I started a "want to buy" thread in the Mall back on 9/20/11 titled "WTB Fiero nose badges"

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/058871.html

My opening post stated, "I need four nose badges. They don't have to be perfect but I do need the mounting base with them."

I got a PM from member John 316 stating that he had four or more badges that he could sell to me. I responded to him stating that they didn't have to be nice, and I didn't care which script was across the top of them. He described what he had and I told him what I needed. We agreed on a price for four badges shipped.

What he sent me was three badges and one black base from a nose badge. He says when people request badges, they are usually only refering to the base and that is all that matters. I suppose if I wanted an engine, he'd send an oil pan since that is the bottom and the engine is useless without it therefore it must be the most important part!

So Forum Members, what is a badge? Is it the decorative part with the logo, is it the base, or is it the combination of the two?

When my original post said "I need the mounting base with them" what do you suppose the "them" was? Was I unclear in any way as to what I wanted and expected?

You be the judges and I'll agree with the majority.

Jonathan

I certainly would expect more than just the base.

x2

I went and looked when you first posted... I had 2 badges and 3 bases, The guy is a crook!

I have alerted John316 to this thread by PM. It will be interesting to see if he's as sure of himself about this issue while being publicly debated.

Jonathan

Welcome to the world of American high school graduates who exemplify a mind numbing ability to comprehend written English. You had it right, your nemesis is a neotard.

I agree with you that it was pretty clear you were looking for the entire badge, and it's definitely a no-go on what you received. But I will say this, I've bought a bunch of parts off of John316, and all transactions went smooth. He made me good deals on the parts I ordered from him.

quote Originally posted by Hulki U. My-BFF: I agree with you that it was pretty clear you were looking for the entire badge, and it's definitely a no-go on what you received. But I will say this, I've bought a bunch of parts off of John316, and all transactions went smooth. He made me good deals on the parts I ordered from him.

All I asked of him was a partial refund and to admit that he misrepresented what he sent. His response was, "I am not sure what you are wanting from me but a refund is out of the question." And, "You were not very clear at all. Maybe next time you should be a little bit more clear."

Jonathan

Then let him make this right post haste.

Man you bought a lot of badges. What are you doing with all of them?

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 10-16-2011).]

quote Originally posted by IMSA GT: Man you bought a lot of badges. What are you doing with all of them?

I'm not allowed to tell...But I can't wait for the bragging to start!!!

Jonathan

Cross him off your buyer's list..thanks for the warning. I still have an original nose badge still in the box and it came mounted to the base as one unit. I found it in my small Fiero parts box the other day.

[This message has been edited by Old Lar (edited 10-17-2011).]

I got a PM response from John316:

"If I do not monitor it and do not chime in with my side does that mean I automatically lose? I hope you get what you need figured out."

Not only does he know about the sale situation, he knows about this thread and he still is thumbing his nose at the problem. Why would someone not fix a problem this small?

Jonathan

Awesome user name for being shady......

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11 Camaro SS/RS
86 Fiero GT
07 Suburban LT2
09 Avalanche LT3

quote Originally posted by pontiackid86: i'm sure i could fly a plane no problem.

Well maybe the John 3:16 name is just a contingency plan, hoping that if he does something wrong to people it will be overruled by his dependence on God's grace.

I remember seeing your original post in the mall. You post is rather clear if you read it correctly;

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: "I need four nose badges. They don't have to be perfect but I do need the mounting base with them."

The "They" you are referring to is the actual emblem itself, then after that you mentioned you "need the mounting base with them." Those two portions of the phrase, referring to the Fiero front emblem, means you need the entire emblem. If it were me, I would have just refunded you partially for that particular emblem (a fourth of whatever you paid). Considering it's really not hard to find used emblems, you'll probably be good. However, I wouldn't have made the mistake to begin with in sending you a partial emblem.

The only thing I would suggest is if next time you want to buy something in the Mall be VERY clear on what it is you want. It's easy for me and most others here to understand what you want, but there are those that may not get it entirely. Here's how I would have worded your want ad;

"I need four complete Fiero front emblems. The emblems do not have to be perfect and minor blemishes are acceptable, but I only prefer emblems that are complete with their mounting base intact. I will not accept just mounting bases or tops of emblems themselves."

You sometimes have to be INCREDIBLY descriptive with these sort of things unfortunately. Always state what it is you want, but also always state what you don't want - in full detail.

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1986 Fiero GT... with REALLY high mileage

The biggest thing that bothers me is that after what you said, he sent you three badges and a base. Now how can you get two seperate items and not realize that there should be four of each, and not 3 of one and 1 of another. It's not like you said I need a combination of *either* 4 badges or mounting bases.

