My own personal rant - shared by many in my same position. I admit I used to use the phrases, "You're retarded." or "Don't be a retard," when talking to friends, but only because I was young and I didn't know. Hell, my dad called me that enough when I was growing up to really embed it in my vocabulary, but times change.

Now that I have a kid with Down syndrome, I know. It is something that does hurt those who are disabled, and those who live with them even more because in a lot of cases, we understand what it means better than the disabled do.

It's more of an educational thing. Don't think that I am coming down on people who use the phrase. I am merely trying to get the word out. There is no question that when it is actually said to a person with a disability that it IS meant to be hurtful, but know that just using a phrase like, "Don't be retarded," is painful whether it is meant to be or not.

Like John C. McGinley (Dr. Cox on SCRUBS) says in his November 2006 interview on CNN, "...And so just to be aware it’s hurtful. What you choose to do with that, you know, go with God. I’m not going to tell you how to talk, but now you know it’s hurtful."

Again - I'm just trying to get the word out since I know. No hard feelings whatsoever - except to those that would actually call a disabled person "tard" or "retard" of course.

Feel free to chime in...

Here is a link to a special needs thread by Pennock's members - https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/056892.html - and here is the entire interview with McGinley.

Aired November 1, 2006 - 19:00:00 ET
GLENN BECK, HOST

BECK: You know, there are shows that are funny, and then there are shows that break ground, but usually they don’t -- you know, a show doesn’t do both. "Scrubs" is one of the few.

Dr. Perry Cox, our next guest, has given America a chronic case of the giggles. Get it? He’s a doctor, and I’m using medic -- anyways. He was on our program -- I don’t even know. John C. McGinley, when were you on, a couple of months ago?

JOHN C. MCGINLEY, ACTOR, "SCRUBS": You had me on when you guys were just getting started, I would say back around June or so, right when you guys were just getting up and running.

BECK: When we were just a horrible, horrible show.

MCGINLEY: No, congratulations. You’ve had a lot of success here.

BECK: Thank you. Now, John, when you were on, we were talking about your son, Buddy. And we had a great conversation, and I said, "I’ve got to have you back when it gets close to the Buddy Walk." And here we are already. Tell America...

MCGINLEY: Well, you were good to your word, and you were nice enough to have us back on. My son’s name is Max.

BECK: Oh, my gosh, I am so sorry.

MCGINLEY: But that’s OK, not to be confused with the Buddy Walk, which is our day of inclusion that I wanted to talk to you about, because we have about 250, 300 of them spread out over September, October, and November. And it’s this wonderful day of inclusion and empowerment for kids with special needs, primarily in this case kids with Down syndrome.

BECK: OK. Now, you say that the Buddy Walk is not just for kids. It’s also for parents. Why do you say that?

MCGINLEY: Well, as a caregiver -- and you may know, because I know you have a child with special needs.

BECK: If you would like to call my daughter Lisa so I feel better, because that’s not her name.

MCGINLEY: Yes, I would feel better. You were blessed with Lisa.

BECK: No, sorry. My daughter’s name is Mary.

MCGINLEY: Mary?

BECK: Yes, but...

MCGINLEY: You were blessed with Mary. And a lot of parents who come out to the Buddy Walk, it’s almost like the first time they’re reintroducing themselves to kind of a coalition of people who are in the same boat, because you feel a lot of times a lot of parents -- Charlie Weis talks about in his new book, the Notre Dame coach, "No Excuses," talks about how there’s a natural sense that maybe you did something wrong, which is entirely wrong. You didn’t do anything wrong.

BECK: How long did that take you to get over that? I...

MCGINLEY: About four or five months.

BECK: Yes, really? Wow, you were fast. It took me a little longer to recover. I think it was our second, maybe our second child before we really kind of got over that.

MCGINLEY: That’s intense. And it’s an opportunity at the Buddy Walk for when parents, when caregivers do come out to embrace other people who have kids with special needs and be welcomed into the first of many communities -- hopefully, you know, a whole society -- where they embrace the differences that their child has and include them instead of excluding them.

