Thomas wanted me to start a thread about the 3800 Turbo build I am doing for him at my shop. We have been working on it for a little while now, but had a hard time finding some parts for his engine build that put us behind schedule. Now we are having "complications" with the weather not cooperating, to get some things done on the car itself (power washing, sandblasting suspension parts). But things are coming along and starting to take shape.

Here is a rundown on the setup. 2002 L67, completely rebuilt. ZZP stage 2 turbo cam, 8.5:1 compression, mild headwork. My old exhaust setup. T61 Master Power turbo, .68 a/r T4 turbine. Tial 38mm wastegate, havent decided on a BOV yet. FTW Motorsports engine mounts. 20k mile ago rebuilt 4t65eHD transmission with a 2500 stall, and a shift kit, other than that stock.

Im going to post up a few pictures each day, the first ones posted were actually about 2 weeks ago. The ones I post by the end of the week will bring you up to current.

So enjoy!

day 1, getting the 2.8 out

I got to invest in a lift, makes things look so much easier when pulling out a setup. Boy is Thomas going to be in stock the first time he drives the car with the new setup in it.

With my lift I can have an engine out of a Fiero and on the ground, everything unhooked fluids drained, etc in about 3 hours. Got an L67 out of a W-body today in about 2.5 hours. Best of all I dont have to lay on the ground anymore, and getting cradles to line up is a breeze.

Yeah, Thomas is going to **** when he drives his car again for the first time. Its going to be nuts.

In a few months I should be getting together some parts to do a turbo install on a series III n/a motor I just got recently. So make sure to post some good pictures and get your mounts on your website so I can buy them.....slacker. Sounds like a great project that I will be paying close attention to, thanks for posting it up.

quote Originally posted by fieroX: Im going to post up a few pictures each day...

I'll never understand why guys who can swap engines in their sleep can't figure out how to compress images to be less than 150kb.

quote Originally posted by fieroX: With my lift I can have an engine out of a Fiero and on the ground, everything unhooked fluids drained, etc in about 3 hours. Got an L67 out of a W-body today in about 2.5 hours. Best of all I dont have to lay on the ground anymore, and getting cradles to line up is a breeze. Yeah, Thomas is going to **** when he drives his car again for the first time. Its going to be nuts.

What takes you so long?

I can do it with a hoist in a bit less than two

Ive done it in an hour before, and had the cradle back in, but I was just pulling the Getrag out so I could sell it. So I cut everything. It takes me longer, because I do it methodically and the same way every time.

[This message has been edited by fieroX (edited 12-24-2008).]

quote Originally posted by fieroX: Ive done it in an hour before, and had the cradle back in, but I was just pulling the Getrag out so I could sell it. So I cut everything. It takes me longer, because I do it methodically and the same way every time.

And you are saying I don't?

I have never cut anything, why would you cut good parts? Bet whoever you sold it to didn't like that

And if you do it so methodically and the same every time you should definitely be faster than that by now with all your experience

Seriously man, I was just poking fun yo. I run around like a madman when I'm disassembling something, it's the reassembly that's important lol

[This message has been edited by RideZiLightning (edited 12-24-2008).]

Keep those posts and pics coming. This is a cool project.

Ron

quote Originally posted by fieroX:

Can I get a couple of pics of your dolley that your using there, Possibly some size and demensions of the tubing used. I want to make something like that for myself. Kepp the pics coming. -Jason

[This message has been edited by Fierofreak00 (edited 12-24-2008).]

quote Originally posted by fieroX: With my lift I can have an engine out of a Fiero and on the ground, everything unhooked fluids drained, etc in about 3 hours. Got an L67 out of a W-body today in about 2.5 hours. Best of all I dont have to lay on the ground anymore, and getting cradles to line up is a breeze. Yeah, Thomas is going to **** when he drives his car again for the first time. Its going to be nuts.

Right you are Ryan! Lifts are the best. It takes me about 3 hours to drop the cradle (A/C car) too.

Lifts are great, but one of these makes them even better - nothing like pulling all the cradle bolts with the cradle 3-4 feet in the air. Also, makes a good engine/cradle dolly and work bench.

I thought they were the newly installed wheelie bars. j/k.

That's a sweet setup in your garage. I remember when I had a garage, now I have to do all my work in the driveway, it sucks.

Dave

quote Originally posted by Fierofreak00: Can I get a couple of pics of your dolley that your using there, Possibly some size and demensions of the tubing used. I want to make something like that for myself. Kepp the pics coming. -Jason

[This message has been edited by Daredevil05 (edited 12-24-2008).]

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: Lifts are great, but one of these makes them even better - nothing like pulling all the cradle bolts with the cradle 3-4 feet in the air. Also, makes a good engine/cradle dolly and work bench.

I agree.... I have been meaning to get one of those.

couple of morning pictures for you all

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: Lifts are great, but one of these makes them even better - nothing like pulling all the cradle bolts with the cradle 3-4 feet in the air. Also, makes a good engine/cradle dolly and work bench.

