Just to let you guys know, I am currently working diligently on getting a 3800 swap "kit" on the market soon. I have had the mounts for years, but now I finally have a solution in the works for axles and as some of you have seen in another thread of mine am working out the details on a completely new swap harness. First off here are my axles.
I had these custom made by a customer of mine that I do a lot of powdercoating for. He has the ability to cut all of the splines etc and everything for the Fiero outer stub splines and the Grand Prix transmission splines are programmed into his CNC.
What I plan on doing is take brand new GTP axles, take them apart have the shafts cut off on the outer side to make them the correct length. Then take the Grand Prix outer stub and have it machined to the correct splines for the Fiero wheel hub. Next re-spline the shaft to the star of the outer stub, then reassemble the axle. What you will have is a swap axle thats a lot thicker than any Fiero axle you will fit in there, made of brand new parts at a reasonable price.
This is going to happen, I have a set of GTP axles sitting here that we are going to prototype off of and I will test them (in my car) to see how well they hold up. We may end up sending the shaft and outer stub to heat treat if we find the machining process takes away any of the temper of the parts.
Now we dont have a price nailed down on these but I will do my best to put them on the market reasonably priced as possible. I am just wondering from you guys that are doing swaps right now, if this is a feasible option for you rather than raping salvage yards and making huge messes in your garages trying to piece axles together out of stuff with 100k+ on it and may fail (I have failed enough axles to fill the bed of a truck, haha).
Let me know what you guys think, and if you are interested I can get you a set like mine also. They are made of 300M and are rated to 1000hp.
uh huh. make some and sell them then. and get your own thread.
I dont need to sell them, It would cost more in shipping than it would to just go out and get them locally.
Also, I dont even know who would want these axles. The chances of finding a 1inch chain is fairly low, and as far as I know you and I are the only ones with fieros that have one. If you do not have a 1 inch chain, then you do not need these axles.
I dont need to sell them, It would cost more in shipping than it would to just go out and get them locally.
Also, I dont even know who would want these axles. The chances of finding a 1inch chain is fairly low, and as far as I know you and I are the only ones with fieros that have one. If you do not have a 1 inch chain, then you do not need these axles.
I can think of 2 people that already have them...One of the two has had his set for over 2 years.....
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10:42 PM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
This thread isnt to try and sell my 300M axles. This thread is to show the capability of products I can have made, and the offer to modify GTP axles for swap use. 90% of the guys on here arent going to want to rummage through salvage yards and tear apart 4 or 6 axles to make 2 for their car. I am going to have brand new axles available to the market. Get your own thread.
whats with the 1 inch chains? why arnt they availible anymore and how much bigger are they compared to the stock chains? does it really make that much of a difference? and if so why doesnt someone look into having those chains made if they are so pivitol in having alot of power? im shur a drag shop could come up with something right?
Yikes. You might get more interest if you sold a $400 set. You could still make 300% profit. Like different grades of performance axles.
Yeah thats the plan. We were talking $400-450 for the pair if things go ok at the machine shop. Then offer an upgrade to have the components heat treated, powdercoated, etc. And it wont be near a 300% profit. The axles themselves new are $60 each so $120, and we talked $100-150 each to have them machined. Hopefully it will come under, just depends on how tough the stock shafts and outer stubs are to machine, and if it tears up their tooling.
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08:20 AM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
whats with the 1 inch chains? why arnt they availible anymore and how much bigger are they compared to the stock chains? does it really make that much of a difference? and if so why doesnt someone look into having those chains made if they are so pivitol in having alot of power? im shur a drag shop could come up with something right?
The 1" chains were made in limited production by a Borg Warner Morse factory in Japan. They were sold to GM Racing division and they only had so many available. When supply started to get low, ZZP bought all the remaining stock off of their shelves and as they started to sell, the price went up as every unit sold. I got lucky and a chain I had in my transmission broke ( I guess I could call that luck) and I got the 3rd to the last one. The last 2 sold within a week.
They are probably twice to 2.5x as strong as a 7/8" chain for a couple reasons. Obviously its wider, but it also has a new link design that is a lot stronger and pivots on the gear differently which helps distribute the load. I have checked everywhere for a replacement chain. The company that makes the axles for me can build the gears, thats the easy part. I can also have gears made in different ratios for the 1" chain. I had a supplier of mine check with Borg Warner Morse and they submitted an email to the Japan factory to see if there was any left over stock available. Nope. Now they do make that style of link chain on their new applications. I saw a transmission cutaway at SEMA last year in the GM booth and noticed they have a 1" ZX chain in one of the new FWD transmissions but I couldnt count the links because of the way they had the case cut away and I couldnt find any availability on just the chain to order it in and count for myself. Im still on the project though.
