I hope. I just dropped the cradle(with help from my son mattwa) on my gold 86GT which I bought a few months back from PaulV in Chicago. It has the four speed muncie and I have bought a 5 speed Isuzu from a forum member. Also, during my trip to Carlisle, the water pump started to go so I decided to drop it to do several things at one time. Besides the tranny and waterpump, I'm going to replace timing chain, tie rods and ball joints, new poly all around, POR-15 the cradle and control arms, new plugs and wires, new egr soleniod,
See obligatory pic:

UPDATED 8/8/10
See traditional pic of me in engine compartment per request of PK.

Have decided to go with the 3.4 like mattwa did. Anyone have one for sale?

[This message has been edited by Ridgelandbaseball (edited 08-08-2010).]

Geese you ohio'ns work fast. Bearley a week since carlise and your already rippin your GT appart . Mske sure you get the you standing in the engine bay photo.

i have a bracket from a 4 speed from a 86 SE if that would work for you

quote Originally posted by Ridgelandbaseball: Also, thinking about getting some better headers that a member is selling right now.

what member are you refering to?

I did most of the work, he just wanted a picture with his engine I ripped out. Can you believe I'm 18 years old, and I have taken two cradles out already? Soon to be three.

quote Originally posted by pontiackid86: Geese you ohio'ns work fast. Bearley a week since carlise and your already rippin your GT appart . Mske sure you get the you standing in the engine bay photo.

That 4-speed is going into my car, which is why I'm helping out here.

quote Originally posted by 86GTBen: i have a bracket from a 4 speed from a 86 SE if that would work for you

Nope, sorry, we need a 5-speed Isuzu cable bracket.

Re bracket - Fierostore maybe

------------------
Dave

www.ltlfrari.com

Moving from the 4 speed to the 5 speed Isuzu is a project and a half on the 2.8.

You need the Isuzu shift cables, a 5 speed shifter, and some fabrication skills.

The clutch arm will need to be shortened. The physical distance between the pivot point and the plastic bushing remains the same, but the top of the arm has to be cut down and re-welded. Normally, when looking at the arm from the plastic socket, you would cut the side with the bends off flush with the top of the plastic bushing. Then, the long flat side will be "grooved" on the outside, even with the top of the bushing, and then folded over and welded to the other side. This will maintain the strength at the top of the arm, and shorten it enough to clear the Y-Pipe.

The shift cables come out over the top of the throttle body and intake hose.. You WILL have throttle clearance issues. I have not found a better way to route these cables. The foam wrap on one of the cables will cause your throttle to stick under heavy acceleration. You need to remove the foam and/or build a guard that can be bolted over the top of the throttle assembly.

The air intake tube will need to be slightly twisted and deformed to make room for the cable routing.

Sadly, the cables have to come over the top, which on the 4 cylinder isn't an issue, but the V6 intake and throttle sit there.

Good luck with your swap. I can get photos of mine if you need em. I love the Isuzu for mileage, but have heard that second gear is pretty weak.. Although, you'll grin ear to ear with third gear at about 1800RPM+.

I've done this swap before. Found it easier to modify the Y-pipe than to go cutting on the tranny. However, the cables over the tb still remains an issue. I made a braket the bolted to the corner of the intake to hold the cables up above the butterfly.

quote Originally posted by fieroguy123: I've done this swap before. Found it easier to modify the Y-pipe than to go cutting on the tranny. However, the cables over the tb still remains an issue. I made a braket the bolted to the corner of the intake to hold the cables up above the butterfly.

You don't actually modify the transmission. You only modify the top of the clutch arm.

would this work?
http://www.fierostore.com/P...px?s=60978&d=103&p=1

quote Originally posted by Fiero88GT: would this work? http://www.fierostore.com/P...px?s=60978&d=103&p=1

Sadly, no.
The Isuzu 5 speed uses a bracket that holds both cables in an "over the top" cable position.

The slave cylinder bolts to a steel bracket, which is in turn bolted onto the transmission behind the shift cable bracket.

quote Originally posted by fieroguy123: I've done this swap before. Found it easier to modify the Y-pipe than to go cutting on the tranny. However, the cables over the tb still remains an issue. I made a braket the bolted to the corner of the intake to hold the cables up above the butterfly.

Could you send me a pic of this bracket?

