DISCLAIMER: The following post(s) are not a product recommendation. This is a testing and review thread of a product available to the aftermarket community by product vendor Top Line Group, sold by Oslo, here on the forum. These are 8000k bulbs. A little bit on the blue side.

These are not DOT approved for street use, no matter what lamp housing you install them in.
Installing an HID bulb in a non-HID housing can result in unsafe lighting for both the driver of the vehicle, and other vehicles on the road.

I will be reviewing and testing the HID kit over a period of a few weeks, and will be posting updates in this thread.

On with the review..

Today, I received the TLG Black Box HID kit with two H9 base bulbs. I am running the Hella 90MM DOT Approved Halogen low-beam projector housings on my Fiero.

My first impressions of the kit when I received it was "Nice quality". It came packaged in a clamshell "aluminum" case. I opened the latches, and flipped the box open.

Inside, I found two plug and play ballast modules, two H9 base HID lamp assemblies with a pig tail harness on each, approximately eight inches long, and the harness to ballast adapter for your stock wiring to ballast.
I do not have any photos of the unboxing or base installation, as I was too pumped to take pictures. You understand.

I removed the H9 65 watt Halogen bulb from the low beam projector housing, and installed the HID bulb. It installed just like a standard halogen bulb, simply inserting the bulb, and twisting until it locked into place.

I have not mounted the ballasts permanently yet, but they are currently clamped in place, and do not move around.

The ballasts are solid, weighing in at about 1-2 lbs a piece. They feel hefty, which gives a sense of quality. Time will tell.
Installation was a breeze. Simply plugging the HID bulb connections into the high voltage wiring harness from the ballast, and then connecting the harness adapter from the ballast to the original low beam light plug meant that the installation took less than 10 minutes per side. This would move to 15 minutes or so when attaching the ballast permanently to the vehicle structure.

Again, these bulbs are installed in Hella DOT approved halogen 90MM headlamps. The DOT approval is void if any other light other than a halogen 65 watt bulb is installed.

Turning the headlamps on while looking under the hood resulted in a quick flash as the arc ignited in each bulb, and the motors came up. The lighting was bright, and very crisp, even in broad daylight.

After dark, I took the car out to find out what the lights looked like.
I am very meticulous with my headlight aiming, making sure everything is spot on height-wise. Side to side adjustment on my install needs a small amount of tweaking since I have recently made some changes to my mounting brackets on the car.

Lighting across the highway was even and bright. When running behind another vehicle, there was a very clear delineation between the light pattern below, and the lack of light above the cutoff line. The pattern was broad from side to side, with the majority of the light focused out in front of the vehicle. There were no noticeable hot spots in the pattern, and none of the other vehicles on the road batted an eye because of the lights.
I contribute the last part to the fact that I am very anal retentive about keeping the lights adjusted for safety and road courtesy.

The side to side adjustment of the lights resulted in a minor blotch in the light pattern when facing a wall from approximately 25-30 feet away.
The left (driver's) headlamp is aimed a bit left, and the passenger side is aimed a bit right. This results in two distinct "lifts" in the pattern rather than a single unified pattern where the two converge. Adjusting the lights should resolve this.
See image below. The second image is the stock halogen pattern, taken with a true camera. Notice the focused hot spots from the halogen bulbs? The aim between the two images has NOT been adjusted. Only the bulbs have been changed.



Note: The above image does not show the true side to side scope of the light pattern. The camera is a cell phone camera, and does not capture the full pattern.
The right side is a bit soft due to a modification I made to the existing shield on that side to help enhance the halogen pattern.

The next image shows a wall view of the beam path. Notice how the beam pattern is smooth and level all the way down? The car is on a slight uphill, as you can tell by the base of the wall. The light pattern is almost completely level though. This is the proper aiming for a vehicle with a cutoff shield in the light.
There is some minor hot spotting to the pattern, this is caused by the projection lens having concentric rings in it to help diffuse the light.