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08:28 AM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
I don't understand, are these axles $1750.00 or $400-500? I am cornfused.... I think a set of brand new custom made axles is worth a good price but $1750.00 is craziness... Again I am eventually doing a 3800 swap and I want a pretty fast car afterwards but some of this stuff is just not worth that much.... JMHO... peace
Pete
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09:29 AM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
The axles we are talking $400-450 are what I am working on, which is taking brand new GTP axles, taking them apart, shortening the shafts, resplining the ends and taking the outer stub, and resplining them to fit the fiero wheel bearing.
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10:20 AM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
Well looks like stuff might be a little more expensive than I thought. I took the axles apart today and the shafts shrink down under the boots. They appear large in the middle then are cut thinner before they get to the splined section, then go back up to the size you see between the boots. The guy that built my axles checked them out and he said the only way to make it happen is to make a new shaft.
Now we can do a couple of different options and I need you guys' opinion.
#1 we can build just the shafts and sell them outright. They will be splined on the ends to use a GTP inner tri-lobe bearing and tripot on the inners and Fiero manual transmission outers. You will have to find the donor axles. I can get these for aprox $300.
#2 we can build a complete cv shaft. We will be utilizing brand new GSP cv shafts from Advance Auto Parts. I will disassemble them to prepare them for the custom shorter shafts. In the process, take the outer section and have it machined and resplined to fit the Fiero wheel hub. (Fiero manual trans axles are getting harder to come by that are still in good shape, and they are beefier than the automatic axles). This is the part of the operation that is costing more than I suspected. The splined section has been case hardened by an electric current process, and my guy recommends we have them heat treated since the case hardening will be machined away. These cv's will come in at $575.
Let me know what you guys think. Thanks
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04:52 PM
PFF
System Bot
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
I may suggest machining adapters for Porsche axles. That way you can just have Porsche axles assembled at whatever length, and just sell the adapters separate.
You would also vastly expand your audience as well, as a few of the FWD guys and or manual trans guys could use them.
Stock Porsche axle.
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05:48 PM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
My new axles are porsche style and I could have just the ends produced. Whether you would be saving any money or not by sourcing your own shafts and cv's rather than buying mine for $1750, dunno.
BTW I know the price seems stiff, but people such as Hugh should chime in as to what they spent on axles such as those available from Mark Williams Enterprises.
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09:43 PM
May 26th, 2011
Four_hundred_86 Member
Posts: 656 From: West/Central Texas Registered: Oct 2008
I spent $2750 for my Mark Williams axles and CV joints made to order.Check my signature for their picture.
Mark Williams makes quality stuff but most DIY 3800 swaps can be done for less than what your axels cost. Getting back to what Fiero X is doing, he might have an easy solution for the DIY installer but at $400 they would probably appeal to the drag car builders. I had a set of custom axles made up at a CV Axle shop for $100 each. All GM parts were used and they are very strong.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
At what HP/torque level do you think these would become necessary?
Well darkhorizon claims to do moon wheelies and backflips with his stock axles making god knows how much power but back in the day I made 351 wheel torque and would break an occasional axle. I ran mid 11's with 1.57-1.60 60 foots also. I would think that the $575 axles we are machining will be good into the 10's. The axles I have now are going to be good to 8.99 most likely. There are GTO's on axles like these going 8.80.
You want the 300m ones like mine or the swap axles I'm having machined?
The machined swap axles, I like the idea of not having to piece together a bunch of parts from the junk yard I like the idea of new clean parts that will fit. The $5xx price range sounds decent to me for a such a limited/custom market.
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02:50 PM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
The machined swap axles, I like the idea of not having to piece together a bunch of parts from the junk yard I like the idea of new clean parts that will fit. The $5xx price range sounds decent to me for a such a limited/custom market.
as "bad" as junkyard parts sound, it is the easiest way to get OEM parts, period. Not to mention they are significantly cheaper.
I have built 5 or so sets of swap axles, each pair took me less than 5 hours, which involved me waking up, going to the junkyard and buying everything, then coming home and assembling in 30-40 minutes.
