I know we have covered how the Fiero name came about several times. I have never accepted that the Fiero name was taken from the so called Italian word to mean proud.

To me that was just the Marketing story and many with GM stuck to it.

I have always taken the side that at the last minute they had to change the name from Peguses to something else hence the hood emblem still having the flying horse.

The other fact that is never explained was that the name Fiero was used in the late 60's on a Firebired Aero Concpet car. The name then was taken from Firebird and Aero combined into Fiero. The name rights were still held by Pontiac at the time it was applied to the Fiero not long before it was put into production.

Here is a quote I found on one of the Fiero mugs Pontiac offered in 1984. The 4 mugs had 4 statments from Pontiac brass on facts on the car. Here is the one I found of interest that tends to supports my theory.

The mug reads.

"It's official, Pontiac's 1984 P-car will be called the Fiero! This exciting name is a combination of two important Pontiac elements-- Fire and Aero...." W.E. Hoglund, Pontiac General Manager.

I just wanted to pass this along as I found it interesting that this was not the same story line some of the others took and it fits with the fact that that is what the name ment 15 years before when Pontiac used it.

This is not to start an anrgument but I just found it interesting that even those in Pontiac did not all use the same story.

I though it meant
Fire In Every Red One.

I thought it meant...
Fire Inside Everyone Run Out

How about......Finest Imaginative Exciting Radical Outstanding

Finest American-built mid-engine sports car.
Imaginative concept & detailing.
Exciting and economical to operate.
Radical space frame design with Enduraflex body panels.
Outstanding to own and appreciate a piece of Pontiac history.

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Now new owner of a Black TTop 88 Fiero GT and owner of a Silver 88 Fiero GT. Also a second time owner of an 85 Fiero GT. Bought my first fully loaded Red Fiero GT new in 1985. Fiero's are Fabulous, Fix'em and have Fun! Note, Avatar picture is Mr. Bean (not me, ha ha).

Rather interesting.

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Thank for the sig. Bobadoofunk
1984 White Fiero Sport Coupe (Juliet) in restoration
1988 Red Fiero Standard Coupe (Bella) in restoration
1990 Black Buick Reatta (Noir)
2002 White Chevy Impala base(Haylie)

quote Originally posted by 87antuzzi: I though it meant Fire In Every Red One.

quote Originally posted by 1984whitesc: Rather interesting.

Yup, since the White ones burn as well..................

[This message has been edited by VikingRedBaron (edited 07-04-2012).]

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: This exciting name is a combination of two important Pontiac elements-- Fire and Aero....[/b].

I guess the original meaning of the name became less exciting when the 84 Dukes started catching fire.

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My World of Wheels Winners (Click on links below)

3.4L Supercharged 87 GT and Super Duty 4 Indy #163

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 07-04-2012).]

what? pontac made these? thought nssan made the fero.... wtf?!!!! lol jk

Pontiac General Sales Manager.

The back of the mug reads: "The entire Fiero project, from concept to reality, has been a truly innovative endeavor.... Fiero has a matchless style that is all its--it is unmistakably a Pontiac...." W.W. Lane, Pontiac General Sales Manager.

Pontiac Chief Engineer.

The back of the mug reads: "As the Fiero story unfolds, you'll see the logic of everything we did. There are no gimmicks....technology wrapped in Fiero is absolutely the highest in General Motors...." J.J. Wetzel, Pontiac Chief Engineer.

Pontiac General Manager.

The back of the mug reads: "It's official, Pontiac's 1984 P-car will be called the Fiero! This exciting name is a combination of two important Pontiac elements-- Fire and Aero...." W.E. Hoglund, Pontiac General Manager.

Fiero Plant Manager.

The back of the mug reads: "Never in the history of Pontiac Motor Division have we had a total workforce which has proven it-self so capable of producing a high quality car as the Fiero...." E.D. Schaefer Fiero Plant Manager.





http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rar...up-Lot-/390433579157

Italian words do not all have a straight forward English translation. The word Countach has no direct translation other than it means similar to a wolfwhistle as a sound but more of an imagnative sound like whaaaar.

Fiero means brave loyal and proud and more it is the all these qualities in one word.

quote Originally posted by Niterrorz: what? pontac made these? thought nssan made the fero.... wtf?!!!! lol jk

Everyone knows Ford made the Fiero...1st-ish
Wink wink nudge nudge

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_3000ME

[This message has been edited by Pappy (edited 07-06-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Australian: The fire and areo comment sounds like a total guess when put on spot. If not Italian a forehead slapping moment.

