OK, with WestFest coming up and my 1984 Fiero SE Coupe "Judge Red" needing some mods and repairs (and my side yard project on hold until the grader and concrete guys start later this week) I decided to kill 11 birds with one stone.

I have had an annoying oil leak since I first got the car. It is a rear main seal and as such it aint easy to get to. But I also need a new cluth as this one is slipping like an spastic dog on ice. Finally, I live in Freeway Country! The average speed on 101 between Morgan Hill and San Jose is 80 miles per hour for 20 miles...I'm not kidding. Even the cops won't look at you unless you are doing at least 85. With the old Duke winding out the 4-speed just to keep up with traffic my milage sucks. I've been longing for a 5-speed. As such, I found a nice low mile Getrag in the wrecking yard lately.

Soooooooo, I will pull the engine, replace the tranny, clutch, rear seal, all other gaskets, water pump, timing gears, and basically give the engine a good old fashion 80k mile overhaul (78k on the odometer, so close enough ).

Step one is to pull the deck lid and disconnect the critical systems: Clutch slave, shifter cables, ground wire to tranny, remove the TBI and throttle cables, dog bone, fuel lines, vacuum hoses, engine ground strap, battery, negative battery cable, coolant hose by the TBI, coolant hose to the top, coolant hose to the bottom, AC compressor, and the wiring harness from the ECM back.



Next I need to jack up the car and remove the rims, diconnect the brake lines, disconnect the parking brake cable, remove the 3 upper strut tower nuts, take off the pop rivets holding the side skirts, loosen the cradle bolts, and check for clearance.



Drop engine



I will get back to the engine bay last and do some clean-up and detailing there but first order of business is to disassemble the engine and tranny from the cradle. Loosen the RUSTED TO DEATH exhaust donut spring bolts (lots of WD-40 and back and forth motion saved the thread of the manifold), remove the front engine mount bolts (which I found to be loose), the 18mm bolts holding the tranny and engine together, the 10 mm screw holding the splash guard to the tranny and we are ready...



Lift engine away from tranny/cradle and set aside for work later. Now disconnect the tranny support bolts and pry the axles free. Lift this sucker out by hand and toss aside. One factory 84 4-speed is all it's "glory"...





Now with the tranny, engine, and cradle all separated I get to go to work cleaning the cradle and mounting the new 5-Speed Getrag...which I will do today. Stay tuned.

[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 07-04-2007).]

OK, so the Getrag I found came out of a 1987 GT but low and behold it is a 1986 Getrag and it has been rebuilt...probably explains the cleanliness of it. The 86 version had the screw in level indicator (which I actually prefer to later models with the rubber stopper that always starts leaking), new seals on each end and celan as a whistle. IT WAS however, missing one case bolt which I replaced. Notice the arrow shows where the cover has been removed.



Next I cleaned and prepped the cradle and the tranny and repainted the brackets.



And finally I put the tranny together. LOOKING GOOD!



Lastly today I disassembled the engine block down to the long block and cleaned al the parts. Now that the degressing of the engine parts is done, it's time to take a long hot shower and do the same for me.



Later this week I will sandblast some parts and repaint everything. I will be getting the gasket set and some other odds and ends I made of list of too, then on Saturday I will reseal the entire engine, put it back together and reconnect the engine to the tranny.

During the build-up I will go over some mods, enhancements and little tricks to get the most out of the Duke when you're on a budget.

The Isuzu transaxle has better gear ratios for the Duke; why not install one of those instead?

quote Originally posted by Whuffo: The Isuzu transaxle has better gear ratios for the Duke; why not install one of those instead?

