Totally off the wall, I was thinking about Pokey & his project last night.
Just wondering if things ever fell into place. Anyone know ??

Dunno, but it's been almost a year since he posted in his thread about it.

I won't speak for Pokey but to produce these things will require 10's of thousands of dollars and until a true pre-order list has been composed, I wouldn't go forward with production either. I cannot tell you how many times the entire forum is gung-ho behind a great idea. When the product is finally produced, it sounds like crickets around here when time comes to buy because everyone thought the products would be at give-away prices. For Pokey to sell 50 sets of windows at $300 per pair would just about cover the price of the aluminum mold and getting those 50 orders would be like pulling teeth around here. After that, MAYBE he would make a profit. The big name players who make parts can vouch for that.

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 01-13-2011).]

quote Originally posted by IMSA GT: I won't speak for Pokey but to produce these things will require 10's of thousands of dollars and until a true pre-order list has been composed, I wouldn't go forward with production either. I cannot tell you how many times the entire forum is gung-ho behind a great idea. When the product is finally produced, it sounds like crickets around here when time comes to buy because everyone thought the products would be at give-away prices. For Pokey to sell 50 sets of windows at $300 per pair would just about cover the price of the aluminum mold and getting those 50 orders would be like pulling teeth around here. After that, MAYBE he would make a profit. The big name players who make parts can vouch for that.

Yep, I agree. Everybody wants to complain, but nobody wants to step forward. Until then, we're all stuck with flat windows.

Hm, been there I had hundreds on the list and only 5 of those people actually stepped up and bought when my seals went into production after I invested $25K in tooling and inventory. Those truly interested in quality stuck with me and I really appreciate their support.

My new trunk seal corners are FINALLY in production (got the final plug yesterday and I will post pix in my thread tomorrow when I get home) but it has taken 5 x as long as promised

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Is your Fastback GT's trunk seal shot? My replacement GT trunk seals are now in production and shipping. $95 + $15 flat rate shipping to the US (contact me for international shipping rates) or buy two and pay only a single shipping rate! More info can be found here GT Trunk Seal Project

quote Originally posted by infinitewill: Hm, been there I had hundreds on the list and only 5 of those people actually stepped up and bought when my seals went into production after I invested $25K in tooling and inventory. Those truly interested in quality stuck with me and I really appreciate their support.

Thats exactly what I mean. The "support" is great when the talking begins but once the talking stops and the action starts, everyone runs for the hills.

Edit to add......I am slightly guilty of this also with the solid fiberglass taillight panels for sale in the mall. I supported JPH87, and still do, but have not purchased from him yet.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/054051.html

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 01-13-2011).]

quote Originally posted by infinitewill: Hm, been there I had hundreds on the list and only 5 of those people actually stepped up and bought when my seals went into production after I invested $25K in tooling and inventory. Those truly interested in quality stuck with me and I really appreciate their support. My new trunk seal corners are FINALLY in production (got the final plug yesterday and I will post pix in my thread tomorrow when I get home) but it has taken 5 x as long as promised

That is a good price considering i bought one at a GM dealer four years ago and paid over 200.00$
And the fit is so so . Or maybe my trunk have gain some weight.
Probably would have bought one from you .

[This message has been edited by Robert 2 (edited 01-13-2011).]

quote Originally posted by infinitewill: Hm, been there My new trunk seal corners are FINALLY in production (got the final plug yesterday and I will post pix in my thread tomorrow when I get home) but it has taken 5 x as long as promised

Are these the same seals the Fiero Store just had a group sale on? If not I feel bad now that I just ordered seals from TFS Monday. I would have ordered yours if I had known.

I guess it's my own fault for not searching the forum enough.

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Jim Martin
White '86 GT
California

quote Originally posted by IMSA GT: I won't speak for Pokey but to produce these things will require 10's of thousands of dollars and until a true pre-order list has been composed, I wouldn't go forward with production either. I cannot tell you how many times the entire forum is gung-ho behind a great idea. When the product is finally produced, it sounds like crickets around here when time comes to buy because everyone thought the products would be at give-away prices. For Pokey to sell 50 sets of windows at $300 per pair would just about cover the price of the aluminum mold and getting those 50 orders would be like pulling teeth around here. After that, MAYBE he would make a profit. The big name players who make parts can vouch for that.

