When I bought my Indy, I thought it was a completely bone-stock car. It came as a surprise when I first learned that there was custom pinstriping on the exterior mirror housings and on the spoiler.

I've been torn about what to do about this. As you'll see in the pictures below, the pinstriping was applied by hand by someone who holds a paintbrush a LOT more steadily than I can. (There's too much caffeine in my diet!) To my eye, it's done VERY well.

Still, "non-stock" ANYTHING on a 4,3xx mile Indy Fiero bugs me. So, I've finally decided to paint over the pinstriping. I'm prone to *severe* nit-pickery regarding my Fieros, so it even bothers me that the mirrors and spoiler won't have original white paint, but oh well...

I need some advice on doing this:
- How should I go about finding a top-notch paint shop here in Vegas?
- Should I trust them to apply the correct paint themselves, or should I find it elsewhere (Fiero Store or someplace else?) and take it to them?
- Any other issues I should concern myself with?

Here are the pix:

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Man I am not sure on that one. On one hand you have the original paint sitting under the pin stripes, and removing the striping would take away the paint, devaluing the car IMHO. On the other hand the pin stripes are not OEM making the car worth less. That would be a tough call. I have not tried it, but perhaps someone with a steady hand could lightly sand the pin stripes off leaving the original paint, and just re-apply the clear coat. It would take time and most likely cost $$. But if original is what you want, that is the route I would take.

Brad

That is a tough one for the extreme nit-picker...

I think the only solution you will be happy with is to completely repaint the mirrors and spoiler off the car. Most any body shop will do a small job like that for you. For authenticity you could take it to a Pontiac Dealer's Body shop and they will use as close as possible to OEM materials.

Or you could trade those mirrors and spoiler to another Indy owner...I'd give you mine, but they look so crappy they need painting...and you would have the same dilemma.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: I think the only solution you will be happy with is to completely repaint the mirrors and spoiler off the car.

That's what I've decided to do. What I'm wondering about is whether I should get the paint myself and supply it to the body shop (once I've found one that I trust,) or if I should just let them handle it beginning to end (once I've removed the mirrors and spoiler myself, of course...)

What do you guys think?

A Pontiac dealership will basically farm out the work to some body shop they usually use, and then charge me extra to do so -- won't they? I'd rather find a reputable place myself and go to them directly. Thoughts?

quote Originally posted by davikan: A Pontiac dealership will basically farm out the work to some body shop they usually use, and then charge me extra to do so -- won't they? I'd rather find a reputable place myself and go to them directly. Thoughts?

It depends... a lot of the dealerships here have in-house body shops. And even if they farm it out, the painters they use do very good work because a dealership has a reputation to uphold. They basically have done the research for you.

It shouldn't cost an arm and a leg to get a spoiler and mirrors painted. I had a spoiler repainted by bringing it to the body shop, they painted it for about $175 if I recall correctly, and I put it back on. That was about 5 years ago though so I'm sure it's more now.

The pinstriping isn't on top of the clear?

quote Originally posted by KurtAKX: The pinstriping isn't on top of the clear?

I would assume so, but how can I be sure? I'm the second owner of the car, so I don't know the particulars of how it was applied. If I run my fingers over the pinstriping, it feels as if it's raised above the clearcoat - but I'm no paint expert.

[This message has been edited by davikan (edited 04-19-2008).]

If its on top of the clear, which is usually the case, you can wet sand it right off with a rubber block and #1500, buff it back up. If its been cleared over, you can still do that and maybe get it off before you go thru the orig white. Then you can just wet sand the rest lightly and reclear that panel / part. and still you will have orig paint. Just be aware, theres always a possiblity that they will show up under the right light, even if you strip the panel down bare and reshoot them. Not the color mind you, but you may see the outline of them. I painted semi cabs for a while and we always stripped them to bare aluminum. They always had names or graphics. After a while that would still be visible in the right light....remember this was down to bare metal.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: I painted semi cabs for a while and we always stripped them to bare aluminum. They always had names or graphics. After a while that would still be visible in the right light....remember this was down to bare metal.

