When going from regular oil in an older vehicle to synthetic (something the likes of Mobil 1) do you need to do anything like use semi synthetic for a while, or can you just change it and filter as you would normally, but put in Synthetic instead? I don't want old regular oil in there degrading the quality of teh new syn, and also heard some syn isn't "compatible" with regular oil.

I have an 80's Ford truck that sits more than it is driven. It is often driven in winters where very cold startups after sitting for a long time will happen. I want to switch to synthetic for the reasons of better friction protection and longer storage without oil expiration.

Be prepared for leak city.

Like Patrick said, avoid synthetic like the plague, unless you really enjoy oil leaks. And it will leak. If your concerned about cold starts, maybe put some Lucas oil additive or similar in with the oil change.

I thought about it, I figured this would be my test vehicle, since most of the syn manufacturers deny you will get leaks from switching.
I was also wondering though if there was some oil system sealer of some sort that would help guard against that happening.

NICE avatar Patrick!

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Be prepared for leak city.

Could be, seen that happen before or actually, I've been told by friends that it happened. I run Mobil One in several vehicles, my Dodge Ram (purchased new), my 3800SC Formula (new engine on installation), and my wife's Jeep Liberty, also purchased new. I haven't put it into engines with a lot of miles on it because I'm told they will leak where the seals are older/worn/ect...... I know a guy that uses it in his lawn mower (very old) though, it may leak, don't know but he sure has a pretty lawn. Must not leak too much.

Ron

I am definitely a proponent of synthetic, but for a truck that does nothing but sit just put regular in it.

I will guarantee you you wont ever have problems with it due to the oil.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: NICE avatar Patrick!

Thanks! (I'll copy it here as it will be changed after the New Year.)

In regards to the leaking, it'll vary depending on the amount of wear on the various engine oil seals. I put synthetic oil in the GT that I bought in the spring (it had been sitting for six years). There was very little sign of leaking prior to the change, but there definitely is evidence of oil leaking now. It's not too bad though. The bottom and sides of the engine have become slimey, but there is little to no actual dripping of oil onto the pavement. In my case I suspect it's the valve cover gaskets leaking a bit.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 12-17-2008).]

I run synthetic in my older Supra, but the engine has also been rebuilt less than 10,000 miles ago.

I'd only consider switching to synthetic on lower mileage engines. I wouldn't dare put synthetic in a high mileage engine, as some of the deposits that are currently on the seals could be what's keeping the motor from leaking. Synthetic oil has very good detergents in the additive packs, and those detergents could break up some of those very deposits that are keeping your seals from leaking.

That said, if you do switch to synthetic, you don't need to gradually change from dino oil to synthetic. Just make the change, but be prepared to see your engine spring new leaks or consume more oil.

On a side note, Mobil 1 uses a hydro-cracked Group III base stock for their oil. Yep, that's right, good old dino oil; so it's not really a "true" synthetic oil. If you're going to run a Group III base stock (not a true) synthetic oil, Pennzoil Platinum also uses a Group III base stock; but it also has much better additive packs than Mobil 1. Basically, you're getting better oil for your money. (Group IV and Group V base stock oils are the only oils that are "true" synthetic oils, and are the only synthetics that I run in my Supra; but if you go with a Group IV or Group V base stock synthetic, expect to pay $6.50 and up per quart).

[This message has been edited by Deabionni (edited 12-17-2008).]

replace all your seals first and you'll be fine. this past summer i switched over 2 older 150k+ vehicles and both started leaking like sieves. on a new or fresh engine i'm sure it's wonderful.

question:
it's my understanding that they make synthetic oil from used, recycled oil. is this correct? if so, what's so synthetic about synthetic oil?

[This message has been edited by lurker (edited 12-17-2008).]

quote Originally posted by lurker: question: it's my understanding that they make synthetic oil from used, recycled oil. is this correct? if so, what's so synthetic about synthetic oil?

Group 3 synthetics are crude oils that have been highly refined, they are not considered synthetics anywhere but the US.

Group 4 and 5 are actual synthetics that have been synthesized from different compounds for high controllability of their molecular structure.

Any "synthetics" that are 3-4 dollars a qt are group 3, any that are 7+ are group 4-5.

OK, so am I to understand that Mobile One Fully Synthetic Oil is not Synthetic?

Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA...sel_Truck_5W-40.aspx

Fully synthetic Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 with SuperSyn is engineered for hard-working diesel engines. It offers outstanding wear protection, oil consumption control and performance reserve. Whether hauling, towing heavy loads, driving off-road, or just dealing with stop-and-go driving, Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck provides outstanding protection for diesel engines.



Engineered to help extend engine life in modern turbo-charged diesel engines, this formula meets the latest industry standards, including CJ- 4, and exceeds the requirements for both light duty and heavy duty diesel equipment.

Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck with SuperSyn reduces low-temperature sludge build-up and high-temperature deposits through excellent thermal and oxidation stability. High temperatures pose little threat as Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck maintains its viscosity and has enhanced oil film strength, which helps to reduce engine scuffing and bore polishing. It also provides wear protection and reduced oil consumption with its shear stability.

Benefits of Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck:

Exceptional resistance to high-temperature varnish and low-temperature sludge deposits to help keep engines clean.
Its wide viscosity range provides outstanding protection consistent with an SAE 40 grade oil at high temperatures, combined with the easy cold-start performance of a 5W rated oil.
For diesel engines, Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck:

Meets CJ-4, CI-4, and CH-4
Is recommended for diesel-powered pickup trucks built by Ford, General Motors, GMC and Dodge.
Meets diesel engine requirements of Cummins, Powerstroke, Duramax and Navistar.
For more information, see the Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 Product Data Sheet and Material Safety Data Sheet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I'm just guessing here but, the CJ-4, CI-4, and CH-4 makes this real synthetic.

Ron

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 12-17-2008).]

quote Originally posted by blackrams: OK, so am I to understand that Mobile One Fully Synthetic Oil is not Synthetic?

If you're going by what the base stock consists of, then no, it isn't. The base stock is a Group III, which is a highly refined dino oil; but at the end of the day, it's still dino oil. Mobil 1, Castrol Syntec (American, not European formula), Penzoil Platinum, and Quaker State synthetic are all examples of Group III based oils that call themselves synthetic, but aren't.

To be a TRUE synthetic, the base stock MUST be either a Group IV (PAO) or Group V (Ester) based. Both, Group IV and Group V based synthetic oils resist sheer (breakdown), and have much better flow characteristics when cold and hot then their Group III counterparts.

Examples of Group IV oils are: AMSOIL, German Castrol Syntec (European formula), Royal Purple, ect.

The only Group V base stock synthetic oil that I can think of right now, is Red Line. (Group V oils are Ester based, and are mostly used in jet engine applications).

[This message has been edited by Deabionni (edited 12-17-2008).]

quote Originally posted by blackrams: I'm just guessing here but, the CJ-4, CI-4, and CH-4 makes this real synthetic. Ron

No way, even your standard diesel dino oil HAS to conform to those standards..

EDIT: ONE THOUSAND POSTS WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[This message has been edited by 4-mulaGT (edited 12-17-2008).]

Here's some stuff on the Web about Mobil 1, and their refusal to denounce the rumors that they've switched their base stock from a Group IV (PAO) to a Group III (hydrocracked dino) oil.

"In 2006, the results of a gas chromatography test on Mobil 1 5w-30 EP were posted by an industry expert on the popular motor oil discussion website BITOG. It showed the oil to be primarily composed of a less expensive, Group III processed mineral oil. Until this time, Mobil 1 was believed to be a true synthetic, utilizing a Group IV (PAO) base stock. The release of this information has led to a backlash against Exxon Mobil's lubricant products in many automotive communities. Ironically, in 1999, Mobil fought Castrol's change in formulation to a Group III base stock in motor oils being marketed as fully synthetic. Mobil claimed that Castrol was deceiving their customer base, while degrading their products. The National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus eventually ruled that Castrol could continue to market their SynTec line as a fully synthetic motor oil. Exxon Mobil currently refuses to comment on the primary base stock of their Mobil 1 series of oils. This has only added further confusion over the exact definition of the term "synthetic oil."

Also, here's a copy of an email reply from Exxon about the base stock that's being used in Mobil 1; to clarify whether or not the base stock is still Group IV like it used to be, or if they've switched to Group III like they're being accused of.