Then explain why Pontiac used the name in 1968? Did they just guess then? It was not Italian the first time it was used,

The fact is Pontiac owned the rights to Fiero and they needed a name fast. GM chooses names owned by them as it can take a long period of time to gain the legal rights.

While the story of picking the name out of a book has been used I feel it was good marketing and a managment team that stuck to their story as a name like Fiero just does not get used by a company twice by chance,

My thoughts have always been that they never were telling the full story. Good marketing never does.

It may have been good they did not push the Fire Aero angle with the way things went as it could have made bad press even worse, Imagine if they had called it Fire Am etc?

Anyway I just never bought the contrived story that they just found the name in the book when some of us remember a Pontiac show car years earlier that used the same name. Also knowing the work and money it takes to gain the rights to a name the official story just did not jive either.

The real mystery that has never really been explained is why they never stuck with the Peguses name? What happened or who rejected it so late in the game the nose emblem was not changed?

There is still may mysterys to the Fiero and many we will never hear explained as the people who built the car are getting older and no on has ever done a book that has set the whole story straight. The Fiero book we have is a sanitized GM version that tells just what they want. I would love to see a complete book as it not only would set the story right it also would be a great case study on how disfunctional GM was even back in the late 70's and early 80's.

Just look how poorly GM and Pontiac worked together and how it compromised the Fiero. Look at how Chevy and the Vette team did all they could to kill the car in the end. See how it took years for GM to agree to show the 1990 GT as there were so many hard feelings at GM with manangment and unions that even John Middlebrook pulled the car at the last min from the Fiero show at the headquarters.

There is a greater deeperr story to be told that may never get told if it is not recorded.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 07-06-2012).]

Please don't take my comments as a personal attack, but I believe if you're going to start a conspiracy theory about something, you've got to be able to withstand some scrutiny. These are my observations:

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: The fact is Pontiac owned the rights to Fiero and they needed a name fast.

Where have you read that "they needed a name fast"? They had lots of names to which they owned the rights (Pegasus, Fiamma, Sprint, P3000, Sunfire, Firebird XP, etc)

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: My thoughts have always been that they never were telling the full story. Good marketing never does.

What would be the purpose in lying about how they came up with the name? What would there be to gain from such a tactic?

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: Anyway I just never bought the contrived story that they just found the name in the book

It wasn't just some book. Gary Witzenburg writes that John Schinella was leafing through an Italian dictionary after the name Fiamma was turfed by the Dealer Council, when he found the word Fiero. Just because the name may have been suggested earlier in the sixties for another car doesn't preclude this version of how the name was chosen or found for the Fiero. My guess is that if they could have liinked the name to a historical show car to show some lineage, they would have.

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: The real mystery that has never really been explained is why they never stuck with the Peguses name? What happened or who rejected it so late in the game the nose emblem was not changed?

Changed the nose emblem to what? Why do you feel that they should have changed the emblem? Jon Albert designed it when the name Pegasus was being bantered about as an evolution to the Firebird's flaming chicken emblem. How would you depict the word "Proud"... why not with a great flying horse?

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: Look at how Chevy and the Vette team did all they could to kill the car in the end.

Perhaps, but in the end it was the high insurance rates, a market flooded with two seater competition, and the engine fires that killed the car. Nothing Chevy or the Corvette team had anything to do with.

I like the Spanish translation:
" fierce , ferocious "

quote Originally posted by Bloozberry: Please don't take my comments as a personal attack, but I believe if you're going to start a conspiracy theory about something, you've got to be able to withstand some scrutiny. These are my observations: Perhaps, but in the end it was the high insurance rates, a market flooded with two seater competition, and the engine fires that killed the car. Nothing Chevy or the Corvette team had anything to do with.

#1 the Peguses name was chosen and then replaced later per the the Witzenburg book. It pointed out that it was too late to change the emblem. I did confirm this with man who did the design of the emblem when I had him authenticate my 1990 emblems.

#2 Simple! Good Marketing is a good story. What better to promote you dug the name out of some obscure book while in a late night meeting and claim the name is Italian. It sounds a lot better vs saying you owned the rights to the name and you are recyling the name from an old Firebird show car. [which is true and there is enough documentation and photos to prove there was a Fiero Show car in 1968]

#3 The odds of just going through a dictionary and Finding the word Fiero which just happens to be owned by GM as a registered name. Ok what are the odds? Fiero is not just one of those names that just falls out infront of you everyday prior to production. It is nice to dream but GM just does not work this way. The Fiero also was rooted in GM engineering as a proposal for a V6 mid engine Vette too. GM engineering shopped it to Chevy and was rejected but when Pontiac was looking to lower the cowl of the car it was offered to Pontiac then. This is a well covered story too as Pontiac and the Vette people did not want this one out either. It is documented in the book Inside the Corvette by Dave Mclelland retired lead engineer on the Vette.