This is what I really need to get before a lift. Nothing sucks more than bending down trying to work on something for a long period of time. I can deal with pulley the motor with jacks, dolly, laying on the ground, ect but trying to work on something at ground level just plain sucks. What is the offical name for that lift to look them up?

It's a hydraulic lift cart or some call it a scissor lift table

Looks great Ryan!

I can't wait when I get it back.

And yeah, I'll definately be surprised about the power.

couple new pics for todays progress



Ceramic coated the manifolds with 2000 degree black this morning, the intake is looking wicked. No pics until its all done though.

I will show this teaser of the mockup


here is another pic of the fiero dolly.


made from 2"x4" steel I beam. Real simple to make, just bolts up where the rear cradle bolts go.

why use that lower intake? the sc lower sucks and you know this.

well i ran 10.77 with the same lower, and Thomas only wants to run low 12's so we should be ok

Just wondering why you used that over the S3 N/A intake, since you're keeping the TB on the same side.

Im using it because it came with the engine, and Im building this for Thomas as economically and as powerful as possible.

[This message has been edited by fieroX (edited 12-25-2008).]

I dont know of any 3800 shop (including mine) that doesnt have at least a few L26 uppers laying around...

I barely didnt use one, the only reason I didnt was because I already had a turbo that spooled fast enough. That T61 with that intake is going to struggle to make decent street power, and for low 12s? Seems like alot of race minded parts to run 12's....

quote economically and as powerful as possible.

Economical? cam, timing set, custom heads economical? if your idea of powerful as possible is 12's, then why do you need a relatively "fully built" 3800 to do it? Race exhaust manifolds with no flex joints, 70lb/m turbo, custom upper intake on a junk lower intake, wouldnt a m90 case be "economical" and obviously just as powerful as a $300+ custom one?

[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 12-25-2008).]

i dont know why you guys argue about setups .i am looking at this thread to see how fieroX is going to do this job .i am sure all this stuff has been discussed with the customer already .

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I dont know of any 3800 shop (including mine) that doesnt have at least a few L26 uppers laying around... I barely didnt use one, the only reason I didnt was because I already had a turbo that spooled fast enough. That T61 with that intake is going to struggle to make decent street power, and for low 12s? Seems like alot of race minded parts to run 12's.... Economical? cam, timing set, custom heads economical? if your idea of powerful as possible is 12's, then why do you need a relatively "fully built" 3800 to do it? Race exhaust manifolds with no flex joints, 70lb/m turbo, custom upper intake on a junk lower intake, wouldnt a m90 case be "economical" and obviously just as powerful as a $300+ custom one?

X--The all mighty Turbo Master has spoken so you now must change the setup the way he has explained it or it will not work.

Once again--DarkHorizon comes in a Thread telling someone how they are doing it wrong and how it should be done cause that is how he did it. Yet DH has not proven to build anything worthy of even looking at and is a failure in everyone elses mind except his own. Last I check this was a build Thread that Thomas is paying FieroX to do and not you so your input is useless. When you find someone willing to pay you money for a swap(feel sorry for that person) then you can decide on how it is built. Until then keep making up stories on how you did this and how you did that on all the swaps you do with no pictures.

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: X--The all mighty Turbo Master has spoken so you now must change the setup the way he has explained it or it will not work. Once again--DarkHorizon comes in a Thread telling someone how they are doing it wrong and how it should be done cause that is how he did it. Yet DH has not proven to build anything worthy of even looking at and is a failure in everyone elses mind except his own. Last I check this was a build Thread that Thomas is paying FieroX to do and not you so your input is useless. When you find someone willing to pay you money for a swap(feel sorry for that person) then you can decide on how it is built. Until then keep making up stories on how you did this and how you did that on all the swaps you do with no pictures.

This is exactly what I was thinking. I can't thank you enough for the laughs on Christmas day!! The funny thing about this DH guy is whenever he goes to the doctor he probably is like oh that's not the correct diagnosis, I am going to figure it out my own way! He just sounds like someone that would perform his own surgery.

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quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I dont know of any 3800 shop (including mine) that doesnt have at least a few L26 uppers laying around... I barely didnt use one, the only reason I didnt was because I already had a turbo that spooled fast enough. That T61 with that intake is going to struggle to make decent street power, and for low 12s? Seems like alot of race minded parts to run 12's.... Economical? cam, timing set, custom heads economical? if your idea of powerful as possible is 12's, then why do you need a relatively "fully built" 3800 to do it? Race exhaust manifolds with no flex joints, 70lb/m turbo, custom upper intake on a junk lower intake, wouldnt a m90 case be "economical" and obviously just as powerful as a $300+ custom one?

you call your place a shop? first off thats the funniest thing ive read in the last week. Except for the Hores for Christmas (just google it if you havent seen it yet). Next, that car wont struggle at all to make decent street power. Being that I have the fastest fiero, I am revoking your opinion privileges until your car AT LEAST RUNS! How about that. I cant wait till you take that heap of crap to the track and it breaks.