Originally Posted by Exxon
Question:
Have Group 3 Base Oils Been Substituted for Better PAO Base Oils?
Why does Mobil 1 refuse to specify as to the base oil used in their synthetic products. I remember the Mobil 1 oils in the past proudly proclaimed that it was a PAO based oil. We all know the newer group 3 hydrocracked base oils are much cheaper to use than PAO based oils and are less stable in high temps. It would seem to me that if Mobil 1 still uses the better PAO base oils as their primary base oil, you would want to clarify it among those who are switching to other oils because of the ongoing internet talk that says Mobil has substituted group 3 oils for the better PAO oils. Any comments that would clarify the issue?
-- Wayne Swicegood, Asheboro, NC

Answer:
As we're sure you can understand, ExxonMobil does not discuss formulations publicly,as this information is proprietary. We would rather focus on the advanced technology and proven performance that our engine oils and other products offer to our customers. Mobil 1 is the world’s leading synthetic motor oil and the one chosen by more original equipment manufacturers around the world as factory fill. We want those facts to speak for us so our customers feel confident they are getting a high quality, high performance product that provides ultimate protection to their vehicles."

Basically, they just dodged the question. If they didn't change their formula from PAO, I'm sure they'd be happy to disband the speculation that they've switched to the lesser Group III base stock. Exxon was the first to jump on Castrol for using a Group III stock and calling it a synthetic oil; and now years later, Exxon is doing the exact same thing with Mobil 1.

[This message has been edited by Deabionni (edited 12-17-2008).]

Well, this means my choise is, leaks with syn but longer storage time is ok.

The other is keep using regular oil and I'll have to change it alot more often.

As I understand it, the rules are 3000 miles or 3 months whichever comes first, driven daily or driven once doesn't matter. It breaks down as it sits once you've run it.

Correct?

Heres my first hand knowlege. Mobile One used in any car with many miles of Dino oil use will PROBABLY spout leaks because of the high detergent quality of it. Ive used Castrol Full Synthetic (whether its real synthetic or not) is what Ive put in my cars and didnt create any leaks that werent already leaking, even in my 40 year old Dodge. Friends that did the Mobile One swap in their 60s and 70s cars were leaking lots of oil within a month or less. Some of those ended up tearing engines down for rebuilds and new seals that otherwise wouldnt have needed it. As far as Pennzoil and Quaker State...I wont put either in my lawnmower. Their both great if you love spooning out sludge.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: As I understand it, the rules are 3000 miles or 3 months whichever comes first, driven daily or driven once doesn't matter. It breaks down as it sits once you've run it. Correct?

If you're changing your oil every 3,000 miles, you may be doing more harm then good. Check out this report released fom SAE.

quote Originally Posted by ://www.sae.org "Title: Extended Oil Drain Intervals - Conservation of Resources Or Reduction of Engine Life (Part Ii)" After reading that you may never change your oil again at even 10,000 miles! There are millions of miles of oil analysis that not only prove short duration changes increase wear but also result in a lack of additive activation in the motor. If you own a Jiffy Lube then I would expect you to subscribe to the "3,000 mile Mentality" myth. Oil additives are activated by heat and pressure. Due to the additives having to hold up over time i.e. longer than 10,000 miles the formulations take a certain period of time to become active in protecting the motor. Draining the oil at lets say 3,000 miles simply means the additives have just become active at the point you are draining your oil! In other words you are increasing wear by about 500% doing 3,000 mile drain intervals! Oils that carry the extended drain ratings such as 506.01, 507.00 etc mean that the additives are formulated to remain active for periods up to 2 years, 40,000 kms or 640 hours of usage. Oils like Mobil 1 0w40 are formulated to withstand 400F sump temps WITHOUT breaking down and losing viscosity. Furthermore the oils cannot break down due to the PAO makeup of the oil. These oils do not rely on elastomers like the conventional oils do. This means that the oil can fully protect your motor at any temperature without the concern of thermal break-down and thinning out of grade. If you doubt the 10K oil change intervals perform an oil sample at 1,000 miles. Most cars with a fresh sump of oil will peak out at the 1,000 mile mark. After that the wear metals may increase by only 5-10% over the course of 10,000 miles! Nearly 90% of the engine wear occurs in the first 1,000 miles on an oil change! Increasing oil change frequency increases the duration your engine spends in the activation period of the additives and greatly increases the damage in your motor from failing to follow the guidelines of the manufacturer. Just looking at iron in a VW motor typical readings are around 20-35 ppm after 15,000 miles of use maximum on a motor that has more than 60,000 miles. The oil filter is not capable of filtering this much metal simply because the wear metals are so small they can't be filtered from the oil. Also because there is so little wear metal you do not get wear as a result of the metal being suspended in the oil. Dispersants require time to bond to the wear metals and byproducts in your engine oil. As byproducts such as soot (gasoline or diesel make soot just different sizes which discolor the oil) are created additives coat them and prevent them from clumping and becoming larger. Typical soot particles in diesel oil are in the nanometer range in terms of size 10 times smaller than what any bypass filter can even capture which is rated at 2 microns absolute. Your oil filter in your motor is rated at capturing particles in the 7 micron range with only a 75% first pass rating...Bottom line is your car would last forever if you change the oil every 20,000 miles and NEVER replace the oil filter simply because your motor is not making enough metal or by-products to ever get captured! Oils especially those for diesels can handle upwards of 8% soot, that my friend is a LOT of soot! To put that in perspective a typical motor after 25,000 miles without an oil change or filter change will only have 1% soot in the oil. This oil will appear tar black yet the oil still has 80% of its rated levels of protection remaining! Most oils are limited by time in the sump rather than miles due to sulfur in the fuel. Most gasoline motors can safely go 2 years between changes when using quality oils formulated for extended drains such as Mobil 1 0w40 and Truck and SUV 5w40. These oils along with those sold as VOW 506.01 have very high TBN ratings that neutralize acid formation for upwards of two years (1 year in diesels due to higher sulfur content which causes the acids). Here's the deal, forget the myths about frequent oil changes and basing your perceptions on how the oil looks. The best advice is use a quality oil and drain it at the specified interval. The worst thing you can do to a modern car is over maintain it, yes this is possible due to the very specific regimen that VW engineers figured out to keep your car running at peak performance with maximum durability.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: As I understand it, the rules are 3000 miles or 3 months whichever comes first, driven daily or driven once doesn't matter. It breaks down as it sits once you've run it. Correct?