#4 The car was to have been called the Peguses hence the Flying horse emblem. The odds are given the time they would have changed it since the Peguses horse really had nothing to do with the car. It also was a good design and that did help make a case to keep it. Either way it has been documented they did not change it as it was too late to get a new emblem out. That is what Pontiac stated not me.

#5 all your points played a part but the fact is the Fiero pissed off a lot of folks at GM. Pontiac did not break rules the smashed them to get the car built counter to being ordered to cancel the car several times.
I have been lucky enough to be with know one of the brand managers at GM that was in the Fiero program when it was killed. It confirmed that there were many at GM that wanted the car killed no matter what Pontiac did.

It was outlined to me that Chevy had the greatest interest in the cars being canceled. I never believed the Vette guys were behind it but I have gotten the story from two Fiero team memebers that stated that they were behind it. At the time the Vette was making a business case for a new car and sales were not good. They feared that a cheaper as fast Fiero would put there car in jepoady. The Vette had been on the bubble several times and escaped to a new model. They have to prove they can turn a profit or they would not get approved. The Vette counter to what some feel does not get a free ride.

The folks from Chevy pointed out many of your points on why the car should die but the greatest they hit was the plant was way under capacity and not profitable as it was. Pontiac has played the game with hopes of the GM 80 FWD F body being brought in the plant to make up the capacity of the plant. Once the GM 80 was canceled there was no other product that could be moved there easily and if it was easy Chevy would make it difficult to do so. John Schinella said it best Chevy sells more cars so Chevy has more say over what happens.

I held the paperwork from the last meeting in my hands and read it. There was little chance that the car was going to make it out alive. Pontiac put up a fight but there was little they could do. The paperwork still is around and in the hands of a collector. I hope one day he can find a way to publish it.

Knowing insiders at GM often help you find things out or better understand what happens at GM. Sometimes it is so crazy it is hard to believe they lasted this long.

Note on the Witzenburg book. Gary is an old marketing guy and racer. He is a buddy of someone I know. He had worked for GM for many years as did his wife. He has aurthored many books for GM and Pontiac with GM's blessing. That means he tells the story the way GM wants it. He seldom ever drifts into the dirt or the issues with any of the cars or politics behind them. His books are very good and I have most of them but keep in mind he is only giving the GM approve points and not the whole disclosure.

This is where we need a book on the Fiero that tell the whole story and not just the censored verison. There are several of us here that could do this and I hope someday we could get our heads together to get a book that someone would publish out. It would clear up many of the myths and falsehoods out there.

It is like the old Lotus suspension myth. The truth per Tom Goad of Pontiac that GM designed the 88 suspension but Porsche engineering did the tuning on the front suspension turn in and scrub radius. Very few Fiero owners know this. It is also why the tailights that said Porsche Eater when lit up were ordered removed on the 2.9 Turbo GT prototype. They did not want to offend the people they were working with.

These odd facts are not limited to the Fiero. Things like the 04 GTO not getting hood scoops or split exhaust. Pontiac stated that they did not have time to get them ready. The truth is they did not have enough money to do them for the first year. Fred Simmons from Pontiac Motor Sport told me that right out. He said if we had the money we would do it now but there was nothing left of the budget. The GTO was done with little to no budget but Lutz was desperate to give Pontiac a RWD performance car and did what he could afford.

I would recomend reading Lutz's book Bean Counters VS Car Guys. It shows you just what he was up against in the 90's and it was bad even back to the 60's as pointed out in the book On a Clear Day You Can See GM from John Delorean. Both are great books and those at GM need to read them and learn from them.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 07-06-2012).]

These are all very interesting things you are saying, but even if the people you mention are willing to go on record, nothing makes their account of the story any more believable than the official GM version. The trouble is that the"truth" has as many different versions as there are people who witnessed the event. This "paperwork" you refer to of "the last meeting" would have to be a copy of the actual minutes of the meeting signed by the chairman and secretary on official GM letterhead to carry any weight.

