Enclosed are some pics of two sets of headers (Sanderson CC90). In the 5 years that I have had my LT1, these headers are always cracking. It took 1 1/2 to 2 years for the first cracks to show up. After welding them, they lasted just a few months than cracked again.
Not having the money at the time for a replacement, we just built up the weld in vain.
The first pic is the first set that I had.



The second pic is the second set of headers that are 1 1/2 years old.


Another view of the same crack


While the car is in the shop for some tweaking a set of old Vette Rams Horn headers are on the way via Archie.
Cast iron so no more cracking.

In case your interested, I called Sanderson Headers on the phone and talked to the B---h from hell and got nowhere. According to Sanderson, my car is running VERY lean or the eng is running VERY hot or I installed them wrong. So much for aftermarket support.

So to anyone installing a SBC or considering using CC90 headers, STAY AWAY from them.

Disclaimer: There are probably some CC90 users that have had no problems, but I have not met them yet.

I have had mine for almost 3 years now and no problems yet.
It is rarely driven in the rain and never in winter.
Just seeing if weather conditions or factors like a wet decklid opening onto a hot manifold is a possible cause.

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Happiness isn't around the corner...
Happiness IS the corner.
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I drive the car about 10,000 miles a year and try not to drive in the rain if possible. Both the front and rear headers crack.

Winter? What is that?

I too have had multiple issues with cracking headers (two different styles) in about the same location and went with a set of speedway motors cast stainless steel manifolds. I drive my car all the time and even in the rain, so I wanted something I just never had to worry about again.



https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/064773.html

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 08-15-2007).]

quote Originally posted by LT188GT: Winter? What is that?

That's the time of the year you can walk bare foot at the beach. That sand just gets too hot this time of year. Sandals are a must.


I have the 2.5" ram horns because of the cracking issues of headers.

[This message has been edited by KissMySSFiero (edited 08-15-2007).]

You may have better luck welding those if you bolt them up and heat them with a torch pretty good then weld them. After the weld keep the torch on the whole area weld and surrounding so it doesn't cool fast.

I'm told pinging it with a hammer while it is really hot will help relieve the stress also.

I had them on my 355 small block in my old fiero and no issues, they even went thru a fire that pretty much destroy'd the car, and they held up with only a little flaking of the coating

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AIM:Onefast2M8
86 GT SC 3800 Intercooled
02 Jetta 1.8t

Are CC90's built differently between engines?
I just looked at mine on my ZZ4 and they appear to be made differently than your pics. Mine has all 4 tubes welded to a flat plate the shape of the collector and the "Sanderson" name plate below the welded area. It looks like the plate is tack welded on the two outside just to keep it in place. It's not all filled in compared to 2nd set pics.

Here is a down-angle pic:




So has anyone else had theirs crack? If so, Did the crack in the same spot?

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 08-15-2007).]

Let me guess- it is the front manifold that cracked. Hot manifolds plus cold rain water = crack. You can solve this problem by re-installing the deck lid weatherstip along the front where it meets the rear window and don't open the deck in a rainstorm. Whatever product you have for a front manifold won't last under continued hot and cold shocks that cause massive metal expansion and contraction.

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87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds
2006 3800SC Series III swap in progress
Engine Controls, PCM goodies,
re-programming & odd electronics stuff
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

quote Originally posted by LT188GT: After welding them, they lasted just a few months than cracked again. Not having the money at the time for a replacement, we just built up the weld in vain.

Actually, a good weld should be stronger than cast. Welding over a crack is just covering up the crack. A crack needs to be welded correctly. Like "v"ed out before welding. Something like that. I am no welder. Also correct prep work.

quote Originally posted by LT188GT: While the car is in the shop for some tweaking a set of old Vette Rams Horn headers are on the way via Archie. Cast iron so no more cracking.

Archie is a better man than I. I do not know the headers of which you speak. I have cast iron manifolds...ram horn manifolds, on my 70 Chevrolet P/U. Cast iron also cracks. Due to heat and what not else. The cracks that I have seen are more mid material, usually on the backside. Not in a joint such as you pictured, which cast has no "joints" so to speak.
Again, Archie is the man. I am also no welder. I had not heard of Vette ram horn headers. I just wanted to point out that cast can crack.

Because of the way we have to setup the exhaust pipe routing in the Fiero, it creates a pretty solid "U" section between the head collectors. The connecting pipes to the headers have to be "dead on" with no forcing to get into position to bolt up. This is complicated by the fact that no two sets of Sanderson are exactly the same in the dimensional department, meaning new exhaust fabrication, if you have to replace a set.

My first set of Sanderson's lasted approx 10 years before cracking, second set lasted only 1 season, or about 4,000 miles. The reason was that the shop had for use some force to connect one bank. Solution is to add a high quality flex pipe between the banks to take care of the variation, and help with the expansion/contraction that happens even time we start up and shut down.

As stated above, crack welding on headers has to be done by someone knowledgable, as materials must blend together, and the area stress relieved. The patch welds are doomed to fail quickly in not done perfectly.

Bottom line is that the Sanderson's are very fussy about correct alignment due to thin wall construction.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: The cracks that I have seen are more mid material, usually on the backside.

Well this is where one does expect to see a crack.

quote Originally posted by California Kid: Because of the way we have to setup the exhaust pipe routing in the Fiero, it creates a pretty solid "U" section between the head collectors. The connecting pipes to the headers have to be "dead on" with no forcing to get into position to bolt up.

