Any one know of a source where I can look or...? FieroNews removed service manuals.

It is still there.....harder to see though.

http://www.fieronews.net/fusion/downloads.php

Hello all I have received an email from Haynes to remove there downloads and I have done so as I do not need any legal issues. This includes the Haynes manual and the 86 87 and 88 service manual. I removed the service manuals to be proactive as well. If you need these I don't know how to get them to you without having any legal issue. I hope that you all understand. Everything else is still there just not these 4 items. I know who turned me in and they are another vendor that is here as well. But I will not follow there suit and do this to them as well. There email was CC on the email I got and not BCC'd like they were going for,

Tom

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1985 Fiero GT 4speed 1986 Fiero GT
1997 BMW 328 1997 Explorer 4X4 XLT

FieroNews

[This message has been edited by Fiero Thomas (edited 03-22-2013).]

The service manuals were property of General Motors Corp. Not Haynes. I don't know if that is good news or not, but Haynes has no say with them.

quote Originally posted by Fiero Thomas: ... Tom

Sad actually. If you were to choose, you can PM me with said member's name, and I will rate them accordingly.

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 03-22-2013).]

sad....

BTW, it was probably Helms, not Haynes ??

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: Sad actually. If you were to choose, you can PM me with said member's name, and I will rate them accordingly.

X2

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Project Genisis Lo Budget 3800SC swap

88 Coupe under construction

[This message has been edited by hercimer01 (edited 03-22-2013).]

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: sad.... BTW, it was probably Helms, not Haynes ??

!

[This message has been edited by Fiero Thomas (edited 03-22-2013).]

So can we download a PDF from Helms? I doubt it. It looks like all they sell is paper.

Haynes manuals suck. I have several................

I do have my service manuals, but I do know that many cannot afford to drop a Benjamin or so on publications for our repair needs. Yes, it is copyright infringement, but I still feel bad that in this day of age, there is not an easy access to knowledge that has been around since these cars were thought up in '79.

Looks like I am a day late and a dollar short. Need an 87 service manual and just missed the download. Any thoughts to contact GM directly to get permission to make it available for download since it is out of production?

If any one knows where I could get one please send me a pm. Just picked up my 87 sunday.

Let's get this resolved somehow.

Chilton and Haynes are independent aftermarket book companies that are not part of this problem. I am not clear as to why GM does not see their work as a copyright infringement too, but apparently they don't.

Helms is a company licensed by GM to supply the original GM manual. The PDF that FieroThomas had on his server was a copy of the GM manual. From my looking on the Helms website, Helms is selling only paper manuals, and at a price where if they get an order they can send a kid to the copy machine and print one up. There are no CDs or downloads offered. I don't expect FieroThomas to lead the fight, but in theory we are breaking copyright law every time we post a wiring diagram, depending on where it came from.

Do we have anybody working in copyright law on PFF?

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 03-23-2013).]

quote Originally posted by solotwo: I would suspect The fiero store my self, but end of story. I'll look for a used one. I bought a so called new one and it was a photocopy and pages were missing. I either bought from from Helms or FS.

I remember it was from Helms. Piss poor quality and piss poor service. If some one from helms is on here I have an issue with your business practices!

[This message has been edited by solotwo (edited 03-23-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Fiero Thomas: ... I know who turned me in and they are another vendor that is here as well.

I think this character complained to me some time back when he thought FieroNews was my website.

quote Originally posted by solotwo: ... I'll look for a used one. .

You'll likely be getting one from the character mentioned above. He sells them (that's why he was complaining)


LOTS of manuals on eBay http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.h...l&_sacat=0&_from=R40

I have brand new ones for "show" for each of my cars, plus a second "garage copy" that I use when working on the cars.

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My World of Wheels Winners (Click on links below)

3.4L Supercharged 87 GT and Super Duty 4 Indy #163

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 03-23-2013).]

Hello all thank you for the support on this. I will say that it was not the fiero store. You guys are great as I feel I have good friends on this board but for one. You are all getting a plus from me if I have not done it already

[This message has been edited by Fiero Thomas (edited 03-23-2013).]

Sad that manuals that have been out there for 25 years and are available in some public libraries for free, as well as in thrift stores should be an issue for copyright infringment. True, that is how our system works at times. I'll bet Haynes / Helms / GM / Chilton's don't sell a total of 100 books a year for these cars and those copies have been sitting in the back of the wharehouse for a long time.

By the way, the State of Michigan has a free online manual service for a number of vehicles. Not sure who's books they use, but it is handy.

You can buy a CD on E-bay for the 87 and it will cost $35. It says it is 'factory authorized' but how do we know? Could we buy a single copy and post it on PFF? That would be a great thread....one complete service manual.....does that violate copyright law?

There are still downloads of the 87 available. I was able to find one just now.

quote Originally posted by KOS: There are still downloads of the 87 available. I was able to find one just now.

Well, that's encouraging. I guess you just have to know how to search.

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 03-23-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Kevin87FieroGT: By the way, the State of Michigan has a free online manual service for a number of vehicles. Not sure who's books they use, but it is handy.

Yes, this was true.
I used it to build my L67 swap. The login has been changed to something more secure I believe because what was using doesn't work ant more.

I have been meaning to get down to my local library to set up a membership so that I can get a membership card to log in with. I am not sure if all librarys have access to Chilton online for free, but the Michigan one did.

Fiero Thomas - PM sent

this is sad but sadly expected. Email/tip sent to Haynes then likely expect same to GM/Helm.

Haynes sucks, Chilton to, in many cases. The Fiero PDF is very old version and have many problem...

Yes, GM own copyright to GM's SM OM etc. and they license Helm Inc to print etc.
GM and Helm Launch Online Parts & Accessories Store
Maybe this could be the original source for 88 SM w/ watermarked GM Restoration Parts

quote Originally posted by Kevin87FieroGT: Sad that manuals that have been out there for 25 years and are available in some public libraries for free, as well as in thrift stores should be an issue for copyright infringment.

No. Anyone can sell/loan/rent printed copies of books etc. Is how Netflix and many others got started...
See First-sale doctrine Wiki

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Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)

quote Originally posted by Gandalf: New location for the service manuals to be announced shortly - watch this space!

And the 'off-shoring' continues.......at least it won't be China..

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 03-25-2013).]

I bought a GM '88 service manual & GM '84 to '88 parts catalogue from http://kenmcgeeautobooks.com/page/1
Other years service manuals are available as well.

quote Originally posted by David Hambleton: I bought a GM '88 service manual & GM '84 to '88 parts catalogue from http://kenmcgeeautobooks.com/page/1 Other years service manuals are available as well.

Bought my copy of 88 workshop manual from them too 7 years ago .

[This message has been edited by Robert 2 (edited 03-27-2013).]

A lot of the info can be found in the 86 & 88 service manuals

[This message has been edited by 30+mpg (edited 03-28-2013).]