Just wanted to let you guys know that are interested in a set of 3800 mounts, I have my own design of mounts coming out soon. I bought some PR mounts awhile back for a swap and they fit like crap. I designed my own, and had a local machine shop build them for me. I am having them built with 2 of the pieces that bolt to the cradle made without holes, so you can line them up yourself and drill your own holes to match to your cradle. Its known that not every fiero cradle is made the same. This is why PR mounts dont work so well. If you have to drill your own holes to make them work, why do they even come with holes in the first place? They are made from 1/4" steel, and are actually straight, fit correct, and will come with all necessary hardware unlike others on the market.
Here is a picture of the prototype set I received today from the machine shop, and will be installing on a customer car in the very near future.
The poly bushings will be here tuesday.
also, since I am "standardizing" mounts, and if you buy my mounts and install them correctly (which there will be step by step instructions and pictures on my new website www.ftwmotorsports.net ) you will know where your engine sits in the engine bay. There are a few different types of mounts on the market, and depending on which mounts you have and where your engine sits in the engine bay, this will require different length axles on either side. So since my mounts will become the "standard" I am actually having brand new axles made from all new parts at the factory that supplies Advance Auto Parts. Eventually I will offer a mount and axle package.
So as for pricing there will be a few different pricing levels.
Level 1 $300 shipped, bare steel unassembled (save you a few bucks, and paint them and assemble yourself) Level 2 $310 shipped, painted gloss black unassembled Level 3 $325 shipped, painted gloss black and assembled <--this is the level PR mounts come) Level 4 $375 shipped, powdercoated the color of your choice and assembled (over 40 colors in stock)
You can also choose red or black polyurethane bushings on any level (no charge)
I can offer discounts for orders of multiple sets for the builders out there.
After I check the fit on the prototype set I will give the go ahead to the machine shop to start production. At that point I can have as many units in hand as necessary within 1 week. No more waiting 2 months to get mounts.
Lets hear your thoughts!
[This message has been edited by fieroX (edited 10-25-2008).]
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01:53 AM
PFF
System Bot
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
BTW these are for automatic 3800's only. I wont be making manual mounts for the time being, but I can sell individual mounts for a person wanting to use fiero mounts for their manuals, and the engine bracket and lower cradle mount for the engine. I havent gotten any pricing from the machine shop yet though.
You should let me test them out for you on a 3800SC swap I am fixing to start on. All new parts need R/D on them before they are ready for sale and I am willing to do that for you.. You need to to have a mount made for the newer 65E transmissions and also make sure the engine mount has the correct holes drilled for the 88s. These are 2 things that PR does not offer. Pm sent
OooOhh COPPER MOUNTS!!!!! Finally ! They will look great in my engine bay. I like how the patina will match the oil leaks!! It gives the old world look a new meaning with the Fiero.......
excuse my ignorance here, but are not the automatic mounts and manual mounts the same? other than the two brackets that bolt to the automatic transmission you should be able to use your kit.
for a manual transmission you'll need your engine mount bracket and bushing, and the two transmission bushings (the poly mounts) you just leave out the two brackets that bolt to the transmission itself.
should save the customer money, and still allow you to sell to the manual transmission crowd.
use the stock getrag or 4 speed metal mounts that bolt to the transmission, im pretty sure thats how all the other vendors do it.
matthew
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09:13 AM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
You should let me test them out for you on a 3800SC swap I am fixing to start on. All new parts need R/D on them before they are ready for sale and I am willing to do that for you.. You need to to have a mount made for the newer 65E transmissions and also make sure the engine mount has the correct holes drilled for the 88s. These are 2 things that PR does not offer. Pm sent
Well I am actually starting on 2 swaps an 88 Formula and an 87 GT and they will be my R&D cars. There is no such thing as correct holes for 88, cause as I stated in the first post the mounts that are different between the 2 cradle styles are left blank and you drill your own holes so you are insured a perfect fit. Pm replied.
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11:04 AM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
Sounds like a nice option for the 3800 swap. Any chance of a full 3800 kit.
I was thinking of possibly doing a full kit, but right now all my time is spent doing swaps. Once the swap traffic dies down (which may never happen), then I will start producing more parts to sell online.
quote
Originally posted by m0sh_man:
excuse my ignorance here, but are not the automatic mounts and manual mounts the same? other than the two brackets that bolt to the automatic transmission you should be able to use your kit.
for a manual transmission you'll need your engine mount bracket and bushing, and the two transmission bushings (the poly mounts) you just leave out the two brackets that bolt to the transmission itself.
should save the customer money, and still allow you to sell to the manual transmission crowd.
use the stock getrag or 4 speed metal mounts that bolt to the transmission, im pretty sure thats how all the other vendors do it.
matthew
Yeah, thats totally doable, Im just unsure how the factory brackets will mount up to my mounts, because the vital mount in my kit is the one that bolts to the rear driver side area of the cradle. This is the mount that bolts to the cradle, and bolts to the transmission, and this is the "point of reference" as to where your engine will sit. The front cradle mount that sits over the slotted holes comes un-drilled, and the cradle mount that sits under the harmonic balancer is un-drilled (they are drilled in the picture, the machine shop messed up, but the final production pieces will come un-drilled).
