I've been looking at the "normal" 11 1/4 brake setup using LeBaron rear rotors and 3rd Gen Camaro front calipers. I've never been really satisfied with it, as the location of the banjo fitting on the Camaro caliper is very close to the mounting ear on the Fiero knuckle and interferes with things too much for my taste. The fitting is so close that factory hoses can not be used and aftermarket braided steel lines MUST be used. Yes, it does work, but it always seemed like backyard engineering to me.
I just found a solution that satisfies my finicky sense of design. I took the front caliper from an '84 4WD Blazer in a junk yard. It is EXACTLY like the 3rd gen F-body caliper EXCEPT for the position of the banjo fitting. Instead of being on the bottom of the caliper as with the F-body unit, the Blazer banjo fitting is on top of the caliper, right next to the bleed screw.
IOW, the Blazer caliper will bolt directly in place of the F-body caliper on all 11 1/4" kits, but will not require longer brake lines, and can be used with factory hoses. Slight modification to the Fiero fitting will be necessary, but this can be done with a file.
I'll have the proper applications list for this caliper in a couple of days.
------------------ Turn the key and feel the engine shake the whole car with its lope; Plant the gas pedal and feel in your chest neither a shriek nor a wail but a bellowing roar; Lift and be pushed into the harness by compression braking that only comes from the biggest cylinders while listening to music of pops and gurgles. Know that you are driving an American V8. There are finer engines made, but none of them are this cool.
Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future
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05:37 PM
PFF
System Bot
Will Member
Posts: 14249 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
The calipers come from 4WD '83-'94 Blazers. The left is CarQuest P/N 18-4129 and the right is CarQuest P/N 18-4128 for unloaded calipers. The loaded caliper P/N's are 16-4128(9) for right and left, respectively.
Do NOT get 2WD calipers. Those are exactly the same as the F-body calipers.
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 12-29-2004).]
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05:59 PM
USFiero Member
Posts: 4877 From: Everywhere and Middle of Nowhere Registered: Mar 2002
The 1LE third gen's had aluminum calipers, but they are rare and expensive. Much more cost-effective to use the iron ones. Besides, that's what the market is already built around.
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06:32 PM
Hank is Here Member
Posts: 4451 From: Hershey, Pa Registered: Sep 2000
Thanks, Will. I have an 88, and the brakes are acceptable, but I also may acquire another pre-88 car soon...
------------------ '88 Formula - 4.9 conversion by The Fiero Factory Shifter surround resto by Fierotech SUPPORT YOUR FIERO MERCHANTS Proud member of the Lightbar Fraternity PFF Supporting Member "He who does not oppose evil, commands that it be done!" ----Leonardo da Vinci
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02:18 PM
Bobert Member
Posts: 371 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Jan 2002
Will, Your efforts and focused energy have not been lost to our community. Personnaly, I do follow your stellar dedication to the brake upgrade. The present lack of "hits" to this particular S-10 caliper upgrade is probably due to the Christmas season. Posting this again in a few months will definatley show more immediate interest. A.J. Foyt, Roger Penske, Ak Miller, Andy Granetelli, Roger Moore, Dan Gurney...etc, all exceptional thinkers of new ideas. Yet their genius is not, or was not, always apprecaited and they were not discuraged. Keep on keeping on. We know your busy and look forward to your ideas.
Sincerley,
Kevin J. Sullivan
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11:18 AM
TG oreiF 8891 Member
Posts: 776 From: Cleveland, Ohio; USA Registered: Aug 2004
I've seen these before, and I've considered them as a possibility, but I've never seen the backs of them, so I don't know where the connection is. I'll email them about it and find out.
These are replacements for the calipers used on the '98 and newer Grand Prix, among other things... With GP brackets for 12" rotors, you could run these with Purple Reign's setup using LS1 F-body calipers...
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 01-03-2005).]
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11:18 AM
thecage Member
Posts: 342 From: woodbridge, ontario, canada Registered: Oct 2001
There are, as I understand it, a few minor issues with the rear brakes as well... I haven't looked at them yet, however.
One possibility that comes to mind is that the LeBaron uses a mechanical drum inside teh hat section of the rotor for a parking brake. Perhaps this mechanism could be adapted to the Fiero...
Originally posted by Kohburn: downfall of the cadillac calipers is they are 100$ a pop vs the non ebrake blazer calipers being 15$ (plus 15$ core) each
being mine Fiero has a manual trans, the parking brake is a little more important for me. I already have the brackets for the calipers, but no rotors or calipers yet. got a little time while the car sits thru the winter. planning on the cadillac rears & camaro fronts & Lebaron rotors.
Will I had alot of guys asking about a brake upgrade for the pre 88's when I put together my brake upgrade for the 88 Fieros. I think you would have alot of guys join in after you got all the info together! I was going to do this as my next project but desided I am doing 2 others ideas I have.
An aftermarket mirror and replacement taillights for both the Notchback and Fastback cars.
------------------ Bobby from NW Indiana 93 Northstar and 5 speed Getrag 219customs@verizon.net My build thread
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04:21 PM
kslish Member
Posts: 1476 From: Womelsdorf, PA Registered: Apr 2000
To further the discussion, here are some pics I found on the web showing the location of the fittings:
First the Camaro caliper (correct me if I'm wrong...just trusting Advance Auto's website):
This should be the Blazer caliper (again correct me if I'm wrong):
And finally, here is Wilwood's aluminum replacement (appears to cost about $100 a caliper and weighs 2.97 lbs). Anyone know how much a stock caliper weighs? The banjo fitting is directly opposite (across from) the bleed valve.