Well your premise is wrong. Or at least only half right. You have to remember that these trannys where designed in the days fo the 55 mph speed limit and with the exception of the Getrag, NO Fiero transmission is up to today's driving habits. In fact the 86-87 Getrag is better suited to the Duke in 1st and 2nd gear than the Isuzu. It does work harder in 3rd which means that when driving a Duke with a Getrag you should increase your shift point to about 2600 RPM or more. 2nd to 3rd IS a bit of a long jump, but very manageable for the kind of freeway driving I usually do with the Fiero. 4th works very well with the Duke and gives significantly lower RPM and better mileage. And the 5th gear ratio is almost identical to the Isuzu. So for low speed driving and high speed driving the Getrag wins, in the intermediate 30-40 mph range the Isuzu is marginally better.

Additionally,
1) I don't have a spare Isuzu
2) If I want to upgrade the engine later the tranny issue is solved already
3) The Getrag will give me better mileage in 4th and 5th gear than an Isuzu, my main goal
4) I am going to be adding a little hp to the engine (10-12 hp)
5) And lastly, I have plenty of Getrag spare parts

[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 06-11-2007).]

I love well documented, picture filled threads like this. Nice work Toddster.
Keep us posted!
Todd

Well?

Now This is a thread of interest to me!

I LOVE my duke engine, and am considering a swap of the Trany to!
(mine Is the five speed Isuzu trany)
How ever I did it the other way round, I have "upgraded" my little Duke to
I ported the heads,other rollercam and cleaned it out (lots of sludge)
It is now making somewhere between 100 and 105 pk, and there are some horses to be won in the future to,
I heard that 120 hp will be reliable in a Duke, That will be just great!
I don't want a race engine, since this is a car for everyday use.

I will keep this thread in my favorites

OK OK, hold your horses folks. I have a job, a wife, 2 toddlers, and my daily driver got totalled recently. I don't even have time to pee anymore. I'm planning on just holding it until I have time to invest in a colostomy bag, so chill until tomorrow.

OK, Today I started with the interior since I am not covered in grease yet

In swapping out a 4-Speed tranny for a 5-Speed you have to swap more than just the transmission. Fortunately the axles are identical and need no modification. But the shifter and cables are completely different and must be swapped out. First we have to remove the center console, shifter escutcheon, stereo, AC controls, center pod trim, and finally the plastic sub frame.

This gives us access to the shifter, cables, and about $4 in lost change



The first order of business is to disconnect the reverse switch from the shifter, unbolt the shifter plate by removing the four 13 mm nuts, pull the cables into the car and remove the whole magilla.

This is a great time to clean the center tunnel of spare change, dirt, and most important of all, those broken plastic bits that you will want to reglue onto your sub frame!

Notice the difference between the 4-speed shifter (top) and the 5-speed shifter (bottom). The reverse switch on the 4-speed is circled. On a 5-speed the reverse switch is located on the tranny itself so we will want to splice into the reverse switch line and run 2 wires to the engine compartment to connect to the reverse switch on the top of the 5-speed. One other thing of note is that the 5-speed shifter lever is taller. This was done by GM to accomodate grumbly women drivers who found the shifting to be hard work. sigh, we'll deal with that later.



I used line splices for the reverse switch wires (2) so I can return the car to stock at a later date if I or a new owner ever decide to do so. The original plug is still intact (1).



The one last thing necessary for the conversion is the 5-speed clutch slave which is designed to mount to the Getrag and gives a smaller throw-out than the stock 4-speed slave. The new slave is on top.

Another important thing to remember is that you will need to swap your old VSS if you intend to run your original wheels and tires. I have upgraded to GT wheels and Tries and so I will keep the stock Getrag VSS.



While I re-glued the broken platic pieces onto the subframe and need to wait 24 hours for that to dry before I can put the interior back together I decided to get back to the engine and prep some parts for sand blasting and painting...

BIG TIP: Don't put the little corner of the water pump housing assembly in a vise expecting it to hold the whole thing in place while you loosen the water pump bolts.



Fortunately, my spare parts bin has EVERYTHING!



The last brackets are cleaned and painted and set aside for the engine once I finish with it. Which I will do tomorrow. Stay tuned for the next thrilling episode of "As The Crankshaft Turns".

[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 06-18-2007).]

