...we need them.

Some time ago we discussed adding new (main) sections to the forum. We all agreed we needed a "Build" section especially for build threads. We even had the sub sections nailed. I then said I wanted to wait until the new server was up and running because it would be easier to make the changes. Well, I don't know if anyone noticed, but the new server has been up and running for 3 weeks now - and it has done so perfectly I might add.

But now I can't find the thread anymore where we discussed this. So that's why I am starting a new thread.

First of all, I don't want PFF become yet another forum-with-a-thousand-sections, so I want to add no more than 2 or three new sections. This is what I had in mind:

Technical Discussion & Questions
Stuff like engine swaps, etc.

Fiero Maintenance
The simpler stuff like questions on how to change oil, troubleshoot a failing headlight system, best way to burp the cooling system, etc.

Builds and How To's
For build threads and How To's (duh).

General Fiero Chat
No changes, for stuff like where to buy parts, who that Fiero was you saw on the highway, etc.

The Mall
No Changes.

Event Information
Will replace the Club Announcement section since that's hardly used anyway.

Totally O/T
No changes.

Trash Can
No changes.

So, what do you think?

PS: This is not a general wish-list thread, so please keep it on the topic of sections and their subsections. Thanks!

I like the event information tab. Would it be possible to sub-category it into Regional US, Regional Canada and Overseas? I find that most people post all of their events in the General Fiero section, so perhaps everyone could make posts in the event information tab?

Just a suggestion.

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: ...we need them. Some time ago we discussed adding new (main) sections to the forum. We all agreed we needed a "Build" section especially for build threads. We even had the sub sections nailed. I then said I wanted to wait until the new server was up and running because it would be easier to make the changes. Well, I don't know if anyone noticed, but the new server has been up and running for 3 weeks now - and it has done so perfectly I might add. But now I can't find the thread anymore where we discussed this. So that's why I am starting a new thread. First of all, I don't want PFF become yet another forum-with-a-thousand-sections, so I want to add no more than 2 or three new sections. This is what I had in mind: Technical Discussion & Questions Stuff like engine swaps, etc. Fiero Maintenance The simpler stuff like questions on how to change oil, troubleshoot a failing headlight system, best way to burp the cooling system, etc................ So, what do you think? PS: This is not a general wish-list thread, so please keep it on the topic of sections and their subsections. Thanks!

Believe it or not, I actually like all the tech stuff between maintenance and swaps all rolled into one section.

[This message has been edited by KurtAKX (edited 10-15-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: Technical Discussion & Questions Stuff like engine swaps, etc. Fiero Maintenance The simpler stuff like questions on how to change oil, troubleshoot a failing headlight system, best way to burp the cooling system, etc. Builds and How To's For build threads and How To's (duh).

Let me see if I understand the difference between these... The first is like an "Extreme How To" Technical stuff. The second is "Routine" or "Common" fix-it things. And the third is "How I Built Mine So You Can Do It Too". Is that what you're saying there? The first & third are somewhat overlapping if you don't make it very clear, IMO.

Overall, I like what you have in that list. But then I'm not in the Tech sections all that much.

Right Examples??
Technical Discussion and Questions- What do I need to do to put a 4t60 in?
Fiero Maintenance- How much fluid does a 4t60 take?
Build and How To's- How I installed a 4t60 in a 87 GT.
General Fiero Chat- Whose fiero did I spot in Chicago with a 4t60?
The mall- 4t60 for sale, 80k
Event Information- 10/15/08 Fiero 4t60 Conferance
Totally O/T- What do a 4T60 and a boat anchor have in common?
Trash Can-.....use your imagination!

I like them as long as people use them right!

Jason

quote Originally posted by BrewCheese: I like them as long as people use them right!

There's the rub. We can't even get people to quit posting non-Fiero related stuff in The Mall. While I think a few more/different sections are a good idea in theory, I think alot of members will end up posting in the wrong sections anyway. Someone's going to post pics of their dog in the Build section just because their dog once sat in their Fiero when he/she was changing the spark plugs. (And changing the front spark plugs in a 2.8 is as close to an actual build as there is. )

quote Originally posted by BrewCheese: Right Examples?? Technical Discussion and Questions- What do I need to do to put a 4t60 in? Fiero Maintenance- How much fluid does a 4t60 take? Build and How To's- How I installed a 4t60 in a 87 GT. General Fiero Chat- Whose fiero did I spot in Chicago with a 4t60? The mall- 4t60 for sale, 80k Event Information- 10/15/08 Fiero 4t60 Conferance Totally O/T- What do a 4T60 and a boat anchor have in common? Trash Can-.....use your imagination!