And that’s what the day is about. It’s really a pretty special day about inclusion and elevation.

BECK: OK, you have something that really makes you angry, and it is a term that you would like to see banished from our vocabulary.

MCGINLEY: Well, it really just takes the wind out of you when people refer to kids as "retards" and "retarded." And the reason it’s so heinous to me is because, when you refer to somebody as a retard or a ‘tard, you’ve actually picked a perfect storm of cowardice, because you’re picking on someone who’s not going to return serve.

God forbid you call an African-American a (bleep), or a Jewish person a kike, or an Italian person a ginny. A, it’s wrong, it’s not acceptable, and you just might get your ass kicked. So that’s not going to happen when you do that to a kid with special needs, so you’ve picked the perfect target.

BECK: Well, no, OK, now wait a minute. Hang on just a second, because there are -- you know, there are some terms -- like yesterday I was talking about what John Kerry said. And I said, "So we’re calling our troops, as I understand it, we’re calling them emotionally retarded." Well, that is -- I’m sorry, educationally retarded. That is not calling someone with special needs -- because I agree with you -- calling somebody with special needs retarded is the worst of the worst, because you’re exactly right. However, that is an actual "to slow down," to say you’re educationally retarded. Are you saying you have a problem with that word in any form?

MCGINLEY: No, of course not. But the slang use of, "Don’t be a retard," "That’s so retarded," the visual image that begs is -- the poster child for that is a kid with special needs. And so what you’re essentially -- the synonyms for "don’t be retarded," "that’s so retarded," is you’re an idiot, you’re a moron, you’re that kid drooling in the corner whose 21st chromosome tripled.

Well, guess what? That kid is trying his hardest, and he’s doing his best. And so guess what?

BECK: May I...

MCGINLEY: He might be doing a great job.

BECK: Devil’s advocate quickly here, because I’ve only got 30 seconds. But I would rather know -- the thing I hate about political correctness is it shuts people up. It doesn’t change their hearts. And I want to know who that person is that would call my child retarded. I want to know them. I don’t want them to be thinking it. I want to hear it so I can deal with that person. Do you understand that side of it?

MCGINLEY: Well, I do, but the fundamental problem with hurtful language is that a lot of people don’t know. And so all I’m sharing with you is that, when you do refer to somebody as a retard or a ‘tard, it is hurtful.

BECK: No, I know.

MCGINLEY: And it’s like a spike right in my sternum...

BECK: I know. I feel the same way.

MCGINLEY: .. and all caregivers of people with special needs. And so just to be aware it’s hurtful.

BECK: OK.

MCGINLEY: What you choose to do with that, you know, go with God. I’m not going to tell you how to talk, but now you know it’s hurtful.

BECK: John, thank you very much. If you want information on the Buddy Walk, please visit BuddyWalk.org.

I am definitely not out to defend anyone, however generally speaking when someone uses the term or terms they are not out to degrade or insult the handicapped. It is basically a generalization for someone that is having a mentally slow moment. I would think a big offender of someone who actually is making fun is Carlos Mencia. I think he goes a little far with the whole de dee dee thing. Even though he is still generalizing people with brain-farts, just the gestures he makes when saying it puts him over the edge in my opinion.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone with my observations. It was not my intention.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand the problem.

Originally, the word "retard" was used to describe mentally challenged individuals. It became an insult word - like "idiot". "Retard" fell out of use, and it was replaced by mentally challenged... then mentally handicapped... then "mentally handicapable"... How far is political correctness going to go?

I'm sorry that you find that word offensive. I don't see it as such. Idiot, stupid, retard, and moron are synonyms in my book... They're not meant to belittle disabled people...