I apologize if I am wrong but my recollection is the last price being kicked around for Pokey's was $650. When the thread was first started I believe he was planning to make them for under $300. I am not going to find the thread and read through it but I know he was not planning to sell them anywhere near $300 when he gave up. If I remember correctly (LONG time ago) I posted early in that thread that I "might" go as high as $300 but would not be willing to go higher no matter how good they were. Of course there were the people claiming they would be willing to pay $1000 for a set if they were "perfect". I wonder how many of them will actually show up with the cash if they are ever finished.

I know exactly what you are saying about the no-shows when it comes time to buy. I hate that. I am one of the people that bought one of those trunk gaskets as soon as they were produced(still in the box because I'm not ready for it yet) but I came through when he got them for sale. In fact it's stacked with the JPH87 one piece tail light section that I bought because I said I would .
It's really tough to ask guys to develop something then change your mind. I know some of these take sooo long to develop that you may die of old age before they are ready

I would urge you to not leave these guys hanging IF it is done in a reasonable amount of time and for at least close to the price that was projected. Pokey's windows did not meet either one of those conditions (Through no fault of his own). I hate that he spent the money that he did on this project with $0 return.

quote Originally posted by Terry_w: I apologize if I am wrong but my recollection is the last price being kicked around for Pokey's was $650. When the thread was first started I believe he was planning to make them for under $300.

Wow, I definately see no return profit on the windows if that is the case.

Just $0.02 - its all the same around the world, life is life, I seen this all around (couse I owned a lot of youngtimers ). I made mould for unique 20 years old bumper ground effect, this one:

I made this copy for myself, just in case, its easy to destroy on poor roads I have to use. When you ask fanatics of this cars, do you like it? Everybody like it. Do you need this? Yeah, 20 persons at once. Do we make any list? (with price about of one - two days average salary in Poland) Two persons stay. Sorry, for two persons I have no interest in dirty resin work, and prices for materials are different if you buy for 2 or 200 bumpers, so, friends, if you need this, simple find and buy this bumper on the market.

Always is the same - fans of elder popular cars are nice fine guys, with heart and soul, but if anybody think they (we ) as population have a money, and spent this money in one two three, dreamin. There is no lambo or ferrari club, there is forum of 20-25 years pop cars. And even if there are a few persons with big money and spent this money for excentric hobby, its not enough for serious bussines of MASS production. So always be careful with bizplan, even if half a forum posts "great idea!" "I want this!" - posts are cheap

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Fiero 1985 notch 2.5 automatic
http://boni.smutek.pl/auto

[This message has been edited by Boni (edited 01-13-2011).]

quote Originally posted by infinitewill: Hm, been there I had hundreds on the list and only 5 of those people actually stepped up and bought when my seals went into production after I invested $25K in tooling and inventory. Those truly interested in quality stuck with me and I really appreciate their support. My new trunk seal corners are FINALLY in production (got the final plug yesterday and I will post pix in my thread tomorrow when I get home) but it has taken 5 x as long as promised

I think I was one of the 5 and I was like a little kid waiting for the seal. It's a great price and I am very happy with it. I can't believe that's all that stepped up as hard as these seals were to get.
Larry

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"Life is short.
Drink the good wine first"

I can't believe that was all that stepped up. I waited for you to get them done and they are a great product. I bought two, one went on my 88 as soon as I got it and one is a spare for the next time I need one, since my 86 is an NOS and we know that my original 86's only lasted 3 years before tearing (and i don't know how long that NOS one will last since I actually got it in 89, just never put it on until I moved to rainy Texas).

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Scott

As I said earlier, it is difficult to judge the buyers on this forum because many support the idea of new parts but don't want to pay. I am waiting for JimmyS to chime in. He devoted a lot of time and money for his products. Hopefully he is selling quite a bit.

quote Originally posted by Larryh86GT: I think I was one of the 5 and I was like a little kid waiting for the seal. It's a great price and I am very happy with it. I can't believe that's all that stepped up as hard as these seals were to get. Larry

quote Originally posted by daddyengineer: I can't believe that was all that stepped up. I waited for you to get them done and they are a great product. I bought two, one went on my 88 as soon as I got it and one is a spare for the next time I need one, since my 86 is an NOS and we know that my original 86's only lasted 3 years before tearing (and i don't know how long that NOS one will last since I actually got it in 89, just never put it on until I moved to rainy Texas).

