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"Predatory animals are bad and should be allowed to go extinct" by IEatRice
Started on: 08-28-2009 02:48 PM
Replies: 12
Last post by: maryjane on 08-29-2009 10:40 PM
IEatRice
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Report this Post08-28-2009 02:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IEatRiceSend a Private Message to IEatRiceDirect Link to This Post
If you follow the comments here at Tet Zoo you'll already have seen the thread that's been developing on the 'Giant killers: macropredation in lions' article (originally posted back in February, and itself a re-post of a ver 1 article from November 2006). If you don't follow the comments, the following will be new to you. It seems that philosopher David Pearce is honestly proposing that we should feel ethically compelled to eradicate all suffering and cruelty from the natural world in order to create a sort of global vegan paradise where predators don't exist. Pearce terms this the Abolitionist Project (for more on Pearce and his ideas see this wikipedia article). His plans are, as discussed in depth on his website, theoretically plausible and involve such things as the use of brain implants, behaviour-modifying drugs, and genetic manipulation. Eventually, the lion will, literally, lie down with the lamb, hyaenas will not feel compelled to eat baby elephants alive, and - I presume - ladybirds will not eat aphids, and so on [adjacent image from Catztours].

I personally feel that the philosophy behind the proposal is completely wrong for many reasons. It imposes sentimental ideas and human moral judgment on other species; it (if carried through to eventuality) would mean an end to a great deal of natural selection; it is fundamentally contrary to the history of life and would result in the ultimate bastardisation of the natural world; and, perhaps most offensive of all, it PROMOTES the extinction and biological modification of thousands (or tens of thousands or more) of species. It would also result in the total collapse of the global ecosystem, but I think that's a minor detail. I cannot help but feel that these ideas are amoral and utterly, utterly wrong. I might not like the sight of slow, lingering death and of animals being eaten alive by others, but I celebrate such processes as part of the natural world, and as a vivid illustration of evolution and adaptation. Death is part of life; we are surrounded by it. If I were religious I would regard predation, death, brutal selection and so on as part of God's plan. On that note I initially assumed that Pearce was inspired by some kind of religious fundamentalism; so far as I can tell this is not at all the case - instead he represents a sort of 'extreme vegan' movement that he terms transhumanism.

While considering this issue, my assumption has been that so few people (especially those involved in conservation, wildlife management and field biology in general) will take it seriously that it will never go anywhere - even if it does become theoretically possible - and that those of us who find it ridiculous and/or offensive don't have to worry or even think about it. Furthermore, by the time we do have the ability to do the sorts of things proposed by the Abolisionist Project, I think we will most likely need our funding, resources and technology for other things. And, sorry for repeating myself, but modifying wild creatures to suit our ideals hardly sounds enlightened or ethical. It reminds me of efforts to expunge homosexuality by way of electric shock therapy, or of attempts to westernise aboriginal people by banning their customs, traditional dress and languages.

However, I'm interested to see how representative my views are, or are not. A few readers have already made comments, but now is the chance to voice your concerns. Sockpuppetry will not be tolerated - yes your behaviour has already been noticed.

http://scienceblogs.com/tet..._are_bad.php?utm_sou

I wonder what the guys plans are for the weather.
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TK
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Report this Post08-28-2009 02:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TKSend a Private Message to TKDirect Link to This Post
I think it's a bit too much hoopla over one person's comment in a thread. I am not sure why it escalated to this level (not you, the site).

Sounds like a slow day for them and they needed something.
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D B Cooper
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Report this Post08-28-2009 02:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for D B CooperSend a Private Message to D B CooperDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
His plans are, as discussed in depth on his website, theoretically plausible and involve such things as the use of brain implants, behaviour-modifying drugs, and genetic manipulation.


maybe they should try that brain implant experiment on moonbats first...
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pokeyfiero
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Report this Post08-28-2009 02:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pokeyfieroClick Here to visit pokeyfiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to pokeyfieroDirect Link to This Post
What do they plan on doing with people?
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Blacktree
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Report this Post08-28-2009 03:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageSend a Private Message to BlacktreeDirect Link to This Post
What about the animals who prey on plants? Do they get a free pass? (sarcasm)
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82-T/A [At Work]
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Report this Post08-28-2009 04:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Direct Link to This Post
I'm pretty environmentally concious. I really think it's our duty to protect the earth as much as possible so that our children will be able to experience wilderness and the environment exactly as we do. I'm in FULL support of protecting open land, protecting species and pretty much any other far fetched hippie / commie idea with respect to protecting the earth.

Of course, I'm still all for drilling in Alaska, and I love meat, all kinds... it's awesome.

The idea of killing animals because THEY kill things seems rather ridiculous. Animals are not like humans, they don't know any better.

The idea is so stupid on so many levels. Nature exists simply because there IS a food chain. If you kill off one animal, that will cause OTHER animals to grow like crazy, which in turn will cause them to over-eat vegitation that will in effect kill other animals that are herbivores.

The idea is so stupid... when one animal goes extinct, it upsets the food chain and causes a chain reaction, quite literally.

Functioning eco-systems need to be left alone...

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Todd,
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Marvin McInnis
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Report this Post08-29-2009 01:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Marvin McInnisClick Here to visit Marvin McInnis's HomePageSend a Private Message to Marvin McInnisDirect Link to This Post
My initial thought: The illogic aside, it's unintended consequences ... factorial! Where do we stop? Do we stop killing bacteria? (We must kill our own immune systems to do that.) Do we stop killing molds and yeasts? (No more beer, wine, or alcohol of any kind.)

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 08-29-2009).]

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InTheLead
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Report this Post08-29-2009 01:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for InTheLeadSend a Private Message to InTheLeadDirect Link to This Post
Just kill the recluse spiders, cobras, bushmasters, rattlesnakes, crocodiles and alligators. Then some sharks and a lot of mustang owners.
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Report this Post08-29-2009 01:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for User00013170Send a Private Message to User00013170Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pokeyfiero:

What do they plan on doing with people?


Its a secret, but the plan has already been released. ( H1N1 )
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FieroRumor
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Report this Post08-29-2009 01:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroRumorClick Here to visit FieroRumor's HomePageSend a Private Message to FieroRumorDirect Link to This Post
Remember who was the one that thought this up - a plilosopher. He probably ponders all sorts of silly things.
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Formula88
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Report this Post08-29-2009 02:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
The idea of killing animals because THEY kill things seems rather ridiculous. Animals are not like humans, they don't know any better.


That suggests that animals killing other animals is somehow wrong or evil. This is a misconception. It's part of the natural order of life. Screw that up and you screw up the entire eco-balance of the planet. We've already seen problems where a new predator is introduced to an area that isn't native, or a natural predator is removed from the area. The balance of species quickly gets out of control - extinction of some, massive overpopulation of others.

Destruction is not necessarily evil.
You destroy plants to eat vegetables.
You kill other animals to eat meat.
Even a blank piece of paper is destroyed to write an award winning novel or sonnet.

Nature is apart from good and evil. Good and evil are purely manmade concepts.
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Report this Post08-29-2009 02:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonDirect Link to This Post
I'm one good meal away from going Predator and cooking you all. Remember that should the government fall and I need a snack.

[This message has been edited by Jake_Dragon (edited 08-29-2009).]

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maryjane
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Report this Post08-29-2009 10:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneDirect Link to This Post
I won't even bother with the cooking.
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