Have you heard the expressions, "What are you deaf??!?" or "What, are you blind!?"? Do deaf and blind people find those offensive? My brother is hearing impared. I joke around with him all the time, asking the former... he goes "umm, duh!" (He's not deaf, he wears hearing aids)

quote Originally posted by Saxman: My own personal rant - shared by many in my same position. I admit I used to use the phrases, "You're retarded." or "Don't be a retard,"

that's why i stick with my old personal favorite, "Are you f**king stupid?"

seriously i know where you are coming from. my wife's cousin has Down's. changes a lot of things when you get to know someone with a disease.

I hate all this PC bullshite. I'd never call a "mentally handicapable" person a "Retard", but I reserve the use as slang.

P.S, I love John C. McGinley, and the rest of the Scrubs crew. Best show on TV!

saxman, i think you and i have had this conversation before.

i dated a woman for 5 years that worked at a county funded group home.

the entire staff and most of the parents refered to the clinets as "tards".

from what i saw, both the staff and the parents used it as a word of endearment.

and about the whole picking on someone that cant defend themselves, have you ever been hit by a person's cane over and over again. because you are NOT ALLOWED to take their cane away from them.
you're allowed to try to block it.
but you cant stop it.

and when was the last time you cleaned the walls when a client thought it would be fun to use poop as fingerpainting supplies in their bedroom.

[This message has been edited by buddycraigg (edited 11-29-2006).]

I have a whole lot of things I could say here but it would probably result in my getting tarred and feathered, even by those who have already expressed "tamer" versions of my opinion...

PC = Bullshit.

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'87 Fiero GT, Automatic, 153k miles, stock everything, just trying to make it all work again.

Like I said - I'm not here to argue - or to tell you what to say, just to make people aware that it hurts.

Whether you think "tard" is a term of "endearment" or just what "they" are called, this was just meant to give an idea of how it affects two people.

Hell, you may be right and McGinley and I may be the only two people who are hurt by those words.

Thanks for reading!

Saxman, when you have had a "retarded" child for 28 years as I have, you get used to all the comments and stares. It isn't too bad when they are young, but it gets worse when they mature.

This picture has been floating around the net, and I have seen it here on PFF too.

(Picture removed at Saxman's request)

Most everyone gets a laugh out of this image...EXCEPT the people that have children that participate in the Special Olympics.

The only suggestion I have is to grow a thick skin...you'll need it.

Tim

[This message has been edited by FrugalFiero (edited 11-30-2006).]

I thought I had posted on the thread linked to, but after looking threw the thread I see I hadn't.

Our Daughter Amanda is Special Needs. She has the mind of a 5 year old and goes now to a regular High School in a special needs class. The teachers are very understanding of the children in this class.

We host a picnic every spring for her class, they all come for the food, day on the farm, ride the horses. It is just our way of trying to make the lives of these young adults just a little better.

We also have one of the local nursing homes that stops by once a week with a few of the clients that are special needs. They love being able to pat, brush, hold, and for those able to, ride.

I myself still find myself sometimes using the term retard. But never to anyone who has a disability. I know how much it hurts people of diminished capacity.

The people that have these problems are no less of a person, human, or anything else.

As a matter of fact some of the people we have run into threw our different associations with them. Are more human, adult, grown up than some of the people we see on our day to day living.

Just for those that haven’t seen Amanda before here is a picture of her and Melanie on her 18th birthday with the golf cart I had customized for her.

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: It became an insult word - like "idiot".

I'll expand on this by adding that before they were insults, "Idiot" and "moron" used to be technical terms for levels of intellectual deficiency, much the same way "retarded" used to mean "mentally handicapped".

Ed

quote Originally posted by FrugalFiero: Saxman, when you have had a "retarded" child for 28 years as I have, you get used to all the comments and stares. It isn't too bad when they are young, but it gets worse when they mature. This picture has been floating around the net, and I have seen it here on PFF too. Most everyone gets a laugh out of this image...EXCEPT the people that have children that participate in the Special Olympics. The only suggestion I have is to grow a thick skin...you'll need it. Tim

Gotta tell ya, Tim - you have certainly helped thicken my skin today by posting that photo. I should look at it every day until it means nothing to me. It may be a while, but thanks for the lesson. I'm sure I'll thank you later when these kind of things don't ruin my morning.