Back to your original question...why guess? Why not have your oil tested, so you know exactly when you need to change the oil in your engine? You may be changing it before the additive packs in your oil even have a chance to work.

Blackstone Laboratories can test your engine oil for you, and their tests can not only tell you how much life you have left in your oil; but they can also tell you if your engine is showing signs of abnormal wear. (Like traces of gas, antifreeze, combustion gasses, etc.). If you have any questions about that company, then check out their FAQ. It's pretty funny, and worth a read.

You can get your free kit from them here, and they don't charge you for anything until you send them your oil for analysis. Their regular oil analysis costs $22.50, but if you're wanting to know how your oil's additive packs are holding up; then you may want to also have them perform a TBN test for $10 more. Having them perform both test will let you know the condition of your engine, and the oil in your engine; and it will also let you know exactly how long you can run that oil in your engine between changes.

Example: In my Supra, I'm running German Castrol Syntec (European formula) 0W 30, which is a Group IV (PAO) base stock. Knowing what I know of that oil, I know I can easily go 8,000 miles between oil changes with a filter change at the 4,000 mile mark. Now, my oil may still have some life left even after 8,000 miles; but the only way I'll know for sure, is to have it tested. I'll send Blackstone a sample of my oil when I change the filter at 4,000 miles; and I'll have them test the oil and perform the TBN test, so I can see how the oil and additive packs are holding up. Before changing the oil at 8,000 miles, I'll send them another sample. If the TBN (or additive packs) are getting used up, or the wear metals are on the rise; then I'll know it's time to change the oil. If everything still looks good, then I'll spin another filter on; and run the oil a little longer until the oil tests confirm that it's time for a change.

I'll test my oil (with TBN tests) every 4,000 miles for the first two or three changes. Once I know how fast my engine uses up the additive packs in the oil from an average of two or three changes; then I won't pay the additional $10 per test for the TBN testing, and I'll know how long I can go between oil changes. Every test after that will be without the TBN test, and I'll just be monitoring the levels of stuff present in the oil.

[This message has been edited by Deabionni (edited 12-18-2008).]

Interesting, but I don't see how this can be true:

"Draining the oil at lets say 3,000 miles simply means the additives have just become active at the point you are draining your oil! In other words you are increasing wear by about 500% doing 3,000 mile drain intervals!"

Unless the miles after 3000 are repairing wear damage. ?????