Outside of that though I did just meet up with john316 a few days ago and got an engine from him, seemed like a nice guy at the time and as long as the engine is good I'd probably have dealt with him again if need be.

-Brandon

quote Originally posted by Fiero84Freak: The only thing I would suggest is if next time you want to buy something in the Mall be VERY clear on what it is you want. It's easy for me and most others here to understand what you want, but there are those that may not get it entirely. Here's how I would have worded your want ad; "I need four complete Fiero front emblems. The emblems do not have to be perfect and minor blemishes are acceptable, but I only prefer emblems that are complete with their mounting base intact. I will not accept just mounting bases or tops of emblems themselves." You sometimes have to be INCREDIBLY descriptive with these sort of things unfortunately. Always state what it is you want, but also always state what you don't want - in full detail.

Why should the majority have to cater to minority; meaning 99% of the ppl who read his original wording understood it... Kinda like stupid warning labels on thing like razor blades: "Caution, sharp item enclosed". No Shlt, it’s a razor blade, it’s supposed to be sharp... Or on a gas can: "WARNING, contents flammable"!!! I say let Natural Selection sort them out…

quote Originally posted by ALJR: Why should the majority have to cater to minority; meaning 99% of the ppl who read his original wording understood it... Kinda like stupid warning labels on thing like razor blades: "Caution, sharp item enclosed". No Shlt, it’s a razor blade, it’s supposed to be sharp... Or on a gas can: "WARNING, contents flammable"!!! I say let Natural Selection sort them out…

No I know & understand that completely, hence why I said in my original post that "it's easy for me and most others here to understand what you [the OP] want, but there are those that may not get it entirely." It's just sadly one of those things that very often has to be completely explain. Kind of like when you try to sell a non-running car, state explicitly in your ad that the car doesn't run about five times, and then still receive e-mails and phone calls asking "does the car run?" (this coming from experience unfortunately......).

This thread seems to be quickly taking a turn toward the Totally O/T section, and going political/religious.

But this is also not realy the best way to resolve your dispute. If you and the seller couldn't resolve your dispute amicably though e-mail/PM, then you need to step it up to the PayPal resolution system (or such system through however you paid, but presumably that was PayPal). It's quite obvious you aren't going to get any partial refund or peaceful resolution on this forum, so starting a thread about it doesn't really help you one way or the other. You'll still have your frustration, and only a thread full of people who agree or disagree with it (or something completely different), to show for it in the end.

The whole COMPLETE thing is an emblem or badge. If you didnt get a base, all you got was in insert. If I order a badge/emblem I want the whole thing. If I only want the face part ill say ' insert '. Dealers sell complete ones, not parts and pieces of it. Ive ordered COMPLETE doors and yards have sent me a shell. I send them back. If I say I need a DOOR I need all of it with all the hardware unless I say something like it dont need to have a glass.

**This post was edited in an attempt to undo damage I may have caused from making a mistake in judging someone I thought I had done business with. It turns out I had not, and had this person confused with the person I had purchased something from, my apologies.**

Jonathon, I owe you an apology. When I saw your name, I went back and looked at my pm's and looked for who I bought the gas tank from. You and I had an pm exchange about parts, and your pm was right below the one I got from the guy I bought the tank from. I looked at the title and didn't follow over to the name correctly, and mistakenly saw your name on his pm. My sincerest apologies to you and everyone else for the misrepresentation. The person that sold me a "88" tank's info is below.


----- Message Forwarded from 88 Racer -----
I have an 88 gas tank in excellent shape, including fuel pump and float for sale.

Located in Woodstock, Ga.

Make offer

Chuck

contact me direct @ chuck.willyard@xxxxxxx.xxx

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 10-18-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Hulki U. My-BFF: I agree with you that it was pretty clear you were looking for the entire badge, and it's definitely a no-go on what you received. But I will say this, I've bought a bunch of parts off of John316, and all transactions went smooth. He made me good deals on the parts I ordered from him.

I'm with Hulki on this... John316 has served me well. I just don't understand why this issue has persisted without resolution. PM me your address, I think I have a top half emblem I can mail you.

Heres the bottom line. Whether you say you want a logo, emblem, badge, hood ornament or whatever you want to call it, the Fiero emblem was not offered as a 2-part design. If it was then you could ask for the backing or insert portion separately. If I order a Fiero emblem/badge, it should be the whole thing.

There's no way he was confused - he flat-out ripped you off and knew he was doing it.

I did a search for his user name and neg'd him. We don't need that kind of pr*ck here blatantly ripping members off.