Come to think of it, I probably won't be back on this thread for a while because of that photo. Maybe when my skin is thicker...

RETARDED: "To turn back the "advance" on the timing on a small block chevrolet engine." Thats the only context i used this word in now as for people, I have always said simply "why are you so stupid, or WTF? " LOL

As for PC, I think its BS, but since I am in the Military, officialy I have no opinion whatsoever.

S. Williams

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1988 Fiero Formula T-tops
CJB 143 of 1252 "factory T-top cars"

quote Originally posted by edhering: I'll expand on this by adding that before they were insults, "Idiot" and "moron" used to be technical terms for levels of intellectual deficiency, much the same way "retarded" used to mean "mentally handicapped". Ed

Interesting.

Next time you use the word retarded, ask yourself if your own child tipped over his/her milk at the dinner table and you called them "retarded" do you think that is a term of endearment? How would your child feel?

My youngest son, Jimmy is severely retarded. He attends a state school for the severely handicapped here in MO. We were foster parents for about 10 years in the 80's and early 90's. Jimmy came to us in early 1982. He was born normal, but his biological parents starved him to death. Yes DEATH. He was clinically dead when they brought him to the hospital in February 1982. He was 4 months old and weighed 4 POUNDS!
The nurse could hold him in the palm of her hand.

When he came to us he had gained back most of his weight. The DFS worker gave him to us with everything he owned, 1 pair of sweat pants, 1 teeshirt and 1 sock.

He had suffered severe brain damage as a result of his biological parents abuse. In early 1984 he suffered a severe seizure which caused further brain damage.

Jimmy, is doing very well today. He works at a sheltered workshop in the school he goes to, he is 25 now, but has the mind of a 4 year old. Think about this before you say the word. Although Jimmy does not understand it, my wife and I do..................Paul


James Andrew Prince (picture taken 3 months before his seizure)

I have been known to use the word.

I'm sorry for doing so.

I remember a CSI episode where a cowboy made fun of and killed a ranch helper who had Down's.... He called him a retard to his face and in front of everyone.

By the end of the episode Gill Grissom looked him square in the eye after proving he murdered him, and stated... "The definition or the word Retard, means to hold something back"- then told the cowboy, when he goes off to jail, thay HE would in fact be retarded (Held back).
I just thought to myself (because of the definition), that anyone who uses the term, is in fact holding themselves back (morally speaking). Kinda ironic.

I think we as a society concentrate so much on looks (TV & Mag ads), that anything different is either "Ugly" or labeled defective. We live in a stereotypical prejudice world, and the MAJORITY of us are infact "retarded" going by the text book definition.... we hold OURSELVES back.

I get in this arguement with friends and co workers all the time. Most people find it funny to call someone a retard and wave their limp wrist over their chest and make funny noises. I do not. I think it is disrespectful, ignorant and rude. I have resorted to telling these individuals to wait until they have a child or children, and see how god sorts it out.

I wonder if michael richards had attacked people using the word retard if anything would have come of it? yet when a more vocal group feel offended the entire country gets to talk about it. Maybe the meek and feeble should start making a bigger stink when they feel infringed upon. How about they start hiring comedians to go on stage rants and calling people names to get it out there. Maybe a celebrity can molest opras couch in the name of retarted people. Mentally handicapped folks need a better PR department.

i guess it's all in how it is being used.
i have a lot of homosexual friends, they (and I) use the words fag and gay all the time.
but to us it's not a bad thing cause it's not said in a hateful fashon. just as i would never use "tard" in a hateful way.

[This message has been edited by buddycraigg (edited 11-30-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Saxman: Like I said - I'm not here to argue - or to tell you what to say, just to make people aware that it hurts. Whether you think "tard" is a term of "endearment" or just what "they" are called, this was just meant to give an idea of how it affects two people. Hell, you may be right and McGinley and I may be the only two people who are hurt by those words. Thanks for reading!

thank you for your observation.