Also does oil sitting still after driven once follow the same rules as oil driven daily?

quote Originally posted by 2.5: Interesting, but I don't see how this can be true: "Draining the oil at lets say 3,000 miles simply means the additives have just become active at the point you are draining your oil! In other words you are increasing wear by about 500% doing 3,000 mile drain intervals!" Unless the miles after 3000 are repairing wear damage. ????? Also does oil sitting still after driven once follow the same rules as oil driven daily?

After 3000 miles, the oil additives aren't repairing any damage; but they're working to help prevent any further damage. Changing you oil just as your oil additive packs are starting to work means that the additive packs in your current oil didn't have time to work; and you're putting in new oil with new additive packs which aren't working yet, so you may be causing more damage to your engine by running new oil without the benefit of the help from the oil additive packs in the oil.

Your situation is unique in the fact that your oil may not be getting used up by the mileage, but may not be protecting like it should because it's sitting for so long. The only way to be sure, is to have it tested.

I'm in the same boat as you. I'm running German Castrol Syntec, which I know is good for 8000 miles; but I've only run about 1000 miles on my oil before I put my car up for the winter. After sitting for 4 months, I'm not sure what condition my oil will be in come this spring; so I don't know if I'll still have another 7000 left in it before it's time for my change. The oil I'll be sending in for testing come this spring will answer my question about that, though.

EDIT: Not to mention, when you drain a little oil to send in for testing you top off the oil with new oil; which helps to rejuvenate the oil additives, as your adding new additive packs with the new oil that you're topping off with.

[This message has been edited by Deabionni (edited 12-18-2008).]

to start with - synthetic doesnt make leaks.
it exposes existing leaks which are crudded over.

I switched my Ford Escort, with over 100k, over to synthetic. no leaks. yet.

I like synthetic for its cold flow & for its heat resistance. and, of course how clean my motor internals are. I change oil at 10k intervals on all my cars, and everytime, the drained oil feels nice.

quote Originally posted by Deabionni: I'm in the same boat as you. I'm running German Castrol Syntec, which I know is good for 8000 miles; but I've only run about 1000 miles on my oil before I put my car up for the winter. After sitting for 4 months, I'm not sure what condition my oil will be in come this spring; so I don't know if I'll still have another 7000 left in it before it's time for my change. The oil I'll be sending in for testing come this spring will answer my question about that, though. EDIT: Not to mention, when you drain a little oil to send in for testing you top off the oil with new oil; which helps to rejuvenate the oil additives, as your adding new additive packs with the new oil that you're topping off with.

Please post your findings. I suppose this stuff is different for each engine, but I am curious.

Also about topping off, based on the "packs" breaking in, wouldn't that be kind of like changing a little of it early? You didn't help, you hurt! Right?
So do the ones that work better if you wait 8k miles to change them say that on them? Are there any whose "packs" release right away?

quote Originally posted by 2.5: I thought about it, I figured this would be my test vehicle, since most of the syn manufacturers deny you will get leaks from switching. I was also wondering though if there was some oil system sealer of some sort that would help guard against that happening. NICE avatar Patrick!

Well now wouldn't that be nice (in my Dana Carry voice). You say your using it on a test vehicle so anything we tell you doesn't matter anyway. So here it is, No Synthetic oil will not harm your vehicle. Yes oil sealers are very good for your car that's why they cost so much, that way you buy more cans before you figure out the Shi! don't work. And their out there waiting for the next sucker.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: How many miles on it now? Which brand/weight did you use?

138k
the first change was to Castrol synth blend, for 5k, then I went to Valvoline full synth. I usually use Mobil 1, but thought I'd give the Valvoline a try.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: Please post your findings. I suppose this stuff is different for each engine, but I am curious. ?

If it'll help, I'd be more than happy to post the results of my oil analysis. By the way, this one isn't mine, but here's what a sample analysis sheet looks like when you get an analysis done from Blackstone.



You'll notice that there's a comment section on the analysis report, and from the oil that was sent in for that analysis; they suspect that his air filter is dirty and needs changed. If there's anything out of the ordinary for either the engine or oil, they will offer advise in the comment section. If everything looks good, then they'll tell you that as well.

By the way, I already know the values of the virgin oil analysis for the oil that I'm running; and it's virgin numbers look like this:

Iron..................3
Silicon...............4
Sodium............14
Potassium……....12
Moly................<5
Phosphorus…...903
Zinc.............1157
Calcium.........1941
Magnesium......770

When I test my oil, these are the numbers that I'm going to be comparing my analysis to.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: Also about topping off, based on the "packs" breaking in, wouldn't that be kind of like changing a little of it early? You didn't help, you hurt! Right? So do the ones that work better if you wait 8k miles to change them say that on them? Are there any whose "packs" release right away?

