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5 Classic Cars Detroit Shouldn't Rebuild for the 21st Century by pcwentworth
Started on: 11-25-2008 03:29 PM
Replies: 104
Last post by: blakeinspace on 12-11-2008 02:35 PM
pcwentworth
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Report this Post11-25-2008 03:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pcwentworthSend a Private Message to pcwentworthDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post11-25-2008 03:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fformula88Send a Private Message to Fformula88Direct Link to This Post
Wow, that's more than a little rough, and not really entirely accurate. In it's day, the Fiero's styling was very well received. Hence the huge sales the first year.

I can understand the car being on the list with how it was perceived by the public at the end of it's run (as a reliability hazard and fire danger). However, attacking an aftermarket that sprung up around it, cheap shots at people who did like the car, and twisting things like how it's styling was perceived are just being petty.

Sounds like someone had an axe to grind on this one.
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cherokee 140
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Report this Post11-25-2008 04:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cherokee 140Click Here to visit cherokee 140's HomePageSend a Private Message to cherokee 140Direct Link to This Post
Personally I think a small fuel efficent cheap 2 place sporty car is just what detroit needs. They don't need $40,000 volt. They need a sub $17,000 sporty car that gets great gas mileage. Put Fiero type style in something like a Yaris and you would have a winner.
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Report this Post11-25-2008 05:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ToddsterSend a Private Message to ToddsterDirect Link to This Post
I get the Chrysler Cordoba and the Colt. But seriously, what brain bone wrote this article?

He listed the Fiero and Probe above the Pinto? the Aztek, and OH YEAH, the Chevette which they even mentioned by name? How about nearly ANYTHING built by AMC?
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Report this Post11-25-2008 05:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Francis TClick Here to visit Francis T's HomePageSend a Private Message to Francis TDirect Link to This Post
Just another so-call car guy/writer that knows not of what he writes. You just have to face it the uninformed will never like the Fiero.
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Report this Post11-25-2008 06:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2farnorthSend a Private Message to 2farnorthDirect Link to This Post
We'll see if they "approve" my comments and post them.
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Report this Post11-25-2008 06:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RCRSend a Private Message to RCRDirect Link to This Post
^^ What he said...

Bob
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Report this Post11-25-2008 06:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsDirect Link to This Post
Every vehicle has it's followers and it's haters. Guess which camp the writer comes from? Regardless, I quit subscribing to Popular Mechanics years ago. This just put the nail in it's coffin.

Ron
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madcurl
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Report this Post11-25-2008 06:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pcwentworth:

check this out ..sad...
http://www.popularmechanics...ew_cars/4274819.html


Linkie not workie.
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Report this Post11-25-2008 06:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fformula88Send a Private Message to Fformula88Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Toddster:

I get the Chrysler Cordoba and the Colt. But seriously, what brain bone wrote this article?

He listed the Fiero and Probe above the Pinto? the Aztek, and OH YEAH, the Chevette which they even mentioned by name? How about nearly ANYTHING built by AMC?


Another curiosity is the appearance of the Grand Am on this list. Does he realize that when GM killed the Grand Am, it was the company's 2nd best selling car, moving over 300,000 units a year? They replaced it with the G6, which was better in virtually every way, yet sold less than half as well. Not everyone may have liked the cladded body, but GM would love to find someone to buy 300,000 Pontiacs a year today, all models combined. So the car may have it's haters, but it was hardly a failure.

I agree, the Probe certainly isn't worthy of being in the top 5 either, but apparently resides there mainly because he dislikes the name.

How does the Yugo not make this list at all?
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Report this Post11-25-2008 06:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pcwentworth:

http://www.popularmechanics...ew_cars/4274819.html

"The Fiero may have received a resurgence in interest later in life. Why? Because the plastic body panels afforded tasteless Fiero aficionados the ability to rebody the car into all manner of exotic look-alikes-yuck."



Heh heh, these writers have to come up with something every month.

 
quote


"I happen to believe that no car should ever be named after an invasive medical procedure. And that's why the Probe sits atop this list."



I wouldn't take any of the article too seriously.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 11-25-2008).]