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Patrick W. Heinske -- LZeitgeist@aol.com

"There are two types of Fiero owners - those that have gotten ripped off by Toddster, and those who will get ripped off by Toddster."

quote Originally posted by mptighe: I don't know that it will help anything either way, but I bought a gas tank from this John 316 about a year ago. In my post I put that I was looking for a '88 tank because that's what year my car was. Well he said he had one, and assured me it was in perfect shape, so I bought it. The shop the car was at put it in and didn't say anything to me about condition. Bmwguru pulled the tank after he got the car a few months ago or so. Not only did the tank have rust, but it actually wasn't even a '88 tank. Basically this guy lied. I didn't say anything because I didn't find out until about 9 months later. I would NEVER consider buying anything from this guy again. Here's my thread so he won't come back and say I didn't specify. It's right in the title. I should have just gotten the stuff from Mstangs, I'm sure I would have gotten the right stuff. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/053463.html

This bumps it up a level... I mean to say the buyer wasnt clear on what he wanted was one thing...For some one to sell some one a Pre-87/88 tank saying it was an 87/ 88 is just down right not a mistake...Even if it was 9 months later I would have sent the seller a PM....

quote Originally posted by dobey: This thread seems to be quickly taking a turn toward the Totally O/T section, and going political/religious. But this is also not realy the best way to resolve your dispute. If you and the seller couldn't resolve your dispute amicably though e-mail/PM, then you need to step it up to the PayPal resolution system (or such system through however you paid, but presumably that was PayPal). It's quite obvious you aren't going to get any partial refund or peaceful resolution on this forum, so starting a thread about it doesn't really help you one way or the other. You'll still have your frustration, and only a thread full of people who agree or disagree with it (or something completely different), to show for it in the end.

Some times all you can do to make yourself feel a lil better is to vent...

quote Originally posted by ALJR: Some times all you can do to make yourself feel a lil better is to vent...

And this doesn't seem like one of those times… unless Boostdreamer waited too long to be able to resolve the dispute via paypal/credit/whatever. But hey, whatever, I'll probably end up with another neg vote for pointing someone in the right direction to solve their problems, just because it wasn't delivered along with whoever decided to disagree's favorite cake of the day.

quote Originally posted by dobey: And this doesn't seem like one of those times… unless Boostdreamer waited too long to be able to resolve the dispute via paypal/credit/whatever. But hey, whatever, I'll probably end up with another neg vote for pointing someone in the right direction to solve their problems, just because it wasn't delivered along with whoever decided to disagree's favorite cake of the day.

I don't think that's usually the case. I've read many of your posts, and usually they make sense on some level. However the way you deliver the point, with an adversarial stance, is usually taken as condescension. Maybe if you posted it in a lighter tone...? Coming from someone who has been in quite a few arguments on here, even if you're right people still neg you for arguing. I'm sure my bar, when it shows itself will have some red in it for that as well.

quote Originally posted by mptighe: I don't think that's usually the case. I've read many of your posts, and usually they make sense on some level. However the way you deliver the point, with an adversarial stance, is usually taken as condescension. Maybe if you posted it in a lighter tone...? Coming from someone who has been in quite a few arguments on here, even if you're right people still neg you for arguing. I'm sure my bar, when it shows itself will have some red in it for that as well.

My stance isn't adversarial. It is blunt and to the point. Granted a bunch of my negs are from getting sucked into TO/T, which is also lame, considering nothing in it remotely has anything to do with the purpose of the forum. If I was going around spreading statements of bigotry, or generally trashing threads, like some people on here do, it might make some sense. But that's not the case. Most of them are from pure and simple disagreement, and not from failing to add anything to the forum.

quote Originally posted by dobey: My stance isn't adversarial. It is blunt and to the point. Granted a bunch of my negs are from getting sucked into TO/T, which is also lame, considering nothing in it remotely has anything to do with the purpose of the forum. If I was going around spreading statements of bigotry, or generally trashing threads, like some people on here do, it might make some sense. But that's not the case. Most of them are from pure and simple disagreement, and not from failing to add anything to the forum.

Well, that's kind of what I said, only semantically different. a disagreement is adversarial in nature. When someone's overly adversarial (or disagrees too heavily) then people not even involved in the argument will throw negs just because they don't like all the arguing. No one ever accused you of not contributing (well, at least I haven't). Contrary to a lot of the other arguers, you actually throw out valid points and decent information, instead of just being critical. Again, I think it's the "delivery method" that people react to. Believe me, I'm not being a hypocrite, this is probably people's biggest beef with me as well.

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 10-17-2011).]

quote Originally posted by dobey: And this doesn't seem like one of those times… unless Boostdreamer waited too long to be able to resolve the dispute via paypal/credit/whatever. But hey, whatever, I'll probably end up with another neg vote for pointing someone in the right direction to solve their problems, just because it wasn't delivered along with whoever decided to disagree's favorite cake of the day.

