You youngin's... since you "love" you're beloved Fiero so much, what type of modification would you apply to your Fiero if you had say..hypothetically had 30k to modernize the Fiero? I'm looking for comments from those whos ages are between 17-25 yrs old. Please leave the excusses, I'd never change it cause it's a relic, 13" rims are my friend, and K-fed comments at home...stick to the question dang nab bit.

Keep in mind, you have to use extisting Fiero companies and various products that can be used for the Fiero and not some type pipe-dream out of this world ideas.
30K?

Engine. Which type?

Suspension. Brakes, which size?

Exterior body modification: What type, wide-body....

Rim/tires. Which type, size?

Which ones do you think would have the greastest "pop" in giving the Fiero greater exposure? A good exposure IMO was Kooljess's car featured in a upcomming movie and jscott's in Staying Alive. Both cars, although it only reveiled mostly the exterior gave the newbees something to think about.

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"Anyone can make a copy of something, it may look good but it ever is the real car. Make something from your imagination, something unique, something nobody has, anything is possible and, ideas can be a reality."

Ok, I'll play as you know we recently discovered that whats been known as the plazma might still be able to be bought from Russia, so that would be my first choice for the body. I like everything about it except the front end, its better than stock but it still isn't the most appealing to me so it might get changed. I'd start out with a pre 88 and get a suspention like this The engine and trans would be a supercharged ls1 auto with paddle shift. I don't know what the interior would be like but I'd probably strip all the vinle and padding that there and start over on the plastic pieces with fiberglass and do all the interior in either tan and black or grey and black. The wheels I'd like to mimic something some mad arch rival guy would pick out or try a set of some clear wheels that look promising. To top it off I'd go with either a nice bright red or a electric blue.

I don't think I would chop a plazma but I can't visualize the what it would look with its tapered door so I'm still undecided(my photoshop is old and I'm to lazy to try it)

[This message has been edited by jmbishop (edited 10-22-2008).]

Alright, you asked so I'm telling. I posted that I was doing a "secret project with an '88 coupe in another thread, but I guess I can unveil the plans.

Starting off doing an LSJ swap from a Cobalt SS/SC with 5-spd. To be done by FastFieros!
Archie's choptop
Norm's front end fiberglass w/ C6 headlights
Dietmar's side scoops, skirts, and F360 rear fascia
Pisa's euro tail lights
Z06 brakes
18" wheels with lo-pros (undecided on style) maybe staggered with 17's up front
Mr. Mike's leather seats Vetter style black w/ red inserts and embroidered "new" fiero badge
White face guages (adding aux. guage pod)
Alpine audio system

Yeah, that's the plan. I hope to be done by the 25th Anniv. Show!

[Edit to add that I am 21.]

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"Semper Fiero"

[This message has been edited by Jarhead 2m4 (edited 12-03-2006).]

I donno about upgrades, but i do know id have someone strip it to the frame, grind it clean and spray rhino on it so it would never rust..

Though a 3.8SC + 4speed OD auto sounds nice.. power but still can afford to drive it ( gas prices )

Beyond that little change id prolly keep it as stock as possible, i like the original looks. Though the thought of duplicating the 90GTA ( or a PPG ) wouldn't be a bad idea, it would still be 'original', so to speak.

[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 12-03-2006).]

First off Archies choptop! Sweet!
West Coast Fiero's 12" Vette brakes
17" staggered wheels (need the stock 88 15" offsets though, any help?)
Archies underspare battery tray
Modern heat shielding
Black carpet/headliner with dark grey trim
Tint to match my sailpanels
Already have the Black/Dark Grey Mr Mike's GT seats (very nice, I'd highly recommend them)
Rodney Dickman's short throw shifter/olelite bushings
3.4 conversion (I'd like 250+ NA HP with as much torque as I can get and still be streetable)
Increased flow intake/exhaust with a nice low grumbling idle sound of course
1" lowering kit (recommendations? Held Motorsport spindles, Fiero store springs or Rodney's balljoints?)
Reduce the unsprung weight maybe tubular control arms?
Polyurethane mounts, bushings etc.
Those great scissor doors you've got Madcurl
Brand new paint job, I'd stick with white but maybe a pearl coat white
Any and all details I can spruce up
and of course as much weight as I could shed without losing the amenities like PW, PL, PM, AC/heat etc.

I think I probably blew past that 30K budget you set long ago!

