a 350 crank in a 400 block. Chevy never offered this combo in production, so it is a built engine BY DEFINITION.
Since this is a built engine, simply by fact of being a 377, I'd have to guess that HP was definitely a concern.
Well, you know how Shaunbag is all the time giving out mis-information & telling lies............ Wellllll during the several weeks running up to the Daytona show, I did a little Shaunbagging. I told everyone it was a 377 but it actually is just a 350 crank in a 350 block.
In these 2 pics you can see that it only has 2 freeze plugs. Thus indicating that it's a non 400 block. Pictures of this engine were posted up in a build thread & Shaunbag & his boys never even noticed that it wasn't a 400 block. Shaunbag, the expert doesn't even know how to tell a 400 block from a 350 block. So you better explain it to them.
Additionally it's an 8.5-1 C.R. engine that I took out of another car & stuck the B.G. Carb on.
So, it would appear that Shaunbag has been bagged.
Archie
------------------ After Shaunbag is exposed as having asked Archie for a job as a Slack-Jawed Yokel Archie sings ......... so I pulled off my hat & said imagine that, you workin' for meeeee. Lies, lies........
[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 06-07-2007).]
IP: Logged
11:15 PM
Steven Snyder Member
Posts: 3324 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Mar 2004
Why go through that effort to make it look like your cars underperform?
Actually it wasn't all that much trouble. That engine was going into that car anyway. And I made a post showing the engine and calling it a 377 to see if anyone was paying attention. I more or less forgot all about it until the Dyno discussion came up for D7.
Since that was a car I was thinking about taking to D7, I decided to do some Shaunbaggin to the Shaunbagger hisself.
My customers know how the cars preform. Lots of them have Dyno sheets & Time slips. They don't post them up because they don't want to listen to the crap that you RFT'ers put out everytime someone posts up.
Shaunbag has never driven or even rode in a properly built SBC Fiero, yet you guys hang on his every word. This is only proof once again that he really has no clue what he's talking about.
I only brought it up now because with Will's earlier post, he might be the only RFT'er that knows what a 400 block looks like.
Archie
------------------ After Shaunbag is exposed as having asked Archie for a job as a Slack-Jawed Yokel Archie sings ......... so I pulled off my hat & said imagine that, you workin' for meeeee. Lies, lies........
My customers know how the cars preform. Lots of them have Dyno sheets & Time slips. They don't post them up because they don't want to listen to the crap that you RFT'ers put out everytime someone posts up.
They're scared that they might be slammed for paying rediculous prices for your kit, to get about the same amount of wheel horsepower as an SRT-4. They don't post because of the crappy numbers they've produced on the Dyno, and when it is posted? Low and behold, they're CRAPPY numbers.
Then comes the load of excuses about the dyno being off, or the climate, etc, etc.
I'll stick with my Supercharged Ecotec Cobalt SS that makes about the same to the wheels, and gets better gas mileage too.
There are better alternatives out there it seems, out of the vast variety of engines available to swap into a Fiero, it's known that only the hard core "Hot Rodders" or "Boyd Coddington Wanabes" will pay so much for so little. What's the appeal? The V8 sound? It certainly isn't the bad gas mileage, or the percieved lack of horsepower...
Let's take Crzyone for an example: He spends about as much as you would be spending on your kit, and engine to do his northstar swap... Low and Behold? The car makes more power, more Torque and will run Faster in the 1/4 mile.
Archie, why don't you do something DIFFERENT? Why not strive to be the best, make the most HP, etc. You would get my attention if I saw a Fiero that make 600 hp at the wheels, why can't you or won't you do it? All I've smelt over 5 years is stink. SBC's should be making more power and you know it. So why the excuses? Let's see it.
If you're going to lie about your product, wouldn't it be a better idea to lie so it makes your work look BETTER? I don't see the logic in lying about your work so it looks worse. Why not call it a 305, that would look better.
IP: Logged
02:28 AM
crzyone Member
Posts: 3571 From: Alberta, Canada Registered: Dec 2000
Well, you know how Shaunbag is all the time giving out mis-information & telling lies............ Wellllll during the several weeks running up to the Daytona show, I did a little Shaunbagging. I told everyone it was a 377 but it actually is just a 350 crank in a 350 block.
Wow....
There was a time I respected you. I had an LT1 all ready to be put into my fiero, sent money to you for the video so I could see how involved the install was... Never got the vid or my money back.
