"the beauty of the 2nd amendment is it will not be needed until the government tries to take it away -thomas jefferson"

http://www.offensivestuff.com/wordpress/?p=810

AMMUNITION BAN BILLS ON THE MOVE IN ILLINOIS GENERAL ASSEMBLY

A pair of ammunition ban bills are up for hearing in the House Executive Committee this week. If enacted, either of these bills would effectively ban the purchase of ammunition in Illinois. The bills in question are HB 4269 sponsored by Rep. Monique Davis (D-Chicago), and HB 4349 sponsored by Rep. Naomi Jakobsson (D-Champaign).

Here is what passage of either of these bills would mean to you:

1. Ammunition manufacturers would be required to imprint a secret code on cartridge casings so that the purchaser of the ammunition could be identified.

2. When you purchase ammunition, that secret code would be registered to your name.

3. All your ammunition purchases would be registered with the Illinois State Police.

4. You would be responsible for all eternity for ammunition registered to you.

5. It would be in your best interest to destroy all expended ammunition casings because an unaccounted for empty casing could be used to frame you for a crime you did not commit.

6. You would have to surrender all unregistered ammunition you now own to the Illinois State Police.

7. Reloading would be banned.

8. The Illinois Department of Revenue would be authorized to place a tax on ammunition and raise that tax any time for any reason.

9. Taxes and increased manufacturing costs would raise the price of a box of .45 ammo to $200 or more.

10. Gun ownership would become too costly for most people.

WHAT YOU MUST DO TO HELP SAVE YOUR GUN RIGHTS:

1. Call Rep. Monique Davis� office at (217) 782-0010 and POLITELY tell the person that answers that you are a law-abiding gun owner and you would oppose Rep. Davis� attempt to ban ammunition.

2. Call Rep. Naomi Jakobsson�s offce at (217) 558-1009 and POLITELY tell the person that answers that you are a law-abiding gun owner and you would oppose Rep. Jakobsson�s attempt to ban ammunition.

3. Call each of the following members of the House Executive Committee and POLITELY tell whoever answers the phone that you OPPOSE HB4269 and HB4349 and that you would like them to vote against those bills in the Executive Committee. Remember, you represent the gun owners of this state, so BE POLITE:
Rep. Dan Burke (D-Chicago) (217) 782-1117
Rep Joseph Lyons (D-Chicago) (217) 782-8400
Rep. Dan Brady (R-Bloomington) (217) 782-1118
Rep. Eddie Acevedo (D-Chicago) (217) 782-2855
Rep. Maria Antonia Berrios (D-Chicago) (217) 558-1032
Rep. Bob Biggins (R-Elmhurst) (217) 782-6578
Rep Michael Bradley (D-Chicago) (217) 782-8117
Rep. Brent Hassert (R-Romeoville) (217) 782-4179
Rep. Jim Meyer (R-Naperville) (217) 782-8028
Rep. Robert Molaro (D-Chicago) (217) 782-5280
Rep. Bob Rita (D-Crestwood) (217) 558-1000
Rep. Angelo Saviano (R-River Grove) (217) 782-3374
Rep. Arthur Turner (D-Chicago) (217) 782-8116

4. Please pass this alert along to all your gun-owning friends and ask them to make calls as well.

Remember! gun control is a disease, you are the cure!

quote 6. You would have to surrender all unregistered ammunition you now own to the Illinois State Police.

They gonna do a house to house search for it?

muzzleloaders leave no casings.

Yep the gubment has the perfect plan to fade the 2nd amendment out of existance, don't flat out ban it, just slowly and quietly make things more difficult. Its perfect. This bill is bullsh!t and they'll just keep sneekin them in as long as people dont do anything about it. The things that this government does makes me absoutly sick. By the way, Thomas Jefferson was a great man, all the fathers were.

Fireworks are illegal in Iowa. It just means we have to drive to Missouri to get 3-5 years worth.
What with gasoline going up, I might have to get 10 years worth and work a deal for some friends.
I 'm thinking they have low-tax smokes too. I might have to take Mom's Buick?