But what controversy are you asking us to choose sides on? Whether the name Fiero was picked from a dictionary (which interestingly comes alphabetically after Fiamma, lending some element of truth), or whether the name was chosen from an old show car isn't exactly controversial. This is a question for which anyone who wasn't actually at the meetings will never know the answer with certainty. All we can do is speculate. Personally, if I had been in the business of fabricating white lies in the marketting department, I think using the name from a defunct show car would have been far more intriguing than the very mundane official version of some executive flipping through the dictionary. Again, what motive would anyone have for making up a story like that? What could possibly be gained?

If instead you're trying to uncover what role Chevrolet may have played in the Fiero's demise, then I wish you luck. Those boardroom discussions would have been company confidential, and everyone involved, either pro or anti-Fiero would have had their own agendas anyway. Both sides would have been vying for their jobs, and neither one's account of what happenend would have been any more believeable than the other's, unless of course you have official minutes.

As for the emblem, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. The car was tentatively going to be called Pegasus along with a half dozen other names, which were all dropped for various reasons in favor of Fiero. The Pegasus emblem survived, but so what? Are you trying to get to the bottom of why they dropped the name Pegasus?

quote Originally posted by Bloozberry: These are all very interesting things you are saying, but even if the people you mention are willing to go on record, nothing makes their account of the story any more believable than the official GM version. The trouble is that the"truth" has as many different versions as there are people who witnessed the event. This "paperwork" you refer to of "the last meeting" would have to be a copy of the actual minutes of the meeting signed by the chairman and secretary on official GM letterhead to carry any weight. But what controversy are you asking us to choose sides on? Whether the name Fiero was picked from a dictionary (which interestingly comes alphabetically after Fiamma, lending some element of truth), or whether the name was chosen from an old show car isn't exactly controversial. This is a question for which anyone who wasn't actually at the meetings will never know the answer with certainty. All we can do is speculate. Personally, if I had been in the business of fabricating white lies in the marketting department, I think using the name from a defunct show car would have been far more intriguing than the very mundane official version of some executive flipping through the dictionary. Again, what motive would anyone have for making up a story like that? What could possibly be gained? If instead you're trying to uncover what role Chevrolet may have played in the Fiero's demise, then I wish you luck. Those boardroom discussions would have been company confidential, and everyone involved, either pro or anti-Fiero would have had their own agendas anyway. Both sides would have been vying for their jobs, and neither one's account of what happenend would have been any more believeable than the other's, unless of course you have official minutes. As for the emblem, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. The car was tentatively going to be called Pegasus along with a half dozen other names, which were all dropped for various reasons in favor of Fiero. The Pegasus emblem survived, but so what? Are you trying to get to the bottom of why they dropped the name Pegasus?

Believe as you like.

It is what it is and if you accept it fine if not fine.

If you think someone can pull a name Fiero out of a Dictionary by chance and that GM just happened to own the rights to that name after it's use years earlier that is fine with me.

The key to this deal is it cost thousands of dollars to name a car. The research and legal fees can go into the tens of thousands of dollars and take months to years to complete. Putting a name on a car is not an easy, fast or cheap deal. Names too often get chosen just because they are on a list. This is more common than you think. Also they get rejected for some of the most petty reason you have ever seen. Banshee is a good example.

I have read the same story in the Fiero book....but per the Google English to Italian translator for Proud:
adjective
orgoglioso proud, lofty
fiero proud, fierce, bold, haughty, cruel, severe
superbo superb, proud, magnificent, haughty, arrogant, cavalier
splendido splendid, wonderful, superb, brilliant, proud

so it is true that the name was a combination of Fire and Aero, it still does mean proud or fierce in Italian....

quote Originally posted by larini74: so it is true that the name was a combination of Fire and Aero, it still does mean proud or fierce in Italian....

Let me make a mug that says proud since your the archaeologist.

I'd have to say the big difference here is how the pronounced the name of the car. Since it is pronounced as it is in Italian, Fiero, then I'd say GM can claim it's named after the Italian word. If they pronounced it "Fy-arrow", then they would have a hard time claiming the "proud" stance. Though this is not to say that the combination of the words fire and aero were not the bases for naming the car Fiero. That's just my thought.

Just a note that the original FIrebird Fiero was pernounced the same way back in 1968/69 as we did today.

Just for those who have never seen the original Firebird Fiero here is a photo.



The FIero name was applied in 1969 with a repaint and aero wheel covers along with a cut down wind screen and some aero effects. GM desgn was really starting to show aerodynamics on their show cars else where like the Aero Vette.

The car originally was based on a first gen F body Firebird and had a 400 CID V8 up front. In 1968 it was white with a red stripe.