I was really curious to why a 377ci sbc was only making that much power only to be called a shaunbag nutswinger. Either you are making wild excuses for your "377" or you really did make a lame attempt to fool shaun.
So what is it? Is it a 350 out of a 1983 truck with spraypaint or are you claiming the dyno operator purposly messed with your numbers? Your story is not adding up.
IP: Logged
02:32 AM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
What is the story here? Why would you lie about what motor you had in at the first place (the dyno operator was your best friend, so now lies there unless they were intentional) now that it underpreformed to what even a stock 350 would preform, your now chaning your story to show that you then lied about what motor was orgianaly thought to be in it, to cover the fact it just dyno'ed a junk number for having 3x the cubic inches of comperable dyno'ing motors.
IP: Logged
03:04 AM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
it underpreformed to what even a stock 350 would preform
Define "stock 350" please. Do you have any idea how many different versions there have been of the 350 over the years? With "stock" HP ratings from around 150 HP to at least 370 HP.
The dyno vid shows 230 RWHP. I don't know the specs on the engine, and I can't tell the difference between a 350 and 400 block by the freeze plugs, but I do know a GM Goodwrench crate 350 is rated about 265 HP (IIRC - I'll double check that and edit, if needed). So, 230HP from an engine rated at 250 - 260 HP would seem right on the numbers. If that's the setup Archie had. The 8.5:1 CR suggests it's a Goodwrench engine or similar build.
By comparison, Orief has a ZZ4 rated at 355 HP and his put over 300 HP to the rear wheels.
Speed costs money. The difference between a 200 HP 350 and a 400 HP 350 is just how wide you want to open your wallet.
Originally posted by Formula88: Speed costs money. The difference between a 200 HP 350 and a 400 HP 350 is just how wide you want to open your wallet.
yes - we all know that 350's can perform - so the reason shaun hassles archie so much is because archies swaps don't perform and he makes silly excuses for them all the while he says rediculous things like how "v8's make so much power that they don't need things like cold air intakes" then slapps a poorly tuned carb on it, some crush bent exhaust, and talks it up like its the best thing since sliced bread.
I once wanted a v8 fiero and contacted archie (some 9 years ago) but was turned off by his attitude and the rediculous claims he makes. i'd rather have a 400whp v6 than a 200whp v8
IP: Logged
07:38 AM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
They're scared that they might be slammed for paying rediculous prices for your kit, to get about the same amount of wheel horsepower as an SRT-4. They don't post because of the crappy numbers they've produced on the Dyno, and when it is posted? Low and behold, they're CRAPPY numbers.
Then comes the load of excuses about the dyno being off, or the climate, etc, etc.
I'll stick with my Supercharged Ecotec Cobalt SS that makes about the same to the wheels, and gets better gas mileage too.
There are better alternatives out there it seems, out of the vast variety of engines available to swap into a Fiero, it's known that only the hard core "Hot Rodders" or "Boyd Coddington Wanabes" will pay so much for so little. What's the appeal? The V8 sound? It certainly isn't the bad gas mileage, or the percieved lack of horsepower...
Let's take Crzyone for an example: He spends about as much as you would be spending on your kit, and engine to do his northstar swap... Low and Behold? The car makes more power, more Torque and will run Faster in the 1/4 mile.
Archie, why don't you do something DIFFERENT? Why not strive to be the best, make the most HP, etc. You would get my attention if I saw a Fiero that make 600 hp at the wheels, why can't you or won't you do it? All I've smelt over 5 years is stink. SBC's should be making more power and you know it. So why the excuses? Let's see it.
Ever notice how Shaunna always forgets that there are other V-8 Fieros that actually have dyno'd and or ran on the track that are faster then he claims? Oh that's right, That would go against what he is attempting to claim.
This is what gets me, Shaunna always complains that V-8 swaps are low horsepower and that the engines are not built right then he blames Archie. The problem is Archie never claims to be an "engine builder" all he does is make a kit to install a Chevy small block V-8 into a Fiero. He just uses crate engines or owner supplied engines. If the person who buys the kit installs a 250-270hp LM1 engine (or has Archie install the kit/engine for them) of course it's going to only put out low 200hp to the wheels. Also if the owner comes up and says he has a 400hp motor to install and then uses Archie's kit but later dyno's less, How is it Archie's fault? Did the guy show engine dyno's to prove the engine was a 400hp engine to begin with?? Does Archie really need to care what the owner "claims" the engine makes? It is up to the owner to decide what engine to use. As for the kit, Tina has a built 383 and dyno'd over 400 rwhp. She has been racing the car on a drag strip for a number of years. Aside from a few transaxles being killed, The actual Archie kit has held up fine. The transaxles breaking has nothing to do with the V-8 install, It is a factor of power. FieroX doesn't have a V-8 but he has one screaming turbo V-6 and still has problems getting all the power to the ground. MotorTV has a built up Turbo LT1 and has no problems with the install kit as well. I have had my car for 2 years now without any problems. It's been to the strip a few times and on a road course a few time with no problems and nothing has broken.