Okay: Start with an 1986+ GT fastback
Pontiac G6 6-Speed Transmission (Manual Of Course)
Pontiac G6 Dash and Steering Wheel
Pontiac G6 GTP Leather Seats (A bit tall for the fiero but we are dreaming)
Pontiac G5 Door Panels
Pontiac G6 GTP Polished Wheels
F-I-E-R-Os New and Improved "Fiero GT" Badge
2006 Pontiac Granite Metallic Paint (Beltline and mirrors color matched)
Tinted Quarted windows with no dot matrix
No Spoiler
"Gen 2" Side Scoops
Power Sunroof
LED Tail Lights
2005 Acura NSX Fixed headlamps with HID
Lowered 1-2 Inches on Tein Ghymkhana (SP) Spec Coilovers with EDFC (for hot dates)
Brembo GT Gran Turismo 13inch Front brakes with 6 piston gloss black calipers
12" Brembo rear rotors with 4 piston calipers
Enlarged Front and Rear Sway Bars
Full Poly Bushings

Now the Motor......
Impala SS derived LSx (305HP) with Cylinders on Demand System in tact for MPG
LS6 Intake Manifold
Block Hugger 1 3/4 Headers
Twin Borla Mufflers
True Dual Exhuast

I think $30,000 has come and gone

30k isnt enough. I already have about 20 in mine and have at least 15 or 20 more to go.

I think troyboy's car is how id fix mine up, but with suicide-lambo doors, and a targa top.

quote Originally posted by jmbishop: Ok, I'll play as you know we recently discovered that whats been known as the plazma might still be able to be bought from Russia, so that would be my first choice for the body. I like everything about it except the front end, its better than stock but it still isn't the most appealing to me so it might get changed. The engine and trans would be a supercharged ls1 auto with paddle shift. The wheels I'd like to mimic something some mad arch rival guy would pick out or try a set of some clear wheels that look promising. To top it off I'd go with either a nice bright red or a electric blue. I don't think I would chop a plazma but I can't visualize the what it would look with its tapered door so I'm still undecided(my photoshop is old and I'm to lazy to try it)

Hmm. Plasma...Interesting. Why the Plasma? Futuristic? Besides the nose, what other body part would you tweek and why? Rims...how deep of a rim/tire would you go? 10-11"? By wanting to go wider in the back, is this discison based on purely visuals/stance of the Plasma?

Over-all, would you be "okay" with the Plasma "as-is" or would it be that you wanted to take the Plasma to the next level? My guess is, "you want to take the Plasma to the next level" by tweeking it. Hypothetically, do you "think" the Plasma kit, is a car that GM should have made in 1989/90 vs. the Fiero concept cars?

Fieros are a sickness, and an expensive one at that. I drove my car 50 miles this year and I have spent close to a grand already.

quote Originally posted by Jarhead 2m4: Starting off doing an LSJ swap from a Cobalt SS/SC with 5-spd. To be done by FastFieros! Archie's choptop Norm's front end fiberglass w/ C6 headlights Dietmar's side scoops, skirts, and F360 rear fascia Pisa's euro tail lights Z06 brakes 18" wheels with lo-pros (undecided on style) maybe staggered with 17's up front Mr. Mike's leather seats Vetter style black w/ red inserts and embroidered "new" fiero badge White face guages (adding aux. guage pod) Alpine audio system Yeah, that's the plan. I hope to be done by the 25th Anniv. Show! [Edit to add that I am 21.]

I'm getting the "feel" for the style you're shotting for. No need to ask why the use of a LS1 but I will ask anyway. Why the LS1? Is it because it will closely match-up to your dream Fiero using the parts you've mentioned? If that's the case, I see why picked the Z06 brakes.

Like I've said, I'm guessing where you want to end-up with but, may I continue, why the choptop? Is it the rakeness of the roof? Why the use of Norms C6 flipper? Would you leave "as-is" or would you continue to tweek it? If so, what/why?

Doors? VDC, suicide, reverse VDC or "as-is"?

Why 17/18 combo? How wide/deep? If wider, would you add fender flares?

Mr. Mike's seats. Would you change the current disigns or opt for a custom made by him?

Existing guages. Besides the white face gauges, is there anything else you'd want to change or would the extisting interior match your dream exterior?

Thanks for pointing out your age.

You'll just have to wait and see Curly.