That last would be "Trash Can - Your 4T60 sucks and so do you!"

But yeah, that's about it.

A for TD&Q overlapping the Builds section, I don't think it is. TD&Q is actually for people needing help, the Build section is for people telling you what/how they are doing it. The reason I want a "Maintenance" section is because I don't want people to be afraid of asking "simple" questions. Plus it makes searching for the basic maintenance stuff a bit easier.

i think those sections are good cliff

(New idea. New post.)

If you're going to start new sections, may I suggest a few sub-moderators? I think each section (other than the Trash Can and possibly TO/T) needs a specific moderator to keep things square. It would need to be someone Cliff trusts not only to be there when something goes wrong (wrong section, flame war, etc) but also someone trustworthy enough to be fair. No favoritism. It should also be someone who thinks along the same lines as Cliff. (For example, there have a been a few threads I think should have been closed that Cliff felt should be left open. Most of the time, Cliff happened to be right.) It would also need to be someone who has proven to be a regular user. Just because someone has posted 4000 times in the 2 weeks they've been a member, doesn't mean that they're here to stay. Finally (until I think of something else to say), the sub-moderator should be someone with a decent command of the English language (even if English isn't their native tongue). I only say this because this forum is in English and there are some (many?) times something might be misconstrued if it were to be translated into another language. (Does that make any sense? See what I mean? Try translating that into Swahili and see what you get.)

I think it would be cool to instead have a seperate technical discussion including minor stuff (like it is now) and then add a how toos section and maybe over time move how to threads over... if thats possible. Even have some kind of flagging system that would automaticly move noteworthy how to threads to the how to board.

my .02 cents

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: This is what I had in mind: Technical Discussion & Questions Stuff like engine swaps, etc. Fiero Maintenance The simpler stuff like questions on how to change oil, troubleshoot a failing headlight system, best way to burp the cooling system, etc. Builds and How To's For build threads and How To's (duh). General Fiero Chat No changes, for stuff like where to buy parts, who that Fiero was you saw on the highway, etc. The Mall No Changes. Event Information Will replace the Club Announcement section since that's hardly used anyway. Totally O/T No changes. Trash Can No changes. So, what do you think?

I dig organization. Those sound reasonable. I like it.

-fh

I like how the new list is organized, it will makes things more focused and easier to find.

I would like to see the articles section on the main page expanded more. There are some very good threads that we should have archived in the article section so we can find them when we want to refer to them. The V6 removal thread by toddster and the 100 dollar brake upgrade thread are a few suggestions of mine.

quote Originally posted by Monkeyman: (New idea. New post.) If you're going to start new sections, may I suggest a few sub-moderators? I think each section (other than the Trash Can and possibly TO/T) needs a specific moderator to keep things square. It would need to be someone Cliff trusts not only to be there when something goes wrong (wrong section, flame war, etc) but also someone trustworthy enough to be fair. No favoritism. It should also be someone who thinks along the same lines as Cliff. (For example, there have a been a few threads I think should have been closed that Cliff felt should be left open. Most of the time, Cliff happened to be right.) It would also need to be someone who has proven to be a regular user. Just because someone has posted 4000 times in the 2 weeks they've been a member, doesn't mean that they're here to stay. Finally (until I think of something else to say), the sub-moderator should be someone with a decent command of the English language (even if English isn't their native tongue). I only say this because this forum is in English and there are some (many?) times something might be misconstrued if it were to be translated into another language. (Does that make any sense? See what I mean? Try translating that into Swahili and see what you get.)

I think that is a great idea. I'd even be interested in being a mod. I have been on another board awhile back. Need to keep some law and order around here!

So do threads under the wrong header get moved? I can see the "thread moved to xxx" messages piling up quickly. I'd like to voice a vote for keeping all three under one umbrella - I can easily skip the ones that dont interest me. To be fair, it would just mean having to click on more headers as I generally read them all, anyway.

I like it Cliff. What ever you decide I will work with..... Thanks for keeping everything running so smooth...

Cliff,

There is a feature I would like to see added. It is not a new section however.

When you start a new thread there is already a feature that will allow you to check a box that lets you receive emails when someone posts in that thread. However...if you forget to check that box then there is no way to go back and select that option. Can you add that option so it is available on every thread, to everyone (even if you did not start the thread), and at all times instead of just the new thread creation page?

