I'm calling you out.....to the farm.

I have some land, much either fully or partially shaded, with heavy black clay soil. What food crops can I grow that don't require much water?

I can grow stuff in my front yard that has full sun, the only concern being that without a fence and with heavy foot and car traffic on my street it's likely any crops in the front yard will get stolen.

We're in a drought where it typically goes weeks between rains that run, maybe, an inch or two.

Nobody around here knows anything about farming, lol!

JazzMan

black clay. Is that black gumbo soil?

Heavy clay soil. Do you happen to know the actual soil type? If it has a LOT of clay in it, you're probably going to have to work some organic matter into it to soften it up and of course, nothing does too whoopee without water.

When you have real heavy gumbo type soil you actually have to first try to improve the soil THEN worry about growing something. You can do that a lot of ways by working in organic matter (peat, compost (preferred), manure (watch out for what else comes with it in the form of weed seeds) straw, grass clippings, etc.). If you don't get a higher organic matter content you have two problems, it will get dry and hard very quickly while not allowing rain or other water in and it also generally is very acid or alkaline so you might need to add lime or some other material to buffer it. Around here, our gumbo land gets heavily alkaline (all the limestone around and fairly shallow) so we don't have to lime our ground, but I don't know what your soils are like down there. Ph tests are pretty easy to do. You can even do them yourself with litmus paper and distilled water. Typically you lime acid soils and put gypsum in alkalai soils. Do a google search on it.

Your biggest challenge is going to get the ground ready and suitable. As I'm sure you've found out when you've dug in your yard for your improvements you've been doing, that crap is no fun to work by hand. A power tiller is almost a must if you can beg, borrow, or rent one somewhere.

Wheat and other small grains (oats, rye) generally do OK on gumbo clay soils, but they're not a very practical crop for a home size plot. Work in some organic matter and you could give some sweet corn a shot. If you're not that worried about actually growing something to eat, but want to provide some habitat, while you're working in your organic matter sunflowers are a great first year crop. The roots go down as far as 12' and can help break open the clay soils. They require very little water as well. You can get oil flowers (more common for bird seed) or confectionary flowers like you buy at the store if you want to eat them. They're easy to harvest and shell by hand. Other wild flowers also work for animal habitat. We always had some good luck with pumpkins, squash, and watermelons on clay soils but just remember to mulch them a lot as they're growing to help retain moisture.

There are a lot of things you can do, just none of them easy in that heavy soil, but to be honest, after about 3-4 years of working it, you'll see it mellow out and you can grow darn near anything you want and you'll have the satisfaction of knowing you left the land better than it was when you got there.

John Stricker

PS, thanks for asking. Seriously.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: I'm calling you out.....to the farm. I have some land, much either fully or partially shaded, with heavy black clay soil. What food crops can I grow that don't require much water? I can grow stuff in my front yard that has full sun, the only concern being that without a fence and with heavy foot and car traffic on my street it's likely any crops in the front yard will get stolen. We're in a drought where it typically goes weeks between rains that run, maybe, an inch or two. Nobody around here knows anything about farming, lol! JazzMan

Epsom salts helps make clay soils manageble. Not economicaly feasible on a huge lot but, work it in with the manure, grass clippings also help if you can get a good source, check with some landscaping people, anybody who bags their lawn clippings.

Tomatoes, cukes, peppers, mellons, beans, squash, lettuce, eggplants (mmmm, eggplants!,) herbs, okra, in fact almost anything. I live in the high desert and the secret is to deliver the water to the plants, don't broadcast it and to plant in wind sheltered areas (wind increases drying.) So drip systems and watering wands are in. Sprinklers are out. If you use a sprinkler, use the smallest one you can find and low water pressure. I have desert clay (Nevada is the America's largest kitty litter box, btw) and I dig individual holes and fill them with with plant and potting soil. You want the spot to be slightly sub grade, so that the water stays in the hole and doesn't run off..Actually not much trouble to do gardens this way--no rototilling and the little spots can be cultivated with a hula hole. If you use fertilizer, don't use fertilizer for lawns, it's too high in nitrogen.

If you have access to little kids, hire them to water every other day. And let them pick fresh veggies to munch on.

Sorry about your drought btw. It's just normal here (we had a very wet spring, tho) where the relative humidity runs about 10% or less in the summer. Dry skin and killer boogers!

Brian Lamberts
RENO NV

Jazzy,

Sunflowers
corn
and weeds

[This message has been edited by revin (edited 05-25-2006).]

Gypsum is usually beneficial to the heavy clay soils in Oklahoma and Texas, and it's relatively inexpensive when purchased by the ton.

Another "crop" that's more labor intensive than capital intensive is honey, plus every spring you can rent out your beehives to farmers growing crops (e.g. alfalfa) that require insect pollination.

Talk to your local county agricultural extension service. They are a wealth of good information, especially with respect to local conditions.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 05-27-2006).]

quote time to call you out!

You can call the boy out of the country, but you can't...

... wait, that wouldn't make any sense.