I love the write up, thanks for taking the time to document what you're doing with pics.

About the only thing I can add to this at all is that when you paint your parts, think about spraying them with high temp clear coat. I was having a problem with painting my parts and noticed that they scratched or nicked easily- regardless of how much I had primed and painted them (with good paint). Then I started to finish them off with a couple coats of clear coat and not only did they seem more durable, but they had a richer finish to them. It also seems to me that they might resist rust a little better. From now on, I won't paint any part without hitting it with some clear coat afterward. It takes a little longer, but I think it looks much better when it's done. Just a thought.

Are you putting anything on the bolt threads before you put them back in place?

quote Originally posted by F-I-E-R-O: I love the write up, thanks for taking the time to document what you're doing with pics. About the only thing I can add to this at all is that when you paint your parts, think about spraying them with high temp clear coat. I was having a problem with painting my parts and noticed that they scratched or nicked easily- regardless of how much I had primed and painted them (with good paint). Then I started to finish them off with a couple coats of clear coat and not only did they seem more durable, but they had a richer finish to them. It also seems to me that they might resist rust a little better. From now on, I won't paint any part without hitting it with some clear coat afterward. It takes a little longer, but I think it looks much better when it's done. Just a thought. Are you putting anything on the bolt threads before you put them back in place?

Thanks for the tip. I actually have some engine clear and might as well throw it on there since the brackets are all just sitting around waiting for the engine detailing to finish.

As for the bolts, I am planning on chasing all threads with taps and running the bolts threw a tumbler when I get to that stage. Then I have a little anti seize I can use for the steel to aluminum bolts. I don't really need anything on most of the rest. I will use thread locker on the flywheel bolts, but that's it.

just for future reference, early 87 model cars had a screw in dipstick for the getrag, ive purchased 2 of them with the screw in style dipstick, both were early 87's one from the original owner.

that being said all the 88's ive had/seen have had the flip type dipstick that always has alittle oil around it on the outside.

ive seen some late 87's with this style as well, they were produced after 6/87

matthew

Thanks Mosh!

OK, for today's installment I didn't get as much done as I would like since it was father's day and the kids were more excited about it than dear old dad was.

Anyway, after the morning festivities I managed to borrow FieroBear's sandblaster to clean a few odds and ends. When I got back I started on the exhaust porting. I am opening the entire exhaust system to add a good 7-9 or so horsepower. It starts with a free flow cat, swapping out the old one-in-one-out muffler for a 2.8 V-6 one-in-two-out, thermal wrap, and porting.

First the porting. the exhaust manifold is a cluster **** of design stupidity. The restictions are staggering; the first of which is loose flashing in one corner, the typical upper corner flashing, and the 1/4 inch ledge on the bottom from the folding process of manufacture. This is the mother of all restrictions. The lip of the outlet pipe needs cleaning too to remove mini air dams.

Before:


After:


The head...well it sucks. There is too much to mention that is wrong with it not the least of which is the asymmetrical design. But I don't have the time or potential upside to do much about it so it will remain as is.



Now with the sub frame glue dried I can drill out the holes (Gorilla Glue expands so be prepared to drill out your screw holes) and remount the frame in the car, replace the AC controls, stereo (all now mounted very solid!) and screw it all together. I'm just waiting to finish the engine before putting the rest together.



The engine is next. With all the brackets cleaned and painted and waiting to be reinstalled I have some gaskets and timing gears to replace. The rear seal was first so I could put the flywheel back on before mounting the block to the engine stand for the rest. The old seal was leaking like a sieve and it wasn't hard to see why. It was worn to the retainer ring.



More tomorrow

[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 06-17-2007).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Toddster:

The average speed on 101 between Morgan Hill and San Jose is 80 miles per hour for 20 miles...I'm not kidding. Even the cops won't look at you unless you are doing at least 85....


