WASHINGTON – Democratic senators pressed ahead Saturday toward a crucial first vote on President Barack Obama's health care overhaul, a test of party unity in the face of solid Republican opposition.
"There's much we need to do to make sure we have a health care system that works for all people, not just a few," said Sen. Michael Bennet, D-Colo., during debate in a rare weekend session.
Democratic leaders are optimistic of success, but they need every Democrat and both independents to vote "yes," and two moderates remained uncommitted ahead of the roll call, which is expected around 8 p.m. EST. The vote will determine whether debate can go forward on Majority Leader Harry Reid's 2,074-page bill to dramatically remake the U.S. health care system over the next decade.
Most everyone would be required to purchase insurance under Reid's legislation, and billions in new taxes would be levied on insurers and high-income Americans to help extend coverage to 30 million uninsured. Insurance companies would no longer be allowed to deny coverage to people with medical conditions or drop coverage when someone gets sick.
Sen. Judd Gregg, R-N.H., accused Democrats of playing the "ultimate shell game" with the cost of the bill, put at $848 billion over 10 years for coverage only by the Congressional Budget Office. Gregg said Democrats delayed most of the spending in the bill by four or five years.
"The number is so dishonestly arrived at," he said.
The two Democratic holdouts are Sens. Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas and Mary Landrieu of Louisiana. A third centrist, Ben Nelson of Nebraska, announced Friday that he'd be supporting his party on the test vote, while cautioning that it didn't mean he'd be with them on the final vote.
"It is not for or against the new Senate health care bill," Nelson said. "It is only to begin debate and an opportunity to make improvements. If you don't like a bill, why block your own opportunity to amend it?"
The article I liked goes into more detail. Yes, it's only a vote to begin debate - a test vote - but if it can be stopped here, so much the better. If the bill is such a great idea and the Obamanation and his Congress are so transparent, why have the vote on a Saturday night just before the holiday? The House had to do the same thing with a Saturday night vote to barely get their bill passed.
For all you people who want someone else to pay for your health insurance, news flash - your taxes will go up, too. If you're not currently buying insurance, you will be required to do so, and you will have a higher tax burden at the same time.
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11:49 AM
PFF
System Bot
htexans1 Member
Posts: 9114 From: Clear Lake City/Houston TX Registered: Sep 2001
Most everyone would be required to purchase insurance under Reid's legislation
Haven't they been telling everybody that this is about FREE health care? That is what they have led people to believe to get this far. Of course, making everyone think everyone was going to get free handouts is what got us saddled with the administration anyway.
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12:14 PM
AntiKev Member
Posts: 2333 From: Windsor, Ontario, Canada Registered: May 2004
Doubt it...they have the 60 for cloture or the motion wouldn't hit the floor. You guys are going to get this pill rammed down your throats whether you want it or not.
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12:15 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Most everyone would be required to purchase insurance under Reid's legislation
Haven't they been telling everybody that this is about FREE health care? That is what they have led people to believe to get this far. Of course, making everyone think everyone was going to get free handouts is what got us saddled with the administration anyway.
Oh, and don't forget...all the TAXES that come along with this bill start NOW. The healthcare doesn't start until 2014.
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12:18 PM
Old Lar Member
Posts: 13797 From: Palm Bay, Florida Registered: Nov 1999
Today's vote is to bring the proposal to the floor for discussion. Mary Landru sold her vote for $100 million for Louisana's bailout. So much BS in the senate.
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12:36 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35467 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
I just hope it can be stopped tonight. Many people would sleep a lot better if it fails.
If healthcare passes, it might be the final nail in the coffin that brings down this country, financially. Add Cap and Tax, and it's over. I've seen the projected national debt numbers out to 2020, and we're talking $20 TRILLION dollars. It's unsustainable. If they try to monetize that debt, you're looking at a SERIOUS devaluation of the dollar, which would result in hyperinflation - that's higher prices for everything, while your paycheck (if you still have a job) remains the same.
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01:38 PM
NEPTUNE Member
Posts: 10199 From: Ticlaw FL, and some other places. Registered: Aug 2001
It looks like the mean party will come out on the short end of the stick, this time.