Who wants to be the first to try it???
Ken S.
[This message has been edited by kslish (edited 01-03-2005).]
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04:41 PM
Fiero STS Member
Posts: 2045 From: Wyoming, MN. usa Registered: Nov 2001
Will, nice find on the calipers. If you replace the LeBaron rear discs with front discs on the front, it will move the caliper farther away from every thing, as the offset is alot less. But you will need longer bolts and thicker spacers for the mounting brackets.
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05:06 PM
Will Member
Posts: 14249 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Originally posted by kslish: This should be the Blazer caliper (again correct me if I'm wrong):
Well the top picture is the Camaro caliper, but this is not the same caliper as I had picked out. This is a full size Blazer caliper. It appears to have promise, however, I haven't gotten one in my hands to check. The S10 (small) Blazer caliper is the one to which I was referring. I'd like to get one of these to look at as well... I'll talk to my parts guy about that tomorrow...
quote
And finally, here is Wilwood's aluminum replacement (appears to cost about $100 a caliper and weighs 2.97 lbs). Anyone know how much a stock caliper weighs? The banjo fitting is directly opposite (across from) the bleed valve. Who wants to be the first to try it???
Looks like this will work well... The big problem with the Camaro calipers isn't that the fitting is on the bottom... it's that the acces to the fitting is restricted to a specific direction. This does not seem to be the case with the Wilwoods, so they should be fine to use. I'd like to prove my system with the factory calipers before I change to aftermarket calipers.
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 01-03-2005).]
This is really timely information. I'm just getting ready to collect some hardeware for this brake conversion. I think I'll go with the Willwood calipers.
Steve
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09:19 AM
Will Member
Posts: 14249 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Might want to find out more first... The Wilwood Dynalites are not really street calipers because they don't have dust boots on the pistons. I don't know if the GM Metric has a piston dust boot or not. You ought to find that out before you commit to using those...
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09:22 AM
kslish Member
Posts: 1476 From: Womelsdorf, PA Registered: Apr 2000
I sent an e-mail off to Wilwood to see what they have to say about the dust boot question on their GM Metric calipers.
I also found another aftermarket supplier....these are dual piston aluminum replacements that replace the standard GM brake caliper and run about $150 each from Stainless Steel Brake Co....
Ahh the possibilities..... just need to do more research....
Ken S.
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02:45 PM
PFF
System Bot
Will Member
Posts: 14249 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Might want to find out more first... The Wilwood Dynalites are not really street calipers because they don't have dust boots on the pistons. I don't know if the GM Metric has a piston dust boot or not. You ought to find that out before you commit to using those...
...Wilwood's aluminum replacement (appears to cost about $100 a caliper and weighs 2.97 lbs). Anyone know how much a stock caliper weighs? The banjo fitting is directly opposite (across from) the bleed valve.
Looks like this will work well... The big problem with the Camaro calipers isn't that the fitting is on the bottom... it's that the acces to the fitting is restricted to a specific direction. This does not seem to be the case with the Wilwoods, so they should be fine to use. I'd like to prove my system with the factory calipers before I change to aftermarket calipers.
O.K., so the GM Metric would be the one to use? That makes me wonder whether using Wilwood's GM Metric would allow the use of 15" wheels. I have put some 11.25" Lebaron rotors on a Shelby Dodge Charger and the stock 15" Fiero lace wheel fit fine. Thus, it appears that the need to use a large wheel is due primarily to the size of the GM calipers that are normally used in the swap.
------------------ FierOmar
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03:21 PM
Will Member
Posts: 14249 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Compared to the Camaro caliper, the GM Metric and S10 Blazer (and full size Blazer) have much better access to the brake hose fitting location. We don't know if the Wilwood GM Metric calipers have dust boots on the pistons or not. If they don't I'd advise against them for street use...
I sent an e-mail off to Wilwood to see what they have to say about the dust boot question on their GM Metric calipers.
I also found another aftermarket supplier....these are dual piston aluminum replacements that replace the standard GM brake caliper and run about $150 each from Stainless Steel Brake Co....
Ahh the possibilities..... just need to do more research....
Ken S.
nice but do they offer one with a mechanical e-brake?
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03:30 PM
Will Member
Posts: 14249 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Originally posted by kslish: This should be the Blazer caliper (again correct me if I'm wrong):
[/IMG]
As has been said before, this is the full size Blazer caliper. I just looked at one today. It is MUCH bigger than the Camaro/S10 caliper and would not fit the same brackets. I think it's too large to be appropriate for the Fiero.
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06:38 PM
Flyguyeddy Member
Posts: 568 From: pekin, Il USA Registered: Dec 2003
Yes. The S10/Blazer caliper uses exactly the same brackets, spacers, and other hardware. The full size Blazer caliper will not work with the same brackets. This thread is about the S10/Blazer caliper. Said caliper caliper will not require as long a brake hose as the Camaro caliper. It should be useable with the factory hoses already on your car.
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 01-04-2005).]