Hell, 85? I usually go about 100 between the Metcalf PG&E site on the way to your house and San Mateo....thank God for the highway expansion !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By the way...Happy Fathers Day since I am a father-to-be in July

[This message has been edited by drumwzrd (edited 06-17-2007).]

quote Originally posted by drumwzrd: Hell, 85? I usually go about 100 between the Metcalf PG&E site on the way to your house and San Mateo....thank God for the highway expansion !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! By the way...Happy Fathers Day since I am a father-to-be in July

Thanks. I hear what you're saying. This freeway expansion has made Morgan Hill the new chic place to be. And MAN can I make time on 101, or as we call it around these here parts The California Autobahn.

But then again, that is the reason for the 5 speed upgrade.

The tranny is mounted on the cleaned cradle and the axles have been polished. the exhaust has been cleaned and thermal wrapped. Even the heat riser (which will not be used) is clean now.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: The tranny is mounted on the cleaned cradle and the axles have been polished. the exhaust has been cleaned and thermal wrapped. Even the heat riser (which will not be used) is clean now.

Why not use the heated air intake? As long as the little flapper is working correctly, it costs you nothing and greatly improves performance during warm up.

The 2.8 has a MAT sensor so that it can compensate for differences in air charge temperature; the duke doesn't have this sensor and works around the need by warming the intake air during warm up.

If you get rid of the intake heat your duke will still run great when warmed up, but it'll be a bit balky for the first mile or two...

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Now with the sub frame glue dried I can drill out the holes (Gorilla Glue expands so be prepared to drill out your screw holes) and remount the frame in the car, replace the AC controls, stereo (all now mounted very solid!) and screw it all together. I'm just waiting to finish the engine before putting the rest together.

I use ABS glue, since that seems to be what that black plastic is made of. It melts the plastic back together, and sets up in minutes.

quote Originally posted by Whuffo: Why not use the heated air intake?

I'm thinking about the performance reduction AFTER the first mile. Hot air in the intake is not on the hit parade. Our California mornings are not below freezing so the actual impact of the heat riser is very slight on start-up. After the first couple of minutes of running the riser actually becomes a burden for performance since hot air is less dense. It is not as if the engine bay of a Fiero is a cold place to begin with so having a heat riser is kind of like having a rear window defogger...what's the point?

Anyway, I'm not disconnecting it permenantly. I am merely capping the riser tube port on the intake so that I can replace the riser tube any time I want. I am a big fan of undoable mods.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Hmmm, good tip. I'll have to try that on the next one.

Sometimes you might have to rough up the surface a bit, but normally it works the first time.

OK, things are moving right along. While I was taking a little break from the engine I took the old rims down to the wheel shop fro a little re-rounding, balancing, a roadrashectomy, polish, and powder coating..

BEFORE:


AFTER:


Back to the engine. I put the engine and the tranny together after installing the new clutch. The only difference of any significance is the need to use the Getrag Throw-out bearing instead of the original 4-Speed one. Then put it all on the cradle. Upgrades also include (1) New exhaust donut and bolts. (2) Thermal Wrap on the manifold and exhaust. (3) new water pump. (4) chuck the intake restrictor plate. (5) and thermal blanket on the starter to keep it from cooking.



Other upgrades include (1) new timing gear and (2) marriage of 2.5 exhaust to 2.8 2-in-1-out exhaust system from a GT.

We are now getting to the detail work so the engine will be back in the car by the end of the day saturday!



Some of the tossed junk pile:

Hit this with some high-temp clear coat, I think you'll be happy you did.

quote Originally posted by F-I-E-R-O: Hit this with some high-temp clear coat, I think you'll be happy you did.

That would be the can on the right.

I plan to do a little color sanding first and then shoot clear. then more sanding to take out the orange peel. But I have time. I want to get the engine in first, check all systems and then work on the subtle details.

No time for detailed pic today. My wife's car just gave up the ghost. Her tranny was acting up and yesterday it wouldn't shift into reverse. Soooo she will need to drive my car while I drive the Fiero come Monday.