I too sort of have the term retard drilled in my head from use when I was young. I did not relize. that when joking with my friends out in public, I might offend someone around me that has a specialy challanged kid.

and its definitly not my intent. so if by doing somthing as little as droping the use of one little word from being used in my vocabulary joke about my friends. will make sure I don't hurt anyone ones feelings. then I can deal with that.

thank you for opening my eyes to some stuff I never really paid much atinttion to or really gave any thought too

quote Originally posted by buddycraigg: just as i would never use "tard" in a hateful way.

Yes, I agree.

Children need to be made aware of the term also. If two adults want to call each other retard, then I guess that is up to them. The word "retard" in the context of one's intelligence, is derogatory and hurtful. It hurts the child (if he can understand it) and the parents.

While I believe in the "sticks and stones" doctrine, words like retard, chubby, fatso, ugly etc. are harmful to children. I think it best to teach children that these are hurtful words and one should be tolerant of people’s differences, weather it be their color or their level of intelligence.

I think if you can explain to children what the term means and how it can hurt people, they will understand...............Paul

Frugalfiero, would you do me a personal favor and remove that special olympics gag photo? I would really appreciate it.

I guess I'm not ready for "thick skin" just yet.

Thanks in advance.

quote Originally posted by fieroluv: It is basically a generalization for someone that is having a mentally slow moment. .

In my experience, it is usually the last desperate act of someone who has lost an arguement and can't muster the brain power to think of anything intelligent to say in reply.

Believe with, with a handle like "Toddster" I have been called every possible conjugation of the aforementioned insult.

I don't think it is denegrading to retarded people, nor do I personally feel offended since I happen to know my own IQ from a proctored exam years ago.

Now if I actually WAS retarded and someone called me that, I would undoubtedly feel offended.

quote Originally posted by 84fierotrevor: are the real parents still behind bars where they should be?

They didn't get so much as a parking ticket (that I know of). DFS (Division of Family Services) told us that the local procesutor felt that the parents were "low functioning" and truly did not understand what they had done.

The parents requested to visit Jimmy at our home about a year after he came to us. I told DFS that they could as long as there were two social workers present (in case they were to accidentially walk into my fist several times) and that they could not touch him. So they came, we showed them Jimmy's room, his CHEST FULL OF CLOTHES and HOW HE LIKED TO EAT FOOD!

The mother cried a lot (TOO BAD) and the father sat there with a blank stare and this annoying smirk on his face. The only good thing that came from the visit was that we found out she was PREGNANT, and her due date.

So around her due date we contacted the local prosecutor where they lived (southern MO. can't remember the town) and sent him photographs of Jimmy when he was first admitted to the hospital (4 lbs. which I still have the photos, but are so graphic that you would probably chuck your lunch). The prosecutor went to a judge and DFS took that baby, literally from the mothers arms at the hospital and put her (Amanda) in protective custody.

As far as I know they never saw her again and she is doing great and has been adopted by another family. I WISH Jimmy would have had the same chance at a normal life.........Paul

quote Originally posted by Saxman: I guess I'm not ready for "thick skin" just yet.

Ya gotta grow into it.

I'd advise you to do it least you spend a lot of wasted time being offended by a "word" when you could otherwise be making progress in your world. And that would be a retarded situation.

quote Originally posted by Paul Prince: Children need to be made aware of the term also. If two adults want to call each other retard, then I guess that is up to them. The word "retard" in the context of one's intelligence, is derogatory and hurtful. It hurts the child (if he can understand it) and the parents. While I believe in the "sticks and stones" doctrine, words like retard, chubby, fatso, ugly etc. are harmful to children. I think it best to teach children that these are hurtful words and one should be tolerant of people’s differences, weather it be their color or their level of intelligence.

Agree 100%

We're adults. We can choose our words, so please let us. However, children shouldn't use any of those words - because they hurt people.