I gave you a + not because of this Thread but from all the others where you have helped others out and overall helpful on the Forum. Plus I like that you are straight forward with what you have to say and not worried about stepping on toes....

quote Originally posted by LZeitgeist: There's no way he was confused - he flat-out ripped you off and knew he was doing it. I did a search for his user name and neg'd him. We don't need that kind of pr*ck here blatantly ripping members off.

I did exactly the same thing. His is not the kind of response to a problem that I expect to find here.

The negatives are the reason I posted this publicly. I even warned him that I would do so. He has PM'd me a couple of times about this thread but never mentioned a desire to come to the resolution table. I believe that open discussion about buyer/seller problems and the posibility of getting speed banned does a nice job of keeping honest people honest. And it shuts down questionable members who may lie, cheat, or run from problems.

Thank you all for your support and offers of parts. I appreciate your generosity. I have everything I need now. I don't expect John316 to make this right so I'll be making a report to PayPal. Thank you for that suggestion as well!

Jonathan

I feel like it is time I add to the topic. First off I have never sold anyone a gas tank that lives in Texas. Mptighe you might want to check and make sure you have not mistaken me with someone else. You must be mistaken. If you have not noticed Booststream has not entered any of our conversation into this thread telling you what our conversation was or how things took place. Passing judgement so quickly on just one persons point of view with out the other side is why these threads go on forever. I have sold many parts and made many mistakes. I have also lost a lot of money fixing my mistakes. I have went out of my way to ship items (which surprisingly none of the people I have sold $1000s to are not speaking up) to Canada, Mexico, Europe, and who knows where just to make people happy.

Basic steps I always go through before selling an item (these are the things Booststream is not mentioning). First of course I find the person. Next see what they want to pay for it and if it is reasonable make an offer. Next I OFFER THEM PICTURES (which Booststream denied and did not apparently need). Then I ship. The buyer was a degenerate who wanted the cheapest crappiest ones I had. His statement not mine.

One more thing. 2 of the items that I shipped to Booststream were better than what he paid for as negotiated before with pricing on the items I was selling.

Before you judge so quickly. THINK..... Hmm maybe there is more to the story than it appears. Well if this kills my rating on the forum oh well. Booststream good luck with life and I wish you the best.

Thanks Jonathon

[This message has been edited by John316 (edited 10-18-2011).]

I bought from John316 an 88 beechwood seat belt part (that attaches to the floor) and had no problems. Smooth transaction and I'm from Canada.

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fierogt28

88 GT, Loaded, 5-speed.
88 GT, 5-speed. All original.

"Before you judge so quickly. THINK..... Hmm maybe there is more to the story than it appears".....

Then clear it up, now.

[This message has been edited by weaselbeak (edited 10-18-2011).]

quote Originally posted by John316: I OFFER THEM PICTURES (which Booststream denied and did not apparently need). The buyer was a degenerate who wanted the cheapest crappiest ones I had. His statement not mine.

Pictures would have prevented this whole thing

quote Originally posted by John316: One more thing. 2 of the items that I shipped to Booststream were better than what he paid for as negotiated before with pricing on the items I was selling.

Sounds like he was clear about what he wanted and if you sent him something better than what was agreed upon that's not an excuse to downgrade another part.

One thing I’ve learned is to ask for pictures. (as above, this never would have happened with pictures) Doesn’t matter what it is, ask for a picture. I’ve gotten screwed more than once on here because I trusted the person would be honest and not sell me crap, but unfortunately not everybody on here is 100% honest. A picture is worth a 1000 words and may save you a 1000 bucks.
Also be VERY wary of blurry pictures, good chance it’s blurry for a reason. This day and age there’s no reason for blurry or out of focus pictures.

Also remember your idea of a great part might not be what I would consider great. One mans junk is another mans treasure and vise-versa.

Buyer be ware, especially when buying/selling on the internet.

Edit to add; hope you guys work this out, sounds like a missunderstanding or simple mistake and not a reason to tarnish a buyer or sellers reputation...just my $ .02

[This message has been edited by DLCLK87GT (edited 10-18-2011).]

Nah, I will pass. Not really worth the time and/or effort that comes with it. Besides, my reputation is what it is. Still as this conversation is going on I am selling parts.

The seller has his chance to tell his side of the story here and avoids details. If he wants to clear the air, the opportunity is available to him. If he chooses not to specifically give his version of the transaction, many forum members will assume that the man is a criminal. This forum is a powerful place to share your experiences with suppliers and sellers of Fiero parts. Loyde of Fastfieros was literally forced off ( or bowed out) of this site when his questionable dealings werquestioned and discussed.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, ZZP Intercooler, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

I agree Dennis but unlike Lloyde this is not my life. I know what is right and wrong. That is good enough for me. What will it solve if I spend countless hours proving I am right? Is that going to win over the people that have already posted and made up there mind. Probably not.