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By DAVID ESPO, AP Special Correspondent David Espo, Ap Special Correspondent – 2 hrs 1 min ago WASHINGTON – In a show of unity, Senate Democrats sealed a 60-vote majority needed to advance health care legislation Saturday ahead of an evening showdown with Republicans eager to doom the bill and inflict a punishing defeat on President Barack Obama.
Two final holdouts, Sens. Mary Landrieu of Louisiana and Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas, announced in speeches a few hours apart on the Senate floor they would vote to clear the way for what is expected to be a bruising, full-scale health care debate after Thanksgiving.
At a 10-year cost approaching $1 trillion, the measure is designed to extend coverage to roughly 31 million who lack it, crack down on insurance company practices that deny benefits, and curtail the growth of spending on medical care nationally.
"It is clear to me that doing nothing is not an option," said Landrieu, who noted the legislation includes $100 million to help her state pay the costs of health care for the poor. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_overhaul
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05:37 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
At a 10-year cost approaching $1 trillion, the measure is designed to extend coverage to roughly 31 million who lack it, crack down on insurance company practices that deny benefits, and curtail the growth of spending on medical care nationally.
"It is clear to me that doing nothing is not an option," said Landrieu, who noted the legislation includes $100 million to help her state pay the costs of health care for the poor.
No comment on the cost? No comment on the national debt projected to reach $20 trillion by the end of the next decade, which does *not* include the cost of heathcare? No comment on the $100 million dollar pork-barrel purchase of Landrieu's vote?
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05:47 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
No comment on the cost? No comment on the national debt projected to reach $20 trillion by the end of the next decade, which does *not* include the cost of heathcare? No comment on the $100 million dollar pork-barrel purchase of Landrieu's vote?
Trollboy couldn't care less about what the bill will actually do. If a Republican is against it, he's all for it.
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06:10 PM
NEPTUNE Member
Posts: 10199 From: Ticlaw FL, and some other places. Registered: Aug 2001
[quote] Trollboy couldn't care less about what the bill will actually do. If a Republican is against it, he's all for it. [------------------ [
Thanks for the friendly compliment, bro. Now this has been explained to you many, many times before. . But, well, you know.....
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From the Wall Street Journal:
Even as Barack Obama proposes fiscally responsible tax reform to strengthen our economy and restore the balance that has been lost in recent years, we hear the familiar protests and distortions from the guardians of the broken status quo.
Many of these very same critics made many of these same overheated predictions in previous elections....
He can SAY all he wants. Fact is, everything he and his cronies are trying to put into place will have just the opposite effect. And that is the status quo since he too over.
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07:13 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
He can SAY all he wants. Fact is, everything he and his cronies are trying to put into place will have just the opposite effect. And that is the status quo since he too over.
Well, you understand the difference between rhetoric and reality. Unfortunately, the Democrats do not.
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07:15 PM
texasfiero Member
Posts: 4674 From: Houston, TX USA Registered: Jun 2003
Look out, this is how they'll pay for all of this.....
Remember those Bush tax cuts, passed in 2001 and 2003 that reduced personal income taxes, capital gains taxes, as well as eliminated the estate tax that are to expire in 2011? Early in the year, Pelosi said she wanted Congress to repeal Bush's tax cuts well before their scheduled expiration date. Peloski was on TV just weeks ago saying the the "repeal" wasn't considered a tax increase because the tax was already in place. Double speak if you ask me. Whole lot of money they'll capture especially if they make it retroactive like president Clinton did years ago.
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10:34 PM
Rallaster Member
Posts: 9105 From: Indy southside, IN Registered: Jul 2009
Look out, this is how they'll pay for all of this.....
Remember those Bush tax cuts, passed in 2001 and 2003 that reduced personal income taxes, capital gains taxes, as well as eliminated the estate tax that are to expire in 2011? Early in the year, Pelosi said she wanted Congress to repeal Bush's tax cuts well before their scheduled expiration date. Peloski was on TV just weeks ago saying the the "repeal" wasn't considered a tax increase because the tax was already in place. Double speak if you ask me. Whole lot of money they'll capture especially if they make it retroactive like president Clinton did years ago.
