Received my ZZP fuel rails today from Matthew_Fiero... So i figured i will just test fit the intercooler to see how everything goes together. I will be finishing the install after i pay some attention to some parts that need painted and have since i did install.
I think i may remove the lower manifold too and use my father in laws mill to match the manifold to the intercooler outlet.
Here are some pics.
ZZP Rails Installed...
Intercooler...
Blower "mounted"
Ruu-Roo Shaggy It does NOT fit in there!
I totally have to come up with some sort of deck lid mod now for SURE!!
------------------ "Raced That, Wrecked Better"~In Memory Of Jesse Cesek~ 1980-2000 US Armored Cavalry - Fox 2/81 - Death By 120 - 1 Shot 1 Kill 3800 SuperCharged Series II Swap, Rare BTTK Intercooler, Thrasher MPS, Fastback Swap
Deffinetly planning on modding the deck lid. I HAD a short stack intercooler but it got STOLEN from me. So i bought this one... with sweet front heat exchanger, hoses and a huge tank (ice tank) all for about 450$!!
FieroGTguy aka Greg - Its just over 2.25... Closer to 2.3" thick. Uses the same core as the ZZP setups do.
The full 2.5" exhaust NO cat and glass pack style mufflers (4" outter dia, 2.5" through) w/ open header silencers (was WAY too loud without them. 4" intake, Thrasher MPS w/ 3.4 pulley that i had bought for the ZZP SS intercooler however i can probably step down to a 3.2 with this IC. I plan to get rockers later this year before the snow hits! Bonus time i would like to get a whipple charger or at least a Gen 5.
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:
It still looks like a cool IC to me, and heck thats a great deal the alum is almost worth that 460.
Yeah, i thought the same thing... After my ZZP SS got stolen i just posted "help need an IC" on ClubGP forums and the prior owner contacted me. Cut price because i went to pick it up (lived bout an hour and a half away).
quote
Originally posted by Jncomutt:
wow, you got the ribbed bttk, nice!!!
Yes this was Jeff Smith's (maker of the BTTK) personal intercooler. His was only one ribbed, 3 others he made had profile cut, rest were rectangular.
quote
Originally posted by FIEROPHREK:
Be sure to post some pics of your lower intake manifold once you get it milled to match your IC. Do you have any plans on porting your blower?
Ill put some pictures and a writup of the machining. Perhaps ill even be able to offer the service to anyone who would like it done. He already said something about offering the flywheel machining since we did it on mine and 2 friends of mine. As for the blower... The coating on the rotors is gone in a small spot... I DID have new rotors and a rebuilt snout BUT they got stolen WITH the ZZP SS IC i had. I figure this blower would need some decent money to bring back to life so i am thinking (as in my reply to Revin) about going with a gen 5 or a Whipple... Or possibly something similar. Thats still open and wont be really decided until i get my fit problem taken care of first.
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03:53 PM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
I have the manual, but ive killed many of them when the fiero was just a stock 2.8L.
What im working toward is this... Around income tax time my dad wants to sell his Blazer. I could use it badly because the kids dont fit well in the BMW or in the Grand Prix... Plus i have a boat that is on a trailer, neither can pull the boat! Sooo i was going to retire the Grand Prix (body has 170k or something close - engine has 65k) then strip down the Grand Prix and save the engine, trans, HUD and various other gadgets for the Fiero. I would rebuild the engine of coarse with forged guts and heads w/ work. Was thinking of using the trans on the fiero too... switch to auto... what other choice do i have? I heard that the G6 tranny can work but that CANT be cheap!
Only reason i was looking at the whipple as a consideration is because i was looking toward the future.
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05:44 PM
Mr.PBody Member
Posts: 3172 From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Registered: Oct 2006
ACK.... For that price i could go to ZZP and get a rebuilt trans with "THE WORKS" done to it which they say guarantee 11 second continuous passes! That would only be 3,460$ LoL
I DID email Archie to see what prices he offers for the 3800 engine. In a thread he had denoted that the kit prices were for LSx engines. Just seems xpensive i guess? I mean the trans bolts TO the 3800 from what i have heard?!
