I was trying to think of a way to improve the look of my headlights with something unique and cool. What if the headlight doors were hinged at the front, and dropped down a couple inches, revealing headlights inside the hood...

Here's a photoshop.
Doors up:
Doors down:

The hard part is figuring out how to power it up and down. I have a rough idea:


I need to find headlights that are short enough (and cheap) to fit. any ideas or help on the design would be appreciated

Could use the headlights from a Camaro like the Kris Munson style use.

Like this:


You'd just have to set them back a little to clear the light lid when it comes down. Find a way to mod the headlight motor to pull the door down and push it up.

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 12-08-2009).]

Makes me think of this:


I think it's a neat idea if you've got enough space to pull it off!

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1990 Sunbird SE /// 1995 Beretta Base

You all need to stop giving me ideas.

Wow, that would be awsome!!

Totaly do-able!!

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--FallenShadow

sounds like it would be neat!!

Can we upgrade him from a jr member yet.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...060206-2-067006.html

quote Originally posted by Australian: Can we upgrade him from a jr member yet.

He's only made 8 posts... its up to him to grow up...

quote Originally posted by carbon: He's only made 8 posts... its up to him to grow up...

Yeah, I was thinking it was based off of post count. I think one board I was on, once you had 150 posts it made you Member. Of course you could PM the moderator and he would give you a custom title if he was inclined.

Back on topic.

I don't see why the original light motors couldn't be used for this, atleast the ones like in my 84. You'd have to have something that limited upper and lower movement of the headlight door, so it would create the pressure internally to stop the motor rotation. Down would be easy, you'd just need something extended out at the bottom of the lights so the headlight door would hit it. Up, is where the difficulty would arise. It would probably take some trial and error with a stop until you got it lined up so it raised to flush.

The only problem I see with the idea drawing, is that the assembly would have to be mounted to the hood the way it's drawn. I think it might be easier to affix the headlight door to a support structure that wasn't attached to the hood.

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 12-08-2009).]

It has been done before, but all I have is this picture, no information on it. I was going to pursue doing it until I heard how bad the light spread is with the headlights buried in the nose like that. But it does look cool!

It makes me think of the original 66 Toronado. Those headlights popped up but the suggestion is there. The next year, in 67, they made the headlight doors flush. Most agree that that was a mistake. Here is the front of Jay's 66:

66 was his favorite year too.

quote Originally posted by snowblindburd: Makes me think of this: I think it's a neat idea if you've got enough space to pull it off!

Wow, is that a Superbird from a new charger? That's sweet!!

quote Originally posted by sspeedstreet: It has been done before, but all I have is this picture, no information on it. I was going to pursue doing it until I heard how bad the light spread is with the headlights buried in the nose like that. But it does look cool!

I believe that pic is just the cover laying in there for a visual. never got the motor and gears figured out.

Regardless, I think it's a cool idea. Original thinking.
Wait, I thought it was Ford that had a better idea.

Ron

I figure that if I use 2 rectangular headlights, they would have to be about 2x5 inches, and it probably does make sense to mount them to the original light mounting points (not on the hood). Which generation camaro are those lights from?

revised plan:

lights mounted to original mounting points, bottom stop attached to headlight door with springs to hold door down. the pieces where the springs are attached would double as top stops.
need to design something to push the door up from the bottom.

How would the original motors work with the hinge in the front? how else could a motor be rigged to push the doors up?
In regard to the poor light pattern, some people with the Munson lights put a driving/signal combination light in the signal light hole to light up the first 10-15 feet.

quote Originally posted by wmorse: I figure that if I use 2 rectangular headlights, they would have to be about 2x5 inches, and it probably does make sense to mount them to the original light mounting points (not on the hood). Which generation camaro are those lights from?

93 Camaros for sure, up until possibly the 97's. I'm not sure what year they changed to the flush headlights, but I'm positive the 98's had flush.

quote How would the original motors work with the hinge in the front? how else could a motor be rigged to push the doors up?

The original motors work from pressure exerted on the threaded shaft inside. When the actuating arm geared to the motor reaches it's limit (either mechanical, or a stop placed somewhere to interupt travel) it binds the screw shaft inside either up or down in motion. This causes a arm attached to the screw shaft to toggle internal contacts disrupting the circuit until voltage is applied for the reverse direction.

In other words, if you used a mechinism connected to the motor, probably a set of levers, you could use it to both pull the door down, and push it back up.

