Hello Everyone!

I've been lurking here for quite some time. I used to post fairly regularly back in 2003 but I've been mostly out of fieros since then. Recently the bug bit me again and I decided to jump on the silver choptop that was for sale in the mall a few months ago. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/060659.html This was the homebrew choptop that F355Spider built. I bought it with the intention of taking it to car shows this summer with my father at my place in Maine.


Anyway so fastforward to Monday when my car transport broker finally located a carrier to take the car from Alabama to Scarborough Maine. The carrier picked up the car on Monday evening with the intent to deliver it to Maine by Wednesday (which seemed really fast) On Tuesday I get a call from my father saying that the truck the fiero was on blew a tire and then the carrier rolled over with the fiero on board. Fortunately nobody was hurt. As you can see in the pictures below the fiero was in the lower center of the trailer. From what I hear four of the seven cars on the trailer stayed on the carrier. The fiero being one of them. I have not seen pictures of the car since the accident, however I have heard that the windshield is broken and there's something wrong with the back of the car. The driver wasn't too clear when I spoke with him. He was clearly rattled by the situation as anyone would be.

Today I spoke with the insurance company who insures the cargo being transported. I have the policy number and claim number. After being transferred a few times I was put in contact with the person overseeing the claim and she said that their policy only covers the blue book value of the car. If the car is considered a total loss. Well, we all know the blue book value of an 87 fiero gt is basically nothing. Obviously a turbocharged choptop fiero cannot be replicated for bluebook value, and fortunately I can prove that I just bought this car and I can prove what I paid for it.

At this point I don't know if it will be considered a total loss or not, it doesn't take too much body work to blow through the bluebook value of the car. If there's frame damage forget it.

So really I'm just looking for any advice anyone can give me on what I can do or what I should do next.

[This message has been edited by Thrillhouse (edited 06-20-2012).]

honestly you don't have enough info yet other then the windshield. It could just be a cracked bumper. Wait to see it first and if it is totaled go through your insurance first and let them fight it out with the other company. Thats what I have done twice with my BMW's and booth cars were taken care of.

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1985 Fiero GT 4speed 1986 Fiero GT
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that is a great car, and congratulations on your purchase. It was a show stopper around here for years.

What a terrible thing to happen... this has to be immensly uncommon.
Best of luck to you... You may have to go to small claims to get full satisfaction here...

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<---- did you buy Cliff a beer?
......................................................www.northtexasfieroclub.org

quote Originally posted by Thrillhouse: .... said that their policy only covers the blue book value of the car. If the car is considered a total loss. Well, we all know the blue book value of an 87 fiero gt is basically nothing. Obviously a turbocharged choptop fiero cannot be replicated for bluebook value, and fortunately I can prove that I just bought this car and I can prove what I paid for it.

I think you're going to find that you will run into a problem with this, and I don't know the particulars of the insurance company for the carrier and your policy, but I'll put in some input.

The issue will be as you said that blue book value considers value in how the car originally is manufacturered. Your purchase price however is not going to reflect a realistic value to an insurance company if you simply attempt to use it as a means by which to justify a car's value, as you have presented your current case. The problem is that many people daily make very poor buying decisions and over pay for vehicles, and honestly I can see where this would fall into the same category in regards to an insurance company if you simply buy a modified car and insure it as is.

Don't take what I'm saying the wrong way. I'm not saying you made a poor choice and I do understand the value of the car.

What I'm implying is that typically to ensure a particular value of a vehicle for a specialty build, it has to be properly assessed for a value and then that agreed upon value of the car insured. I'm making a guess that this proceedure was not followed with the car. This is why you see many serious collectors with heavily modified specialty vehicles always claim agreed or assessed value of a car. They brought an expert in to determine the true value of the car as modified in it's current form.

What you probably should have done - before you even bought the car - was first either pay to have it assessed for value or ensured it had/has been assessed. Then when you obtain an agreed upon value of the vehicle, locate a courier that would be willing to transport the car with said agreed upon value.