If I called my friend Fatty McFat-fat, he'd laugh, then probably punch me. If I called him that in the 3rd grade... jeez, it probably would have had devastating results.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Agree 100% We're adults. We can choose our words, so please let us. However, children shouldn't use any of those words - because they hurt people. If I called my friend Fatty McFat-fat, he'd laugh, then probably punch me. If I called him that in the 3rd grade... jeez, it probably would have had devastating results.

The ONLY problem with that philosphy is that this is a cycle.

Adults say it.. kids hear it.. kids repeat it.. kids hurt someone..the victim grows "Thick skin".. That kids grows up and allows this to perpetuate.

Sorry, but I don't go along with any of this PC stuff. While I don't make a habit of insulting retarded people (they've got it bad enough as is), I'm not going to allow my thoughts and words to be censored to avoid offending people.

I could go off on a big rant about political correctness (which I prefer to call "feel-good fascism"), but I'll spare you the trouble. I wouldn't want to irritate that thin skin of yours.

quote Originally posted by intlcutlass: The ONLY problem with that philosphy is that this is a cycle. Adults say it.. kids hear it.. kids repeat it.. kids hurt someone..the victim grows "Thick skin".. That kids grows up and allows this to perpetuate.

So stop saying it in front of kids. Cycle broken. I've never used offensive language in front of kids. Not that hard to do.....

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: I wouldn't want to irritate that thin skin of yours.

Here I got em fixed up. Go for it

I used to use the word as a young man.
I stopped long ago.
I grew up knowing a kid with Downs.
I have a friend who has the extreme pleasure of having a child with Downs.
I don't nesisarily find the word cruel, but I do find it insensitive.

When my Niece started using the word, just like all her friends at school, I got her to replace it with "Rejected", as in "You're rejected!", "That's rejected!", etc.
Now, all her friends are doing it to!

I think I may have actually done something good, for once!

Wait till your parents call you a dumb ***

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: Sorry, but I don't go along with any of this PC stuff.

I don't go along with PC stuff, either. I hate it.

But why are you commenting on that in THIS thread? You said you don't go along with THIS pc stuff.

What did Saxman say like INFINITY times now? He just ASKED people to consider it. He just ASKED people to be aware that there is a segment of the population already hurting from their life situation and making a post INFORMING people that using the word retard is often adding more hurt.

What did Glen Beck say? He said he didn't want any attempts at socially banning the word. To which McGinley replied, "What you choose to do with that, you know, go with God. I’m not going to tell you how to talk, but now you know it’s hurtful. "


Political Correctness is when you or a group decides that something is bad, and then socially tries to punish those that do or say it.


Political Correctness is NOT having an informational post or discussion about how something is hurtful, and asking people to consider that, and then do whatever they want. Saxman nor McGinley tried to censor your thoughts or words under threat of socially castigating you for using them.


I'm glad you will stand up to PCness. I'll join you. But you didn't stand up to PCness in your post and in this thread.

quote Originally posted by Saxman: Frugalfiero, would you do me a personal favor and remove that special olympics gag photo? I would really appreciate it. I guess I'm not ready for "thick skin" just yet. Thanks in advance.

Yeah, I will remove it. To be fair, you will meet alot of people along the way that will treat your son with respect, just as they would any other person they meet. Those people will help you forget about the crappy stuff.

quote Originally posted by Saxman: Frugalfiero, would you do me a personal favor and remove that special olympics gag photo? I would really appreciate it.

quote Originally posted by Frugalfiero: Yeah, I will remove it..

Why can't the WHOLE World be like that?
You both are great examples of civility.
I applaud you both.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 11-30-2006).]

Thanks, Frugal. I hope Bryan is doing well.

Frontal Lobe - WE HAVE A WINNER! I couldn't have said it better myself (again)

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: But why are you commenting on that in THIS thread? You said you don't go along with THIS pc stuff.

From my point of view, it does resemble political correctness. I deliberately did not to go into detail why it does, because I knew I would offend several people in doing so.