As many of you know, I've been working for some time on this project. I had hoped to have the prototype finished earlier this summer, but R&D has proven to take a good bit of time. To date I have had to revise my plans three times in order to accommodate the Fiero gauges. I have roughly 53 hours of grueling work into these. The leds are microscopic, which makes the work back breaking (no pun intended, it's intense working with something so small). I would have had the entire setup complete tonight, but two SMT panels are not working properly, so I will hold off until tomorrow to finish. Everything else is working very well! The lights are stunningly beautiful, the dimmer works flawlessly, the needles look nice... sigh, I am very happy with the results.
So let me show you guys what I've been working on for the past two weeks:
The SMT needle boards. These boards are used to light the needles, a feature the stock gauges don't have. These make coloring the gauge needles possible; red, yellow, green, blue, purple, any color you can think of. They are the hardest part of the build, but the rewards make them worthwhile.
I am currently learning how to build a board that will allow for the needles to highlight at certain ranges (say the rpm needle turns bright red at a certain RPM up. The idea is pretty cool, I'll just have to see if I can make it work with such small space constraints.
Applying 3.1volts via two C batteries. This is only enough current to power a single light; and as you can see, it's quite bright!
Here is a picture of all four being lit under 12 volts. WOW!
After testing the boards, and carefully soldering the leads on, the boards had to be mounted onto the gauges. This is tricky because the boards have to be positioned just right, or else the needles will snug the board and stick.
The base of the needle neatly fits over all four LEDs. Pretty slick.
I wanted to see how the light was emitted through the needle, so I tried lighting one up with my battery back. Off:
On:
Not bad for one led in daylight.
Here are the two aux. gauges finished. Notice the Fuel gauge does not have a polarity cap.
Snuggly fit into their places:
The speedo and tach gauges are done the same way. So on to the faceplates.
The faceplated must gently be separated from the old light guides and the tacky adhesive removes. Then each panel must be lightly sanded to remove the stock light diffusers, and finally the orange tinting must be removed. Now we can shine any color through them without the light becoming distorted and filtered.
Styrene diffusers are cut to fit, and then adhered to the back of the faceplates.
The old light guide also serves as the mounting plate for the speedo and tach, so we can reattach the faceplates to these guides.
Although both guides will have to be extensively modified later on, so that the LED light can properly get to the faceplate. The center Aux guide cannot be reused due to space constrictions, and so the center faceplate is mounted without it.
Now, on to the backlights. Tried and true, the flexible LED strips proved to be the best alternative for lighting. I tested both SMT mounted lights, and standard high intensity single leds mounted to a PCB board. The problem was always light dispersion, because the visual array on both of the alternatives was only 90*, where as the flexible strips have a full 180* sweep. The flexible strips also save me from having to add diodes.
I decided I would use Red for the first cluster.
Here is a very early test fit. You can see how badly the color bleeds out of any nook or hole.
The light would have to be contained so that it would not mingle with the needle LEDs or leak out the front.
Two days later: Take note that the warning gauges do not have their channels behind them, so light does not come out of there anymore.
Finishing the Tach:
You can also see the felt washers that are placed around the needle LEDs to prevent leakage (center aux gauges). ---------------------------------------------------------
And here are the results as of taken tonight.
Here you can see the difference between the stock GT Aux cluster, hvac controls, and radio. The cluster surround is not installed, and so the small amounts of leak you can see at the bottom will not be visible once the knee board and surround are installed.
Incredible differences!
Here is the difference between the stock HVAC panel and an LED lit panel (Both taken at F2.8, SP .25sec, Macro).
Stock- you can barely see it.
Backlit- its too bright. I'm holding the faceplate in my hand, so once its put together, a lot of the light pollution will no longer exist. I also plan on installing a second diffuser that will help with the light dispersion.
More to come very soon. Please leave feedback, opinions, and concerns.
This is becoming very interesting. I do appreciate the effort that is going into this. I don't think I would spend my time working with this old technology. I would prefer to update to improve. You, sir, are proving that we can apply modern technology to the old and create something beautiful. I thank you.
------------------ "Semper Fiero"
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04:39 AM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
This is great R&D type effort, I congratulate you!!! Are you planning to offer these for sale? It looks like a lot of work and based on the amount of time not cheap.
This is great R&D type effort, I congratulate you!!! Are you planning to offer these for sale? It looks like a lot of work and based on the amount of time not cheap.
First of all thank you!