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06:23 PM
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
if you go with the gen 5 then you will need to change your intercooler (or mill it out) the opening is in a diffrent spot. i would hold off on the gen5 swap right now I have a local guy that did one and went from 4* kr to adding 1.9 rockers and a gen 5 with (3.8 pulley) and a n* tb and haveing over 15+ of kr. its not just a swap and drive there is tuneing that needs to be done so you will need a way to tune
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09:23 PM
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
Yeah as i said its not something im going to jump into right away thats for sure. However the guy you know, you didn't mention him having an IC?!? Ill have to look at the outlet difference... The IC core is massive and covers from the end of the m90 outlet to the other side of the boost control bypass. which is why i wanted to mill out the lower manifold... Lot of the IC outlet is covered by the aluminum lower manifold.
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09:51 PM
Aug 25th, 2007
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
are you saying you have a stock LIM? You need to machine out the opening in the LIM, and some like to do the blower to help spread out the load over the fins a bit more.
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01:33 AM
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
are you saying you have a stock LIM? You need to machine out the opening in the LIM, and some like to do the blower to help spread out the load over the fins a bit more.
Yes up a few er so posts i mentioned that machining the LIM was my plan (father in law has mill, weve done flywheels too), however im not sure about the blower. Porting a blower can go very wrong from what i have heard. Im not sure how much gains porting the gen III M90 would give though? I dont think its significant enough to spend the money if im just going to swich in winter..?
Porting a blower can go very wrong from what i have heard. Im not sure how much gains porting the gen III M90 would give though? I dont think its significant enough to spend the money if im just going to swich in winter..?
I think he meant porting the bottom end (outlet) of the blower to allow the air to escape the blower over a larger area,rather than the little triangular opening. I can see where porting the rotors of a S/C could be problematic. If you make it easier for the S/C to draw in air and expell air it will be more efficiant. Heck i bet opening up the bottom end of the blower would help the air stay cooler on its way out. That would also allow the charged air to flow over the entire core of the I/C rather than a small spot directly under the opening.
Like this
Versus this (stock sucks ! )
Not sure how good it will work The dyno will tell once the motor is in and running. My friend and I plan on swapping the S/C's and comparing results.
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ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK
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11:19 AM
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
Yikes, man, not to sound mean... But have you ever researched blower porting? I have read allot about it and what you have now is a chunk of scrap aluminum. In all the readings ive seen you should never move forward past the tip of the arrow head. Otherwise youll just create a giant mixer. This is due to the twisted shape of the rotors.
Here is a very good page on home porting from Club Grand Prix.
::cough:: SHHHH!!! That was the Thrasher kit I am in the works of making a deal with Zoomer! heh
Do you want to trade your bttk IC kit for my Gen 5 with $180 MPS which currently has a 3.4" on it. Rockers, and drop that on will get you right where you want to be. I do LOVE that ice box that shows the coolant flow... Where can I pick one of those up?
PM me your phone # if you'd like to talk.
Greg
[This message has been edited by FieroGTguy (edited 08-25-2007).]
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05:36 PM
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
Actually the "Ice Box" is not much more then a modified fuel cell.
and this is the heat exchanger...
As for the IC, i wouldn't trade it unless there was a HUGELY good deal involved. The IC is sweet, i can contact Jeff Smith again and see if he has dimensions or CAD files for the IC, perhaps i can get a few more made or something?!?
Ill pm you.
[This message has been edited by The Fieromaster (edited 08-25-2007).]
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06:41 PM
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
Well i did some work to the deck lid and it closes now. Its not pretty YET but ill do some finishing work and lay some fiberglass on it to make it look better. I ran into trouble with the throttle cable. Its going to come into contact with the driver side of the decklid... However i am working on the bracked and the linkage and think i have that almost solved. Thankfully the intake WILL clear!!! I just have to remove the spring mount and it will just miss.
Here are some pics...
Here you can see where the hinge hits... Its just low enough though to clear the louvered grill.
Another shot of the hinge...
I marked the decklid and the hinge with a paint marker for the cuts...
Here is the cutout...
Another shot of the cutout...
The decklid installed and clearing the blower...
Another shot of the clearence...
A crappy shot but there is 1.5 inches give or take clearance between the blower and the deck...
Here is the hinge after i cut off the mounts for the hinge over travel cable...
Well thats it for now... Work on it more tomorrow...