Damn. Do you think this would be the case with pinstriping applied by hand with a pinstriping brush?

Taking any sort of sandpaper to my baby scares me, but I am pretty handy, and armed with the right information going in, I might end up with good results. However, I'm wondering if it's more worth it to just let the professionals do it.

Again, this question: Where can I get the appropriate paint/clearcoat? I've heard that Fiero paint needs some sort of flex additive (due to the plastic body panels) that affects the final color of the paint. Is this something I need to get as well?

Flex additives are becoming outdated.

You shouldn't need flex additives on your mirrors and such anyway; if you're "flexing" those, you're bending them and damaging them.

You don't need any flex additives for urethane paints. They are flexible enough.

Give Roger's suggestion a try. Use a flat sanding block and work with #1500 grit paper and carefully wet sand the stripes off. If it doesn't work, you are still looking at painting anyway and it's worth a shot to keep it all original. One other option is to find anotehr Indy for parts and get some original pieces in good shape. Tough, but possible. When sanding, just be very careful and keep the block flat to the surface so you aren't putting pressure on the clear....just the pinstripe paint.

Mark

quote Originally posted by Firefox: You don't need any flex additives for urethane paints. They are flexible enough.

Fair enough if I were repainting the whole car, but I'd like to stay true to what was used in 1984.

Does anyone have paint codes/manufacturer for base color/clear coats/flex additives (if I still need flex additives) ??????

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Are you entirely sure the whole car hasn't been repainted already? It seems unlikely to me that someone would paint the mirrors white just to be able to pinstripe them, without repainting any of the rest of the car... And if this is the case, you already have non factory paint so it voids the need for factory paint at all.
And as far the wing goes, I think it might be easier to find a really nice white wing and trade your striped one for it, as I don't believe the wings varied at all year to year, nor do I believe they have any date or vin info on them to affect the value later on.

Though I think the mirrors look cool and if I had a white car I would offer to buy them

If you have to repaint the parts, a good reputable shop will be able to match not only the original paint, but match it to the EXISTING color by use of a special camera that actually takes a photo image of the paint (some type of chromography technique), then the paint blender matches it. I had this done on my front fascia this winter do to some scratches. My painter, and close friend Dave Albright, works at a local auto body supply house and paint store, he came over and did the "photo thing" to match the original white. It came out perfect.
I have color sanded pin striping off before, but as mentioned earlier, it may "ghost" back after your done. My experience, strip it down and repaint.

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84' Indy Pace Car (car #2000)
86' G.T.
Member: NIFE

quote Originally posted by pumpkincarriage: It seems unlikely to me that someone would paint the mirrors white just to be able to pinstripe them, without repainting any of the rest of the car...

The Indy was the only Fiero that came from the factory with white mirrors, so they most likely were not painted over before the pin stripe was added.

You can just use lacquer thinner on a cloth and work the stripes off. I do it at work all the time. I could take those off in 15 min and it would look like new. Dont sand or paint until you try to remove them with lacquer thinner. If you have any questions about how to do it, PM me I will give you my phone number and I will explain it to you.

I'm not sure on that one either. That pinstriping looks gorgeous. (And I'm generally ambivalent towards pinstriping on modern cars.)

A possible solution to the dilemma: Could you just get some extra parts, and keep those things stock with the pinstriping? This way you'd have the best of both worlds. The paint looks to be in great shape, who knows if the aftermarket paint will match as well, might be worth considering when making your decision.

quote Originally posted by DeLorean00: You can just use lacquer thinner on a cloth and work the stripes off. I do it at work all the time. I could take those off in 15 min and it would look like new. Dont sand or paint until you try to remove them with lacquer thinner. If you have any questions about how to do it, PM me I will give you my phone number and I will explain it to you.

The lacquer thinner wouldn't eat into the clear coat? OK, I'm interested: PM sent.

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If the pinstripes have been on there very long, there is a chance that even after you remove them, the paint under them will not have oxidized or faded at the same rate as the surrounding area, since the pinstripping protected that paint from the sun. You may still be able to see a faint outline where the pinstripes used to be.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: The Indy was the only Fiero that came from the factory with white mirrors, so they most likely were not painted over before the pin stripe was added.