Seriously though, this law is just to make Nanycrats feel good. Maybe they're trying do get the idiot vote, to show that 'Hey I'm tough on crime'?
Look what happened to the 18th amendment, it lost alot of tax revenue, made for an underground market for Alcohol that lead to organised crime groups that are still around today. Heck, the US military can't keep bullets out of the hands of the wackos in Iran, but we need to keep them out hands of Illinois citizens?
You folks in Illinois need to get some bricks and start hitting some people up aginst the side of their heads?

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Ol' Paint, 88 Base coupe auto.
Turning white on top, like owner.
Leaks a little, like owner.
Doesn't smoke....... OK, we're trying to quit.

quote Originally posted by DtheC: get some bricks and start..

ban bricks! and clay! and mortar!

I saw the part where ammunition would be expensive, but I missed the part where it would be banned.

quote Originally posted by WhiteDevil88: I saw the part where ammunition would be expensive, but I missed the part where it would be banned.

8. The Illinois Department of Revenue would be authorized to place a tax on ammunition and raise that tax any time for any reason.

9. Taxes and increased manufacturing costs would raise the price of a box of .45 ammo to $200 or more.


Cool.. just need to set up a gun/ammo shop just over the state line in a friendly state.

"Liberty has never come from the government. Liberty has always come from the subjects of it. The history of liberty is a history of resistance." - Woodrow Wilson

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

Doesn't seem like we're too far away, now does it?

[This message has been edited by OKflyboy (edited 03-01-2008).]

it appears not to be an actual ban, but unless youre rich it has the same effect.

quote Originally posted by buddycraigg: "the beauty of the 2nd amendment is it will not be needed until the government tries to take it away -thomas jefferson"

Very few people today realize that the 2nd amendment was intended to keep the government in check, not to allow the people to defend themselves from foreign invaders or hunting.

quote Rep. Monique Davis (D-Chicago)Rep. Naomi Jakobsson (D-Champaign). 7. Reloading would be banned.

So, wait, there are Democrats that are supporting an law that would generate more sales for a corporation? [/sarcasm]

Just how stupid are these people anyway? Making ammunition illegal/harder to get will only keep law abiding citizens from getting/keeping it. A criminal WILL still get/have it.

Note to self:

Next time I go on a murder spree, pick-up my casings since they can be traced back to me but the bullets in the bodies can't.

Check.

Yeah, that #8 has got to go. I can appreciate the new technology, and how it can be used to fight crime. I can understand some small manufacturing cost increase, although I don't understand why the government would have to mandate something like this, and then tax the Hell out of it. I would think in this society manufacturers would voluntarily participate and absorb the minimal cost.

Freakin politicians. Well, maybe a lot of those bullets will be hot from the barrel when they are "surrendered".

quote Originally posted by buddycraigg: 4. You would be responsible for all eternity for ammunition registered to you.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Note to self: Next time I go on a murder spree, pick-up my casings since they can be traced back to me but the bullets in the bodies can't. Check.

Or, sneak into your neighbor's house and take their ammo, and not worry about them.

quote Originally posted by lurker: it appears not to be an actual ban, but unless youre rich it has the same effect.

I guess they got the idea from the Chris Rock joke about making bullets cost $5000, gangstas and thugs won't be so willing to spray down the neighborhood with an AK.

Of course, that will make for some really expensive hunting trips.

quote Originally posted by WhiteDevil88: gangstas and thugs won't be so willing to spray down the neighborhood with an AK.

gangstas and thugs will, by definition, steal their ammo.

quote Originally posted by OKflyboy: Doesn't seem like we're too far away, now does it?

We're a long, long, long way away, nobody in this country cares anymore, they're all concerned about the American Idol results show, Big Brother (the show, not what the government is doing), Big Macs, and keeping their heads in the sand (since doing otherwise would require more work).

The sheeple of America are fat, dumb, and happy (after they've gotten their anti-depressants), so they all trust their "friend" from the government to tell them what is in their own best interest.

Ugh, maybe it's time I emigrated.

quote Originally posted by lurker: gangstas and thugs will, by definition, steal their ammo.

But now they'll know who the ammo was stolen from! Brilliant!

The thing is do you actually think it will pass. It sounds so outrageous that I would assume that it probably won't.

quote Originally posted by The Poopsmith: The thing is do you actually think it will pass. It sounds so outrageous that I would assume that it probably won't.