The engine in that car is most likely a standard low compression 350. It hit 230 rwhp which is right in line with the 265-270hp rating for a typical LM1 carb'd engine.
Never saw Crzyone's numbers, Anyone know what they are?
EDIT: How about an LS1 Fiero with nitrous?: (It's all about what engine you put in.)
[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 06-08-2007).]
IP: Logged
07:55 AM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
yes - we all know that 350's can perform - so the reason shaun hassles archie so much is because archies swaps don't perform and he makes silly excuses for them all the while he says rediculous things like how "v8's make so much power that they don't need things like cold air intakes" then slapps a poorly tuned carb on it, some crush bent exhaust, and talks it up like its the best thing since sliced bread.
I once wanted a v8 fiero and contacted archie (some 9 years ago) but was turned off by his attitude and the rediculous claims he makes. i'd rather have a 400whp v6 than a 200whp v8
When you say "archies [sic] swaps don't perform" what are you referring to? The mounts he uses? The adapter plate? There's nothing magical about a Fiero that suddenly takes a 400 HP engine and turns it into a 200 HP engine when installed with an Archie kit. If the owner buys a 250 HP V8, then they'll get a 250 HP swap. If they buy a 400 HP V8, they'll get a 400 HP swap. Orief's dyno results are proof enough of that.
I've never seen in any of Archie's ads or on his website where it says he designs and builds his own engines. He installs the engine the customer chooses. He will order a new engine for you, but again, it's what the customer orders.
If someone wants to see Archie build a 600 HP monster, I'm sure he'd be willing to oblige once your credit card is approved.
IP: Logged
08:57 AM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Also note that the 3.4L DOHC and the stock 3800SC engines also ran lower than normal numbers. This is why Frank was looking to see what the cal factors were. It isn't just Archie's V-8 that looked low, The 3.4DOHC was 30% lower and the 3800SC was 36% lower.
Finally, How come nobody has noticed that Archie drove back to Illinois and ran at a local dyno shop with a more accurate set-up and gained 20rwhp???? So the 230rwhp is now 250rwhp.
[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 06-08-2007).]
IP: Logged
09:39 AM
PFF
System Bot
Alex4mula Member
Posts: 7403 From: Canton, MI US Registered: Dec 1999
Usually the people that bash more the V8s are the ones who know less about them. They just post such ignorant comments. Unbeleivable. Unless you have a muscle car era V8 in perfect condition (late 60s to maybe 71) or a late LSx you aint gonna get an SBC putting big HP numbers to the wheels. Then those muscle car era Gen I engines HP #s were gross. All those truck Gen I SBCs, LM1s, target etc. put good torque but low HP. If you want even 300rwhp in any of those you need to change a lot of things. The ZZ4 gets there but it has good heads, intake and cam for it. My TPI got there too but I have one of the best heads and great cam & lots of intake. In other words $$. I'm the first one to laugh when someone says/post/signs to have a 400HP V8 with no dyno sheet as I know those are few. But I guess most people here just know a little of V6 and that's it. Read and get educated on SBCs before you make ignorant comments. And yes, Archie's kit never failed on me and nohwere in the video or documentation it promises to add/make big HP
IP: Logged
10:00 AM
crzyone Member
Posts: 3571 From: Alberta, Canada Registered: Dec 2000
We are talking about a 377ci sbc OR a bad dyno operator. Which is it? Did he have a 377 and a bad dyno or a stocker 350 trying to fool shaun??? The story is going 2 different ways.
My car has not hit a dyno yet, my attention has been on my Skyline GTR, maybe in a few weeks I'll put some insurance on my fiero and take it to a dyno. It still needs fine tuning on the standalone. I would be not be happy with anything below 280whp, and expect to get closer to 300whp.
