I've been getting around to getting this thread started so that I don't clutter the "...all things 3.4 DOHC" topic. I am currently waiting for my motor to get here from PA, and then its go time! I dropped the cradle with Mike Miller, a friend and the family mechanic. Mike is going to be helping me install the motor and work out any kinks I come across until I am familiar enough to work on this engine. I just returned from cleaning the cradle and trans and figured I'd go ahead and start this thread. Pictures will begin flowing in soon (when I get some more batteries for the camera).

Until then here's what I'm working with.
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My 1988 Formula
1995 Monte Carlo LQ1 and computer/harnesses
Getrag M282


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For anyone curious about this motor, or considering the swap, it is essential you read through this thread: 3.4 DOHC Page

[This message has been edited by Emc209i (edited 06-06-2008).]

It's been a while since a scene like this! =)


before cleaning it up, I'll get some more recent photo's later.


I FINALLY GOT ONE OF THESE!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Anyway, more to come.

Done yet?

Waiting on the motor, or I'd be trying to finish tonight Should be getting here on Saterday at the latest. Don't ever ship anything with US Holland, they are not a good shipping company at all. We spent a week before we got the Freight company to hire UPS to carry the motor here rather than holland.

Just ordered two new shifter cables from California Push and Pull. Those will be nice to have. I was having trouble using the select cable. My dad had to use two hands to get it in reverse. No more building shoulder muscles while driving. Like Sylvester Stallone in "over the top", pulling on that cord in the truck.

If you don't mind, may I ask how you're working on it? You said you and your mechanic? Is it you and some shop or you and a friend/close contact? I'm thinking something along the lines of a 3.4L DOHC + 5-speed or 3.4L DOHC Turbo +5-speed in my '86, but no one does a turn-key. I ain't got a place to do the swap, but I wouldn't mind helping at a shop or something.

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My Mechanic is a personal and family friend. Right now we're trying to split the work 50/50. We make a good team seeing as how we pulled the thing apart in 3 hours. I wouldn't just pay someone else to do it, not even Mike, I'd be sure to help out. I'm still sore from the work we did the other day. Sorry but I kind of take offense to it, yes I'm working right along side of him. In my eyes it isn't something I can truly appreciate unless I put blood and sweat into it.

I see where you're coming from. I personally don't like turnkeys. Why? Because its someone else's work, and more specifically, someone else's wiring. Once we finish getting everything mechanically finished I'm going to call Matt and have the entire car flat bedded back to the house where I can work on it in the garage and rouge the wiring.

If you can find someone to help you get the motor bolted in and all the lines hooked up you'd be in good shape, lots of shops don't mind installing motors. Its the wiring, which after starting in on my harness isn't at all that bad. Try to find maybe an enthusiast (f-body or the like) who would be willing to help you with the grunt work of the project. Maybe a contact through the GA Fiero club? It's always good to have friends who will lend you a hand, especially older wiser ones.

Also if you're talking about having trouble with immediate help in your area I would cross a turbo off your list. Get a running 3.4 going way before you even think of turboing. A turbo is not plug and play, it takes a TON of tunning and dyno time to build a custom setup. If you don't get the setup right something ALWAYS breaks, whether its the Turbo from surging or a motor component.

Stay away from turbo's right now. Trust me.
It's going to cost anywhere from $1500 - $3000 to do a decent 3.4 DOHC setup, that is if you're starting with zero parts at hand. If you can find a motor with everything on it from the MAF and airbox to the timming belt and harness/PCM, you've won most of the battle. There are always little hidden costs like the shifter cables for me or a sensor here and there.

I'll be sure to update as soon as I get something done. Waiting takes alot of patience..... grrr

HI all,

What are you doinging sleeping!! Get off your ar$e and back to work!!

Tinton, are you looking for a shop that does turn-keys in your area? As I am not from your area, you shouldn't get your hopes up, cuz there are a couple of places on here that do 3.4 dohc turnkey.....

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Me, I sell engines, the cars are for free, I need something to crate the engines in....
Enzo Ferrari....

quote Originally posted by pavo_roddy: HI all, What are you doinging sleeping!! Get off your ar$e and back to work!!