Hmmm, I thought the OP said that it had left committee, but after reading it again it says its going to committee. Hopefully it will die on the table, so to speak.

[This message has been edited by OKflyboy (edited 03-01-2008).]

How possible would it be to go to a range and find casings and make them usable again?

quote Originally posted by The Poopsmith: The thing is do you actually think it will pass. It sounds so outrageous that I would assume that it probably won't.

The problem I have is that they are actually proposing it. It would effectively neuter the 2nd Amendment in the state of Illinois, and as far as I'm concerned, that is enough to qualify it as unConstitutional. Our "protectors" in the government need to remember that some of us fear them more than some criminal. The criminal is just breaking the law, the "protector" is making it so that I can't protect myself, legally speaking. Ever brought a knife to a gunfight? I didn't think so, otherwise you wouldn't be here.

With anything the government does, I always assume the worst.

quote Originally posted by IEatRice: How possible would it be to go to a range and find casings and make them usable again?

Very possible. The range I currently use asks everyone to sort and save their casings. If you're a reloader you're welcome to keep them for yourself, if you're not they ask that you turn them in before you leave so they can reload them.

[This message has been edited by OKflyboy (edited 03-01-2008).]

quote Originally posted by lurker: it appears not to be an actual ban, but unless youre rich it has the same effect.

Right, they don't dare have an outright ban yet here in the midwest. Most of us can still read the constitution and there would be a violent protest.

But if we cant afford the ammunition, weapons, or cant pass unrealistic tests to get our permit people wont notice.

reloading is easy, and can be very cheap. ive reloaded literally thousands of mystery cases picked up at ranges (after checking for split necks and such, naturally). i have a lee loader that costs about 20$, and a 300$ dillon progressive press. the dillon is faster. it takes about 2 minutes to change the press over to reload a different round. i have dies for 30-06, 30-40 krag, .223, .45 acp, .45 LC, 38 spcl, and a couple more. and yes, i have a little stockpile of ammo. a little attention to detail can safely produce high-quality ammo at about 1/2 the cost of new store-bought.

[This message has been edited by lurker (edited 03-01-2008).]

quote Originally posted by lurker: reloading is easy, and can be very cheap. ive reloaded literally thousands of mystery cases picked up at ranges (after checking for split necks and such, naturally). i have a lee loader that costs about 20$, and a 300$ dillon progressive press. the dillon is faster. a little attention to detail can safely produce high-quality ammo at about 1/2 the cost of new store-bought.

I've been toying with the idea of getting into reloading. Any suggestions on good info (be it website or book)?

[This message has been edited by OKflyboy (edited 03-01-2008).]

quote Originally posted by OKflyboy: I've been toying with the idea of getting into reloading. Any suggestions on good info (be it website or book)?

there are several manufacturers of good equipment, and choosing between them is like picking between ford, chevy, dodge or nissan. ive never seen a bad reloading rig, just some are better in one way or another. if you want to automate the process as much as possible (setting up an illegal ammo factory in illinois? a legal one right across the state line?) you can spend well over $600, but if you like to lovingly fondle each cartridge, you can do it for about $50.
lee, dillon, hornady come to mind, but there are others. dillon has pretty girls in their catalog google is your friend.

you can mix and match tools to a certain extent, but the press and dies need to come from the same manufacturer. scales, measures, case trimmers etc you can mix and match.

http://www.dillonprecision.com/
http://www.leeprecision.com/
http://www.midwayusa.com
http://www.rcbs.com/
there are more, but this should keep you busy for a while.

for reload data, i use Hornady's 4th edition (about 8 years old) 2 volume Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading,
though there are plenty of other authoritative sources.

you can pick up most of this stuff at one of the larger gun shows. most of it is also on e-bay, but it's best to do your homework first.

[This message has been edited by lurker (edited 03-01-2008).]

quote Originally posted by lurker: there are several manufacturers of good equipment, and choosing between them is like picking between ford, chevy, dodge or nissan. ive never seen a bad reloading rig, just some are better in one way or another. if you want to automate the process as much as possible (setting up an illegal ammo factory in illinois? a legal one right across the state line?) you can spend well over $600, but if you like to lovingly fondle each cartridge, you can do it for about $50. lee, dillon, hornady come to mind, but there are others. dillon has pretty girls in their catalog google is your friend. you can mix and match tools to a certain extent, but the press and dies need to come from the same manufacturer. scales, measures, case trimmers etc you can mix and match.