I don't want to mislead you about how many people have bought seals, many more stepped up that were not on the waiting list. I was just stunned that ao many said "I'm in" and suddenly wouldn't return an email once production had started. Another example was the 4 pc. Billet badges I reproduced because another member screwed so many people into the ground. I had nearly 50 people say they wanted them so I produced them and not a single person stepped up. Another expensive lesson.

There is a very big difference between being an informed buyer and being a cheapskate who wants or thinks they deserve a "deal".

[This message has been edited by infinitewill (edited 01-13-2011).]

quote Originally posted by infinitewill: I don't want to mislead you about how many people have bought seals, many more stepped up that were not on the waiting list.

I don't remember if I said I was in or not, but when my project comes out of hibernation I will need a set of seals and I'll look to you first. I like to support the forum members who take the time to help out the community.

Well here is the skinny.

I made the molds and we made several finished panels.
A shoe pad was made and with a lot of care prints came out perfect.

I have a set on my car now.

Everything is hard. Making the perfect window,trimmed perfectly,printed perfectly. Almost an impossible trifecta.
It has now been done. The answer is yes they can be made perfect. Truth is it is expensive and time consuming to do it.
The only way to make it worth it is to get someone to low number runs for cheap. I was not able to my satisfaction make this happen.

I don't want to get anyones hopes up but I now may have someone that can do these little runs. Unfortunately while the project was on the shelf problems arose.
1. My main man Rich White got cancer in a place where you simply don't come back from as a rule.
2. My printer expert resident genius died. His wife sold off the damn computers probably for next to nothing with all the data on them. She also sold all the equipment including my JIG and Shoe. Of course those went in someones garbage can as they are useless to anyone else.
I would like to scream at her but damn her husband is dead you know.

So ............ Right now as we speak another party is seeing if it is feasible to redo the print work and then they can do short runs fairly cheap.
I don't know how much time it will take or if they will be up to my standards. I personally can not invest anymore time much less money into it.
They are investing their expertise and time and charging nothing. They just want to help the Fiero community. If they ever want to be known for what they did I will let you know or they will.
I set out to see if it could be done and it can. Now I hope someone else can make it done cheaper for that part I failed miserably.

The person working on this is a pro and is no stranger to bringing things to the fiero market. I have every reason to believe he will succeed in getting them done at a reasonable cost. I just know I am not able to.

So hopefully some use will come of this after all. I don't have a clue what they may cost. PMing me with a personal " hey buddy just between us " will get you no further. I don't know.

Other than someone else is seeing about getting the costs down I am no source of information.

I'm really in the same boat as everyone else now. I can only hope. So here I am hoping with you all.

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Though I am branded a devil in priests clothing I cast not the raiment I wear for I am not beholden to any flock with which any color has been given to me.

quote Originally posted by infinitewill: I don't want to mislead you about how many people have bought seals, many more stepped up that were not on the waiting list. I was just stunned that ao many said "I'm in" and suddenly wouldn't return an email once production had started. Another example was the 4 pc. Billet badges I reproduced because another member screwed so many people into the ground. I had nearly 50 people say they wanted them so I produced them and not a single person stepped up. Another expensive lesson. There is a very big difference between being an informed buyer and being a cheapskate who wants or thinks they deserve a "deal".

Will when I get the funds you will here from me for a seal. I dont make anything unless its paied for first. got burnder a couple of times and stuck with custom things that nobody else wants other then the trash can.

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: Unfortunately while the project was on the shelf problems arose. 1. My main man Rich White got cancer in a place where you simply don't come back from as a rule. 2. My printer expert resident genius died. His wife sold off the damn computers probably for next to nothing with all the data on them. She also sold all the equipment including my JIG and Shoe. Of course those went in someones garbage can as they are useless to anyone else. I would like to scream at her but damn her husband is dead you know.