Topping it off after a filter change and some drainage for an analysis is no where near the same as a complete oil change. I'm losing about a quart of oil with a change of filter and draining some for the oil analysis. My engine requires about 6.5 quarts of oil per change with my turbo, oil cooler + related lines; so in the grand scheme of things, changing 1 quart of old for new doesn't do a whole lot to change my additive packs. Most of my original oil and working additive packs will still be in the engine, and the new quart with it's additive packs will mix in and work with time.

That said, my particular car is a turbo powered car that's run 8 to 9 months out of the year. Between Michigan's ever changing climate, and the stress on the oil added from the turbo; I need an oil that can keep up with the harsh conditions that I'm throwing at it, and the punishment that I put it through. I doubt the oil in your Ford truck sees the same punishment that my oil sees, so I'm obviously going a bit more extreme with my oil, analysis, and change intervals then you probably need to be. You need to run and do what you feel is best for your particular car and application. However, my original answer still stands. The only way you'll know for sure what condition your oil is truly in after letting your vehicle sit for long periods, is to have an oil analysis performed.

quote Originally posted by 4-mulaGT: Group 3 synthetics are crude oils that have been highly refined, they are not considered synthetics anywhere but the US.

This is not true. I don't have time to disprove other than to point you here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.c...mber=1236516&fpart=2

Group III synthetics may be considered synthetics worldwide, but that still doesn't change the fact that a Group III base stock is still refined dino oil. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking oils like Mobil 1 and others, as they are still very good oil; but what gets me is that they try to push their products off as a "true" synthetic, and charge synthetic prices for it.

I have very specific reasons for running the synthetic oil in my car that I run, and I'm not paying for or running a synthetic oil that's based from a Group III dino oil. I think it's wrong that companies are allowed to do that, and should be required to inform the public what the base stock is comprised of if they chose to do this. That's one of the reasons that I say that Penzoil Platinum is one of the better Group III base stock (not true) synthetics that you can get. First, they don't try to hide the fact that they're using a Group III base stock; and secondly, they refine the base stock better than the other companies do IMO.

The fact still remains that if you're looking for a TRUE synthetic oil to run in your vehicle, you MUST get an oil that's using a Group IV (PAO) or Group V (Ester) base stock.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: to start with - synthetic doesnt make leaks. it exposes existing leaks which are crudded over. I switched my Ford Escort, with over 100k, over to synthetic. no leaks. yet. I like synthetic for its cold flow & for its heat resistance. and, of course how clean my motor internals are. I change oil at 10k intervals on all my cars, and everytime, the drained oil feels nice.

Ill agree, NO synthetic MAKES leaks, it does just let worn seals do it....either way, it still makes for leaks you didnt have before.

I dont say ALL synthetics cause that either, Ive ONLY seen it happen with Mobile One brand. Im assuming it has more aggressive detergents in it than others.

ext time your under there changing the oil take some brakeparts cleaner and sprau the areas under there that might be leaking a little already and wipe them wioth a rag or witha soft bristled brush then a rag to get the area clean and oil free, for instance, the oil pan

then go over all the bolts and snug them up just a tad, to compensate for the old drying out gasket and you should be golden

my 89 lesabre had a few small leaks and i snugged up the bolts arround there and one year later it is still dry and clean under there

the car is original from 1989 and does not leak a drip or a seep of anything

My wifes car was using a bit of oil and we switched to synthetic. Uses less oil and no leaks for 2 years. It is 8 years old with 220,000kms on it.

high milage oil would probabley be the best way to go sythetic usualy leaks i ran it through my firebird once and had a very slow leak but that was the last time i used it

If one were to go synthetic, (not Mobil 1 since that appears to be the most complined about leaker) would using a higher weight help with leaks as well?

^^^ I wouldn't go with a higher weight oil to try to prevent leaks that you may not end up having. A higher weight oil will only flow LESS when it's cold, and take longer to start flowing throughout the engine after the initial start up. You'll do more damage to your engine, then good. With the cold that you can get in your area in the winter, plus the infrequent start ups it sounds like that Ford truck gets; I'd run an oil that will give you good flow for the cold start ups to help circulate the oil, then keep somewhat thicker after the engine is warm.