I actually like this idea alot. I had considered just using a lower profile light with a stock type operation like the Hella 90mm rounds, but this idea has merit also.

There's more then one way to skin a cat, and this is just the way i would approach it. Others may have a completely different approach.

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 12-08-2009).]

While the idea is unique, the issue you will run into is the lack of light pattern. You will actually make it very unsafe to drive your car at night, as you won't be able to see anything on the road in front. All of the light shining off of the painted surface will cause a glare issue for oncoming drivers.

Adding brighter lights won't do any good either, as all you will be doing is broadcasting more light everywhere except where you need it. On the road.

The other issue with this is that technically, this is not Federal DOT legal. The DOT requires that light be broadcast in a certain beam pattern, with a certain amount of lumens per test point in the beam.

With recessed/flush mounted lights on a Fiero, you do not get the correct beam pattern, and during an inspection with an uptight agent of the law, you can fail the test.

Now, I have actually considered a two piece style that rocks the front section down, and lifts the back section up, as in a split door. Would provide the light lift needed to get the DOT legal beam pattern, while still maintaining the "look".

Khw: I just went outside to look at the existing motor mechanism, and I see what you mean. Those motors could work nicely.

Synthesis: I'm not too worried about it being 100% legal, I don't think there will ever be a cause for my car to be inspected. I certainly want to be able to see well, and don't want to blind other divers though. Have you had experience with the flush-mount type lights?

quote Originally posted by wmorse: Khw: I just went outside to look at the existing motor mechanism, and I see what you mean. Those motors could work nicely. Synthesis: I'm not too worried about it being 100% legal, I don't think there will ever be a cause for my car to be inspected. I certainly want to be able to see well, and don't want to blind other divers though. Have you had experience with the flush-mount type lights?

I have been in a Fiero with the flushmounts, and many others here will tell you the same thing, that visibility is reduced because the light is not covering the road as it should.

Not to toot my own horn, but I would consider myself, as well as one or two others here as "experts" when it comes to headlights and light patterns on the road for best safety and visibility. Take that as you will.

I like the way flush mounts look, but do not feel that they are safe for every day use, and night driving. Show is one thing, driver use is something else.
Legality is an issue many do not worry about. And it CAN bite you in the backside, even if you are in a state that does not require inspection.

Just trying to give you a view of the opposite side of the coin here.

The headlights on the stock '93-'97 Camaros are in a very similar position to how they would be mounted in the Fiero. There is a basically flat, vertical section extending out in front of the lights, with close walls on either side. The biggest difference is that they are lower on the Camaro, but that is where the driving/signal lights would help.


If this position is factory on the Camaro, and since it wouldn't be much different on the Fiero, It seems like it should work alright.

quote Originally posted by wmorse: The headlights on the stock '93-'97 Camaros are in a very similar position to how they would be mounted in the Fiero. There is a basically flat, vertical section extending out in front of the lights, with close walls on either side. The biggest difference is that they are lower on the Camaro, but that is where the driving/signal lights would help. If this position is factory on the Camaro, and since it wouldn't be much different on the Fiero, It seems like it should work alright.

What you are missing is the fact that the Camaro has a much larger and wider area for the light to broadcast from, from larger lights than you could do with a popdown or recessed design.

Sure, the Camaro lights are in use on the recessed lighting kits on some Fieros, but again, you have full side blockage for the light pattern, a shorter opening to shine out of, a much further distance to shine out over the front of the car...

I am not telling you not to do it.. I am simply saying don't make any changes that you can't return to normal from until you know 100% that you are satisfied.

Cool Custom Cars did this mod on their FC 355 conversions (from their site):



I tried contacting them to get more info when I started my HL mod, but never heard back from them.

Bob

I came up with an idea for the motor. My dad used to have a 69 riviera with pop-up headlights, which were controlled via a pneumatic cylinder, which happens to be sitting in our garage. There is an intake and an outlet on the cylinder, and apparently there was a hose going from the engine intake with a butterfly valve controlling which direction the air was pushing the cylinder.
It might be difficult to use the engine intake pressure to control the headlights. But, I have a small air compressor from some air shocks in my basement that could control air pistons driving the headlights.