What you do to install is bolt up the cradle side mount at the rear, and bolt it to the transmission, then bolt the rest of the mounts to the engine and front of the tranmission, then bolt the cradle mounts to them while the engine is in the air. Then lower it into place, and set it on the rear mount pin. Adjust the engine to square it on the cradle. Best bet is to measure off the centerline of the output shaft to the center hole of the rear cradle pads. Then get under the cradle with a marker, mark the bottom of the mounts where the factory cradle holes are (the slotted ones and the passenger side pad under the balancer) pick it back up unbolt the cradle side mounts, drill the holes, bolt the cradle side mounts to the cradle, then put it all back together for the final fit. Only 1 hole will have to be drilled through the cradle, and that will be on the pad under the balancer.
All of this will be documented with pictures and put on my new website for reference.
Hope this helps.
[This message has been edited by fieroX (edited 10-25-2008).]
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11:05 AM
Back On Holiday Member
Posts: 6238 From: Downingtown, PA Registered: Jul 2001
HMMMM LOOKS LIKE YOU TOOK PR'S MOUNTS AND COPIED THEM STOP TRYING TO CASH IN ON OTHER PEOPLES IDEAS WHATS NEXT 350 ADAPTER PLATES?
some of the pieces have been replicated, a few of the pieces have been modified. Im not copying his ideas, if i did mine would be $375 also. Better price, better service, i win. And no, i wont do a 350 swap, i take people for a ride in my car and they want a 3800 instantly.
Also, you might want to check your caps lock key, it may be stuck.
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04:56 PM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
Originally posted by Fieronum6: HMMMM LOOKS LIKE YOU TOOK PR'S MOUNTS AND COPIED THEM STOP TRYING TO CASH IN ON OTHER PEOPLES IDEAS WHATS NEXT 350 ADAPTER PLATES?
LOL. Who are you the 3800 mount nazi? All of the mounts do the same thing so of course their going to look the same. What do you want him to do make his mounts with a cutout design on them? Thank goodness PR and X both make mounts now. Or are you just not about having a choice...there's other sources of mounts out there you could go bash as well. LOL.
(X, please send me a manual motor mount, I want mine to look like a dragon that's eating a pizza while riding a rollercoaster, please use a plasma cutter and it's ok however big it is, Thanks.)
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05:03 PM
Back On Holiday Member
Posts: 6238 From: Downingtown, PA Registered: Jul 2001
I agree, especially since the Fiero is 20+ years old and doesn't have a huge fan base. It's very fortunate we have anybody at all making parts for these cars.
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07:15 PM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
In the end, this is the same mount setup, with the same "flaws" (please note that its merely my opinion that I dont like this style of mount for all intensive purposes).
The issue here is that you still HAVE to run a dogbone, which on both manual and automatic swaps can be avoided easily with a small amount of engineering. The ways I do it require welding, but in the end my mount setup costs VERY little due to limited cutting and fabrication required.
These WCF inspired designs are outdated compared to what we swappers have found to be better options. Poly mounts are also another outdate here, as "racers" want rubber mounts for improved axle life and wheelhop elimination, and daily driver/show circuit people would want rubber for vibration resistance. Price is the last bit here, as the rubber is usually cheaper, and easier to source direct replacements (ever try to buy 1 or 2 88 rear link poly bushings before?)...
The transmission mount is still 02 or older specific, so if you have a new trans your SOL.
I am sure these mounts work, and obviously there are 100's of these mount setups in cars and driving without issues, but I would have liked to see a REAL alternative option to the wcf/pr mounts currently availible using some more cost effective and "performance minded" solutions. Dont get all bent out of shape and blame this post as being a flame, as I am just trying to offer some constructive criticisms.
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11:38 AM
Chicken McNizzle Member
Posts: 1310 From: Valencia, CA Registered: Jan 2004
HMMMM LOOKS LIKE YOU TOOK PR'S MOUNTS AND COPIED THEM STOP TRYING TO CASH IN ON OTHER PEOPLES IDEAS WHATS NEXT 350 ADAPTER PLATES?
Your joking right? PR copied the mounts from WCF
Nothing wrong with having a 3rd option available, might actually take some workload off of WCF to get other items out faster - everything is, afterall, fabricated case by case basis. Sure, the materials are in stock, but every single part on the website has to be fabricated.