The final photo I have to show is outside my house. Again, the camera did not capture the amount of light and the pattern.
But, look closely on the right side, and you will see all of the cars down the road have their reflectors lit up, without any glare coming from lighting reflections on the paint. The pattern was very bright and even all the way down the road.



I would prefer the more natural light lamps, around the 4300k-5500k range for driving, as it is more visible to me. I will try to get my hands on a set of those for testing.
I will also be making new cutoff shields to help improve the light pattern and focus on the cutoff line.
Again: I am not condoning non-DOT approved headlights for your low profile Hella lamps. I am simply testing and reviewing a product. Stay tuned for more.

Just for the record, I really like the pattern, and the way they look. I have better visibility than I did with the Halogen lights.
I think the product itself is great. Long term testing will give a better idea of how they work.

That was a very informative and unbiased report and I wish there was more like this on the forum instead of hearsay without actually testing the product.A + for you.

Day (night) 2... Running long distance tonight with the HIDs, I realized how much better I could see the road. All of the signs on the right side of the highway were well lit for quite a ways, but whenever a vehicle was directly in front of me, the sharp cutoff was well delineated. The lift to the right was up just enough to light the signs, but again, below the line of sight directly in front.

Interesting stuff Synthesis, but how do you have it wired up? I know i have been looking for some whiter H9's like the silver star ultra series but i haven't found any yet. I don't have too much of an issue with side lighting on signs and such but there is less light to the left and right i am still working on getting the housings adjusted so far its working well but we have some seriously dark and twisty roads out here and i like to see where I'm going before i get to the oh S**t stage of reacting.

quote Originally posted by Macs86GT: Interesting stuff Synthesis, but how do you have it wired up? I know i have been looking for some whiter H9's like the silver star ultra series but i haven't found any yet. I don't have too much of an issue with side lighting on signs and such but there is less light to the left and right i am still working on getting the housings adjusted so far its working well but we have some seriously dark and twisty roads out here and i like to see where I'm going before i get to the oh S**t stage of reacting.

The HID ballasts have a plug on them and a pig tail adapter that plugs into it. That adapter includes two pins, clearly marked for positive and negative that insert into your H9 connector on the light harness.

The lamp side of the ballast is hard connected, and ends in two single pin connections, a male and a female. The lamp has the mating connectors, so the lamp can only plug in in one direction.

It was a very simple install. Mounting the ballasts will be the hardest part of the install, and even that is a breeze.

Can you post some pics of what the car looks like with the lights on? (from outside the car, camera facing the front of the car)

Great review Thank You.

I'm currently running the Hella 200m Rectangular H4 Headlamp Replacement with a 100/80w Bulb which does light up the road fairly well.

Looking at the Kit, it looks like it will replace these directly but you already had the 90mm lights installed.

I also like the whiter light in the 4300k-5500k range and not the blue tint, but are you getting used to it?

[This message has been edited by mike-ohio (edited 11-19-2009).]

quote Originally posted by mike-ohio: Great review Thank You. I'm currently running the Hella 200m Rectangular H4 Headlamp Replacement with a 100/80w Bulb which does light up the road fairly well. Looking at the Kit, it looks like it will replace these directly but you already had the 90mm lights installed. I also like the whiter light in the 4300k-5500k range and not the blue tint, but are you getting used to it?

Rumor, yes, I can get those photos.. It may be a bit before I do though.

Mike, the H9 HID bulbs are specifically designed to fit the H9 socket.
I believe your Hella lamps are the HB2 socket. The other issue is, your Hella lamps are not designed with a light cutoff shield. Installing HIDs in your housings would result in an extreme amount of glare, as the light is not focused in a smooth even pattern with the cutoff to prevent shining in oncoming driver's eyes.