As of now I have not seen anything or know of anyone who know if the car survived so it is safe to say this one was crushed years ago. It was more an Idea car for styling vs anything they were looking at production wise.

John Schinela & John Cafaro may have a different story to tell. John Callies and one other fella whose name eludes me stated his Italian heritage had a big part of the name push. It reminds me of the Indy Scoop and it being compared to the wing of a 747. It was in no way produced because of the plane nor parts used from a place. John Callies worked with the team and they designed it from scratch along with the lens. Sometimes the statements are taken wrong and then continue on like the old Phone Line Game.

I have talked with a few as I know Scott has and with time even their stories change as they remember things later on. John Callies swore their were only two Pace cars made and swore that is all he had time for. When Fred showed him the PPG car it all came back to him. But he swore that only two of the cars had a Super Duty engine in them and the third was a standard car.

Bob Birchmiere who built my DGP for Pontiac Motor sports and GM has done the same over the 7 years I have talked with him. He told me he built the PPG car Fred owns but with time he found he was talking about another car and Fred's was his body sent to PPG. He swore the PPG did not have a Super Duty when he worked on it. Well as I said we had cars mixed up and he had worked on a Indy but not Fred's.

My Main point is 27 years ago is a long time and everyone of us mix things up. As I get older and watch videos of my past I swear sometimes things happened another way. This is why documenting stuff is crucial to collectors. Rick B

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: Just a note that the original FIrebird Fiero was pernounced the same way back in 1968/69 as we did today. Just for those who have never seen the original Firebird Fiero here is a photo. The FIero name was applied in 1969 with a repaint and aero wheel covers along with a cut down wind screen and some aero effects. GM desgn was really starting to show aerodynamics on their show cars else where like the Aero Vette. The car originally was based on a first gen F body Firebird and had a 400 CID V8 up front. In 1968 it was white with a red stripe. As of now I have not seen anything or know of anyone who know if the car survived so it is safe to say this one was crushed years ago. It was more an Idea car for styling vs anything they were looking at production wise.

Oddly enough, I recently asked for a photoshop of a 68-69 GTO nose onto a Fiero.

Jonathan

The back end styling was not much but the nose would have made an interesting nose if they could have used it on the Firebird etc. It was clean low profile and very Pontiac like.

This was the era where they were just starting to play with the Endura Nose and what they could do with it.

Lots of information I never really gave much thought too. Nice read. The coffee mugs are interesting.

I have been into FIero's since 1980 and still own my original since 1985 so I have collected a lot of info and gotten to meet many people over the years. There are others here that have done the same.

There is a lot of info that has been handed down because it is not documented anywhere and that is why I would love to see a book or even a data base to cover the many hidden storied or truths on the car.

Too often many of the false [Lotus] stories are passes on. Or the fact many things happened during the Fiero program that were never passed on to the public.

The nature of the Fiero program has made it difficutl to get the facts straight even from Pontiac as a lot of what when to was hidden or mislead to keep the program alive from the GM brass, other GM divisions and to keep peace with the Unions. The bottom line is that Pontiac took a big risk that payed off in some ways but in the end hurt them and created a lot of hard feelings within GM and the UAW. For a long time the name Fiero was avoided by many at GM who did not want to hurt their futures. As one GM manager stated he did not want to speak in public about the car as there were still some that could make it difficult for him if he spoke out on what he knew.

At the time though to be fair GM had considered closing down Pontiac as GM was in a world of hurt money wise then. The Fiero and new TA did bring a lot of attention to Pontiac and help sell a lot of Grand AM's with increased show room traffic. This saved Pontiac from what happened to Oldmobile later on. But Pontiac finally ended up going down that same path later on when they were the performance division with little performance other than the G8 and Solstice. Bob Lutz tried to make changes but there was too little time and money by the time he arrived.

But as Rick pointed out that time and the fact just try to remember what you did 30 years ago at work has effected some of the stories. Also GM is large enough the stories were not always seen the same way from different areas. Pontiac did try to cover with a lot of misleading info to try to protect the car at different times.

To be honest this is a car that should have never made it to market without the misleading cover and hidden work of Pontiac. They took a big chance and it worked for a while but it ended up catching up to them.

The Fiero is a case where it shows how GM never really was on one page and how often many of their divisions were their own worst enemey. I really recomend the Delorean book and Lutz book as it is very telling of how and what was wrong with GM. Today I am glad to say Lutz has put many in charge of product that are good at what they do. Also he has opened up the engineers from the crazy rules they were under. We are already now seeing the changes they will bring starting with the ATS Cadillac. Also look at how they have turned an over weight Camaro ZL1 into a car that can match or beat lap times with a much lighter and more powerful Shelby. This make it exciting to see how the new Alpha based Camaro will be in 2015-16.