I've been thinking a lot about production. There's a lot of work involved, and it isn't the funnest project I've done either. But I've put so much work into this, I'd like to get something out of it. And secondly, I'd really like to see some different colored gauges on this forum as well as alternatives to speed hut gauges. I know white will be breathtaking, and blue looks very promising too. I know Jimmy wants something special, and so I've already done preparation to help him get what he wants. So yes, I will sell as many as I can stand to make. When I get tired of making them, I can pass the information off here for those here to have.
I'm going to streamline the process as much as possible, but you're right, there is a great deal of time into each of these. My original estimates were a bit low, as it will be slightly more expensive considering the time involved. But I think the additional charge is worth it. I've seen Speedhut gauges, and I've seen electroluminescent gauges- these are much much much much ... much much better looking. I know some people like the El Glo and SH gauges, but I think an option is great for those of us who don't.
Did you just scrape the backs of the needles clean with like a razor blade? What is the white paint for? Could you explain the process in detail how you repainted the backs of the needles? Thanks Daniel
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05:03 AM
AusFiero Member
Posts: 11513 From: Dapto NSW Australia Registered: Feb 2001
Did you just scrape the backs of the needles clean with like a razor blade? What is the white paint for? Could you explain the process in detail how you repainted the backs of the needles? Thanks Daniel
Daniel, I actually sanded the backs, but I've heard that a razor blade will work. There are also some solvents on the market the will remove the paint; this is a riskier method however, as the needles will dissolve with too strong a chemical.
Process. -Sand backs clear. -Apply color. -Apply white one top of color. -Clean excess paint once dry. -Reassemble
The white is used as a backing to the color so that the light is reflected forward. I have done a set of these before with the stock bulbs; I wasn't very pleased. You really need the SMT board or another method of lighting in order to see the needles. Flat paints will come out as black at night without additional lighting. Fluorescents colors are a plus.
They are 1206 SMT, 500mcd. You can buy them domestically online, or foreign through ebay. Mine came from Hong Kong, but took a month to arrive. Domestic units can be almost double in price.
[This message has been edited by Emc209i (edited 10-11-2008).]
They are 1206 SMT, 500mcd. You can buy them domestically online, or foreign through ebay. Mine came from Hong Kong, but took a full week to arrive. Domestic units can be almost double in price.
I'm curious as to how bright 500mcd actually is. Like what can it be compared to. I'm thinking about trying a project with a vehicle that isn't a fiero involving LED's like the new Audi uses around its headlights as marker lights. Although am unsure what type of brightness is enough, and what is too much.
[This message has been edited by fiero go fast (edited 07-23-2008).]
A single LED is enough to blind you. I'm not sure how well it would project, but it would serve well as a visible marker.
Yeah, I would just want it to be visible at night as well as during the day, not to project. Although when I look on superbrightlcds.com they have some has bright at 18000 mcd. I'm thinking that'd probably be overkill, but there really isn't a way of knowing how much overkill unless seeing it in person. And I don't want to spend a small fortune on LEDs I don't use because they are too bright.
[This message has been edited by fiero go fast (edited 07-23-2008).]
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12:54 PM
PFF
System Bot
Riceburner98 Member
Posts: 2179 From: Natick, Ma, USA Registered: Apr 2002
1,000 mcd = 1 candle power. So in theory, 1,000 mcd should be as bright as a candle. I've got some 140,000 mcd 10mm LED's (ebay) that are fairly bright, but the ones in the real LED flashlights like the MagLite ones are brighter. They are Luxeon Stars, I believe made by Phillips? They're about $6 an LED, and to use them right you really need a PWM or constant current driver so as not to over-drive them. They have 700ma, 1A and 1.5A versions. I think the Audi A5 / etc headlights are using these as the markers. (Didn't even know they made an A5 'till the other day when I saw those LEDs behind me, then it passed me. I thought it was going to be an R8 or something.) All that being said, you've done some great work Emc! I had thought about doing either LED rings for the needles or attaching an 0603 LED directly to the needle with a loop of flexible wire, you've proven that the LED ring works great! Definitely a nice upgrade for the stock gauges!
Yeah, I would just want it to be visible at night as well as during the day, not to project. Although when I look on superbrightlcds.com they have some has bright at 18000 mcd. I'm thinking that'd probably be overkill, but there really isn't a way of knowing how much overkill unless seeing it in person. And I don't want to spend a small fortune on LEDs I don't use because they are too bright.
I have just one tiny SMT left. What if I sent it to you in the mail?