Uhh huh..... lol

I'll get some more pictures up soon. Yesterday I took the entire harness apart and cleaned it really well, then taped it back up and put the clean corrugated pipe back on. I mixed engine degreaser with VERY hot water..... it was scary, I used it to clean the corrugated pipe. I stirred it with a stick because it was making this strange hissing sound. Worked great though! I have pictures but I still need to pick up some batteries. I left my charger in Charlotte.

The motor traveled almost 500 miles overnight!!! ALWAYS go UPS freight shipping lol ... After waiting almost a week with US Holland (they never even picked it up) UPS does it in one night. Amazing. I assume I'll be in Greensboro tonight with a truck picking it up, so the build will be back up and running when we get the clutch. We're thinking about replacing the main bearings and the intermediate shaft bearing while its out. At any rate I will be sure to get some batteries today and get the pictures coming back in.

Looks good. What are you going to use for mounts?

Stockers. I don't like the vibrations that come through the frame on the 86 with poly mounts.

The originals seem fine, the rubber doesn't flex and they're in good shape so we're just going to reuse them.

Wow I am goign to have to save this thread because I want to do this swap this winter in my 87 coupe I just picked up. Would you be interested in doing another wiring harness?

Started in today.

The project begin as an inspection process of the bottom end and intermediate shaft bearings. The results were very pleasing. The wear on the bottom end is minimal, .00015 Rod bearing seats, and almost no wear on the crank bearing. Who ever had the engine before must have been religious about oiling and mantanance, there was no buildup what-so-ever on the inside!





As soon as we got to the the timing belt pulley's, the tensioner, the timing chain, and the intermediate bearings things started going down hill. The belt was on its way out, which we were expecting so no big deal. The tensioner pulley bearings were almost non existent though, in fact the pulley had about a .5" play in all directions. Timing chain was decent, but we ordered another with the sprockets.



Then we got to the intermediate bearings... one feels like sandpaper (rear) and the other is worn. So we were going to pull the shaft out so that we could press new bearings when they arrived, and then we realized....... The distributor shaft gears were in the way.



So we both turned to one another.. sighed... and started in on the rear head. Assuming that the bolts aren't flex bolts (???? ) we just ordered another head gasket. It was a good move though, the O-ring aroung the distributor shaft was badly worn, and although it wasn't leaking yet, it was on its way. We also found a gasket that had been resealed rather than replaced. Blue silicon never seems to hold well, so we ordered the replacement gasket.







The cylinder hone still looks polished! So the engine is really in very good shape, save for several bearings and a few gaskets. I'm glad we started in on the upper end though, the motor will be sealed up tightly now.

Other things we came across. Green antifreeze has been used rather than Dex cool, which I'm very happy about. Motor really looks clean inside, we just need to clean the outside. Mike really wishes I'd have opted for the L67 now, a lot simpler design and cheaper power. But I'm still for the die hard exotic mechanics. The TDC puts down almost the same power as a series II L36, with a blower it would put down just as much if not more (better flowing) power and torque. Still waiting on the package from SPEC and the new engine parts.

[This message has been edited by Emc209i (edited 12-30-2006).]

Awesome Thread Man.

I don't post here often because I'm Fieroless but when I do, it means that you've peaked my interest.

You car is pretty much exactly what I've invisioned doing to a Fiero, paint, engine, tires, wheels, hopefully the next one I get I'll be able finally start my dream project. If you have any good pictures of your car please let me know, I would like to see a few!

Just a question, ever thought about taking the balance shafts out? Less Rotating mass= free hp, although I know these 60 degree V6's like to viberate quite a bit.
In planning for a turbo project, it may be something I would do to it... if it doesn't work out, they can always go back in!

Yeah sure. Thanks for the praise btw.

I still haven't gotten "that" picture yet after the paint new seats and other mods. But here are some of the more recent pictures I think do the car some justice. *I still need to get sail panels really bad* But all of that fun stuff after I finish with the motor and get some more cash flowing in.