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Report this Post11-25-2008 07:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TintonSend a Private Message to TintonDirect Link to This Post
If you guys want to send a message to the guy who wrote it, his name is Ray Wert and he's also the Editor-in-Chief of Jalopnik.com . He also has his e-mail address and AIM listed there:

E-Mail: ray@jalopnik.com
AIM: DetroitWonk

Anyone want to flame his dumb ass? lol

------------------

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Report this Post11-25-2008 08:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NCTyphoonKidSend a Private Message to NCTyphoonKidDirect Link to This Post
just flamed this dumb ass
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Report this Post11-25-2008 08:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GT86Send a Private Message to GT86Direct Link to This Post
I'm not sure why he's attacking the styling, as it was well-received in its day and has held up very well all these years later.

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Report this Post11-25-2008 08:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GT86Send a Private Message to GT86Direct Link to This Post

GT86

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quote
Originally posted by madcurl:


Linkie not workie.


Works for me, but if you can't get to it, this is the blurb about the Fiero:

"This is what happens when you mix John DeLorean's vision for a sleek, sporty, midengined two-seater with General Motors bean counters' desires for a cheap, fuel-efficient and, um, cheap econobox. Sure, DeLorean's designs may look great in stainless steel and with a flux capacitor in the back seat, but on a smaller scale, in painted plastic cladding, the Fiero looked like the epitome of budget. But it wasn't just the exterior that came penny-pinched. The Fiero borrowed liberally from the parts bins of other GM economy cars such as the Pontiac Phoenix, the Chevy Citation and even the lowly Chevette. The Fiero may have received a resurgence in interest later in life. Why? Because the plastic body panels afforded tasteless Fiero aficionados the ability to rebody the car into all manner of exotic look-alikes-yuck. The name Fiero should never again adorn another vehicle. "
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Hulki U. My-BFF
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Report this Post11-25-2008 09:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Hulki U. My-BFFSend a Private Message to Hulki U. My-BFFDirect Link to This Post
Damn, guess I'm screwed. I own a Fiero and a Grand Am.
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Report this Post11-25-2008 09:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakDirect Link to This Post
Did you notice that you can leave a comment but it will only be posted once approved? What I find funny about this article is that they are claiming the Dodge Colt is a "Classic Car"! My cousin had a Dodge Colt - brand new - it was a wad right off the lot. I can not tell how many times I drug that POS into the dealership to get this and that fixed.

Unbelievable the amount of bad press the Fiero gets. I find most people that talk bad about the Fiero do not really know anything about the car. All they know is what they have heard or read from someone else. Just my opinion anyway!

Pat
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Report this Post11-25-2008 09:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GumbySend a Private Message to GumbyDirect Link to This Post
He's just ticked off because he couldn't afford one when they came out, he was still stuck driving his Pinto!!!
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Report this Post11-25-2008 09:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KEVSend a Private Message to KEVDirect Link to This Post
It get so old listening to people like this run there mouth's out a car they have no clue about. May he needs to stick to sucking up the oversea car company's... oh wait most of them made here..

------------------





1999 GMC Jimmy 2dr 4x4
1996 Chevy Lumina LS

1986 Fiero Base Coupe...NO OPTIONS !!
1985 Fiero GT 3800 N/A-sometime this year 3800S/C..maybe
1984 Fiero Indy-Restoring back to former glory

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Report this Post11-25-2008 10:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Francis TClick Here to visit Francis T's HomePageSend a Private Message to Francis TDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Hulki U. My-BFF:

Damn, guess I'm screwed. I own a Fiero and a Grand Am.


OMG, you don't!

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Report this Post11-25-2008 11:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pontiacman63383Send a Private Message to pontiacman63383Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Hulki U. My-BFF:

Damn, guess I'm screwed. I own a Fiero and a Grand Am.



Same here im actual on my second grand am and fiero. That guys an idot, i mean i understand people hating the fiero but as Fformula88 the grand am was one of pontiac/GMs best selling cars. It won several awards, and from what i read the only real reason he does not like it is becasue you could not get a massive v8 in it. The guy is stupid!

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Report this Post11-25-2008 11:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DitkaphileSend a Private Message to DitkaphileDirect Link to This Post
I'll bet the writer never drove a Fiero.
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Report this Post11-26-2008 12:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KhwSend a Private Message to KhwDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fformula88:


How does the Yugo not make this list at all?


Was the Yugo built in Detroit?

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Report this Post11-26-2008 02:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CooterSend a Private Message to CooterDirect Link to This Post
I wonder if my addition will be approved? I basically said that it is sad that an article written by an amateur on an online encyclopedia has better research than an article written by a professional journalist.
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Report this Post11-26-2008 06:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 88_Fiero_2M4Send a Private Message to 88_Fiero_2M4Direct Link to This Post
The Fiero may have received a resurgence in interest later in life. Why? Because the plastic body panels afforded tasteless Fiero aficionados the ability to rebody the car into all manner of exotic look-alikes-yuck. The name Fiero should never again adorn another vehicle.