Cool, thanks. I've been checking out the Dillon website. The $340 press looks to be right up my alley. Thanks again!

quote Originally posted by OKflyboy: Cool, thanks. I've been checking out the Dillon website. The $340 press looks to be right up my alley. Thanks again!

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/default.asp has a lot of reloading stuff too.

quote Originally posted by OKflyboy: checking out the Dillon website.

pretty girls got your attention, eh?

quote Originally posted by lurker: pretty girls got your attention, eh?

http://www.dillonprecision.com/

Actually I haven't see any girls yet...

[This message has been edited by OKflyboy (edited 03-01-2008).]

quote Originally posted by OKflyboy: http://www.dillonprecision.com/ Actually I haven't see any girls yet...

I get their catalogs and they are on the cover. I get some 'blue streak' ( something like that ) reloading catalog thats like that as well.

Not that i am against pretty women in the least, but its a reloading catalog... ( or car book, etc.. )

http://www.dillonprecision....nd_Posters-8-12.html

Unlike some postings on this topic... This one isn't bogus or exagerated much. They are pretty bad if they get passed.

Full text of bills above.
HB 4269
HB 4349

These bills appear to be based on other propsals to require taggants/microstamping/coding ammo that have been running around for at least a decade.

All they do is add another item to the black market. The MD gun registry is a perfect example of a Gov't control that has done Nothing to stop or even solve a crime. It wastes millions of tax dollars a year for no benifit at all.

Il is a small enough state that illegal ammo can be driven in with relative ease at fairly low cost. Even if such a stamping requirement was nation wide, there is so much ammo running around that criminals will have little problem getting un stamped ammo.

The UK and other countries with major gun bans have seen Gun crimes Increase. The UK has armed police with Guns and is now adding Taser as Knife crimes are also skyrocketing.

Home invasion in D.C. is also pretty common since criminals know that there are no guns around for people to protect themselves with.


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Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top of every forum page...)

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 03-01-2008).]

They can take away my guns but they can't take away my slingshot.

quote Originally posted by DtheC: Fireworks are illegal in Iowa. It just means we have to drive to Missouri to get 3-5 years worth. What with gasoline going up, I might have to get 10 years worth and work a deal for some friends. I 'm thinking they have low-tax smokes too. I might have to take Mom's Buick?

Yep.. all bordering states are just helping us increase our revenue! Now people will just drive over here to St Louis to buy their guns and ammunition, as they have for Gas, Cigs, Casinos (they have one or two now), and as DtheC said Fireworks. Heck even a high percentage of thieves come from IL to rob st louis then go back to IL!

Theres something really wrong with IL lately.. they trying to outlaw EVERYTHING? they just pass a whole state smoking in Biz ban.. and now this?? Whats next? nobody over 75 is allowed to live there cause senior citizens pose a threat on the road?

BTW, about the microstamping. what if the killer is actually good with firearms and does his own reloading with old shells and his own everything? so there is no stamping. and then goes and guns down 50 people with the ammo leaving no clues as to track him down. Sure the stamping will catch quite a few but a well thought out plan would get you past anything. ((humm this is what happens when you stop 3/4 of the way down and post.. LOL guess this is covered.. LOL))

[This message has been edited by DjDraggin (edited 03-01-2008).]

quote Originally posted by OKflyboy: Very possible. The range I currently use asks everyone to sort and save their casings. If you're a reloader you're welcome to keep them for yourself, if you're not they ask that you turn them in before you leave so they can reload them.

So I could go to a range, pick up a few rounds, reload them, kill someone, and all of a sudden that innocent person is suspect #1? Good to know they're making it easier for criminals.

psst! hey, over here! wanna buy some unmarked shell casings?
Ive got 4 five gallon buckets full of used brass out in the garage. i'm gonna be rich!

[This message has been edited by lurker (edited 03-01-2008).]

if reloading is going to be illegal i wonder if having reloaded cartridges will be illegal too