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02:26 PM
Chicken McNizzle Member
Posts: 1310 From: Valencia, CA Registered: Jan 2004
These WCF inspired designs are outdated compared to what we swappers have found to be better options.
"We swappers"? Aren't you the only one foolish enough to run WITHOUT a dogbone? If a multi-million dollar organization, such as General Motors, with millions spent in research in design seems to deem a dogbone necessary - maybe it's for more than aesthetic purposes
quote
Poly mounts are also another outdate here, as "racers" want rubber mounts for improved axle life and wheelhop elimination, and daily driver/show circuit people would want rubber for vibration resistance.
Please tell me you didn't just make up this blanket statement. Come on out to Pomona raceway with me and let's count how many 10 second or less cars we see using rubber mounts....
...oh, don't worry, I'll wait for your count
quote
Price is the last bit here, as the rubber is usually cheaper, and easier to source direct replacements (ever try to buy 1 or 2 88 rear link poly bushings before?)...
Which is more important to you? CHEAP or VALUE?
quote
I am sure these mounts work, and obviously there are 100's of these mount setups in cars and driving without issues, but I would have liked to see a REAL alternative option to the wcf/pr mounts currently availible using some more cost effective and "performance minded" solutions. Dont get all bent out of shape and blame this post as being a flame, as I am just trying to offer some constructive criticisms.
Get out there and build them, that's all I can say. Design them, order materials, fabricate them, promote them, try your hardest to keep a low overhead, and at the same time try and make a buck or two - If your a firm believer on the downsides of the others out there then selling your's shouldn't be a problem
------------------ Recanizin' Flat-Buns Since 2001
Eric Nelson Internet Sales Manager Power Ford Valencia nelsone@autonation.com
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02:43 PM
Dennis LaGrua Member
Posts: 15480 From: Hillsborough, NJ U.S.A. Registered: May 2000
HMMMM LOOKS LIKE YOU TOOK PR'S MOUNTS AND COPIED THEM STOP TRYING TO CASH IN ON OTHER PEOPLES IDEAS WHATS NEXT 350 ADAPTER PLATES?
West Coast Fiero was the first to come out with 3800 Fiero swap mounts. Chris West developed the original design. Purplereigns are exactly the same but he uses 1/4" steel rather than the 3/16" steel that WCF uses. We've seen em side by side and while Purplereigns are heavier I can assure you that he copied WCF's design. Another point is that WCF is the only source for the late model 04-08 4T65eHD trans brackets. The late model 4T65eHD normally mount with a single bracket at the rear. To get this trans to mate with the Fiero rear mounting point requires a special bracket that uses the bolt on that side ( the other bolt hole is useless as its too shallow) plus a pin that fits into the transmisson boss. There appears to be no other way to attach a bracket there. Take a look:
------------------ 87GT - 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. 87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H " I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 10-26-2008).]
In the end, this is the same mount setup, with the same "flaws" (please note that its merely my opinion that I dont like this style of mount for all intensive purposes).
The issue here is that you still HAVE to run a dogbone, which on both manual and automatic swaps can be avoided easily with a small amount of engineering. The ways I do it require welding, but in the end my mount setup costs VERY little due to limited cutting and fabrication required.
These WCF inspired designs are outdated compared to what we swappers have found to be better options. Poly mounts are also another outdate here, as "racers" want rubber mounts for improved axle life and wheelhop elimination, and daily driver/show circuit people would want rubber for vibration resistance. Price is the last bit here, as the rubber is usually cheaper, and easier to source direct replacements (ever try to buy 1 or 2 88 rear link poly bushings before?)...
The transmission mount is still 02 or older specific, so if you have a new trans your SOL.
I am sure these mounts work, and obviously there are 100's of these mount setups in cars and driving without issues, but I would have liked to see a REAL alternative option to the wcf/pr mounts currently availible using some more cost effective and "performance minded" solutions. Dont get all bent out of shape and blame this post as being a flame, as I am just trying to offer some constructive criticisms.
Once again you talk out your azz. Post some pictures of your wonderful mounts and even pictures of your top of the line swaps. Start with pictures of BigFieroMans swap where the axle busted on the first trip out and the dogbone you tried to weld fell off at the track then end it with pictures of the exhuast you hacked together. Just do us all a favor and post some pictures of all these great engineered swaps you have done, that will prove alot.
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03:56 PM
gunslinger Member
Posts: 352 From: southland pines,fl Registered: Mar 2008
I believe DH uses custom brackets with rubber Dodge truck engine mounts which is quite strong. I see a flaw in the WCF/Purplereign/Fiero X designs which is that they locate the front ( or left) mount outboard of the frame area. IMO this is a weakness in the design. My mounts use the same configuration but I custom fabricated a strong dogbone mount that connects in the Fiero OEM location. So far so good but I haven't been down the 1/4 mile as yet. I will soon extend the cradle area with an L channel placing it under the front mount so that the contact point for the mount will be right below the bracket. BTW, although my mounts are poly I have not experienced undue amounts of vibration or noise. The engine even idles smoothly and quietly.