You can get HB2 style HID bulbs, but in your particular case with your lights, I would recommend going with a bi-xenon lamp with a shutter.
The shutter is a cutoff shield that literally moves out of the way when you turn the high beam on, and back up when you turn the high beam off.

An HID bulb is nearly identical to the sodium arc lamps used in street lights and large warehouses.. They require a warmup period, and shutting an HID off and then turning it back on before the bulb has cooled will damage a bulb, possibly the ballast, and runs the risk of the bulb exploding.

Xenon light is based on the gas discharge principle , where an arc of light is created between two electrodes in a glass tube filled with metal salts and inert gases.(This is not to be confused with many manufacturers who call their halogen lamps Xenon).

Turning a bulb back on can ignite the still gaseous salts, thus causing a miniature explosion that CAN cause the lamp to explode in the housing.

This is why on a dual filament setup, like what you have, you would actually run a single bulb with a shutter and a projection lens. You would get the cutoff required for the light pattern to prevent unsafe driving conditions, while at the same time your high beams would trigger the shutter to open, thus allowing all of the light to escape without blockage.

The other issue you will run into is this... The reflector housing has a focal point. Where the bulb body and the filament or light arc sit is very important to good light broadcast. HID bulbs tend to be longer, and the arc capsule inside can sit further in. Thus moving the main arc source out of the focal point of the reflector. This can cause glare as well as uneven lighting patterns, and even an improper beam which can impair your vision.

As for whether I am used to the blue... It is definitely different. I think I would like to try a warmer bulb, instead of these. The blue is nice, but it messes with my vision a little bit.

[This message has been edited by Synthesis (edited 11-19-2009).]

The 8,000K color bulb that Synthesis is using is more blue colored then allowed by OEM regulation, as I understand it to be limited to 6,000K color for production headlamp systems.

8,000K is the most popular color for aftermarket HID lighting due to its color and increased light output versus standard halogen bulbs. 6,000K would be my next most suggested color for sale, but other colors are available.

Something that makes our HID kits different, and better then many other kits out there is that I have access to Philips trademarked bulbs and certain ballasts that have a defective rate of 0.04%! The kit that Synthesis is using is considered a "basic kit" using generic bulbs and the standard high quality slim ballasts - which are very good, and better then most basic kits available online.

If the demand is great enough 5,000K bulbs in the Philips model could be made available - but most people can't tell the difference between 5,000K and 6,000K.

Thanks for the review Chris!

Night #3... Daddy like!

I WILL have to tweak the shields in order to adjust the light pattern a tiny bit. The cutoff, while well defined is not true HID sharp...

Would I recommend these lamps for the Hella 90MM lamps? Legally, I can't say yes... But, since many of you drive your Fieros "Off Road", these would be perfect.

Do the headlight covers sit flush with the hood when turned off?

^

Yes... They do sit flush. Its the same bracket he's used with that setup for a while. Exact same bracket design as yellowstones... Look up his thread about shipping it back. The daylight shots show his lights off.

All synth has done here is change the bulbs out for Xenon lamps.

quote Originally posted by skuzzbomer: Yes... They do sit flush. Its the same bracket he's used with that setup for a while. Exact same bracket design as yellowstones... Look up his thread about shipping it back. The daylight shots show his lights off. All synth has done here is change the bulbs out for Xenon lamps.

I was asking because the length of the xenon casing where the wires come out is a bit longer than the halogen.

After a weekend of running, especially long distance with the HIDs, I have to officially say I like them... But because they aren't DOT legal, I have to say the following...

I offroad a lot in my Fiero, and would HIGHLY recommend these lights for offroading....


On with the review.. The lights were crisp and clear, with an even light pattern along the road as I drove back from Frazee yesterday. Stu and John from TX and FL respectively were behind me the whole way. During a conversation, they told me they could see all of the road signs on the right were well lit, but there was no glare...

I like them... They are a good product.

The bulbs only add about half an inch of depth out of the back of the bulb. The clearance is good on this set.

Ok...