I wondered if that might be the case and looked at a few Indy pictures before I posted that, all of which had black mirrors... guess those were the incorrect ones (hear that CenTex? ). Ah well, I still think the pinstripe on the mirrors looks good.

quote Originally posted by pumpkincarriage: I wondered if that might be the case and looked at a few Indy pictures before I posted that, all of which had black mirrors... guess those were the incorrect ones (hear that CenTex? ). Ah well, I still think the pinstripe on the mirrors looks good.

Yeah, the pinstriping is tastefully done, that's why I'm so torn by this decision. But, my addiction to stock Fieros seems to be winning out.

Regarding stock Fieros and the white/black mirror housing issue, here's a pic that should settle things...

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quote Originally posted by pumpkincarriage: I wondered if that might be the case and looked at a few Indy pictures before I posted that, all of which had black mirrors... guess those were the incorrect ones (hear that CenTex? ).

Yeah, I've got a black mirror on the driver's side of my Indy as the interior glass mounts were all broken when I got the car.

Okay, no real great advise that I've seen...

First off, it's likely pinstriping tape, set out as a decal set. They are peel and stick, and can be floated to location on water just as the original decals were laid. They are all laid on top of the clear, and it's unlikely there is clear on top of them - especially since you can feel the edge.

3M makes a pinstripe removal tool that goes on a drill bit chuck. Works great, just use with caution. I used it on my Indy to remove the original decals w/o disturbing the paint underneath, though I was going to sand the underlying paint anyway. My car had 5k miles, and they came off with no problem. As yours are not factory applied, they will be even easier, as a float method is usually used. If you have several hours, you can probably lift it by hand, using your fingernail edge to lightly lift the edges. You may get lucky and get a long piece of it off at once. Because your car has such low mileage, it's likely that it's been stored indoors. If that's the case, I wouldn't worry about seeing it once it's removed, especially in white. It's the Sun that burns the pattern in the paint, probably ultraviolet waves of light.

Worst case is that you screw up my way, you have to do a repaint...but it'll work - trust me.

If on the other hand, they are painted on, you can use a product "Goof-off" to slowly disolve the top layer of paint. Use sparingly and the red will disappear before touching your clear. Wash immediately, and wax the surface to eliminate any sovlents remaining.

[This message has been edited by pacethis (edited 04-20-2008).]

quote Originally posted by pumpkincarriage: I wondered if that might be the case and looked at a few Indy pictures before I posted that, all of which had black mirrors... guess those were the incorrect ones (hear that CenTex? ). Ah well, I still think the pinstripe on the mirrors looks good.

Mine are white - but because I drive it so much I have them covered with the leather sleeves. The covers will be off at the AER show.

quote Originally posted by CenTexIndy: .. but because I drive it so much...

They looked painted on to me and looks as if they were cleared over to blend in better. The one shot looks evenaly shiny on the red and white as if it was wet sanded & clear coated to remove any heavy ridges. It may turn into a mess and white can be a bear to match.
Personally I would leave them as they are not to overwhelming and add a little to the car. Rick

As a fellow stickler of stockness when dealing with Fieros, I feel your pain here. On one hand, messing around with stock paint on a low mile car when you don't have to is almost always a bad idea. BUT, that being said, those pinstripes are horrid, and I don't think I could sleep at night with them on my 4000 mile Indy.

Good luck

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88 GT 5-Speed...5K orig
88 GT 5-Speed...16K orig
88 GT Auto...42K orig
88 Formula 5-Speed...87K, silver.
87 GT 5-Speed, Blue...18K orig
87 GT 5-Speed...55K orig

quote Originally posted by RRobinson: As a fellow stickler of stockness when dealing with Fieros, I feel your pain here. On one hand, messing around with stock paint on a low mile car when you don't have to is almost always a bad idea. BUT, that being said, those pinstripes are horrid, and I don't think I could sleep at night with them on my 4000 mile Indy. Good luck

Is yours on the list http://www.fieropacecar.com...=viewtopic&t=191#750 as I didnt see a 4000 mile Indy in Canada. I do have a few without mileage and always looking for updates. Thanks,,Rick

ummmm.....I am pretty sure he was talking about davikan's Indy, and not one that he owns.