That a quote from that. Wow we are tasteless. Granted I dont go for rebodys of Exotic Cars the fiero has its own look, but I think that alot of the other custom work that you guys have done cant be called tasteless. Some of the widebodys look great.
If anyone is tasteless I would look no further then the guy who wrote that article.
However I wouldnt buy a new fiero anyway. It just wouldnt be the same.

[This message has been edited by 88_Fiero_2M4 (edited 11-26-2008).]

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Report this Post11-26-2008 07:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Nosferatu187Send a Private Message to Nosferatu187Direct Link to This Post
In April Jalopnik had a pretty decent article about a 1986 GT. I wonder if it surprised Mr. Wert that many of the reader's comments were positive?:

http://jalopnik.com/376478/1986-pontiac-fiero-gt

Mike
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Report this Post11-26-2008 08:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Hulki U. My-BFFSend a Private Message to Hulki U. My-BFFDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Francis T:


OMG, you don't!


Yep, and '86 Fiero GT, and an 04 Grand Am GT.
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Report this Post11-26-2008 08:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Macs86GTSend a Private Message to Macs86GTDirect Link to This Post
it probably irks the hell out of the author that the fiero has been gaining somewhat in popularity, and getting some good press in collector mags such as garage. I always get nice comments on my gt from older folks who had one or knew someone who did, or the younger crowd which thinks its a cool looking car, or the other reason hes hating is because someone with a v8 or 3800 smoked his pos, and now he has to re inflate his manhood by bashing the fiero.

[This message has been edited by Macs86GT (edited 11-26-2008).]

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Report this Post11-26-2008 08:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DitkaphileSend a Private Message to DitkaphileDirect Link to This Post
I'll bet the writer never drove a Fiero.
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Report this Post11-26-2008 08:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsDirect Link to This Post
I emailed Ray, this is what I sent to him.

Ray,
I gotta tell you, you really missed the boat with this article. Just
how you came up with your choices of "classics" not to be reproduced
is beyond me. I'm not going to suggest any of the vehicles should be
reproduced or brought back as retro but, they all had some pretty
basic concepts behind them and most of them had some very good points.
I supposed you have to write something to get paid and I realize that
the article was your opinion but wow, you really blew it with this
one. That would be my opinion.

Ron

His response: How'd I blow it? Specifically.

Ray

My answer:

Ray,
My first issue is that you called these cars classics, in my opinion
and apparently, in the opinion of quite a few of the readers that have
responded, classics is not a term that applies. But, in the order you
brought them up in the article.

Pontiac Fiero: "Sure, DeLorean's designs may look great in stainless
steel and with a flux capacitor in the back seat, but on a smaller
scale, in painted plastic cladding, the Fiero looked like the epitome
of budget. But it wasn't just the exterior that came penny-pinched.he
Fiero borrowed liberally from the parts bins of other GM economy cars
such as the Pontiac Phoenix, the Chevy Citation and even the lowly
Chevette. The Fiero may have received a resurgence in interest later
in life. Why? Because the plastic body panels afforded tasteless Fiero
aficionados the ability to rebody the car into all manner of exotic
look-alikes-yuck."

The styling of the Pontiac Fiero is still pleasing to the eye of many,
it's plastic or rust free body is greatly appreciated by all that own
them. You fail to mention that the Fiero had a great crash rating for
the time period it was built and, you also failed to say that all of
the Big Three share as many parts between models as possible. bean
counters aside, that's simply using common sense. Then, you make a
point to insult "tasteless Fiero aficionados", I don't know any
numbers and I'm not a real fan of look alikes or clones but, the fact
that the body panels are easily removed on a Fiero and the actual
chassis is a good platform for other modifications is not in my opinion
a bad thing. In today's economy a niche car similar to the Fiero
might sell well though, it's limitation of two seats is a problem.

Dodge Colt: The first generations were great front-engine,
rear-wheel-driven compacts. They were even capable enough to compete
in international rally competitions. When Chrysler hit its financial
downturn at the end of the 1970s, the Colt moved to the
front-wheel-drive Mitsubishi Mirage platform, and that spunky little
compact became a malaise-era econobox.