That would almost bankrupt 90% of the country... 6 and 8 years worth of back taxes, that's asinine, although I can see them doing that...
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10:59 PM
Rallaster Member
Posts: 9105 From: Indy southside, IN Registered: Jul 2009
WASHINGTON — The Senate voted on Saturday to begin full debate on major health care legislation, propelling President Obama’s top domestic initiative over a crucial, preliminary hurdle in a formidable display of muscle-flexing by the Democratic majority.
“Tonight we have the opportunity, the historic opportunity to reform health care once and for all,” said Senator Max Baucus, Democrat of Montana, and a chief architect of the legislation. “History is knocking on the door. Let’s open it. Let’s begin the debate.”
The 60-to-39 vote, along party lines, clears the way for weeks of rowdy floor proceedings that will begin after Thanksgiving and last through much of December. But even as the Democrats succeeded in uniting their caucus by winning over the last two holdouts, big disagreements remained, making final approval of the bill far from certain.
Just as I opened this thread to read it, my wife says "it said they passed the health care vote tonight". I got a sinking feeling in my stomach. Then as I read the post above me she starts saying "was it just a vote to open it for discussion?". /whew, hopefully it doesn't go any farther.
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11:34 PM
Nov 22nd, 2009
jetman Member
Posts: 7789 From: Sterling Heights Mich Registered: Dec 2002
Originally posted by Rallaster: That would almost bankrupt 90% of the country... 6 and 8 years worth of back taxes, that's asinine, although I can see them doing that...
Please forgive me, I should have mentioned that Clinton made his increases retroactive to the beginning of that year. It was challanged but the courts upheld it.
Our elected officials didn't listen to anything we were screaming at them in the town meetings, they're going to ram this down out throats. Democratic majority is hell bent on this bill, abusing the power entrusted in them by the voting public.
It looks like the mean party will come out on the short end of the stick, this time.
You and those who want it can always volunteer to contribute a bit more and pay for the whole thing yourselves ya know. But--you won't. If it's not OPM, you guys aren't interested.
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02:22 AM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
You and those who want it can always volunteer to contribute a bit more and pay for the whole thing yourselves ya know. But--you won't. If it's not OPM, you guys aren't interested.
I just wish I could be there, to see the look on his face and hear the anger, when he finds out that he too will be taxed and screwed by this legislation. Gee, with all the extra taxes and requirements that you must buy insurance, I wonder if he'll still be able to live on that "few hundred dollars" that he claims he can live on?
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03:48 AM
cliffw Member
Posts: 36030 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by Formula88: Yes, Saturday night before a holiday week. If the bill is such a great idea and the Obamanation and his Congress are so transparent, why have the vote on a Saturday night just before the holiday? The House had to do the same thing with a Saturday night vote to barely get their bill passed.
To keep the Dumb reps from facing voters at Town Hall meetings. Saturday night votes, ? Pelosi promised to make representatives work more yet they still are only putting in a three and a half day week in the Capitol.
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Originally posted by Formula88: How's that transparency working for you?
The dumb sheeples that are for this believe in utopia. They care not that promises made to them have been broken. This was to be debated on CSPAN. The reason it is not being done so is not because of Repubs. It is because too many dumbs were wising up.
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Originally posted by Songman: Most everyone would be required to purchase insurance under Reid's legislation Haven't they been telling everybody that this is about FREE health care? That is what they have led people to believe to get this far. Of course, making everyone think everyone was going to get free handouts is what got us saddled with the administration anyway.
The devil is in the details. Caveat emptor. Of course, to those that believe that there is a free lunch, details don't matter.
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Originally posted by fierobear: Oh, and don't forget...all the TAXES that come along with this bill start NOW. The healthcare doesn't start until 2014.
What taxes ? The people who want this do not pay taxes. Almost 50% of America. Again, what taxes ? The FREE LUNCH believers don't realize the trickle down taxes, .
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Originally posted by Old Lar: Today's vote is to bring the proposal to the floor for discussion. Mary Landru sold her vote for $100 million for Louisana's bailout. So much BS in the senate.