But there are still a few old school types at GM that do not understand why they made the Cruze as nice as they did and feel cuts should be made even with near 300,000 units sold. With luck many of these people will be gone soon. One has to wonder if Lutz had made the changes before a Fiero was attempted what we would have had.

At the 25th Anniversary. Hulki told me he made the engine bay large enough to accommodate the V8. He was so excited while walking around seeing how we enjoyed the Fiero and seeing what has been done to it. Anytime a designer can see a better design or advancement of his baby they are just like a dad. He even told me he gave the OK for my car to be made but I wonder if he meant the 1982 race car that mine was made to copy. He did walk right over to it stating he gave the OK for it so wonder if he was still around since it was in the works in 1983 and was delivered to DGP in December 1983 from John's car lot at GM. Rick B

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: Just a note that the original FIrebird Fiero was pernounced the same way back in 1968/69 as we did today. Just for those who have never seen the original Firebird Fiero here is a photo. The FIero name was applied in 1969 with a repaint and aero wheel covers along with a cut down wind screen and some aero effects. GM desgn was really starting to show aerodynamics on their show cars else where like the Aero Vette. The car originally was based on a first gen F body Firebird and had a 400 CID V8 up front. In 1968 it was white with a red stripe. As of now I have not seen anything or know of anyone who know if the car survived so it is safe to say this one was crushed years ago. It was more an Idea car for styling vs anything they were looking at production wise.

I thought that was a Pontiac Banshee II, not a Firebird Fiero.

They also released a Banshee prototype in 88 with a 4.0L DOHC V8 in the front:



Also: I have called my Fiero the "Fire Arrow" way before this "Fire Aero" came up... Weird :P.

I don't know if it's true or not, but remember:

The car was a Banshee II in 1968 and repainted and changed a few things to make it the Firebird Fiero in 1969. Same car just changed enought to rename it.

As for the name follow the time line and how GM names cars. The name is used in the late 60's and is a owned registered name held by GM. GM names cars only with names they hold the rights too.

Or what are the odds John Schinella just by chance picked a name that means proud in Itallian in 1982 [Approx date] and just by chance GM owned this name just because in 1969 they usd this very same name when it ment Firebired Aero Concept.

Then they present mugs at the intro of the car that has one that looks to back up the Fire and Aero name. Who would have figured Fire would play such a important roll later on? LOL!

While all this keeping in mind Marketing has to spin a name to mean cool things that enhance the name of a car. Remember Corrintintian Leather was invented by Chrysler because the name sounded good. Before they came up with the name there was no such thing. A common thing in auto marketing.

This is just one of those things where you have to use a little common sense and look at how and when things happened. The odds of a name as obscure as Fiero being used by one car company twice by total chance are pretty slim. I would bet Lottery odds are better.

Do car companies fudge the truth on marketing? You bet!

Just something for us to think about.

quote Originally posted by hyperv6:Just for those who have never seen the original Firebird Fiero here is a photo.

enjoying this thread and really digging the 'Fiero' pic I don't recall ever seeing before.

I'd leap all over an 'unofficial' Fiero biography. Good idea that...

quote Originally posted by blakeinspace: enjoying this thread and really digging the 'Fiero' pic I don't recall ever seeing before. I'd leap all over an 'unofficial' Fiero biography. Good idea that...

There is so much out there that many of us have collected first hand that we could pass on.

Like Rick stated many things are being forgotten or not remembered correctly with age and time. We have to remember that while the Fiero is our number one priority that this was just another of many projects they worked on. Add to that trying to remember what you did 30 years ago is a challange.

Also we do get different stroies from insiders too. As with many GM projects there is the official story and then there is the real story. The best example of this is the pace cars. As most of us know there were 3 real pace cars used for the race. But now here is the rest of the story.

The truth is there was a 4th pace car that was found in the Indy storage building with the #1 pace car from the race. It was a little different witht he wheels and decals on the rear wing. It also had a Sunbird Turbo engine. From what what was found out it had issues on blowing up so they went to the Super Duty engine. GM left the Turbo pace car in the car of the Indy Museum where it was found and even suprised the most informed Fiero historians. There is a thread here that shared this with all of us.