If I remember correctly, the industry was moving to front wheel drive.
Was the move due to it's manufacturer's economic woes, quite possibly
but, at that time everyone seemed to want front wheel drive. I wasn't
one of them but, it was still the trend. The Colt offered affordable
transportation for families. It had room enough for four fairly
comfortably and got pretty good mileage. Didn't we just go through a
fuel crisis? The front wheel transition could have also been one of
those situations where using parts from the bin was a good cost
savings move on the manufacturer's part. I would suggest that a
similar model might do well in today's economy if quality were similar
and compete with foreign brand names.

Grand AM: The original Grand Am was Pontiac's answer to European
luxury sport sedans, and with its big all-V8 engine
lineup,........Unfortunately, rising fuel prices forced the Grand Am
to be discontinued first in 1975, and then again in 1980 after a short
two-year run. It probably should have stayed dead. Instead, Pontiac
brought back the Grand Am badge in 1985 on their version of a GM
platform shared with the Oldsmobile and Buick brands.

European luxury sport sedans and others were big in the market but
also took some hits. For some reason Americans think foreign is
exotic, I can only believe that articles such as this are part of the
problem, don't think I'm blaming you personally, many magazines do the
same thing. Did the rising fuel costs affect any other brands
competing in this niche market? Again, sharing parts seems to be an
issue here. Have you ever tried designing, producing and marketing?
Doesn't appear that you have. While I would agree that much of the
excitement of American built cars has been missing for several years.

Chrysler's Cordoba: Not really sure what the issue was with this car,
you didn't seem to dislike it in your comments and yet, listed it as
one that should not be brought back. The Cordoba is probably the one
that I found most unappealing but, I still admit that Chrysler has a
following and produced the car for again, a niche market. I
personally don't care for the styling but apparently, many did.

Ford's Probe: Some say it's because the styling was too modern. I
happen to believe that no car should ever be named after an invasive
medical procedure. And that's why the Probe sits atop this list.

While I somewhat agree with you on the naming of the car, from all
reports I've heard, it was stylish, fairly economical and fit right
into a niche market that did in fact sell. My understanding is that
there were quality problems, just as most vehicles were experiencing
at the time but, I still believe that offering such a platform again
today could provide Americans with a viable alternative to many of the
foreign brands being offered if quality was equal.

On the whole, it appears to me that you had an idea for the article
and had to come up with a few names to list. Your reasoning for
picking each candidate was at best weak. This is just my opinion but,
after reading the replies I'm seeing on the Internet, I'd suggest your
article didn't please quite a few Pontiac Fiero "aficionados".
My disclaimer on this is I'm not exactly neutral, I own several Fieros
and though I'm not really upset with the article, the article shows me
that you may not know some of the vehicles well enough to be
commenting about them.

The Big Three tend to believe (probably correctly) that they need to
have a brand identifier, Chevrolet has the Corvette and is bringing
back the Camaro, Ford has the Mustang and the F150, Dodge has the
Viper and the Ram, yet, if some of these cars were not the name
recognition models for the companys (of which, has actively sought by
each), then, I would suggest that each one could have qualified for
your list.

Just my opinion, not worth much but, thought I'd share it.

Ron


I believe he will respond and if so, I'll let you know what and how he responds.

Ron

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 11-26-2008).]

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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post11-26-2008 08:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaDirect Link to This Post
Back in 1984 GM Created the Fiero 2M4. It had nice styling for it's day and if you speak with owners of 4 cyl Fieros, many of them ( with sound, rebuilt or low miles engines) are still getting 35-40 hwy MPG. Now, 24 years later 30+ MPG is considered great.
If there was ever a car to bring back for economy reasons it would have to be the Fiero. Today a Fiero 2M4 would have a high efficiency Ecotec engine in it, giving it more HP and probably even better gas mileage but instead GM pushes the Cobalt which is not as aerodynamic or IMO as good looking.

------------------
87GT - 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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Report this Post11-26-2008 09:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:
His response: How'd I blow it? Specifically.




Here is what I would have told him...

The Retro thing is 99% about styling. The retro cars look like the earlier versions, but mechanically are modern cars. The Fiero styling was always it's strong point and still looks good today. A two seater styled like a Fiero would be popular today.

Unfortunately, he is right that the NAME is tarnished, and the Fiero while insanely popular in the early years was canceled in a cloud of controversy around the recalls, so it's not a good candidate for a nameplate revival.
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Report this Post11-26-2008 10:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for snowblindburdSend a Private Message to snowblindburdDirect Link to This Post
I was under the impression that they did build a Grand Am in the 21st century, haha!