Wow, the stuff behind the scenes we never usually hear about that totally screws up a project. That's really unfortunate.

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: So ............ Right now as we speak another party is seeing if it is feasible to redo the print work and then they can do short runs fairly cheap.

That party is Chris West?

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: Well here is the skinny. I made the molds and we made several finished panels. A shoe pad was made and with a lot of care prints came out perfect. I have a set on my car now. Everything is hard. Making the perfect window,trimmed perfectly,printed perfectly. Almost an impossible trifecta. It has now been done. The answer is yes they can be made perfect. Truth is it is expensive and time consuming to do it. The only way to make it worth it is to get someone to low number runs for cheap. I was not able to my satisfaction make this happen. I don't want to get anyones hopes up but I now may have someone that can do these little runs. Unfortunately while the project was on the shelf problems arose. 1. My main man Rich White got cancer in a place where you simply don't come back from as a rule. 2. My printer expert resident genius died. His wife sold off the damn computers probably for next to nothing with all the data on them. She also sold all the equipment including my JIG and Shoe. Of course those went in someones garbage can as they are useless to anyone else. I would like to scream at her but damn her husband is dead you know. So ............ Right now as we speak another party is seeing if it is feasible to redo the print work and then they can do short runs fairly cheap. I don't know how much time it will take or if they will be up to my standards. I personally can not invest anymore time much less money into it. They are investing their expertise and time and charging nothing. They just want to help the Fiero community. If they ever want to be known for what they did I will let you know or they will. I set out to see if it could be done and it can. Now I hope someone else can make it done cheaper for that part I failed miserably. The person working on this is a pro and is no stranger to bringing things to the fiero market. I have every reason to believe he will succeed in getting them done at a reasonable cost. I just know I am not able to. So hopefully some use will come of this after all. I don't have a clue what they may cost. PMing me with a personal " hey buddy just between us " will get you no further. I don't know. Other than someone else is seeing about getting the costs down I am no source of information. I'm really in the same boat as everyone else now. I can only hope. So here I am hoping with you all.

Personally, I'd be in for a set of darkly tinted windows without any printing. Pokey, thanks for getting it this far along! Hopefully the other will be able to see this to fruition.

I was one of the ones who said they'd pay $500 (and not a penny more) for perfect reproductions, and I still stand by that. I don't remember a $1000 figure thrown in there, but screw that noise!

I was pretty sure this was a long dead endeavor for the reasons Pokey mentioned... that Fiero GT sail window curse is brutal. I won't hold my breath to say the least for this new prospect, but I appreciate you looking into it, pokey. I'd say it would be cool if that happens to work out, but that would just spread the curse that much deeper, so I won't.

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'88 Fiero GT - Project MIDTRBO
'10 Camaro LT/RS - daily driver
'96 Talon TSi AWD - 11-second winter beater
There's no replacement for turbo placement

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 02-28-2011).]

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: 2. My printer expert resident genius died. His wife sold off the damn computers probably for next to nothing with all the data on them. She also sold all the equipment including my JIG and Shoe. Of course those went in someones garbage can as they are useless to anyone else. I would like to scream at her but damn her husband is dead you know.

Hi Pokey, so you still have the molds? From following your other threads, it sounded like that was what the big monetary outlay was for? If you're saying that all the money you invested was lost with nothing to show for it, wow that sucks. Did you try to track down the buyer of the computer and equipment and offer a few bucks for what he would have no use for?

quote Originally posted by infinitewill: I don't want to mislead you about how many people have bought seals, many more stepped up that were not on the waiting list. I was just stunned that ao many said "I'm in" and suddenly wouldn't return an email once production had started. Another example was the 4 pc. Billet badges I reproduced because another member screwed so many people into the ground. I had nearly 50 people say they wanted them so I produced them and not a single person stepped up. Another expensive lesson. There is a very big difference between being an informed buyer and being a cheapskate who wants or thinks they deserve a "deal".

I'll be needing two seals _sometime in the near future_, as soon as money and car projects get to that point.

The same would be true for Pokey's windows......

My 87 is nearly road-worthy, but not pretty (yet). My 88 is probably a year or two at best away....

Anyway, thanks for your seals, even though I haven't yet purchased.