In the end you would have paid a good deal more, obviously for an expert to determine value and for a potentially higher quality courier transporting the car for a higher value. Now it seems that there is a potential to pay A WHOLE LOT more thought, especially if the damage extends beyond basic cosmetics. I have to say this is a terribly bad thing to happen and I can't see that happening in a frequent manner. My hope is that indeed it is simple cosmetics that can be addressed easily without paying a lot of money. I guess you'll find out exactly what is wrong with it when you are able to look everything over and you go to start the car (cars typically don't do so well when turned on their sides or upside down... ...).

I will say a final note - The above I outlined is one thing I'm afraid is happening in the Fiero world with extreme frequency. Many people are constructing heavily customized vehicles on Fieros and then just insuring them as-is. A potential buyer needs to understand if you do this and the car is subsequently wrecked or damaged, value is based on the original build, which for Fieros typically mean you get chump change (if you're lucky). This can be a potentially bad problem with kit and replica cars built on Fieros, and is more so becoming an issue with buyers whom purchase Fieros with swapped drivetrains. Beware of ones being sold that read "cheap to insure as it's a Fiero and insured as such." That can cause serious issues. You really need to let your insurance company know EVERYTHING serious that you do to your car.

The value of the car is what someone is willing to pay for it, what did you pay for the car.. that is what it is worth.
First get the car in your possession then go from there.

Welcome to the Forum! What a way to start......

Because you purchased the car recently and it was never used by you, I think you have a good argument that this is insured goods, and there is no depreciation (blue book) involved. Other cars on the carrier will not be in that same situation.....so it makes sense that the insurance company cannot cover what the owner paid for the car a few years ago. But your car is different and I am sure you can find a Lawyer that agrees with that logic.

I just spoke with the driver again. He's calmed down and was a lot more coherent than yesterday. I doubt that the car will be considered a total loss. The only damage to the car according to him was that the front windshield was cracked, the pass side window was cracked and the spoiler was cracked. It stayed on the trailer which is really good. I'm not sure how long it layed on its' side but it would have been not more than few hours. The car is sitting right way up now, so I'm hoping that all the fluids and everything will drain back down to where they should be.

So the good news is, I doubt that it will be considered a total loss.

pull all the plugs before anyone trys to turn it over.. oil from the crank case will hyd the cyl. if it stays there.. and it will

find out what archie charges for a chop top since he runs a business that does these modifications it will be the standard value of the cars modifications only including the looks ie the chop top. now on to the engine mods..... this is where it can get tricky. get a hold of F355Spider see if he can come up with reciepts for the parts he put into it. when dealing with the government or any thing like that you need official documentation.

im assuming you payed 8k (seems worth it to me) obviously you payed for the labor although forged pistons for the 3.4 are $750 so theres a nice chunk right there. i can see you getting at least the parts cost out of it but it might be hard to get the full value. id fight till you cant fight anymore to get the full value you payed (if its totaled) and then offer to buy the wreck from the insurance company for scrap value :P dont let them know nothing is unsalvagable especially when it comes to us fiero lovers. if you play your cards right you may come out ahead and if you dont want to put the body work into makign it a good car again post it in the mall

After doing some research tonight I was actually rather surprised to see the NADA book value for a high retail 1987 Fiero GT V6/AC to be at 5300. The choptop certainly meets the descriptors of a high retail car according to their website. Perhaps I won't have as much of a battle as I thought to get them to totally pay for the car if they decide to total it. At the very least its a more reasonable independent valuation of the car that could be used as a basis for determining their final payout when needed.


I was also able to purchase a set of F355Spider choptop glass from a forum member here. Things seem to be looking up.

I should have some pictures of the car tomorrow which I'll post up.

I wonder what the suspension and cradle looks like. They definitely weren't made to handle that kind of stress.