Unless you are going on the freeway allot, I would stick with the 3.65 Muncie. It is stronger and quicker on the 1/8th and 1/4 mile.

I like my 4 speed allot. But to each his own and you seem to have your ducks in a row on this one.

Arn

Posted in the wrong thread.. WHOOPPS!

[This message has been edited by grkboy707 (edited 07-06-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: Unless you are going on the freeway allot, I would stick with the 3.65 Muncie. It is stronger and quicker on the 1/8th and 1/4 mile. I like my 4 speed allot. But to each his own and you seem to have your ducks in a row on this one. Arn

My son tells me the same thing. That is why he is getting my muncie to replace his auto. To me even at 60 mph, the engine seems to be screaming so that's why I opted for it.

Update.

Well after spilling a whole bunch of tranny fluid on the garage floor, we now have the engine on a stand. The tranny (which is going to mattwa) is in the blue tub. Also, when we picked up the engine off the cradle about another gallon of antifreeze came out! The extra cradle there is from a member that brought a bunch of stuff up from WV for mattwa for his build. I may use it.
A couple questions for the members:
As you know the 4 speed muncie has the reverse light switch at the shifter and the 5 speed isuzu has it on the tranny. Should I run two wires from the shifter area back to the tranny to connect there?
What kind of clutch would be recommended keeping in mind I am in my 50's and am not going to beat on it. And should I have my flywheel re-surfaced?
In the engine bay there is cruddy insulation on the sides by the strut towers. Can I get rid of that?
Any other advise for this kind of swap would be welcome.

Sent PM.

I have an Izusu with my 2.8 (which I swapped in to replace the Duke). I could not get the shifter cables to clear the air intake boot, so I bought another flexible hose from Pull a Part ( I don't remember what car it came from). After making this, somebody posted a picture on PFF with the shifter cables routed over the stock 2.8 intake, so it is possble.

My Izusu is working fine. It was one of those NOS units that were selling last year for about $350. Second gear is weak, just ask foutpoint9 after he took out 2nd on a missed shift, although he does have an engine with a little more torque (Cad 4.9). I prefer driving my car with the Izusu to my son's with a 4 speed.
Jim

i was going to post these earlier but i didn't have time before going on my trip but here are some of the pics i took that day i was helping you with your engine

on the left is the 5 speed and below to the right is the 4 speed



matts car is next to mine which is the red one

[This message has been edited by fiero al (edited 07-13-2010).]

Today I moved all the parts to the driveway for de-greasing and cleaning. See pic.

Mattwa trying to talk me into another engine but my 2.8 was running great. OH WHAT TO DO!?
Also, do you reuse this part when putting ball joints in?

hows the cleaning process going?

We now I have all my loose parts and cradle treated with POR-15. In the below pic, you will see the parts and to the right is the Isuzu that I am going to put into my car and to the left is the Muncie 4 speed mattwa is going to use for his car.

Next pic shows both of our cars minus the cradles. Why we decided to disable both our cars, I will never know. Mattwa decided to drop his to get his manual tranny in ASAP.

Just wanted to show pic of headers I got from Maddanceskillz. Very nice.

See pic of engine with intake and valve covers off. Engine looks exceptionally clean for 100K miles! Feel guilty about replacing it with a 3.4. WHAT SHOULD I DO?

Next is a pic of plenum and valve covers being painted with Rustoleum Engine enamel.

And also test fitting the swaybar (from a junk Fiero) on the cradle. Does this get installed after cradle is re-intalled in car?

And yes I know this is probably the most boring build thread on the forum! lol

i'm woundering if the orignal owner [or the owner before you] had the engine tuned up and cleaned becuase those heads look really clean for being 100k miles. just look at mine. my engine has 94k miles on it and it has the brown coating on the valve lifters and all around the head. could be that becuase mine sat for some time which caused the oil to stain the head and lifters.


also im glad to see that you were able to get bottom intake off without taking out the push rods. i guess what i didn't get was that you only have to take out the push rods if you are going to change the gaskets. by the way did matt tell you that my engine is now connected to the trans and is now on the cradle? well hopfully we will have mine up and running by the end of this week and you will get your roller back to use on your engine or matts [which ever comes first].

[This message has been edited by fiero al (edited 08-16-2010).]