You are too kind. I will expose her for the whore that she is. The legislation which made this possible specified emergency money for states which had Presidential declarations of catastrophes. How did only Louisiana qualify for the whole $100 million ?
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Originally posted by fierobear: If healthcare passes, it might be the final nail in the coffin that brings down this country, financially. Add Cap and Tax, and it's over. I've seen the projected national debt numbers out to 2020, and we're talking $20 TRILLION dollars. It's unsustainable. If they try to monetize that debt, you're looking at a SERIOUS devaluation of the dollar, which would result in hyperinflation - that's higher prices for everything, while your paycheck (if you still have a job) remains the same.
Quit sugar coating it, . This country is already down. Because of our debt that we have right now. Why else would Obama be going around bowing. Courting the world. Neither a borrower nor a lender be. One becomes slave to whom they owe. We can not affect world policy if we have our hat in our hands. Look at the costs of all the promises our local, state, and national governments have promised. They do not meet income yet they still promise. A sucker is born every minute but they do not have to remain a sucker. Every rose garden has thorns.
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Originally posted by MDFierolvr: Any idea how hard it is to find an aviation job right now? Oh and Health insurance has everything to do with it because I can't afford a reasonable health insurance policy because I don't have a job that actually provides it. And getting it individually is just ridiculous. I can actually start giving you quotes of what it would cost me, or I could provide stories of people like me who actually pay for the insurance and can't afford the co-pays. Please continue to tell me about how you are actually saving me money or saving me from reduced healthcare.
Puleese, , no one can tell you anything. You got it all figured out. Even though the CBO states that health insurance is gonna be more expensive under these planned bills, for everyone, employers included, you think your life is gonna be so much better. Oh yeah, , more aviation jobs will be available if this crap passes. What is your problem ? I mean your self perceived problems. How come I have none ? Hehehe, can't find an aviation job, . Why not ? Could it be your attitude that people should do for you ? You hire on to do for them. Now you support a measure which will increase the costs to hire someone and also increase the costs for you to provide your own health insurance. Not to mention the increase in costs it will cost us to mommy you, . Oh wait. Wait for the funny part. You are gonna reap what you sow, if you ever do get a job. . Then I have seen you try to guilt us into supporting this socialism. By saying that only if we paid a little more in taxes we can save the masses. It ain't about the money for me. I am poor enough that it may only affect me minimally money wise. To me, it is about theft from those that do for themselves for those that will not. To me, it is about government control. To me, it is also about government ineptitude. Many other measures can be taken to reduce health care costs and there is a reason why they are not being done. NO GOVERNMENT CONTROL. Instead of looking for reasons to justify your selfish desires, you should look for reasons why government health care is not a good idea. There are many you can find if you look. I challenge you to a debate. By the way Mr Benevolent, how many other charities do you support ? Why not world wide health care ? For the record, I saw your post about the possibility of your red bar growing because of your position on this issue. I checked and had you as a +, no reason given. I see no need to change it. I see you as a decent guy.
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04:49 AM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35467 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
I don't see the vote on the senate's website. I'm really curious to see how my senators voted on it, as I'm sure both of the held the party line (both are D's)
edit: found it, conveniently hidden. http://www.senate.gov/legis...session=1&vote=00353 If you go under the bill itself, it mentions that 3590 is expected to be the "vehicle" for the health reform bill. Time to give my senators an email.
[This message has been edited by hklvette (edited 11-22-2009).]
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10:44 AM
partfiero Member
Posts: 6923 From: Tucson, Arizona Registered: Jan 2002
Most everyone would be required to purchase insurance under Reid's legislation
Haven't they been telling everybody that this is about FREE health care? That is what they have led people to believe to get this far. Of course, making everyone think everyone was going to get free handouts is what got us saddled with the administration anyway.
Its only free if you never pay taxes. ( well, you still 'pay' but the costs are hidden )
? Pelosi promised to make representatives work more yet they still are only putting in a three and a half day week in the Capitol.
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. This country is already down. Because of our debt that we have right now. Why else would Obama be going around bowing. Courting the world. Neither a borrower nor a lender be. One becomes slave to whom they owe. We can not affect world policy if we have our hat in our hands.
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