My dream fiero would be that orange GTR widebody one. Use that exterior/interior, no need to chop it if it's widebody. Camaro power steering, 13" brakes, some nice wide 17'' wheels with some hoosiers or kumho V710s, coil overs and konis with poly bushings. 6 speed trans and of course a built up N/A northstar with ~400hp at 7500-8000rpm. Only problem with a car that nice is that i would be afraid of scratching it by hitting cones at the auto-x, i wouln't be able to fully enjoy it.

Choptop, widebody, and gullwing doors, I would also go 3800SC2 if I had those resources. I was going to cut up my Formula but decided against it since its one of the rarer models.

Also WIDE tires in the rear, narrower ones in front.

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www.FieroDomain.com
Your guide to the Online Fiero Community, always under construction

sorry guys, but for 30k Id pick up one of these lightly used

I would go with
a fastback gt

custom nose, inspired by the EG series honda civic

a "diffuser" style rear bumper cover inspired by a 575 Marenello

maybe nsx lights

some z06 c5 brakes

the baddest northstar i can build

a 6 speed from the g6

a fi ero hood vent will do

coil-overs on all 4

and wheels hpr-5 from hp-racing/hp-design

modified aus stage II's

f355 replica interior

corvette taillight panel, changed a bit to sink the lights in deeper

ski-time window

kahines vent panel.

maybe that doesnt even hto 30k, the rest can be used for gas.

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PROJECT 1986 GT Stormbringer

I want to be 25 again.

somewhat modded/built 3800SC, 5-spd getrag, or maybe the 6-spd G6 tranny
convert all rubber to poly
17x8.5s in the rear, 16x7s up front
nice sound system
ferrari 355 nose
headlights like Yellowstone's
koni shocks, eibach springs, rear sway bar and strut brace
bigger front sway bar
corvette brake upgrade
sparco or recaro bucket seats
front lip spoiler of some kind
WCF exhaust + spintech muffler (not wcf headers tho, as i heard they are not great for 3800sc)

that should be at least 20k, then save the rest for fixing what i break

[This message has been edited by Jermz238 (edited 12-04-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Leeloo88: 17" staggered wheels (need the stock 88 15" offsets though, any help?) !

Archie has the numbers from Troy's and #020 rear rims for off-sets.

quote Originally posted by Leeloo88: 1" lowering kit (recommendations? Held Motorsport spindles, Fiero store springs or Rodney's balljoints?) !

I have both but Rodney's lowering ball joints would keeps the original suspension...it's just lowered by 1"

quote Originally posted by Leeloo88: First off Archies choptop! Sweet! West Coast Fiero's 12" Vette brakes 17" staggered wheels (need the stock 88 15" offsets though, any help?)

Staggered wheels...how deep? What is you mininum width for the rear tires? Which car currently resembles your dream Fiero? If so, what would you tweek to separate it from each other? Or would you go "as-is"? Would fender flares be on your list?

quote Originally posted by Zac88GT: My dream fiero would be that orange GTR widebody one. Use that exterior/interior, no need to chop it if it's widebody. Camaro power steering, 13" brakes, some nice wide 17'' wheels with some hoosiers or kumho V710s, coil overs and konis with poly bushings. 6 speed trans and of course a built up N/A northstar with ~400hp at 7500-8000rpm. Only problem with a car that nice is that i would be afraid of scratching it by hitting cones at the auto-x, i wouln't be able to fully enjoy it.

Why the GTR widebody Fiero? Other than the various engine modes and color what would you do that could separate your dream car from Alex's widebody?

If I had 30k, I would buy Madcurls silver Chop-top!!!!!! and put the lower frontlip on it!! That would be my dream car!

quote Originally posted by FieroWannaBe: I would go with a fastback gt custom nose, inspired by the EG series honda civic a "diffuser" style rear bumper cover inspired by a 575 Marenello maybe nsx lights some z06 c5 brakes the baddest northstar i can build a 6 speed from the g6 a fi ero hood vent will do and wheels hpr-5 from hp-racing/hp-design modified aus stage II's f355 replica interior corvette taillight panel, changed a bit to sink the lights in deeper ski-time window kahines vent panel.

Hmm. So taking bit and pieces from various cars and continued tweeking on those items is the way to go for you? Question, how would you install the NSX headlamps using existing Fiero bumper?