Example: I run German Castrol (European formula) 0W 30 in my Supra. Of course, because of it's 0 weight when cold, the oil flows extremely well even when it's well below freezing in our northern Michigan winters. (I've got a quart sitting in my garage, and you'd be surprised how well it will flow from the bottle even though it's below freezing here). Because it flows so well when cold, I know that the oil is flowing throughout my engine almost immediately upon start up.

On the other side of the spectrum, once warm, the German Castrol becomes a whole different animal. Most 0W 30 and 5W 30 oils tend to be on the thin side of a 30 weight once they're at operating temperature. That's not the case with the 0W 30 German Castrol. In tests, the centistokes or cST (the oil's vescosity or weight) for the German Castrol is measured to be 12.1 cST at 100 degrees C. Most 40 weight oils measure around 12.5 cST at the same 100 degrees C.

By running that oil, I'm getting the best of both worlds. I have an oil that flows very well when the engine needs it the most - during cold starts; and once the engine is up to operating temp, the oil doesn't break down as much as most 30 weight oils, and my oil flows close to the same as a 40 weight when warm.

Back to your Ford. I wouldn't run a heaver weight oil, as that will only impede the amount of flow when you need the protection the most - during cold starts. I realize that leaks are a concern, and if that's the case; you can always run an Ester based oil. One of the benefits of an Ester base stock oil, is that Ester is also a great seal conditioner, as it causes the seals to swell and will help prevent leaks. Unfortunatly, the only oil manufactuer that makes Group V (Ester base stock) synthetic oil for cars that I'm aware of, is Red Line. Their 5W 30 weight oil is comprised of 100% polyol ester base stock. The only problem with Red Line, is that it also costs around $10 per quart; which is most likely a HUGE overkill for a truck that's not driven that often.

Cliff notes: Forget about a thicker oil, as that will be counter productive. You may prevent leaks, but you'll also be increasing engine wear which is much worse. Try to find a GOOD oil which performs in the vescosity range that you NEED it to perform in, and worry about (and fix) any leaks that may show up. Depending on the miles on your engine, you may not find any leaks at all. If you do find leaks, then as mentioned earlier, they were already present and it was only the crud on the seals that were stopping them from leaking before.

quote Originally posted by Deabionni: I'd run an oil that will give you good flow for the cold start ups to help circulate the oil, then keep somewhat thicker after the engine is warm. Example: I run German Castrol (European formula) 0W 30 in my Supra. Of course, because of it's 0 weight when cold, the oil flows extremely well even when it's well below freezing in our northern Michigan winters. (I've got a quart sitting in my garage, and you'd be surprised how well it will flow from the bottle even though it's below freezing here). Because it flows so well when cold, I know that the oil is flowing throughout my engine almost immediately upon start up. On the other side of the spectrum, once warm, the German Castrol becomes a whole different animal. Most 0W 30 and 5W 30 oils tend to be on the thin side of a 30 weight once they're at operating temperature. That's not the case with the 0W 30 German Castrol. In tests, the centistokes or cST (the oil's vescosity or weight) for the German Castrol is measured to be 12.1 cST at 100 degrees C. Most 40 weight oils measure around 12.5 cST at the same 100 degrees C. By running that oil, I'm getting the best of both worlds. I have an oil that flows very well when the engine needs it the most - during cold starts; and once the engine is up to operating temp, the oil doesn't break down as much as most 30 weight oils, and my oil flows close to the same as a 40 weight when warm. .

THAT is awesome and is what I have been looking for for a long time, for a few cars of mine. I always thought it made more sense to have very thin oil at startup and the same if not thicker when warm, especially in cold winters. How do I get an oil like this? Only German Castrol is this way?
I always thought if there was a 0w40 or 5w50 or something it would suit well.

Thank you so much for all your information and answering my questions so well.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 12-19-2008).]

I always used Valvoline or Havoline oil before I got my AMG Mercedes. In conversations with them, they highly recommended only Castrol Synthetic in their cars. I tried it and my oil consumption went to 0 where it had always used a pint every 1000 miles or so. My oil pressure remained constant even when it was very hot. I guess Mobil One is recommended by Corvette, but its also installed in them new....not switched over after 20,000. Im betting Mobil One and GM had some kind of joint financial interest in that too.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: THAT is awesome and is what I have been looking for for a long time, for a few cars of mine. I always thought it made more sense to have very thin oil at startup and the same if not thicker when warm, especially in cold winters. How do I get an oil like this? Only German Castrol is this way? Thank you so much for all your information and answering my questions so well.