IP: Logged
12:21 PM
crzyone Member
Posts: 3571 From: Alberta, Canada Registered: Dec 2000
Also note that the 3.4L DOHC and the stock 3800SC engines also ran lower than normal numbers. This is why Frank was looking to see what the cal factors were. It isn't just Archie's V-8 that looked low, The 3.4DOHC was 30% lower and the 3800SC was 36% lower.
Finally, How come nobody has noticed that Archie drove back to Illinois and ran at a local dyno shop with a more accurate set-up and gained 20rwhp???? So the 230rwhp is now 250rwhp.
Link doesn't work for me. What I was talking about was nobody has posted his "redyno" of this 20hp gain. Curves can move up and down with calibration, but if their shape changes, you'll know something was changed on the engine.
IP: Logged
12:27 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
The link worked after D7. He may have taken them down since then. I don't remember if I saved the dyno sheets on my PC or not, but I'll check.
crzyone: You asked the details - Archie said it's an 8.5:1 compression 350, not a 377 as previously stated. He also said Frank Martin couldn't get the dyno operator to give him the setup for each car. That combined with the dyno operator being a personal friend of Shaunna's and Shaunna punking out and not running his own car, along with the low readings others also noticed bring the dyno results into question. Even so, if it's an 8.5:1 350, 230 RWHP is within reason, if a little low.
The story's not going in 2 directions. There's more than 1 person involved here. Archie sandbagging and calling his engine a 377 apparently to mess with Shaunna, and Frank being unable to get the dyno info from the dyno operator. Both may be true.
Does that about cover it?
IP: Logged
01:46 PM
crzyone Member
Posts: 3571 From: Alberta, Canada Registered: Dec 2000
Talk about a few members being very childish. Archie sandbagging only made him look bad. How many people who showed up at the dyno who will never see this tread left disappointed seeing a "377" put down 230hp? Can't see that being good for business.
My questions were answered, if Archie is telling the truth. Who knows? He has already lied once.
IP: Logged
01:55 PM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
When you say "archies [sic] swaps don't perform" what are you referring to? The mounts he uses? The adapter plate? There's nothing magical about a Fiero that suddenly takes a 400 HP engine and turns it into a 200 HP engine when installed with an Archie kit. If the owner buys a 250 HP V8, then they'll get a 250 HP swap. If they buy a 400 HP V8, they'll get a 400 HP swap. Orief's dyno results are proof enough of that.
I've never seen in any of Archie's ads or on his website where it says he designs and builds his own engines. He installs the engine the customer chooses. He will order a new engine for you, but again, it's what the customer orders.
If someone wants to see Archie build a 600 HP monster, I'm sure he'd be willing to oblige once your credit card is approved.
exactly. my old suburban had a 350 with under 200 HP. if I gave that to Archie to put into my Fiero - guess what the HP would be? yup...under 200....
the only issue with SBC's in Fiero's is the exhaust manifolds. you dont have room for decent headers. this is one thing that would "hinder" performance. and, this applies to ALL SBC Fiero's - not just Archies.
and, noone is stopping anyone else from installing whatever they want in their own Fiero.
nothing but pure green jealousy. it happens everywhere with everything. those who "can do" try to bash those who "can buy". there is nothing wrong with buying what ya want, instead of building what ya want - the end result is - you get what you want.
IP: Logged
02:05 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Talk about a few members being very childish. Archie sandbagging only made him look bad. How many people who showed up at the dyno who will never see this tread left disappointed seeing a "377" put down 230hp? Can't see that being good for business.
My questions were answered, if Archie is telling the truth. Who knows? He has already lied once.
You asked. You got answers. That you didn't like the answers, well, I can't help that. Whether or not you believe Archie is up to you. We do know this. The engine can't be both a 350 and a 377, so you can make your own decision about which you want to believe. You make a 377 by putting a 350 crank in a 400 block. If a 400 block has 3 freeze plugs, and the "377" has 2 freeze plugs, then it can't be a 377, can it?
Archie's reasoning for saying or doing anything are his own - and really don't have anything to do with your initial question, do they?
IP: Logged
02:43 PM
crzyone Member
Posts: 3571 From: Alberta, Canada Registered: Dec 2000
All I have to say is that the motor in the video is definitly out of tune, obvious by the black smoke in the upper rpm range.
With a good dyno tune the engine could easily pick up 20+hp. Thats what dynos are for, tuning. Its a benefit that you get to see your power at the wheels. Adjusting a carb by ear is not an accurate tuning method.
[This message has been edited by crzyone (edited 06-08-2007).]
.JPG)
.JPG)