I like Cliff. The suggested changes work for me. Thanks

My only suggestion would be that how to threads have their own section completely. I see way to many "build" threads that are more wish threads, or pictures of what people bought that are supposed to go on their cars, badly incomplete builds, etc. Or maybe, once a complete build up/how to is posted, you could move it to that section and make it so that section cannot have new threads created in it?

quote Originally posted by JimmyS: Cliff, There is a feature I would like to see added. It is not a new section however. When you start a new thread there is already a feature that will allow you to check a box that lets you receive emails when someone posts in that thread. However...if you forget to check that box then there is no way to go back and select that option. Can you add that option so it is available on every thread, to everyone (even if you did not start the thread), and at all times instead of just the new thread creation page?

I think that would be a great idea. When an update is done on a thread, the people can receive an email that there is a response to the thread they have selected. Right now, Cliff has been kind enough to put my Build Section as a sticky. I would not mind being the moderator of that area ( since I already am ) but I would like to clean up all of the answers and comments so that there is only a list that can be seen. When someone wants me to update the list, they can just send me a link to their build rather than asking me via a post.

I like it the way it is, no more sections. Just my opinion.
This is the best forum.
Good Luck
Gary

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: Technical Discussion & Questions Stuff like engine swaps, etc. Fiero Maintenance The simpler stuff like questions on how to change oil, troubleshoot a failing headlight system, best way to burp the cooling system, etc. Builds and How To's For build threads and How To's (duh).

Adding the "Fiero Maintenance" section seems IMHO a very natural and useful distinction to make.

Separately, however, I didn't find intuitively obvious the distinction between the first and the third sections mentioned immediately above partly because, not understanding some of the terminology being used, I mistakenly concluded that an "engine swap" necessarily always involves a "build" as well.

Accordingly, to improve the chances of this new classification system working properly, we may need some more specificity in the explanation of what each section covers. The greater specificity of the examples created by Brew Cheese helped clarify things much better for me, and hopefully something along those lines would clarify these section classifications for others as well:

quote Originally posted by BrewCheese: Technical Discussion and Questions- What do I need to do to put a 4t60 in? Fiero Maintenance- How much fluid does a 4t60 take? Build and How To's- How I installed a 4t60 in a 87 GT. General Fiero Chat- Whose fiero did I spot in Chicago with a 4t60? The mall- 4t60 for sale, 80k Event Information- 10/15/08 Fiero 4t60 Conferance Totally O/T- What do a 4T60 and a boat anchor have in common? Trash Can-.....use your imagination!

With something like those clarifications, I'm reasonably confident that I could correctly place my threads in the proper category easily, and would hope that others agree they could envision themselves doing the same thing.

Incidentally, if the 4T60 is used as an example, I suggest making the explanations of these classifications even more transparent by noting once, for the benefit of those who aren't aware of it, that a "4T60" refers to a "4T60 transmission."


And finally, instead of the somewhat vague explanation offered by Brew Cheese for the "Trash Can" section...

quote Originally posted by BrewCheese: Trash Can-.....use your imagination!

...I'd prefer the greater specificity in the example provided by Cliff Pennock:

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: That last would be "Trash Can - Your 4T60 sucks and so do you!"

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: Technical Discussion & Questions Stuff like engine swaps, etc. Fiero Maintenance The simpler stuff like questions on how to change oil, troubleshoot a failing headlight system, best way to burp the cooling system, etc. Builds and How To's For build threads and How To's (duh).

i don't know. seems like people able to do an engine swap end up doing it as part of a whole build. would they cut off their swap thread once they got to the rest of the car and switch to the builds forum, or vice versa if building the body came first? have lots of forum cross referencing?

maybe split it into two sections instead of three, like basic and advanced.

quote Originally posted by JimmyS: Cliff, There is a feature I would like to see added. It is not a new section however. When you start a new thread there is already a feature that will allow you to check a box that lets you receive emails when someone posts in that thread. However...if you forget to check that box then there is no way to go back and select that option. Can you add that option so it is available on every thread, to everyone (even if you did not start the thread), and at all times instead of just the new thread creation page?

Second this!
It would be nice to be able to subscribe to someone else's thread (or un-subscribe) even if it's been going for a while.
This would make the Forum waaaay more useful for some folks.

As for the sections?
I'm perfectly okay with the list that you posted.

Thanks!

------------------
Raydar
88 4.9 Formula IMSA Fasback..........................88 3.4 coupe -soon to be something other than red

Read Nealz Nuze! Praise the Lowered!

Looks good to me, as well as the subscription suggestions.
I personally see no need for 'sub moderators'. Compared to a few years ago, OT is pretty calm.

Sounds very good, what about changing the limit of pictures? maybe 200kbs? 250? Just my $.02.

i think you need a "Welcome To New Members" section that introduces Orge's Cave, Vendors List and SEARCH sections so that the newbies can help themselves to engine swaps, air filters, wipers, etc. etc. Maybe even spell out the most common topics in a list ....