I'm thankful they did, as thats where my 3400 came from .

------------------

1990 Sunbird SE /// 1995 Beretta Base

[This message has been edited by snowblindburd (edited 11-26-2008).]

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Report this Post11-26-2008 11:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:


Here is what I would have told him...

The Retro thing is 99% about styling. The retro cars look like the earlier versions, but mechanically are modern cars. The Fiero styling was always it's strong point and still looks good today. A two seater styled like a Fiero would be popular today.

Unfortunately, he is right that the NAME is tarnished, and the Fiero while insanely popular in the early years was canceled in a cloud of controversy around the recalls, so it's not a good candidate for a nameplate revival.



But, I still don't think he knows much about the Fiero, I think he was getting on board with many of his fellow writers.

Ron
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fieroboom
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Report this Post11-26-2008 11:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroboomClick Here to visit fieroboom's HomePageSend a Private Message to fieroboomDirect Link to This Post
I also wrote, and am awaiting a reply. Here's what I had to say:

"1984, 30mpg. Show me ANY other mid-80's 30mpg car that sold 136,840 units in it's debut year, and looked as stylish as the Fiero. For looks comparison, here's a 1984 Mustang (third gen):
http://upload.wikimedia.org...e_(Orange_Julep).JPG
Absolutely hideous when compared to the stylings of the Fiero. Ford also built a 4cyl Mustang... And isn't it funny that Ford's 4cyl was rated at 88hp whilst the Pontiac Fiero 'Iron Duke' was rated at 85hp... 3hp more in a car that weighs roughly 1,000lbs MORE than the Fiero... Oh, and let's not forget that in 'the mid-eighties' Ford was about to change the Mustang to a FWD design, borrowed directly from Mazda. The difference is, Pontiac had the balls to try something new with existing materials, and Ford didn't. And this is just one vehicle of the era to compare with. So instead of grinding your axe on subjects of which you are ill-informed, try reading for once... You'll be surprised what you find. Oh, and don't forget that the '86 Fiero GT was closely compared to the '81 Ferrari 308GTSi, and beat it in several areas. Yes, a Ferrari."

------------------
Journal of a concept: http://southeastfieros.com

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whodeanie
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Report this Post11-26-2008 12:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for whodeanieClick Here to visit whodeanie's HomePageSend a Private Message to whodeanieDirect Link to This Post
I personaly love these little cars. but just think what they might have been if GM had done them the way they should have instead of using parts from older crap cars.
they would have most likely out sold the Corvette and replaced it as the new American Icon.
a lot of us here know all to well the short commings of these little cars but still love them and try to fix GM's mistakes every day (LOL)
because we all know the cars potential was and never will be realized by bean counters.
so I guess it will remain in our hands to keep showing them what they could have been.
there will always be people that don't like these cars but most of them have never owned or even driven one so IMO there loss not ours.
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kevin
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Report this Post11-26-2008 12:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kevinSend a Private Message to kevinDirect Link to This Post
Hey blackrams,
You should have asked this writer (sic) what HE drives? It would not surprise me if he does not drive a car He is most likely a hard nosed bicylclist or subway rider. Write him again and find out. Let us know...

Cordially,
Kevin
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Hulki U. My-BFF
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Report this Post11-26-2008 01:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Hulki U. My-BFFSend a Private Message to Hulki U. My-BFFDirect Link to This Post
Fieros suck. Don't you guys know this?
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Larryh86GT
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Report this Post11-26-2008 01:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Larryh86GTSend a Private Message to Larryh86GTDirect Link to This Post
They posted my comment:

My 86 Fiero GT turns a lot more heads than most of the cars on the road today. And if Ford had continued the Probe line I would still be buying Fords.

[This message has been edited by Larryh86GT (edited 11-26-2008).]

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Oreif
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Report this Post11-26-2008 01:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for OreifClick Here to visit Oreif's HomePageSend a Private Message to OreifDirect Link to This Post
You should include a link to this thread in your next Email to him.

As for the article, It is yet again another misinformed person commenting about a car he knows nothing about except for the rumors he has heard of over the years.
Someone should invite him out to one of the large Fiero shows. At least he can learn about the cars and us "tasteless aficionados".

He has no background in the automotive field: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Wert
I mean come on, the guy wants a Cadillac CTS Wagon: http://raywert.blogspot.com/

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