I really do like them, I just need warmer bulbs...

Bump.

Excellent write up, very non-biased and factual, can hardly tell you got a discount (I keed! )

Now to save up some pennies...

quote Originally posted by Synthesis: Ok... I really do like them, I just need warmer bulbs... Bump.

Did you ever try a different color temp?

I remember this writeup. Great job Synthesis. I installed my TLG HIDs recently, but due to a broken adjustment screw, I have not been able to adjust them properly. I am going to use this thread as a guide to adjusting them properly. Tomorrow I am hopeing to get a chance to play out in the garage.

------------------

Synthesis, I have a question.... Not sure if you know my car but I think I like the 3000k color... Goes well with my maroon and gold rims. Do you know if these are street legal for driving lights. California..... or are they just made for fog?

I have the low pro 90mm hella conversion now so no problem there... although I love the lights now, I'm thinking of running a stereo system within the next couple months. Not much. Just installing 2 amps but I can save the juice by adding these HID's for the night time sense it's 35W per instead of 65.... I found fog/turn signals too that I want to add...

My question is if I bought the 3000k but later wanted the 6000k. Is it a change of the bulb or is it the ballast? Do they have ballasts that operate both outputs? Thanks for the reply. Where did you get you plug in play? Very interested

Oh... How are yours holding up now?

Changing the temp of your lights would be changing the bulbs and not the ballast unboundmo

cool..... What do you think about the 3000k with my scheme... The yellow too ricerish.... I think I like the idea.... Is it a crime? I still want those fog/led turns too...

quote Originally posted by unboundmo: cool..... What do you think about the 3000k with my scheme... The yellow too ricerish.... I think I like the idea.... Is it a crime? I still want those fog/led turns too...

Unboundmo: First of all - that is a cool Fiero picture!! Is that what yours will look like, or is it what you have now?

You can get the plug and play HID kit here:
http://www.tlg-auto.com/sho...id=45&category_id=20

Simply select the bulb style and the color you want (3,000K)
Also, because you are a PFF member I can work with you on switching out the lights later on if you don't actually like the 3000K bulbs. As long as you can get them back to me in a short time and they are still in good condition I can trade with you. Of course I can't sell your old bulbs as new, but people are always looking for a good deal on lightly used parts, right?

Send me a PM if you want some more detailed info.

Also, I don't think the 3,000K color (Yellow) would look ricey at all. IMHO, the only ricey colors are 10k and above!

unboundmo, you're running the hella lights right? I kind of like it when cars run HID fogs in 3000K and then headlights in 8000K its a nice blue and yellow combo... but 3000K for your headlights would look awesome with your gold wheels

Here's what I have now... I plan to do the chin but I don't have it right now. It'll be the "no notch chin" from the fierowarehouse I think. Thanks for all the networking though... All the merry!

I got down into the brackets and attempted to make them myself... Sorry for mentioning.. No disrespect to others... I like the challenge..... Anyway..







fresh out of the cave after the engine swap... no trunk lid though

[This message has been edited by unboundmo (edited 02-10-2010).]

Your car sends shivers down my spine. Just one well put together car you have there Unboundmo.

Thanks!!

Very cool! It's awesome to see such a tastefully modified car!

I missed the bumps on this...

No, I have not had a chance to try the warmer bulbs yet, as replacing an engine among other things has interfered.

Oslo has warmer bulbs for me to try, and I am looking forward to putting them in.

I still like the headlights, and will be doing some more shield tweaks as the time passes in order to find the optimal shield design for the HIDs in the Halogen housings.

unboundmo, the 3000k will be a distinctive gold color which would look good. I am unsure what the light reflections would look like for you, and how well visibility would be.

You change just the lamp, the ballast doesn't care what color you run, as the salts inside the lamp are what determine the color. The ballast simply provides the startup current, and then drops to the "maintenance" current that just maintains the arc.