With the items you've mentioned, how wide would your tire/rim be?

well... the exterior of my 87 is already layed out in my head... a smooth one off homebrew widebody kit, 2"chop top (yes only 2 inches, and its just for the angles) color...?..?.. I want dark blue metalic but i might go with a white with overspray.. dunno.. interior is a one off also.. so that pretty much leaves the majority of the $$ for the engine.. I'm thinking 3.8SC auto, or maybe a G6 speed and LS? engine...

or...

I could just pickup a Kansas Products SD4 for my Indy and do a IMSA widebody kit from fierowarehouse on it with dual over the roof scoops..


hmmm the possabilities...

Josh

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Fiero, it inspires Insanity...
If you can't find a fire extinguisher, pour Sprite on it

-=Will Work For Fiero's, parts, $$, anything Fiero related=-

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Hmm. Plasma...Interesting. Why the Plasma? Futuristic? Besides the nose, what other body part would you tweek and why? Rims...how deep of a rim/tire would you go? 10-11"? By wanting to go wider in the back, is this discison based on purely visuals/stance of the Plasma? Over-all, would you be "okay" with the Plasma "as-is" or would it be that you wanted to take the Plasma to the next level? My guess is, "you want to take the Plasma to the next level" by tweeking it. Hypothetically, do you "think" the Plasma kit, is a car that GM should have made in 1989/90 vs. the Fiero concept cars?

The plazma looked great but to me the front bumper on the vary bottom corners of the wheel well is a little to wide to match the the sides, I like the simple sides that flow well but the bumper throws it off a little bit. I think Pontiac should have tried to release the concept they had if gm hadn't pulled the plug.
I know the plazma is wider than stock fiero but I don't know by how much, I would go as wide at possible with that body.
I don't really see the car as futuristic, especially since the front end shared the shape of a firebird bumper and the rear look a little like a lotus with more lights. I know there would be other things I would "tweek" but that would come as the car was being put together.

quote Originally posted by Vunda: If I had 30k, I would buy Madcurls silver Chop-top!!!!!! and put the lower frontlip on it!! That would be my dream car!

Thanks but, what would you "tweak" or update that would put your "signature" on the car and prevent Mr. Fiero syndrome.

Start with the 88 Fiero GT
Add:
3400 DOHC Turbo With redline of 7500RPM (370hp at 7100)

G6 6-speed

custom rear coilovers

front coilovers

solid cradle bushings

brand new tubular suspension Lowered 1 1/2 inches

Aluminum cradle

Imsa GT Widebody Painted LeMans Blue (or factory fiero blue) functional scoops.
if nit IMSA then stock body with vert subtle added front spoiler and stage three side vents.

17''or 18'' black painted or brushed aluminum, or carbon fiber rims
with these tires except in blue: VW Tiguan

12'' Corvette rotors and calipers

low profile pop up lights like these:
MY NEW Headlight Mod What do you think

Functional Extractor Hood scoop

Rear extractor scoop styled like the factory vents and Indy style scoop to bring more air into engine bay.

factory spoiler.

front blinker lights converted to brake vents.

Archies choptop #xx

Power VDC

LED Rear lights (amber converted to red)

Stock styled interior

Real carbon fiber to replace dot matrix.

200mph 8500RPM guages using factory GT font withgarbon fiber backing and blue backlit numbers. 2006 granprix GTP style needle. Electronic Climate control (out of some other GM vehicle)

Lightweight sound system (Sub and battery in front trunk)

Factory C4 Corvette seats covered by Mr.Mikes in Black leather With blue Stitching and new style fiero Logo saying 3400 TDC embroidered in silver and blue.

New style fiero logo with the background of badge in carbon fiber.

MOMO aluminum pedals.

G6 GTP or cobalt SS shift linkage modified for fiero and with aftermarket short shift kit with a plain annodized blue shift ball with a clear annodized shift map engraved on top.