Maybe the candle light example could be used for radiant light. Luminosity wise its brighter than a 60 watt bulb. I wore sunglasses when I was putting them together, because they were hurting my eyes.
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07:12 PM
Apr 27th, 2009
americasfuture2k Member
Posts: 7131 From: Edmond, Oklahoma Registered: Jan 2006
Progress, yes! I now have a workshop area set up to make these, along with a process for streamlining production. The red set I made last summer have been working without fail.
If anyone's interested, I'm willing to build another set. PM me for details.
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05:34 PM
RCR Member
Posts: 4410 From: Shelby Twp Mi Registered: Sep 2002
Progress, yes! I now have a workshop area set up to make these, along with a process for streamlining production. The red set I made last summer have been working without fail.
If anyone's interested, I'm willing to build another set. PM me for details.
You have inspired me for sure. I bookmarked this thread about a month ago, and finally got around to taking my gauge cluster out a few minutes ago. I came back to the archives to read up again, and try to follow your install.
In the first posts, you just kind of show them laying on the bench as a test lit up, do you have a photo of where you stuck them behind the gauges? ALso what are the lumens on the ones you used... 120 Lumens seems to be popular. I would like to try to do this myself, but If I fail, you will be receiving a PM from me
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 06-16-2009).]
Sorting through my pm's now. I'm going to be negotiating prices in private atm, and will share a price after I've completed a few orders. That way I'll get a chance to evaluate if the price is appropriate for the amount of time that will go into each. I'd like to charge little as possible, but I also have to be fair to myself being these are handcrafted.
Thank you everyone for the kind words, I appreciate the praise. I will continue to receive pm's, but there will be a waiting period for sure. I won't allow myself to take to many orders at a time.
John- I don't have a picture for you, I'm sorry. I cut strips of the appropriate size, soldered wire to the copper leads on the inside of the insulation, and fastened the strips to the circuit boards. The fuel and temp gauges will be the trickiest part. Good luck.
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12:25 AM
Wichita Member
Posts: 20686 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
on the clear plastic pieces the light travels through to evenly illuminate a portion of the gauge face, paint the parts that light does not neet to escape from with some of that chrome or bright white paint but leaving the section where you want the light to exit unpainted. it would be easier to do with an airbrush.
for the needles, paint the sides and backing of the needle chrome or bright white so light only reflects out the face of the needle. either color you use to paint it, the needle will definantly be visiable during hte day time if its lit by more than one LED. OR paint only the backing of the needle white or chrome, and lightly coat the face and sides of the needle with nite shades. give it a cool dark look when off, then a badass [color of LED choice] look when lit up.
add some of those very tiny SMD leds to the back of a needle coated lightly with nite shades. but doing so will throw the weight of the needle off and thus making your anolog measurments off. fund out what the weight is of say... 3 of the SMD LEDs and try to [carefully] scrape out enough plastic to fit those LEDs and hopefully the weight of the LEDs, one to two strands of wire and very little solder so the needle lights more like the luxury car needles.
make just the tips glow... guess the little weight change with the resistors and led wont changh the accuracy of the gauge reading if this method is suggested
this looks like the white needs to be turned down w/ a PWM to make the lighting and visibility of the needle better. but it could also be the camera.
When I left the needles alone, after I lit everything up the needles appeared "salmon" instead of orange. We're going to fix that. This is the paint I used - "Fluoresecent Orange Shiny" and "Bright White Shiny" Polymark brand fabric paint.
also has some good info on changing the color of some of the idiot lights. they just go to white, but you can probably use some water diluted acrylic paint or some kind of colored clear coat to achieve the color your looking for. not sure how to make some of the black symbols like the check wallet symbols (engine and low gas light if you added this circuit, check my signature) but im sure some tiny vinyl stickers could be made somehow or somewhere.
also found an easier way to do a color changing needle. look in my "modernize your fiero with technology!" thread on the 3rd page at the bottom. i han an explination on the post with the two videos.
What were the resistors you had to use for the led sets. I am looking into changing the needles out to be white with the speed hit blac/red combination. did you hook the led sets into the 194 sockets with reverse wiring or did you solder it?
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03:57 AM
Jan 1st, 2012
gtxbullet Member
Posts: 4167 From: Pewaukee, Wisconsin, USA Registered: Apr 2008
great job!!! I've done some tough electrical work in previous years but nothing on such a "SMALL" scale. hopefully you didn't go blind from focusing on thse teeny tiny leads
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