Don't mention it. It's no trouble at all.

In answer to your question, when I was comparing oils I was looking specifically for a Group IV or Group V synthetic oil to run in my engine. Specifically, the oils I was looking at were these:

Group IV: AMSOIL 5W 30, German Castrol 0W 30 (the only weight it comes in), and Royal Purple 5W 30. My thoughts were this:

I can't remember what the cST numbers for the Royal Purple and AMSOIL were, as it's been over a year since I compared the three; but I do remember that all three were very close on numbers when warm. German Castrol beat out the other two when cold (by only a small margin), but most likely due to the fact that it has a 0W when cold whereas the other two are a 5W when cold. The additive packs seemed to be about the same between the three, except for Royal Purple. The additives that Royal Purple uses are good, but they don't hold up well for extended oil drain intervals; which is one of the things I was looking for in my oil. Running Royal Purple, I'd only feel safe going between 5,000 to 8,000 miles without oil analysis to see if I could go further; whereas with German Castrol and AMSOIL, I'm confident that I could run a minimum of 8,000 miles between changes.

Group V: Red Line 5W30. My thoughts is this:

Once again, the cST numbers are very close to the other Group IV oils that I looked at. The real advantage here, though, is the Group V 100% Ester base stock that's used in Red Line. The Ester does lubricate better than the other oils, and also stands up better to heat and resists sheer much better than the Group IV (PAO) oils; which is one of the reasons that Ester is used as a base stock in jet engine oils. Also, as I stated earlier, the Ester also aids in swelling seals which helps reduce engine leaks. Now the additive packs used in Red Line is pretty stout and it also contains a good dose of soluble moly; which makes it a very good oil to use for extended oil changes. All in all, this is an excellent oil, with the only down side being it's high price. (Mostly because of the Ester used in the base stock). I'd feel very confident that this oil could run at least 8,000 miles between changes; and even more with analysis, as you'd know exactly when the additive packs are being used up.

My final thoughts:

When you're comparing AMSOIL, Royal Purple, German Castrol, and Red Line; you're getting to the point where you're effectively splitting hairs. All oils perform as you'd expect them to, and each one has their pluses and minuses. For me, Red Line was my first choice; but there's no place around here that sells Red Line. I'd either have to order it by mail, or have a company here special order the Red Line for me. Also, at a price of around $10 per quart; it's hard to justify the money spent per oil change, when the protection that it offers is only slightly better than the German Castrol that I'm running.

Why I chose German Castrol: Number 1 reason was for the cST numbers that the oil produces both cold and hot. It offers great protection when it's cold, and it's almost as thick as most 40 weights when it's hot. The second reason I chose to run German Castrol is it's price. The only place around here that carries it is Auto Zone, and they sell it around $6.80 per quart. With me buying 7 quarts per oil change (my car uses 6.5 quarts to fill), that's a difference of around $23 from Red Line to German Castrol. To be honest, I'm not sure if there's a $23 difference in added protection by running Red Line; especially when German Castrol flows how I need it to in northern Michigan, and protects the engine almost as good. (Remember, we're splitting hairs here).

Before choosing German Castrol, I spent a lot of time on forums talking with other people who are a lot more knowledgeable about oil then I am; and I did a lot of reading for myself. If you really want to know about oil, this would be a good place to start. If you end up wanting to try German Castrol, then Auto Zone is one of the few retailers that I know of that sells it here in the states.

The front of the German Castrol oil bottle has "European formula" on the front of the bottle, and is only sold in the 0W 30 weight.



The back of the bottle also had "Made in Germany" written somewhere on it, as seen to the left of the UPC symbol.



Happy reading, and run the oil that you think is best; and you think works best for your application. Just because I believe German Castrol works best for me, for the reasons I gave in my last few posts; doesn't necessarily mean that you feel it'll work best for you, or your application.

[This message has been edited by Deabionni (edited 12-20-2008).]

Great stuff.

As far as storage, this truck won't see 8k miles in 2 years, can keep the Euro Castrol 0w30 oil in it that long?

^^^ I really don't know. Let me ask some people who know more than I do, and I'll see if I can find out for you. Besides, it beats having you spend $33 on an oil analysis if someone else already knows the answer. (It'd also save me the same $33 to find out about my oil too).