New black carpet. special plastic inserts for foot wells that are removable to be cleaned.

and you get the 88 Fiero FormulaGT

Almost every thing needs to be high performance and contribute to performance. nothing added just for looks like neons. but everything thats already there can be styled. (especialy interior)

Sorry its so long ! kinda got caught up in my pipe dream

[This message has been edited by 4-mulaGT (edited 12-03-2006).]

quote Originally posted by NSAN1T: well... the exterior of my 87 is already layed out in my head... a smooth one off homebrew widebody kit, 2"chop top (yes only 2 inches, and its just for the angles) color...?..?.. I want dark blue metalic but i might go with a white with overspray.. dunno.. interior is a one off also.. so that pretty much leaves the majority of the $$ for the engine.. I'm thinking 3.8SC auto, or maybe a G6 speed and LS? engine... or... I could just pickup a Kansas Products SD4 for my Indy and do a IMSA widebody kit from fierowarehouse on it with dual over the roof scoops.. hmmm the possabilities... Josh

I like you're combinations and would spent most of the day viewing it too...especially the SD4 widebody idea. So, you you tub the rear for wider rim/tires? Your first one reminds with blue paint and strips reminds of Rickaddy's Fiero minus the add-ons you've mentioned. It seems you you're leaning towards wide bodies vs. Stock body?

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 12-03-2006).]

quote Originally posted by madcurl: You youngin's... since you "love" you're beloved Fiero so much, what type of modification would you apply to your Fiero if you had say..hypothetically had 30k to modernize the Fiero? I'm looking for comments from those whos ages are between 17-25 yrs old. Please leave the excusses, I'd never change it cause it's a relic, 13" rims are my friend, and K-fed comments at home...stick to the question dang nab bit. Keep in mind, you have to use extisting Fiero companies and various products that can be used for the Fiero and not some type pipe-dream out of this world ideas. 30K? Engine. Which type? Suspension. Brakes, which size? Exterior body modification: What type, wide-body.... Rim/tires. Which type, size? Which ones do you think would have the greastest "pop" in giving the Fiero greater exposure? A good exposure IMO was Kooljess's car featured in a upcomming movie and jscott's in Staying Alive. Both cars, although it only reveiled mostly the exterior gave the newbees something to think about.

30k to spend on what I want in a Fiero? Does it have to be in 1 Fiero?

These are plans I have for my Fieros....all of this will probably done gradually, since 30k isn't going to just plop down in my lap .

BTW I'm right in the middle of your age range..I'm 20 now, will be 21 in a week.

-1986 Fiero SE-
Engine: 3.4L DOHC V6 (LQ1) turbocharged.
Transmission: Swap the 4-speed Muncie out for a 5-speed Getrag.
Suspension: Replace all bushings with polyurethane, KONI shocks and struts front and rear, car already has a new front swaybar and a rear swaybar. I'd probably also go with some 1" lowering balljoints and 1.8" Intrax lowering springs. I'd probably also get a strut-tower brace, even though I've heard they don't do much.
Brakes: Grand Am or LeBaron upgrade all around. Is there a brake upgrade where I can keep the ebrake?
Exterior: Repaint the body panels in Metallic blue. I'd try to get some smooth molding on there somehow, yet keeping the Aero Notchback look. I'd probably also get some scoops from Aus.
Wheels: 17x7 front and 17x8 rear wheels, in chrome. 225/45/17 front tires, 245/40/17 rear tires.
Misc: Decklid struts so my decklid will stay up when I open it. Replace headlight motors and harness with setup from a '87-'88 Fiero. Replace gas tank with a '87-'88 larger tank. Replace all speakers, including those in the headrests, get a much better stereo and an amplifier so I could hook up the rear pillars along with the headrests. Put bass speakers from a 4th gen F-body to put in the doors, replacing the mappockets. While replacing the headrest speakers, replace the seats with Mr. Mikes' leather. Move the battery to the front.

1988 Fiero GT:
Engine: 4.6L DOHC Northstar V8. 300 hp version.
Transmission: 6-speed manual from NSX (West Coast Fieros).
Suspension: All new rubber bushings. KONI shocks and struts. 1" lowering springs and 1" lowering balljoints on the front, 1" lowering springs in the rear.
Brakes: Corvette 13" brakes all around. I really wish they could keep the ebrake.
Exterior: Nothing. Possibly a re-paint in the same color paint, since its old.
Wheels: Same 17" wheels that are currently on the car. Same tires.
Misc: New front speakers and rear pillar speakers. Custom subwoofer in where the glovebox is now, get a Fierostore glovebox to put where the front mappocket is now.

Edit: I forgot a couple things. Both cars would get high-flow catalytic converters, and the '86 w/ 3.4 DOHC Turbo would get a spintech muffler. '88 GT with Northstar would get true dual exhaust through flowmaster mufflers. '86 would get a tachometer from a Sunbird turbo (looks almost exactly like stock tach, except goes to 7000 rpms and has a boost gauge). '88 GT would get a stock tach, except it'd be recalibrated and re-drawn to 7000 rpms instead of 6000.