Also, the Porche axles can be easily modified, and you can get stock ones in the $150 each range.. So... Toss a set of adapters together and I have a feeling we could get somewhere for under 1000
as "bad" as junkyard parts sound, it is the easiest way to get OEM parts, period. Not to mention they are significantly cheaper.
I have built 5 or so sets of swap axles, each pair took me less than 5 hours, which involved me waking up, going to the junkyard and buying everything, then coming home and assembling in 30-40 minutes.
Also, the Porche axles can be easily modified, and you can get stock ones in the $150 each range.. So... Toss a set of adapters together and I have a feeling we could get somewhere for under 1000
I see that you're trying to save people money, but come on man, show some respect. The least you could have done was send that information in a PM. I would hate it if I had a for sale thread on some item that I was having produced, and the same person kept coming in and trying to take sales away from me.
But in the end, its just an internet forum that is open to all posts, and posts like yours just help shape opinions that we form.
Thanks for taking time out of your schedule to help provide a service for the Fiero community fierox! I doubt I'll ever create a beast that would require those axles, but if I did, you can bet that I would want them built right by a professional, rather than me try my hand at making them myself out of junkyard parts.
I see that you're trying to save people money, but come on man, show some respect. The least you could have done was send that information in a PM. I would hate it if I had a for sale thread on some item that I was having produced, and the same person kept coming in and trying to take sales away from me.
But in the end, its just an internet forum that is open to all posts, and posts like yours just help shape opinions that we form.
Thanks for taking time out of your schedule to help provide a service for the Fiero community fierox! I doubt I'll ever create a beast that would require those axles, but if I did, you can bet that I would want them built right by a professional, rather than me try my hand at making them myself out of junkyard parts.
Well making them out of junkyard parts is a fun experience right? Until they break on you of course...
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06:00 PM
Pete Matos Member
Posts: 2291 From: Port St. Lucie, Florida Registered: Jan 2010
I see that you're trying to save people money, but come on man, show some respect. The least you could have done was send that information in a PM. I would hate it if I had a for sale thread on some item that I was having produced, and the same person kept coming in and trying to take sales away from me.
But in the end, its just an internet forum that is open to all posts, and posts like yours just help shape opinions that we form.
Thanks for taking time out of your schedule to help provide a service for the Fiero community fierox! I doubt I'll ever create a beast that would require those axles, but if I did, you can bet that I would want them built right by a professional, rather than me try my hand at making them myself out of junkyard parts.
While I agree that he is kinda rubbing FieroX on this a little bit, this is NOT a for sale thread in the Mall. This is a general chat posting and therefor anyone can post on this and input their opinions or ideas about things related if they so choose. Honestly I think Darkhorizon has a lot to input here as he was able to build one of the fastest Fiero's on here with what appears to be a pretty low cost. I for one salute that kind of ingenuity and would love to know half of what he knows about this stuff so I can NOT screw up my own build. These axles are a great way to get one of the weak links of the Fiero's drivetrain fixed and they obviously look great and are professionally made from new parts but not everyone here can afford them and Dark has been trying to input ways to get GOOD axles for less money and even provided ideas that might actually help FieroX with future products so I do not think it a bother. Wish one of these guys lived down the street so I could get a ride in one of these badass fiero's.... THAT would be cool!! Peace
Im not worried about darkhorizons input. This isnt a for sale thread, its just a feeler to see what I need to produce as far as a marketable product. I know there are a lot of guys on here that will go to salvage yards and find the parts they need and build axles that will work. But there are also a lot of guys that dont have the time to spend messing with it and would rather have a brand new product that will just drop in. Thats what I am here for and thats what I do at my shop. I have been working on a solution because I have received a lot of PM's and emails over the last two years that I have been selling my mounts asking for an axle solution. It has just been in the past few months that I have had the resources to get the axles built.
Everyone knows DH is the guy to talk to about getting advice on a solution on the cheap. He does have the methods of making a car go fast cheap. But in our business we have a saying that goes "Cheap Fast Reliable, pick 2". Thats the way it always works.
BTW, I may of discovered a little more cost effective solution that I will find out more on tomorrow. I will keep everyone updated.
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06:39 PM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
It may seem like I have no interest in possible outcomes here either. I would be mildly interested in some new style axles if they were available at a price that is easier than changing OEM ones in 30 minutes.
Simple fact is, Ryan may be making some parts of the axle stronger, but the most commonly broken part of any of these axles is the shaft itself, or the outer tripot. The extra strength is being put into the wrong areas, that will do people with proper axle geometry no good.