I had an issue the other night when someone pulled in front of me and cut me off.
I flashed my high beams at him, and when I went back to low, my headlights went out. Shut the lights off for half a sec, and then back on, and everything came back up peachy. I have not been able to duplicate it, and suspect I may have a relay with a bad diode in it that disconnected and refused to turn back on.

I do not believe it is related to the HID kit.

If anyone here has seen my high beams, you know they flood the road for a good mile.. I am sure he crapped himself when I hit the highs right behind him.

Thanks for the reply.. I find all different brands of conversion kits... ranging from 57.99 all the way to 119.00.. Is there any direction to go in or is it you get what you pay for?

What brands have others bought and how are they holding up?

quote Originally posted by Synthesis: I had an issue the other night when ... I flashed my high beams ... and when I went back to low, my headlights went out.

Previously posted in this thread:







Obviously, your ballasts would be connected in place of the low-beam filaments in the schematics. Either way ... problem solved.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 02-10-2010).]

I am running a tier 3 harness I created (the initial prototype that I am trying my damndest to catch up on orders with)... It uses a diode to connect the high to the lows and trigger the relays in the harness when high beams are on. It has been working fine for almost a year now with absolutely no issues.

Suspect the headlight switch, or a bad relay.

But thank you for the input. Already a step ahead of you.

[This message has been edited by Synthesis (edited 02-10-2010).]

Chris, you need to replace the dimmer switch on the steering column. My 86 started doing the exact same thing back last fall. It would do it once or twice intermittently, and then not do it again for a month or better. Finally in early Jan. the dimmer gave out and started doing it every time I went back to low beams. After replacing the switch (about $20.00 at NAPA for Echlin part), I have had no problem since. I'm sure you know already, but the switch is on the column @ about 10:30 position just below the cutoff of the dash.

quote Originally posted by Synthesis: I am [using] a diode to connect the high to the lows and trigger the relays in the harness when high beams are on. It has been working fine for almost a year now with absolutely no issues.

If the dimmer switch is break-before-make, there will be a brief period when neither high nor low beam circuits are energized. It's not usually visible with incandescent or halogen headlights, but that transient blip could be enough to cause your ballasts to drop off-line. That's why I don't like the diode solution for HID installations.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 02-12-2010).]

bump:

Forgive the shaky cam, it is cold outside.

The first shot is at an angle, and shows the light pattern. On the stock light cutoffs, there is no lift in the pattern on the left side. I modified my shields a tiny bit, and I am still tweaking, so I DO have a lift on the left side. Normally, this would be perfectly flat. Also, note that Hella intentionally moves the cutoff shield out of the focus of the projection lens to help soften the pattern for halogen lamps. I will be tweaking the focus on this to sharpen the pattern a little bit.
Yes, I am at an angle, because I wanted to get the full pattern, at a stretch.


This one shows the lift of the pattern in the center and to the right. This allows the right side of the road to be well lit at night. Yes, the pattern tapers a bit, again due to my shield mods. I will be remedying this very shortly. There is a small amount of taper from Hella in the light pattern. This is caused by the cutoff being out of focus.


Square on to the wall. You can see the pattern on the left. Again, not a sharp delineation because of the focus of the lens and shield.


Vanity shot..


The light from the 6000k lamps is almost pure white..



Another front angle..


One more vanity shot.


Blurry shots... Low beam HID lows only.


High beam, Halogen + HID Lows

That high+low shot is unbelievable... Seriously, the light output on those things is ludicrous.

Yup. Note the tree and the brick building in the distance, just above dead center in the photo? Compare those two from shot to shot...
Also, the hardware store on the left side, compare those two...

When I light my high beams up on a straight stretch, I can see literally as far as the road is long (at least the signs and reflectors once you get past about 1000 feet).

I came over a hill the night I first installed all of my Halogen lamps last summer, and had the highs on... Straight stretch 1.2 miles long... And it was well lit all the way down.