Anyone know if you can take a stock speedometer, wipe off the numbers, re-draw them to 180 mph, and re-calibrate it?

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[This message has been edited by Tinton (edited 12-03-2006).]

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Why the GTR widebody Fiero? Other than the various engine modes and color what would you do that could separate your dream car from Alex's widebody?

Only thing that i think i would change would be the tail lights, i would make it one piece and the same hieght all the way accross. Just the general style of that widebody is very clean, I might reduce the amount of ducts and vents and such but the main side scoops and how the body is wider than the cockpit area is what really appeals to me. I also think haveing the back section lift up in a one piece clam-shell like an F-40 would be awesome too.

Buy a Solstice GXP.

This could be a dangerous thread! It brings back memories. When I first talked to Archie in 2005, I told him that I was working on a 25,000 budget. But then the "pipe dreams" started add $$$, Then I started chatting with curly ...add $$$. After that I just put Archie’s number on speed dial, closed my eyes and opened my wallet. So what’s the danger ? this thread is giving me the itch to start a new project and my wife just gave me the evil eye.......

What the hay I have a guess room, time to start planning

I like my Fiero as is.

But with a 30k budget, I would 1st off, get an LS4 swap done.
Bigger brakes.
But leave the body stock.

Ultimate sleeper.

quote Originally posted by Shad0wguy: I like my Fiero as is. But with a 30k budget, I would 1st off, get an LS4 swap done. Bigger brakes. But leave the body stock. Ultimate sleeper.

Hell yeah. Stock body FTW. No one would expect a 300+ hp N* w/ 6-speed manual in my '88 GT, lol. I'd probably even go for a mild muffler and cat to make it even more docile sounding so no one could tell.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Why the LS1?

Not the LS1, the LSJ. It is a 2.0 ecotec supercharged 4 cyl.

quote why the choptop? Is it the rakeness of the roof? Why the use of Norms C6 flipper? Would you leave "as-is" or would you continue to tweek it? If so, what/why?

Just for the look. I would do a different vent on the hood of the flipper. I would like to try this. https://images.fiero.nl/pffimages2/HPIM0604_1.JPG

quote Doors? VDC, suicide, reverse VDC or "as-is"?

as-is, maybe verts down the line

quote Why 17/18 combo? How wide/deep? If wider, would you add fender flares?

as wide and deep as I can get them. 17/18 because the top of the front wheel is closer to the top of the hood than the distance of the rear wheel to the rear deck. If the wheels were the same size, the fronts would appear larger. no wide-body or flares

quote Mr. Mike's seats. Would you change the current disigns or opt for a custom made by him?

most likely a slightly custom seat. red/black or red/light grey combo with the revised fiero logo from the badges by F-I-E-R-O

quote Existing guages. Besides the white face gauges, is there anything else you'd want to change or would the extisting interior match your dream exterior?

maybe red faceplates to the guages. and im looking into a diamond plate aluminum floor mat

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"Semper Fiero"

Say "Blood Brother", what do you have against 61 year old Fiero drivers???????

I could dream a lot with that kind of money.

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: Buy a Solstice GXP.

If I were going to buy a different car with it, I'd probably buy a C5 Z06 or a GTO.

quote Originally posted by dobey: If I were going to buy a different car with it, I'd probably buy a C5 Z06 or a GTO.

Yeah but then you would have a slower car. Id bet any fiero thats modified worth 30k could spank a stock LS1 (I repeat stock)

quote Originally posted by LT188GT: Say "Blood Brother", what do you have against 61 year old Fiero drivers??????? I could dream a lot with that kind of money.

Nothing really but, sometimes [the yougin's] due to they're age (unbreakableness), no-safety restants, and endless $$$ while living at home (no kids, morgage), they have the oppertunity to venture into areas that other folks [like us] tend not to venture or exposed to. Example, Alex. He's currently attending a Design classes in CA. We've already seen his father/son orange widebody. Another young group is Rob & Chris at Archie's. If Archie let those two guys loose on the next choptop Fiero......we'll all have near heart attacks, hehe. This isn't the "Rule" but my viewpint for a older dude perspective, hehe.

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 12-03-2006).]