It is like the 1990 Emblems I have. It took me 2 years and a lot of E mails and calls to people in GM to get them authenticated. Once I found the right person he sent me the large engineering drawing of it. I was lucky to get it before he retired. To try to get info on these today would have been even more difficult. At least I made a lot of connections at GM that led to much more first hand info and some of the real inside stories GM will never make a public statment on.

I think if we could get a publisher interested and a note author we could see some kind of a book. To today GM may even be more inclined to help now that they have changed much of their ways. Either way those here that are keepers of much of this info just have to share what we find know or hear to pass this on. Otherwise much of this info will vanish or will be forgotten.

At times I wish we had a link or section where we could store much of this info for future owners. As when we are gone so will the info.

Like Scott said much of it GM will not tell. Just listen to John talk about the Design engineers meeting at DGP to work as they please in this video. That was their outlet to build the cars they were not allowed to. Johns pushing the Race car had these guys building my car later for fun and the Car Craft car designed by Schinela initially. All these little tid bits can be put into one big book one day. I still have allot more Video and tapes of John talking about design work. Rick B

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPrxjNH0Ahc

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xPrxjNH0Ahc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Typical pissing contest seen so often here. Read Witzenburg's book, page 59 and get your answers.

quote Originally posted by FieroG97J: Typical pissing contest seen so often here. Read Witzenburg's book, page 59 and get your answers.

What are you talking about? No one is arguing and the only ignorant statement made by anyone was you. Good information has come out of this thread. Rick B

quote Originally posted by FieroG97J: Typical pissing contest seen so often here. Read Witzenburg's book, page 59 and get your answers.

That is my point. The Witzenburg book is the story as GM marketing wanted it told. Note Witzenburg worked for GM as did his wife and he told the story as they wanted it told not always how it really happened.

No piss here. Just answer this. What are the odds a name like Fiero would be found at random at a late meeting to name the car in a dictionary in 1982-3 and just be luck that the same name was used by Pontiac in 1969? Add to that GM also just happend to own the rights to that same Fiero name.

My point is we have two things going on here. Pontiac changed the name late in the game but never really stated why. They also released the dramatic story about Itallian and proud just as a good Marketing guy would. But the name was a name already owned by GM and one they owned the full rights too since they last used it when it did not mean proud.

The bottom line is we have the Story and as Paul Harvey used to say the rest of the story.

The bottom line is to have chosen the name at random and just happen to own the rights to it are pretty remote. While the official story make a good dramatic story it just does not add up.

On top of that we now have the mug that tends to back up the name as it once was a mix of Fire and Aero. In hind sight it is good they had a cover story as fire would not have been a good thing to associate here.

All this is was just somthing to consider. Also it is a warning with what I know of GM do not always buy the marketing line. People are suckers for a good story and line and that is good marketing.

Also we should note the disclaimer that Witzenburg did in the Solstice book he wrote. He pretty much outlined his back ground as also his wifes and pretty much lets you know he tells the story in the way Marketing wants it told.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 07-09-2012).]

Again, carrying on a civil objection to your logic:

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: The Witzenburg book is the story as GM marketing wanted it told... not always how it really happened.

You use Witzenburg's association with the company as liability, when most would see it as an asset. You claim to know better than Witzenburg, yet you only have speculation to back up your version of events. My skepticism also comes from your lack thus far of having a motive for GM Marketing's alledged story change.

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: What are the odds a name like Fiero would be found at random at a late meeting to name the car in a dictionary in 1982-3 and just be luck that the same name was used by Pontiac in 1969? Add to that GM also just happend to own the rights to that same Fiero name.

First, pick up an English dictionary and start skimming for good car names. You'll find that they are few and far between, so the odds are smaller than you might think. Next, consider for an instant that Witzenburg's story is the way it happened, do you not admit that after John Schinella and Sergio Pininfarina picked the best name out of a list of Italian words ("Fiamma"), and that when it was rejected by the dealer council, that it is possible that Schinella went home that evening frustrated and leafed through an Italian dictionary starting at the word Fiamma and scrolled down alphabetically until he found the next most suitable adjective, Fiero? The "randomness" upon which you hang your argument of probabilities starts to take on a more ordered and probable appearance to me. Do you not admit that it's also possible that Schinella may not have been aware of every obscure car name GM ever copyrighted, and that when he went in the next day and proposed the name Fiero, that someone might have piped up and said something like "That's excellent... we even have the copyright for the name from 1969, so it's a perfect solution."

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: My point is we have two things going on here. Pontiac changed the name late in the game but never really stated why.