I think the oil was changed very often for the whole life of the car, which is why it looks so clean under the covers. Alex, your Fiero sat for maybe a few years, which let the oil stain the parts and the chain strech out, my dad's timing chain was fairly tight still (changed it anyway though). Now my 2.8, It sat for basically 16 years or so being driven every now and then, thus 49K miles. The chain was terrible and there was nothing un-stained, it was all nearly black. No wonder it was slow.

I say this because the water pump was the factory one, which that long trip finally killed it.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 08-17-2010).]

Why are you worried about your clean looking heads in terms of the 3.4l swap? You'll be re-using those, won't you?

And good choice on not reinstalling a 2.8l when we have the 3.4l available!

quote Originally posted by MadDanceSkillz: Why are you worried about your clean looking heads in terms of the 3.4l swap? You'll be re-using those, won't you? And good choice on not reinstalling a 2.8l when we have the 3.4l available!

The heads are the same on both engines though, right? I don't think my dad wants to take the heads off any engine he uses.

To answer the questions from up above.

Yes, I think it is quite alright to toss the side insulation. I did with mine. I do not recommend completely removing the insulation from the cab. It will be noisy and worse yet it will heat up the cabin a lot. Some people have found aftermarket stuff to retrofit if you decide to remove the front bits of insulation.

The flywheel should be aroun $30-40 to resurface so it's your call with how worn it looks, but I would if you are going through all the effort. If you are changing to the 3.4 don't bother because you will need a 88 flywheel that is neutral balanced.

Well I did it. I bought a 3.4 from a wrecked 95 firebird. Went up to Flint, MI today to get it. See pics of when we arrived home with it and Matt taking off all the things that I won't need on it. If you look at the pics you will see the guy I bought it from put it on a hood of a car so we could slide from his Suburban to my Dakota. He said it ran well before it was pulled so I hope I got a half way decent engine. We will see when I take the valve covers off and the pan.
Looking a the first pic you will see our newest Fiero mentioned in Matt's thread in the background.

Yeah I don't think the heads on that will look nearly as 'purdy' Seriously, I've never seen heads that clean on anything that has more than 1000 miles on it, those are freakishly clean. The rocker arms look normal, that's what I'd expect the heads to look like.

Yup, I was there. I strapped the engine down while driving it home because it was flopping around too much. Has around 121K miles i think on it, we will see once the valve covers and pan are pulled.

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: Yeah I don't think the heads on that will look nearly as 'purdy' Seriously, I've never seen heads that clean on anything that has more than 1000 miles on it, those are freakishly clean. The rocker arms look normal, that's what I'd expect the heads to look like.

I agree, I was like "Wow", that's unreal! But never fear, that engine will be put to good use.

you should use the intake that is on that engine. its kinda like matts dual throtle body intake but with just one throtle body. should still be better then the original. just paint it red with silver and add a center cover for the fiero sticker. ether way should be a nice engine for your car. by the way i got my car up and running [ with a few minor problems that will be fixed].

Looking good there! I'm keeping my eye on some of the parts you may have -- especially your 2.8!! The next swap you boys will have to do (haha)! Keep up the good work!

quote Originally posted by fiero al: you should use the intake that is on that engine. its kinda like matts dual throtle body intake but with just one throtle body. should still be better then the original. just paint it red with silver and add a center cover for the fiero sticker. ether way should be a nice engine for your car. by the way i got my car up and running [ with a few minor problems that will be fixed].

Wish we could, when you flip it around its right smack in the way of the Dizzy.

you could still use it but you will have to change the intake to the other side of the car. not the intake on the engine but the location of the original intake on the car. if you do what you did with your car, move the battery to the front, you can get and intake on it that way. also with the engine having a coil pack, are you going to do the computer switch or are you making it a distributor system?

Today Matt's friend Alex (Fiero Al) came over and helped me remove all the parts from the 2.8 that I need to go on the 3.4. You can see the difference between the 3.4 pan (left) and the 2.8 pan (right). As most of you know, you have to use the 2.8 pan on the 3.4 for this swap

Also, see the bottom of the 3.4. We are replacing the main and rod bearings. The crank itself looks pretty good.

Next is rebuilding the 3.4

[This message has been edited by Ridgelandbaseball (edited 09-04-2010).]