------------------ 87GT - 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. 87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H " I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
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04:54 PM
htexans1 Member
Posts: 9114 From: Clear Lake City/Houston TX Registered: Sep 2001
My mounts use the same configuration but I custom fabricated a strong dogbone mount that connects in the Fiero OEM location.
My mounts will locate the engine in the area where you can use the stock 3800 grand prix aluminum dog bone mount and it will line up with the stock location so you can use the stock dog bone (but I recommend using Rodneys adjustable one, since things can vary by 1/2"). Then you make a low mount alternator bracket with some 3/4" steel tubing with a 3/8" hole. Very simple design, silentassassin post a pic if you would like, to show the unit I built for yours.
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06:06 PM
PFF
System Bot
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
another thing guys, I know i dont totally agree with DH all the time, but his dogboneless idea isnt anything new, and should work fine if its designed correctly. Look at the Buick Riviera for example (thats my daily driver 1996, with 2000 L67), it doesnt use a torque strut mount of any kind. It has a mount that bolts to the front of the engine and to the chassis of the car.
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06:38 PM
Sphynx Member
Posts: 350 From: The Fort, CO Registered: Jun 2008
I hope the prototype mounts would hold up on the cars that you're testing them out on. Would they be able to handle a lot of power?
Handled a 12.2 out of me, and a few hours of road racing at waterford hills (although the engine braking dogbone I added for the road racing broke, I was not able to finish weld it before it went on for race day) It worked fine for the track without the dog bone, I just wouldnt mind the extra rigidity.
I had a nearly solid mount on my fiero, and when I eliminated and went to all rubber it my wheelhop issues went away.
Handled a 12.2 out of me, and a few hours of road racing at waterford hills (although the engine braking dogbone I added for the road racing broke, I was not able to finish weld it before it went on for race day) It worked fine for the track without the dog bone, I just wouldnt mind the extra rigidity.
I had a nearly solid mount on my fiero, and when I eliminated and went to all rubber it my wheelhop issues went away.
Pictures?
I run poly mounts with upper dogbone and have no issue with wheel hop at all.
[This message has been edited by MstangsBware (edited 10-26-2008).]
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11:44 PM
Oct 27th, 2008
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
Handled a 12.2 out of me, and a few hours of road racing at waterford hills (although the engine braking dogbone I added for the road racing broke, I was not able to finish weld it before it went on for race day) It worked fine for the track without the dog bone, I just wouldnt mind the extra rigidity.
I had a nearly solid mount on my fiero, and when I eliminated and went to all rubber it my wheelhop issues went away.
Thats not what he is talking about. His car is sitting in my shop right now about to get a 3800 turbo I am building for him. He is getting a set of prototype mounts.
Thomas, you dont have anything to worry about man. These are made of 1/4" steel, and they dont have any weld caves or pinholes like the PR mounts do. The guy that does all of my welding looked at the PR mounts and found numerous areas that could be prone to cracking. Of course to date nobody has broken one, so the fact that mine are actually welded better makes me confident that your setup will be good for at least 600 hp
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12:17 AM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
I run poly mounts with upper dogbone and have no issue with wheel hop at all.
My mounts are 1/4" plate steel with 1/2" poly insulators with a poly dogbone, and I dont have wheelhop issues either. My engine moves absolutely 0 under full acceleration. You might want to adjust your spring rate if you are having hop issues.
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12:19 AM
BabyVet Member
Posts: 1173 From: Kansas City, Kansas Registered: May 2008
My mounts are 1/4" plate steel with 1/2" poly insulators with a poly dogbone, and I dont have wheelhop issues either. My engine moves absolutely 0 under full acceleration. You might want to adjust your spring rate if you are having hop issues.
That is how my setuo is also. I can remove my DB and there is still not movement from the engine/trans.
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04:01 AM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
Every 3800 swap i have seen up here with poly or "stiff" rubber mounts has wheelhoped at one time or another. Mine used to mildly before I changed over some of my stuff a year ago. The poly seems to put a very high frequency vibration through the driveline during wheelhop, that I believe to be quite dangerous. The rubber mounts I had before I fixed it, wheel hoped very slowly.
I might go to another setup now that I have my turbo, as I seem to have some other issues when I try to get out hard on street tires.
I am actually having brand new axles made from all new parts at the factory that supplies Advance Auto Parts. Eventually I will offer a mount and axle package. 
It gives the old world look a new meaning with the Fiero.......
Looks good man