Actually here's lots of photo's.





















Sorry for another interior shot, but this is one of my favorites!


What we were up too last Dec.


After we finished the paint. I was so proud of it! Still am!


If you want any particular shots let me know.. I'm sure I have them.

Edit: Fixed a picture

[This message has been edited by Emc209i (edited 12-30-2006).]

hey you may want to double check before reusing those head bolts because nearly everything GM uses in Engines now especially head and mainbolts are Torque To Yield or flex bolts as i think you stated. They are a bolt you torque to a specific value then turn the wrech x number of degrees further and that usually stretches the bolt in first use and it is like a one time use type deal. Goin through all the time effort and money it would suck to get it back together to find out one of the bolts wasnt at the correct value and loosened back up.

Appreciate that. Yes they are flex bolts, 90* turn over torque spec. I know where to get some more at. It wouldn't be good at all for the bolts to fail. This is one reason we were so cautious and hesitant to take the heads off. But you have to bite the bullet and do what you have to do.

[This message has been edited by Emc209i (edited 01-20-2007).]

Balance shaft? No, this engine does not come with a balance shaft. 60 degree V6's are naturally a well balanced engine. 90 degree engines utilize balance shafts because they are unable to mimic the balance of a 60 degree, though they mimic the even firing order of the 60 degree by splitting the throws by 30 degrees. 60 degree V6's do vibrate a little, but having the rotating assembly professionally balanced knocks it down to a minimum, factory tolerances are pretty loose in this aspect.

The central (intermediate) shaft inside the 3.4 DOHC has only one reason for going all the way through the block, to drive the oil pump. If you didn't need to do that, the shaft would only need to hold the chain and the timing belt drive sprocket. Also, the intermediate shaft inside the 3.4 DOHC spins at half crank speed. Balance shafts in a 90 degree v6 spins at crank speed, and get this: 4 cylender's have TWO balance shafts that both spin at TWICE crank speed. I suggest removing them!

What I was thinking about were the counter weights on the flywheel pre 88 and the balancing weight on the inside of the motor on the 88's, keeps the crank evenly spinning.

quote Originally posted by Leafy: Just a question, ever thought about taking the balance shafts out? Less Rotating mass= free hp, although I know these 60 degree V6's like to viberate quite a bit. In planning for a turbo project, it may be something I would do to it... if it doesn't work out, they can always go back in!

You're very confused. 60 degree v6's are very smooth engines and they do not have balance shafts. The 3800 on the other hand runs pretty rough (it's a 90 degree V6 by the way) and does have a balance shaft.

quote Originally posted by Steven Snyder: You're very confused. 60 degree v6's are very smooth engines and they do not have balance shafts. The 3800 on the other hand runs pretty rough (it's a 90 degree V6 by the way) and does have a balance shaft.

Well see that's one reason I went with the LQ1, because of its acclaimed SMOOTHNESS. 60 Degree V6's aren't really that bad at all. Take the 3100 and 3400 in example they're not rough really at all. Any motor can run rough if its not taken care of or is cammed etc. I remember the 2.8 used to shake the car when I'd crank it, but then again it was a pretty mean setup. The Twin Cams on this motor are going to make a world of difference. I didn't want to say anything because I haven't gotten to drive it yet, but I've seen many and worked on a Monte Carlo Z34 and they don't run rough really, they're quite smooth... Anyway I'm going to leave this alone for now. I have high hopes!

And thank you Steven and Obsessed for chiming in your knowledge on the topic is always welcome!

Well another fun night of working on the 3.4. The entire motor is clean and the block has a new fresh paint coat. The aluminum cleaned up really well, and the oil pan and front aluminum cover go to the "cleaning tub" tomorrow.

Since the inside is so incredibly clean we have decided to go ahead and overhaul everything else.
My new list of ordered parts:

Timing belt
Timing belt idlers
Dist. O-ring
Cam carrier gasket
Breather cover gasket
Drive belt
Water Pump
Intermediate shaft Bearings
Timing chain and sprockets
Timing cover gasket set
Head bolts
Rear main seal
Timing belt tensioner and pulley
Accessory Drive belt tens. pulley

The absolute worse part about this build is waiting on parts. Time is money..