That means a warp speed "put it back together" session. I won't get to finish everything I wanted to but at least I won't be pushing the limit on getting it running for Westwest.

I'm about 90% done.



Its back on the ground with some minor interior and engine detail work to be done which I need to finish today. I will post finished pics later.

Sooooo......How is the tranny mated up to the 4 banger? Notice a difference of rpm at freeway speed? Pics?

quote Originally posted by FormulaGT: Sooooo......How is the tranny mated up to the 4 banger? Notice a difference of rpm at freeway speed? Pics?

FANTASTIC!!!!!

I was cruising down to monterey and at 65 mph the engine was nearly lugging along at a meager 2350 rpm, at 80 it was STILL under 3000 rpm! I left Morgan Hill with a full tank of gas and by the time I got home I still had nearly 3/4 of a tank. The engine handled the gears just fine and the ride was a smooth as glass. Clean shifts, no clunkiness.

I cut down a 5 speed shifter from an 85 GT. It has the "L" in it like the original 4 speed shifter. I tossed the dog leg shifter. By removing 1 inch the shifting was smooth and short. The Getrag is quieter than the 4 speed too. It really was like driving a totally different car.

I give the Getrag swap a big

Oh, and I won 1st place in my class.


You've been judged!

[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 07-04-2007).]

As promised here are the finished pics.



Interior:



1st place at Westfest for Custom Notchie Coupe

[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 07-04-2007).]

The pics don't do it justice. That was by the far the cleanest and best looking Duke I have ever seen. Great job, Todd!

quote Originally posted by Steven Snyder: The pics don't do it justice. That was by the far the cleanest and best looking Duke I have ever seen. Great job, Todd!

Thanks Steve. Funny how all I can see are the imperfections in it that I want to get to before next year.

Good job yourself on that engine swap into my old 88 coupe. You have to let me try it out one day. I mean how different can it be?

By the way Todd, all else aside, I was very much in respect of the work that you put in on your car. The depth of detail, especiallly for an 84 Duke, was quite impressive. You would have been in my consideration for People's Choice, had I voted. It is an EXTREMELY nice car. Good work.

Todd, it looks like you have a poly dogbone in there. Does it transmit a lot of engine vibration?

quote Originally posted by Toddster:

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Todd, it looks like you have a poly dogbone in there. Does it transmit a lot of engine vibration?

Nope. The double isolation in the K-frame and engine mounts are still rubber and the ride is surprisingly smooth.

BTW, thanks.

What's up John, you're not going to archive my post for posterity? My fragile ego is wounded.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Todd, it looks like you have a poly dogbone in there. Does it transmit a lot of engine vibration?

One other thing. I did add a through bolt to the front tranny mount. This is usually best on a V engine and not as necessry on an inline engine but I figure what the hell, as long as I am there...



This in combo with the poly dog bone reduces engine twist to nothing.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: One other thing. I did add a through bolt to the front tranny mount. This is usually best on a V engine and not as necessry on an inline engine but I figure what the hell, as long as I am there...

That's a great idea. The V6's always tear that crappy upper plate arrangement from the rubber.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: That's a great idea. The V6's always tear that crappy upper plate arrangement from the rubber.

It is an amazingly simple and effective way to preserve ALL engine mounts, the exhaust donut, the Y-pipe, your axles and axle seals, and dog bone. When this mount tears it does not take long for the rest of the car to start falling apart from the stresses.

That is one beautiful car.
One day I'll have another bumper pad car.
The only thing I can think of that would make me like it any more would be if the bumper pads were still black.

------------------
--David

Black '86 GT-under construction
Silver '87 GT-daily driver

quote Originally posted by dcfox: The only thing I can think of that would make me like it any more would be if the bumper pads were still black.

RED, RED, I WANT RED.
THERE'S NO SUBSTITUTE FOR RED.
RED, RED, PAINT IT RED.
GREEN AIN'T ME COMPARED TO RED - Sammy Hagar