If you don't believe a word that Witzenburg writes, then I can see why you would say this. I however choose to believe the man when he states: "Pontiac rejected Pegasus according to Bill Hoglund, because most people mispronounced the name. They put the accent on the second syllable (Peg-gas-sus) instead of the first syllable (Peg-uh-sus)." That sounds like a reason for a name change to me. Besides, after that name was thrown out, Sunfire was the next most popular name before being throw out as well in favor of Fiamma. The reasons why all of these were tossed out are covered in Witzenburg's book between pages 58 and 59. You really should read it too.

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: They also released the dramatic story about Itallian and proud just as a good Marketing guy would.

Dramatic? I would tend to believe an executive leafing through a dictionary is not a great definition of dramatic for most people.

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: But the name was a name already owned by GM and one they owned the full rights too since they last used it when it did not mean proud.

This is the same as saying Corvette is the original name of a car, and when they named it, it did not mean a gunship. No matter how you look at it, Fiero meant proud in Italian long before any GM corporate executive reformed the letters of Fire and Aero into Fiero.

quote Originally posted by Bloozberry: Again, carrying on a civil objection to your logic: This is the same as saying Corvette is the original name of a car, and when they named it, it did not mean a gunship. No matter how you look at it, Fiero meant proud in Italian long before any GM corporate executive reformed the letters of Fire and Aero into Fiero.

The odds and the time line speak for it's self If you choose to buy the offical Marking plan fine. I have just laid the info out there and people can accpet what they like. If you are comfortable with an obscure name being used twice 15 years apart by the same company that just happen to own that name on the second chance discovery you are welcome to it.

The mug came up and shows that even the Pontiac team were not all on one page and in this case backs up the original use of the name. But the guy who said it was just the General Manager of Pontiac what would he know? LOL!

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 07-10-2012).]

/Warning!... OT rant to follow!/

At least Fiero was named a 'real' word...

I so hate the push the last couple of decades of just naming a car a letter followed by numbers.

Give me a real word... that invokes emotion...
How would you like it if Fiero had actually been called... 'P-1' ?

ugh...
Audi... A4,A5,A6,A8....
BMW... 330,335,525,750....
Infiniti... J30,I30,M45,G37,G35...
Acura... TL,RL,TSX,RSX,NSX...
Caddilac... CTS,DTS,STS...
Jaguar... XK,XF,XR...
Pontiac... G5,G6,G8...
Lexus... ES,GS,LFA
Volvo... C30,S40,S60,S80

Annoying! boo...
Give me Grand Prix, Integra, DeVille!.... though I admit that I am not entirely overewhelemed with names like the Honda Fit or Nissan Leaf

What's next?... the Mazda Stick and the Dodge Paunch?

quote Originally posted by blakeinspace: /Warning!... OT rant to follow!/ At least Fiero was named a 'real' word... I so hate the push the last couple of decades of just naming a car a letter followed by numbers. Give me a real word... that invokes emotion... How would you like it if Fiero had actually been called... 'P-1' ? ugh... Audi... A4,A5,A6,A8.... BMW... 330,335,525,750.... Infiniti... J30,I30,M45,G37,G35... Acura... TL,RL,TSX,RSX,NSX... Caddilac... CTS,DTS,STS... Jaguar... XK,XF,XR... Pontiac... G5,G6,G8... Lexus... ES,GS,LFA Volvo... C30,S40,S60,S80 Annoying! boo... Give me Grand Prix, Integra, DeVille!.... though I admit that I am not entirely overewhelemed with names like the Honda Fit or Nissan Leaf What's next?... the Mazda Stick and the Dodge Paunch?

The number ploy was started as they are cheap and easy to register numbers vs a real name that has to be deeply researched. Then once the Euro companies started to do that the other follow suit to try to feed off the German car image.

If you read up on names and how they were picked and how they were marketed it makes for some very interesting stories. Some mean one thing and they company markets it as something else. Or like the original GT40 stood for the car being 40 inches tall. The Shelby Omni GLH was Goes Like Hell. The GLHS was Goes Like Hell Some more for the extra power it held.

The Camaro was called Panther but Chevy wanted a car with a C. They came up with Camaro that is kind of sort of a Spanish name that was not offensive. Now the folks at GM called it meaning Friend, little Friend, Pal, Comrade and even one manager said it ment viscous animal LOL!

A lot of these storys are true and many are fabricated to enhance the image of the name. It is like I stated on the Corinthian Leather. There is no such thing but it sounded good when Ricardo Montalban would say it.

I read a lot of auto history and all these storied can be a suprise on how their names came about.