So TTT and out of archives, until I can get the motor back together.

quote Originally posted by Steven Snyder: You're very confused. 60 degree v6's are very smooth engines and they do not have balance shafts. The 3800 on the other hand runs pretty rough (it's a 90 degree V6 by the way) and does have a balance shaft.

Thanks, I stand Corrected! What I was reading about was actually the 3800, and I somehow got the two mixed up... too many good engine choices, too many different configurations!

Anyhow, if the engine DID have balance shafts, I would ponder pulling them out. haha! I still plan on a 3.4, eventually.

Back to your regularly scheduled program.

quote Originally posted by Leafy: Thanks, I stand Corrected! What I was reading about was actually the 3800, and I somehow got the two mixed up... too many good engine choices, too many different configurations! Anyhow, if the engine DID have balance shafts, I would ponder pulling them out. haha! I still plan on a 3.4, eventually. Back to your regularly scheduled program.

No big deal at all. Always ask questions, never stop wondering. You'll learn something every day!

So, you are going with the OBD 1.5, and using a manual 5 speed Getrag transmission. Basically the same thing I am doing. I'm doing a custom chip specific to my car. There are a several issues to look at with the code for a Fiero specific application. The chip that comes with the ECM DOES have a manual transmission mode built into it which would need to be activated. I noticed you have the BKLL burn, which has VATS enabled. I am more then willing to help with any computer needs you will probably come across when you have the engine in. Especially since you need the exact same things I do.

I'll be sure to keep in touch then.

Updated status: Intermediate bearings will be pressed in tonight. Clutch should be here any minute.

Still waiting primarily on the Timing belt Idler pulleys, and if the Charlotte terminal doesn't have two they will re route the order to Atlanta GA., which will be another 3-4 days wait!

I need to get some more pictures of the motor so I can show off the 3 hours of degreasing and cleaning we did. I'll get some photos of the clutch when it gets in.

Update....

hmmmmmmmm.....

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[This message has been edited by Emc209i (edited 01-05-2007).]

Saturday was crazy. We worked for 12 hours taking a short lunch break. We spent almost 2 hours trying to figure out timing. First of all there was contact inside of the motor when we manually turned it over. Secondly who the hell designed the cams to have one side flats facing downward while the other pair faces up?!! Needless to say we finally had a 10* exhaust retard perfected, and turned it over..... more hanging and clashing. So we decided to run a compression check.
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Cylinders 2 and 5 had almost no compression! Air came out of the intake and exhaust manifolds in torrents. So we disassembled the heads and found some very unhappy valves. So 12 hours of work canceled because of valves.

Several other things we found inside included a tig weld on the oil pump collector (someone's been in there before, most likely why the bearings are almost new).

So the heads are in the machine shop today and Mike has to put the motor back together himself this week, being I'm now back in Charlotte for school. Hopefully everything will be buttoned up by the time I get home on the weekend. I'll try to wire it then.

HI all,

Sorry to hear this Paul!! I thought she was your daily?

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Me, I sell engines, the cars are for free, I need something to crate the engines in....
Enzo Ferrari....

Yes she was.. Charlotte has a great bus system haha. I had to take the bus uptown for econ classes today. I got to get it back together soon.

Pow back to the top for some more pictures I forgot to post. Heads are almost done. I'm hoping to complete the swap this weekend. Hoping...

Tech. problems. Will try again in the morning.

[This message has been edited by Emc209i (edited 01-10-2007).]

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Absolutely stellar.........Can you tell me this? How much harder is an LQ1 to break down and rebuild compared to a standard cam-in block motor, like say an L67.......I'm considering starting my project with the engine before I get the car, but, I want to break It all down so I can teach my kids about engines (Just like my step dad did to me with my first 350) After reading for years I think the LQ1 is the way to go for me, but, It looks freakin' intimidating to rebuild.........keep up the good work!


-T