Wow !!

You had to be sitting there waiting for Ashton Kusher to appear after you got the call, right ....??

I'd say there is a good chance it wont be much worse then what the driver has told you. If it was strapped down properly it should be fine, but then what caused the damage?

Wish the best of luck to you. I'd probably be driving to where the car is right now if I was in your situation. Even if I had to call in sick for a few days. It wouldn't be a lie though, I would be sick...

As you know, don't sign anything that's not a pay-off to your satisfaction. With that said, what did the fine print on your contract say in regards to the transporter's liability?

Man that poor car has had it's bad luck! first the front end breaks now this!
sounds like voodo

I would recommend finding a reputable auto appraiser and have them do a retroactive appraisal on the car. They can appraise it for the condition it was in prior to the crash. I had had 2 friends in similar situations and this worked for both of them. Since it is a custom auto the transport company should have to accept this as the "book" value of the car.
Good luck with the rebuild.

When I insure my Fieros I always use a collector car insurance company that will insure a custom car for its full value. In your case you did not have this but can demand the full price of the car that you paid. You have the bill of sale. present it and demand the full value. The carriers insurance should cover this UNLESS he was not insured to transport collector vehicles. In this case you will need to sue them for the full value of the automobile in question. Present your bill of sale and see what happens.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
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I just got some pics today. So what do you guys think? Will it get totaled?

I'm worried that there is frame damage. Look at the driver's side door, the way the glass looks like it fits in in the front but not in the back. I'm not sure if the door is ajar or not. Also it appears that its not the passenger side window, rather its the passenger side quarter window.

Anyone know where I could get them?

When they said the passenger side window I figured it was the actual window, not the quarter window.

These pics are rather hard to see. The ones I have are a bit larger size, I've got to run out right now but I will work on uploading them a bit later.

[This message has been edited by Thrillhouse (edited 06-22-2012).]

short of frame damage its not totaled. even if the value is blue book. the quarter panels are around $200, the windshield is around $250 through safelite and you decklid/fastback only has a corner damaged but thats probably the most costly as it needs to be repaired and then painted. id estimate 1100$ for the decklid/fastback

so 1650$ isnt horrible IMO

i would like to add that when you get the car find out where and how they strapped it down. and then check extensivly for damage in those areas. some car haulers chain directly to the frame and the subframe is meant as load baring and is not ment for tensile strength.. fine tooth comb my friend is what i would recommend.

[This message has been edited by Niterrorz (edited 06-22-2012).]

Thank you guys for your responses so far.

I'm looking very carefully at the driver side picture that I have. It would appear that the rear clip is now preventing the door from closing. I e-mailed the yard where the car is to see if they can confirm. If this is the case then there is undeniably frame damage.

Word is that the insurance company is only going to be looking at the car on Monday.

I agree somethings wrong on the drivers side. The doors not shut and the filler appears pulled out. Looks just from the pictures, that left and right sides need painted again and the decklid/ spoiler. Otherwise the silver paint is unlikely to match. Then you need the quarter window and windshield. Hopefully, none of the fluid that ran down the body is brake fluid. It eats paint and plastics, and soaks down into the grain. Usually on Corvettes where brake fluid soaks a panel I replace the panel. If you paint over it, several months down the road it can seep back thru the paint again. Good luck. Even if they total it, they usually give you the option of buying it back for a paltry sum. If they total it and keep it, they only get a few hundred bucks from a wrecking yard and a Fiero being plastic, may not even get that.

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88 GT, 3800SC, Getrag 5sp. 12" Vette Rotors,Custom stuff done

That sucks big time. I'm not even going to let Gianina know about this she always loved that car. Looks like it has gone through a lot in the past years.

7K + in damage easy
4k in paint 3k in body work plus any other hidden damage

It has poly and coil-overs, brake kit, side windows are good and it is a chop. if they total it try to buy back if you can. someone could rebuild the car.