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: Technical Discussion & QuestionsStuff like engine swaps, etc. Fiero MaintenanceThe simpler stuff like questions on how to change oil, troubleshoot a failing headlight system, best way to burp the cooling system, etc. Builds and How To'sFor build threads and How To's (duh).

My Suggestions:
Technical Discussion & Questions Stock Fieros2.5L4 & 2.8V6 cars
Technical Discussion & Questions Modified or Custom FierosEngine Swap Questions/Mods etc
Builds and How To's) Dont let this section get archived?

Andrew

I like your ideas Cliff. Go for it. The sub-categories in Technical of Stock and Modified sounds good too.

I like the sections you have listed, Cliff. Except rename the Trash Can to the Litter Box.

Seems like a good variety. Don't go more than that though. I am a member of some forums that just have way too many sections. Gets annoying.

quote Originally posted by Hulki U. My-BFF: I like the sections you have listed, Cliff. Except rename the Trash Can to the Litter Box.

that or The Toilet Bowl

I was thinking maybe for the Build Section arrange it so the threads don't move up or down when posts are made. Possibly have the threads arranged by engine swap, suspension, brakes, body work, etc but keep them in order and simply have them light up when a new post is made. I know it might grow to be a real long list, but I'd prefer that to having threads get buried and lost and having them all mixed together.

How about a WANTED section?

Clif, I like the Idea.
the only question I would have is. if you do this do we need to start the threads over in the new sections or will you be able to transfer them over to the new sections?
I would hate to repost all of it into a new section. but other than that I like the Idea of a build thread because no one knows where they should post them.
I like watching the builds it would be nice to have them in one place.
D.

Cool.

Now all we need are proper subsections.

My suggestions (based on earlier threads on the subject):

Technical Discussion & Questions
So you are doing that kick arse engine swap but have some questions? Or do you need help with a brake upgrade that's going south? Post all those non standard tech questions here.

• General
  
• Engines (Stock)
  
• Engine Swaps
  
• Suspension
  
• Transmission
  
• Electrical
  
• Bodywork
  
• Interior

Fiero Maintenance
Need help changing oil? Want to know what the best way is to "burp" your cooling system? Do you have other general maintenance questions? This is the place to ask them.

• Engine
  
• Suspension
  
• Transmission
  
• Electrical
  
• Bodywork
  
• Interior
  
• Other/General

Builds & Articles
Building a 200mph Fiero? Taking your interior into the 21st century? Want to let everybody know how to do a headlight swap? Post away here.

• Body & Chassis
  
• Interior
  
• Drivetrain
  
• Entire car
  
• Other/General

Fiero Events
Information about future and past Fiero Events

• ?
  
• ?
  
• ?
  
• ?
  
• ?

Hey Cliff, I think we need a section dedicated to Fiero owners who have died. I know it sounds morbid, but other forums have them and it will eliminate additional threads. We need to keep the dream alive even though the person has died.

Example; https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/063264.html

------------------



"Friends don't let friends drive stock"

I like the new sections proposed at the beginning of the thread. Technical can be more than just engine swap, etc. Things like compressor math, custom spring rates for specific applications, etc.

I do see people posting in the wrong forums or reasking the same questions over and over again as a current problem though. It might become an even worse problem with new sections without more moderation. I too think that a few more moderators would be a good idea, but I picked up most of my negs during my last discussion on that matter. That said, let's not go down that road again...

Also, is there anyway we can get a rule regarding grammar and sentence structure? Another forum I frequent (DSMTalk) has a fairly strict rule on this subject (Rule #7) that makes reading the forum a lot better experience overall. Obviously, making some exeptions for non-native English speakers is easily done. Here's their rule:

quote YOU MUST post in plain, discernable, correctly spelled and capitalized English! Repeated failure to do so will result in disciplinary action. Threads that contain posts with poor grammar (regardless of whose it is) are subject to being locked.

------------------

My Build Thread

quote Originally posted by PaulJK: i think you need a "Welcome To New Members" section that introduces Orge's Cave, Vendors List and SEARCH sections so that the newbies can help themselves to engine swaps, air filters, wipers, etc. etc. Maybe even spell out the most common topics in a list ....

My idea was similar... a FAQ (wiki?) section that covers routine maintenance, forum usage, vendor info, etc. I think it would be more beneficial to have a FAQ section than a general maintenance section. Routine maintenance can be outlined in the FAQ. Other maintenance issues can be covered in TD&Q. And the customization, modification, engine swaps, etc can be covered in the Build section.

Just my two cents.

quote Originally posted by fieroparts.com: How about a WANTED section?

Do you mean as in "Dead or Alive"?