I don't build them with cross-over pipes. So there is no solid U section between the header collectors.

Archie

The pics showing the weld repairs are not the results of me doing the welding. The worst thing you can do is have me weld anything.
BOTH front and rear headers cracked on BOTH sets of headers.

CC90 headers are thin compared to a good set of headers. I was told by the welder to expect them to continue to crack.

On the second set, the match up between the header and the exhaust pipe did not match up very good so the muffler shop cut and re-welded the pipe to match the header with NO forcing to bolt them together. Even with this perfect match, they still cracked 1 1/2 years later.

I can post a pic looking straight down like the posted pic above, and they would look identical. It's just all the build up of material over the years in an effort to slow down the cracking.

I know what the problem is, no rust Mine are ok for now, but they are rusty. When they die I will replace them with something better.

headers crack from stress. that is it. welds dont develop cracks from being bad welds - doesnt work like that.
sources of stress are quick temp changes, shifting motor & loose hung exhaust.

any header on a would crack if your motor is mounted on rubber & the exhaust hung on springs. with all that flexing & movement - the joints will be stressed.

one of the reasons the stock 2.8 Fiero headers have the rotatable joints on the y-pipe & spring loaded joint on down pipe. and they still crack. its just one of the joys of headers.....

Maybe a flex joint at the collector would help, if there's room.

Hot headers and no drip guard for the deck lid can cause headers to crack and even make powder coatng flake off!

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[IMG]



Trueleo.com/fiero.htm
RSpiderII@aol.com

I've been looking at the Trueleo headers...









with the jet-hot coating in the 1300 sterling - http://www.jet-hot.com/Pages/coatings.html

Should I be concerned about the quality with this vendor? Trueleo
The workmanship looks very nice and agressive. I'll be going with the 2.5" set up. The coating "sterling" gives a chrome/polished look and if you read the test results it states that it withstands many different elements that coulld cause problems...

What's your feedback. Does anyone have this setup?

Some good reading here. I'm on my second v-8 build and was considering the sanderson cc90.
I'd really like to hear more on the speedway ram horns as far as fit goes when installed in the fiero.
Personally I don't believe there is any disadvantage of useing the stock chevy ram horns.( I have them on the first build)
Thanks for starting this post, it popped up at a good time for me.
Gary

quote Originally posted by GKDINC: I'd really like to hear more on the speedway ram horns as far as fit goes when installed in the fiero.

PM Sent.

BTW The thread link posted above with the pic of the speedway manifolds includes install pics in a fiero, plus cost/part numbers and options available. I have over 5000 miles on them since install and very, very pleased with them!

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 08-16-2007).]

a lot of the cracking problems associated with tubular headers or even cast iron ones
can be attributed to the over tightening of the exhaust flange bolts or nuts which wont
allow for expansion and contraction. I use a locking style and never torque more than
15 to 20 lbs. So far 4 years on homemade turbo manifolds with no cracks.

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87 Fiero GT 5sp with Vortec L35 4300 Turbocharged V6
Bully Stage 2 clutch
Syclone intake manifold and engine management with Moates adapter and chip burner
Air/water intercooler and Devil's Own progressive water/alky injection
50lb injectors, 3 bar map sensor, Walboro fuel pump and Jabasco Intercooler pump
LM1 wideband on custom manifolds and 3" stainless exhaust system
T31/T04B S4 turbo with a Super T61 in the box
S10 caliper conversion.
Murphy's Constant Matter will be damaged in direct proportion to its value
Murphy's Law of Thermodynamics Things get worse under pressure.
Arthur C. Clarke "Any significantly advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

This is my first set after about 5K miles and two years. I drive on rain all the time and didn't have any diverter installed. Lots of water went back there. I bought a second set but this time I installed the water diverter shown in second picture still taped to the windshield and I'm very carefull if the decklid has water. I hope that to extend its life a little. One thing to mention that like other mentioned the second set dimensions were off (on top of my new mounts) so I had to realign (meaing reweld) my exhaust. I have seen these same headers many times at car shows on 57 chevys and some show a little rust but I haven't seen cracks on them. But then they may be mainly show cars not driven that often. I have my original set rewelded but probably next time I just go with the Speedway.

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Red: TPI V8 + 6-Speed Yellow: Nitrous 3.4 + 4 speed Auto
304rwHP/366rwTQ

I have had the exact same problem at LT188GT. But mine cracked on the REAR (trunk) side. Originals lasted about 9 months, rewelded set lasted about 4 months. Now what I did was strip them, had a professional welder reweld them and built up the collector in the area that Orief took a picture of. I also cut the flange between the outer cylinders and the center cylinders to allow any flex there. I'm just hoping they will hold together for a while. Sanderson is absolute junk and customer service sucks really bad.

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Christian Thomas
87 Pontiac Fiero GT Burgandy/Silver 5.7L ZZ4 5spd
301rwhp/345rwtq

Next Mod: 88 suspension, C6 polished wheels, C5 Z06 brakes, Konis, poly'd ...AKA NEW CAR!
06 Cobalt SS/SC w/ LSD

Alex4mula----Remember what I said about cracking headers the last time that I was at your house?
Your pic could be a pic of MY headers as that is only one of the areas that crack. I did not show a pic of my first set of CC90's showing cracks (small ones) coming right off the heads were you install the bolts to hold them on.