Also, if I found headlights that were shorter than the Camaro's and mounted them higher, I think the light pattern would improve.
Actually, kind of like this one

quote Originally posted by wmorse: I came up with an idea for the motor. My dad used to have a 69 riviera with pop-up headlights, which were controlled via a pneumatic cylinder, which happens to be sitting in our garage. There is an intake and an outlet on the cylinder, and apparently there was a hose going from the engine intake with a butterfly valve controlling which direction the air was pushing the cylinder. It might be difficult to use the engine intake pressure to control the headlights. But, I have a small air compressor from some air shocks in my basement that could control air pistons driving the headlights. Also, if I found headlights that were shorter than the Camaro's and mounted them higher, I think the light pattern would improve. Actually, kind of like this one

But it does not improve. You have a LOT more hood/surface area to shine out over than the Camaro. Trying to compare the front ends on the two is like comparing apples to oranges.

They are not the same.
Notice the Camaro also has it's headlight recesses painted a flat black? This is to prevent glare from shining into oncoming driver's eyes.

Might look into the Geo Storm headlights. Similar to the Camaro on the earlier models, but I think they were taller. The storm had a flap that pushed up a little when the lights came on.



I wouldn't mind picking up one of those someday.

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 12-08-2009).]

try thinking about using a electric door lock actuator. up , down and no gears to strip out.
A rod would have to be used to control the door movement.
unlock position = headlites up
lock= HD down
hinge in the front.

Now that can be done!

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88 GT, 3800SC, Getrag 5sp. 12" Vette Rotors,Custom stuff done

quote Originally posted by revin: try thinking about using a electric door lock actuator. up , down and no gears to strip out. A rod would have to be used to control the door movement. unlock position = headlites up lock= HD down hinge in the front. Now that can be done!

Don't those work on a pulse type motion? Meaning when you apply voltage they pulse in or out (depending on which way you energize the coil) but then return to nuetral? If so, you would need to keep constant voltage on it to keep them pushed up or pulled down. That is unless you use maybe a magnet or something to latch the cover in place in each position. Also, I don't think those have much length of travel. I bought some and I think they only had about a inch of travel. You'd still need some type of leveer mechanism to increase range of motion if you couldn't find one with enough travel.

That does bring up the possibility of a small linear actuator though. One of those could work much like you describe the door solenoid working. Difference is they are gear driven rods, basically a electric version of a hydraulic cylinder. They could be extended and retracted to anywhere in there motion range and when voltage is dropped they would lay at rest in that position until voltage was applied again. Only problem is they are kind of slow, and you would need to set up something that would cut off voltage at the limits of operation you seek. Linear actuators like that are kinda pricey though.

What of you used a combination of projector headlights and lower driving lights? You'd have to paint the car flat black but I think it could be done.

Not to jump on the band wagon, but I had been thinking about this for over year now. Apparently I was not the first as I have seen posts as far back as 2002. I think it is a cool idea and I am surprised that there are not more cars modified like this. My reasoning was to reduce air drag on the nose of the car while keeping it factory looking. I intend to modify a spare hood I have over the winter shutdown (my plant shuts down between Christmas and New Years). I have a few ideas to use the stock motor (87) but I need to experiment before posting (ie. putting my foot in my mouth). Again, for me it is a spare hood. I intend to mount the lights to the hood if possible to facilitate other projects in the nose area.

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Paul

My IMSA Build: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/789315
HHP Adjustable Sway Bars: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/036556.html

quote R Runner I just thought about this too....... Corvette C6 head lamps are projectors and they have body colored head lamps. I am sure that they considered the reflection from the paint.

That's exactly what I was thinking... It seems like it would work well enough.

just think...where does it reflect to?? up in the sky? to the inside of the lexan lens? not on the road I bet...


It would be sorta easy if you start with the "Tom's headlights" just make the rear pop up above the hood a bit.
I guess I am going the wrong way on this.... I'll shut up now.

It's times like this that I wish I still worked in a machine shop. I've got an idea of how to do this using 1 headlight motor. I just don't have the mill, bandsaw, lathe, drill press, metal stock or brass bushing/hardware to do it . I do have the welder...

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 12-09-2009).]

Jaguar XJ-220 would be another source of inspiration.

quote Originally posted by skuzzbomer: [QUOTE] R Runner I just thought about this too....... Corvette C6 head lamps are projectors and they have body colored head lamps. I am sure that they considered the reflection from the paint.

That's exactly what I was thinking... It seems like it would work well enough.[/QUOTE]

Actually the whole problem can be avoided by dropping the door far enough that it is not visible directly ahead of the car. If it drops past horizontal the problem should be fixed. Again, I plan on giving this my full attention in about 2 weeks.

This looks like a cool mod and I may have to look into doing it myself with some driving lights in the turn signal pockets.