So heres the deal on Thomas' setup. We talked about it a lot before he brought his car to me. We talked about all the options to get his car to where he wanted it. First of all my rule of thumb is this Cheap, Fast, Reliable pick 2. We picked the best of parts, for 2 reasons, for the car to be fast and reliable. He wanted a fully built car for the main reason of being reliable and not having to worry about it falling apart when it starts going fast. Now I know you are going to come back with a rebuttal about how your car runs 12's and only cost you $27 at a plumbing shop going out of business sale and a 6 pack of Natty Light to your neighbor Frank to build, but Thomas wanted something where he could run with Vettes and open the decklid and drop some jaws. He also has the capability to turn it up when he wants and go 11's if he wishes, he just picked out the parts, set a goal and Im building it to his specifications.

Now I could of built him a much cheaper setup that would run the same time at the track, for sure. I could of dropped in a high mileage L67, gutted the blower and used it as the manifold, got a junkyard turbo and bolted it to the back of the exhaust manifolds, cut out the trunk and called it a day. Instead this engine is completely rebuilt and all painted, powdercoated, and ceramic coated. Everything is tig welded aluminum and stainless steel, turbo is brand new with a 1 year warranty. He will also keep his trunk, his car will run low 12's and be capable of being driven daily. I am developing an intake right now that will be a bolt in, with an integrated intercooler and I will hopefully have them on the market sometime in 09. At that point he will be able to bolt one on, put in the heat exchanger, turn up the boost to 18 psi or so and run low 11's. Im going to bet you Thomas will go low 12's on 10-12 psi of boost, non intercooled.

So anyway, stay out of Thomas' threads with your trash. Build something better, then talk down my builds.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Seems like alot of race minded parts to run 12's....

Ever hear the phrase "under commit and over deliver"?

As Ryan said Thomas made it very clear exactly what he wanted. One of his main things was it had to be turbo, so it takes some expensive parts to make a very reliable high 11's streetable fiero. Thomas also wanted it to be strong enough to do some road racing with the car, this kind of racing where you are on and off the throttle alot is extremely hard on engine components. Anyways there were many aspects that were considered doing this build, and we dont want to disappoint!

FieroX, don't let little old DarkHorizon get your goat. He lives in Flint, MI. I am originally from Detroit. No excuses kinda town. Flint, well Flint is like the methhead brother that is always "borrowing" a cigarette. You can only feel sorry for him a few times, then he will always return to "borrow" a smoke. Flint is where you go to..., well, nobody goes to Flint. In my entire life, nobody I have ever known has said, "I am going to vacation in Flint." And don't get me started about their genepool over there. Lets just say that after nearly a century of pouring waste into the ecosystem from all of the delapitated factories that used to operate in that area, the breeding population is not of thoroughbred quality.
So I say, build what you want, quit knocking others, and if you can't get your own shat together, then shut your hole.

P.S. Hope that I didn't offend anyone. Did not mean to say that you "borrow" anything. Sorry....

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Tony K

Don't care what anyone says, this is a cool build, keep the photos and updates coming.
I'd love to do this, we'd all do something slightly different, personally, I'd want a 6 speed in the car but, this is still gonna be fun to drive.

BTW:
Ryan, I believe you made an slight error in precisely who delivered the car to you.

Ron

Ryan LOOKS GOOD. Keep it up.

Ron glad to see business is still good for you.

quote Originally posted by 85duke: Ron glad to see business is still good for you.

Well now, I never said that but, I enjoy the travel.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled Monster Thread.

Ron

I didn't mean to start trash X but despite the looks of the custom welds I think a powder coated s3 lower would look badass and PROBABLY flow better, though it's true I do not know for sure. I see your purpose with that new intake you mentioned but that's more reason to not custom weld a whole new piece.

I like fabricating custom pieces, and I prototyped this manifold for Thomas so I could see how it reacts on the dyno with it. His setup is almost identical to mine, except for the .5 in compression ratio, and the stage 2 zzp cam vs my custom regrind erson old school cam. I will do some testing on a L26 intake when I get my new setup put together. See how it performs vs my homebuilt intake, then I will be designing a custom sheetmetal intake/intercooler in one. Thomas will get one of the first production pieces if he wants it.

BTW, I am not charging him a bunch of money for this. I told him up front that since I was going to be prototyping some products on his car I would give him a major price break. I am also using his car to jig AC lines, now that I finally have a tig welder and a tubing bender, I can make them from scratch. I just have so much stuff on my plate right now Its hard to get everything going that I have planned for my business.

Ryan,

Looks good so far, don't worry about what DarkHorizon says, it looks great. Keep the pics coming!

Like Ryan said, I want a semi-built up car that will go fast, be reliable, and still be reasonably cheap. I'm getting a good price with the prototypes and hopefully a great warranty j/k.

UPDATE: Here is the next round of pics! Starting to look like somethin fun now!!!








More pics coming later today!

Been following this build, Ryan does great work and from what I've seen/heard, really performs. This should be one fun car to drive. Keep up the great work and please post more pics.

Ron

Yet Another update!





Next week you will see ALOT of changes!!!!!