[This message has been edited by The Fieromaster (edited 08-26-2007).]
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06:57 PM
FieroGTguy Member
Posts: 3087 From: Indianapolis , IN Registered: Mar 2001
Hmm... I knew it looked like a fuel cell, but I thought there might be a messed section to keep ice from clogging up the system. Could that happen? heh I know it wouldn't clog for long, but it would strain the pump. Or is it not an issue anyone else have worried about?
Greg
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07:04 PM
FieroGTguy Member
Posts: 3087 From: Indianapolis , IN Registered: Mar 2001
I think my mod will do just fine. These blowers have giant open bottoms too
Man thats one big pile of scrap aluminum
quote
Originally posted by FieroGTguy: Hmm... I knew it looked like a fuel cell, but I thought there might be a messed section to keep ice from clogging up the system. Could that happen? heh I know it wouldn't clog for long, but it would strain the pump. Or is it not an issue anyone else have worried about?
Greg
A cool can has a coiled section of aluminum tubing inside. When you put the ice into the can it doesn't mix with the coolant flowing through your intercooler. The ice cools the coils in the can and as the coolant flows through the coils its temperature is dropped even further. I'm not sure how that fuel cell was modded into a cool can though. Or are people just dumping a bag of ice into thier intercooler cooling system?
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ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK
[This message has been edited by FIEROPHREK (edited 08-25-2007).]
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07:54 PM
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
Those blower rotors are totally different design then the M90 big part being the m90 has 60* spiral rotors. I am again not trying to be a jerk, i hope it works well for you... I just remember reading a thread where some kid opened the arrow head up ALLOT (not as much as yours) and he got zero boost afterwards.
As for the water tank... i called it an ice box. It has a large filter at the bottom so it picks up no ice chunks but yes, dump in a bag of ice... Its the quickest way to supercool the coolant water.
[This message has been edited by The Fieromaster (edited 08-25-2007).]
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11:01 PM
Aug 26th, 2007
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
Hmm... I knew it looked like a fuel cell, but I thought there might be a messed section to keep ice from clogging up the system. Could that happen? heh I know it wouldn't clog for long, but it would strain the pump. Or is it not an issue anyone else have worried about?
Greg
There is a large filter that stops the ice chunks from getting into the pump or IC.
Those blower rotors are totally different design then the M90 big part being the m90 has 60* spiral rotors. I am again not trying to be a jerk, i hope it works well for you... I just remember reading a thread where some kid opened the arrow head up ALLOT (not as much as yours) and he got zero boost afterwards.
As for the water tank... i called it an ice box. It has a large filter at the bottom so it picks up no ice chunks but yes, dump in a bag of ice... Its the quickest way to supercool the coolant water.
There are a few blowers that run the spiral rotors with open bottoms too. Well if my mod doesn't work its all good cause i got a couple of m90's lying around. I always heard of people running cool cans and not ice boxes. As long as it's filtered it should work fine.
What is your heat exchanger from?
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ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK
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08:46 AM
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
Jeff Smith had a radiator guy build them from scratch. I wish it was from something though because it would be easier to replace then! Ill do some research and see if i can find the materials he used to make them...
FieroGTGuy
Luckily in that first picture you can tell it JUST clears the engine vent... There is like a half inch to an inch of clearance. Cool think is its close enough that when you look through the vent you KNOW something is going on down there! As for getting more BTTK intercoolers, I messaged him on AOL ill see what he says when he gets back to me.
worst thing i can think of is it just dosent perform well i dont think it will hurt anything. just maby a wate of time and gasket. if it dont work sell it on club gp to a turbo guy
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08:21 PM
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
Alright gotta get the bolts now so i can lock it into place and get some more work done. Work has been crazy... Working on a robotic cell for Chrysler's racing division that will weld modular roll cages!! Gotta get it done!
Holiday weekend this weekend, and my sons FIRST birthday party next weekend!!!
Gonna post info on bolts as soon as i get it!
------------------ "Raced That, Wrecked Better"~In Memory Of Jesse Cesek~ 1980-2000 US Armored Cavalry - Fox 2/81 - Death By 120 - 1 Shot 1 Kill 3800 SuperCharged Series II Swap, Rare BTTK Intercooler, Thrasher MPS, Fastback Swap