DOH,, I was hoping I missed one. The Evilin Woods Speed reading class got me again hahahahaha. Rick

I think the white is GM WA8554, and clearcoat is just the same brand as whatever base color you use. You dont need any flex agent any more than the engine can use 'pills' that resurface the cylinder walls

The laquer thinner trick can be done, Ive done it, BUT not if they have been cleared over...you will only soften up the clear and make a mess.

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quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: I think the white is GM WA8554, and clearcoat is just the same brand as whatever base color you use. You dont need any flex agent any more than the engine can use 'pills' that resurface the cylinder walls The laquer thinner trick can be done, Ive done it, BUT not if they have been cleared over...you will only soften up the clear and make a mess.

THANKS for the specific paint code. That's what I've been wondering about. Although hopefully, I won't need it.
A couple more questions:

- I've heard differing opinions: Do I use Laquer Thinner, Paint Thinner, Mineral Spirits, or Goof Off?
- What is the definitive way to find out if there's clear coat over this pinstriping? Right now, I figure the only way is to soak a Q-Tip with some thinner, and try a tiny area to see what happens. Yes? No?

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Do you have a local paint shop that you can go to and have them answer some of your questions?
The 2 that I have used in the past (on other vehicles) have always been very helpful about answering any questions that I had like yours. It is also a good way to get a "feel" for the place and how they react to the Indy (will they treat it for what it is, or is it just another car to them?)

I have to wonder, if they're painted on, it's most likely enamel, and it seems to me it should be possible to just removed them with lacquer thinner, which wouldn't effect the original paint at all.

Thanks for the suggestions, everybody.

I've now tried three different products: two have worked a teeny-tiny little bit: it would take WEEKS of patient work to get all the pinstriping off using either one.

The third product by far the fastest acting, and doesn't seem to be doing anything bad to the clear coat. It's still going to take a LOT of patient rubbing, (especially on the spoiler - yikes!) but the pinstriping is slowly coming off one of the mirror housings:


Anyone care to hazard a guess as to which product is the winner?

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I've got my money on Goo gone... I've used it regularly to remove a lot of stuff.

Anyone else want to guess?
Goo Gone, Meguiar's, or Paint Thinner?

And, on an unrelated note (but it's MY thread, so I'll hijack it if I want to!)
Check this out:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...dZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Here's my question:
Why do some guys advertise Indy decal sets for somewhere in the $200 - $250 price range, and then there's the occasional seller offering them for the $40 - $50 range? Would I be getting an inferior product if I were to buy these for my Indy?

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The way it looks like its coming off makes me think it was paint not sticker stripes. Look at how it fades out instead of peels apart or cracks. My bet is the best results came from the Meguiars clean wax. Fair warning though, it does dig down into clear coats also, matter of fact thats part of its job, to remove particles from the clear coat. Extended use will end up removing the clear coat. I also would have tried true mineral spirits instead of generic paint thinner. Generic versions try to apply to multiple lines of paints. Mineral spirits tend to go after glues and certain oil types. Good luck!

quote Originally posted by davikan: Why do some guys advertise Indy decal sets for somewhere in the $200 - $250 price range, and then there's the occasional seller offering them for the $40 - $50 range? Would I be getting an inferior product if I were to buy these for my Indy?

I don't know...maybe as technology improves people find cheaper easier ways to make the decals. Maybe some people are making them after hours on their company's machines? In any case it's worth a shot to try it out and see how they look. At that price it's worth a shot.

quote Originally posted by Miach: The way it looks like its coming off makes me think it was paint not sticker stripes. Look at how it fades out instead of peels apart or cracks.

It definately is paint - I spoke to a member of the family who used to own the car, who told me a bit of its history. The pinstripes were applied by hand, with a brush. You can tell just by looking at them closely.