There's a TSC in town, I bet they have testing supplies. I know someone that can get me a dumptruck load of manure compost for under $200, so I'll start planning for that.

Yes, my soil is hard-pack clay. When it dries it gets 1" wide cracks. Grass sort of grows on top of it rather than in it. I can break it with a sledge hammer and chisel, but full overhead slams with a shovel typically only penetrate a quarter to half inch or so. When wet if you walk across a bare area, of which there are many, you gain about a half inch per step in height.

The pecan tree seems to like it, though.

Crops I was thinking of were things I actually like to eat, hehehe. Stuff like cantelope, tomatos, romaine lettuce, onions (big and the little ones you eat whole), carrots, potatos, and maybe some new and different stuff.

I figured grains would be tough because of how many square feet yield relatively little useable grain.

Also I was thinking about some smaller fruit trees that will start fruiting within a year or two, plus strawberries. I like strawberries, when I was a kid we had a patch out back that kept us full for many months of the year.

JazzMan

quote just remember to mulch them a lot as they're growing to help retain moisture.

I would second that advice, and to be a little more specific, get the shredded bark stuff, not shredded 2x4's as that is nothing but ornimentle. mulch keeps in the moisture and does a pretty good job keeping weeds out. In landscaping, we put down generally about 3 inches to start, and then it will settle down with the first rain (when ever that may be for you).

and yummmmm. strawberries........

Jazzman:

Contact you local agicultural college or co-op. They can have soil analysis performed for a low cost, if not free.

Check the internet also, you may can send it off for analysis. The analysis will tell you exactly what to add. I have had this done for my lawn.

Paul

quote Originally posted by jstricker: There are a lot of things you can do...

John, interesting post. Doesn't apply much to the soil in my neck of the woods, but I enjoyed the read.

May I ask advice on planting stuff on my new property, or should I start a different thread?

Soil building is the key. To break up gumbo you will have to rototill organic material (peat, compost, etc), sand, gypsum and lime into your soil. Probably many years in the fall and spring. Get a soil analysis and ph from your agricultural station so that you can add what is needed. This guy has a lot of info and products that are specific to the Dallas/Fort Worth area. Try to duplicate his gumbo buster.

http://www.soilbuildingsystems.com/

Some other thoughts on the subject:

http://www.sarosesociety.org/soils.html

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: There's a TSC in town, I bet they have testing supplies. I know someone that can get me a dumptruck load of manure compost for under $200, so I'll start planning for that. Yes, my soil is hard-pack clay. When it dries it gets 1" wide cracks. Grass sort of grows on top of it rather than in it. I can break it with a sledge hammer and chisel, but full overhead slams with a shovel typically only penetrate a quarter to half inch or so. When wet if you walk across a bare area, of which there are many, you gain about a half inch per step in height. The pecan tree seems to like it, though. Crops I was thinking of were things I actually like to eat, hehehe. Stuff like cantelope, tomatos, romaine lettuce, onions (big and the little ones you eat whole), carrots, potatos, and maybe some new and different stuff. I figured grains would be tough because of how many square feet yield relatively little useable grain. Also I was thinking about some smaller fruit trees that will start fruiting within a year or two, plus strawberries. I like strawberries, when I was a kid we had a patch out back that kept us full for many months of the year. JazzMan

you can get a ph soil test at home depot for about $5. unless you really til up the soil root crops like potatoes and carrots won't turn out well in clay soil. i had some carrots that were 4 inches wide and 3 inches long (lol).

best bet is melons (watermelon, cantalope ie muskmelons, honeydew) and squaches (pumpkin, cucumber, zuccs). they were originally from africa and can handle the heat. tomatoes will also do well and peppers.

i've had great luck with strawberries. bought 6 little plants three springs ago and now i have about a 6x6 plot of them. they are alpine strawberries to deal with the cold. doubt you will have that problem however. they get about the size of your thumb. nice bit size. i don't like some of those mutant berries you get at the grocery store that are the size of a lemon.

to break up ground that tuff either hand dig each hole or have someone come in with a tractor. as hot as it is down there running a tiller is going to be a very hard job. its not easy on ground that's been tilled before.

oh also on watering. i've had good luck with punching a bunch of holes in a garder hose that's had a blow out. kinda homemade trickle waterer. place it next to the seeds and keep the water pressure on low.
good luck. sostock

I had pretty much the same problem with bad soil when I first started my garden 6 years ago .... lots of red clay and rocks .... I pretty much did what John said and now these past few years I've had an awesome garden .....

My little 'ol veggie garden is 60 yards X 30 yards .... this year I've planted 1lb sweet corn, 1 lb green beans, some decorative gords, blue pumkin, jack-o-lanterns, watermelon, cantaloupe, cucumbers, butternut squash, summer squash, egg plant, radishes, turnips, beets, head lettuce, cabbage, spinach, two types of onions, 3 types of peppers, 18 tomato plants, sunflower, and even a row of indian corn.

We're still eating frozen corn on the cob, green beans and pickles made from last years harvest !!!

------------------

Proud Member, Classic Fiero Owners Group - International
www.cfogi.org