Mike I tried to text you about this when I saw it. I wish I would have had the cash to buy it when it was for sale.

quote Originally posted by Marine1981: I wish I would have had the cash to buy it when it was for sale.

X2... That's the second time I've not been able to gather the scratch to buy that car.

As F355spider mentioned, if they DO total it. Do your best to buy the car back from them. Most insurance companies will usually sell it back for scrap value. If they say no, then haggle with them, and try to force them to work it out. The car is worth nothing more to them that literally the scrap value, nothing more, so they have nothing to lose selling it to you for the scrap value price.

Say you get $6,000 hypothetically for totaling it, they may sell it back to you for $500. Ending up with the car, and $5,500 in cash.

With that hypothetical $5,500 you can either try to fix the car with the money, buy a different one, and part out this one, sell it to someone else ect ect... lots of options...

Oh absolutely I plan on buying it back from the insurance company if I have to. I'd really rather not part this car out. Its way too nice. It really depends on the actual condition of the car and what the numbers come out to be. If it just ends up costing too much to fix then I'd rather just sell it to someone who has the skills and knowledge to do some of the work themselves. Also if I get stuck with a salvage title for the car then I'd also rather not throw more good money after bad.

But like I said no matter what I'm going to take delivery of this car.

The insurance company is supposed to appraise it tomorrow, so I should have more info then.

I don't think the door is closed is all.
No frame damage.
If the driver had it tied in properly it can't twist without the trailer itself twisting badly or having side impact damage.

quote Originally posted by Indiana_resto_guy: I don't think the door is closed is all. No frame damage. If the driver had it tied in properly it can't twist without the trailer itself twisting badly or having side impact damage.

I really hope you're right. The car was strapped down on all four wheels and chained to the frame. Like I said it stayed on the trailer. It definitely suffered quite an impact as the rear clip is cracked on both sides without any visible (from the body panels) point of impact.

I'll keep everyone posted with details and pictures. Again thank you all for your info and advice so far.

Paint and labor charges are very expensive. If the insurance company goes strictly by blue book, it will probably be considered a total loss. For example, my Subaru got the corner of the bumper scratched by someone in a parking lot. The repair cost was $800 for repainting the bumper and replacing the tail light. The bumper wasn't even replaced.

Good luck man. I know how bad this sucks. Nothing like having your new toy broken before you get to play with it! Also, the door glass fits like I have seen on alot of those chop tops.

quote Originally posted by skuzzbomer: X2... That's the second time I've not been able to gather the scratch to buy that car.

X3... I loved that car. Oh man I hate to see what happened to it. I hope it can be saved.

I spoke with the insurance adjuster again today, she was rather snooty with me. She said she didn't know when they would be looking at the cars and she told me 'well there are seven cars that need to be looked at'. Yeah well, its been a week.

I called and spoke to her supervisor and very nicely expressed my concern about the length of time its taken to be looked at, the fact that they didn't know when they would be looked at, and furthermore that the car is sitting outside with a cracked windshield and an open door which could cause water damage to the interior.

I also called down to the yard where the car is located. The guy there said the appraiser came by today and looked at all seven cars. He also said he thought the door was just open but he wasn't 100% sure on that.

Give him a call http://www.v8archie.com/ , Maybe he will rebuild it for you. Make the Ins Carrier pay for it. I bet he will give you a quote.

Since blue book only goes back 20 years, it makes since that they didn't total out your car. Though you should always get custom cars appraised. I understand you hadn't even got to sit in it yet, but for anyone else out there...

quote Originally posted by hercimer01: Give him a call http://www.v8archie.com/ , Maybe he will rebuild it for you. Make the Ins Carrier pay for it. I bet he will give you a quote.

LOL......Funny **** there....

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: LOL......Funny **** there....

I figured someone would see the irony in this comment...

Did the door glass survive undamaged? That stuff is fairly rare you know.