After 5 am yesterday, I was a little out of touch with the world (up for almost 2 days straight at work), so I didn't see much in the way of news on Dec 7th.
How much news did anyone see about Pearl Harbor? Locally, nationally? I didn't see diddly squat on the internet (msn and yahoo) before 5 am.
On a positive note, my son (7th grade) had a teacher that made a special point of discussing it with the class. Totally not in their current study area, either. I thought that was pretty darned good of the teacher to do so.
Although I have no issues with the Japan (and its people) of today, we must never forget what happened then.
Its not forgotten but ever since 9/11 that has been the devistation of most of out generations. there is probabley a good deal of us that wernt around during pearl harbor or a handfull of us that were way to young to remember it.
I did hear it on one of or local news channels but tey just made a point of it and did not go into any detail.
[This message has been edited by pontiackid86 (edited 12-09-2009).]
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01:30 AM
Cheever3000 Member
Posts: 12400 From: The Man from Tallahassee Registered: Aug 2001
I saw a bunch of stuff on Pearl Harbor. Many survivours have retired to Florida. Pearl Harbor ~2000, mostly military died...9/11 ~3000, mostly civilians died. Pearl Harbor = WWII, ...9/11 a quick sand military action that has lasted 2X longer than WWII.
Its not forgotten but ever since 9/11 that has been the devistation of most of out generations. there is probabley a good deal of us that wernt around during pearl harbor or a handfull of us that were way to young to remember it.
I did hear it on one of or local news channels but tey just made a point of it and did not go into any detail.
You'd have to be over 70 yrs old to 'remember' it, but one would think that the single most devastating event in US history--an event that reshaped the global map, and cost over 100 million lives would be worth keeping in mind--a little more important to most folks than things like a halloween party. The fact that people 'forgot' and became complacent instead of diligent is the reason 9/11 happened. What do they teach you guys in school nowdays?
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 12-09-2009).]
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07:45 AM
cliffw Member
Posts: 36382 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by pontiackid86: Its not forgotten but ever since 9/11 that has been the devistation of most of out generations. there is probabley a good deal of us that wernt around during pearl harbor or a handfull of us that were way to young to remember it.
I agree with maryjane. You need not be around when history happens to benefit from it. EDIT The lame stream media I saw also did not pay the attack on Pearl Harbor it's dues. My local news did give it more coverage but Admiral Nimitz was born in Fredericksburg (very close to me). It's Admital Nimitz museum pays homage to WW II year round.
[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 12-09-2009).]
Im not saying I dont agree with both of you guys. I did learn a lot about pearl harbor in school and it was 1, a big turning point for the US the war. 2,taught the US that were not invincable to that kind of attack 3, It was a very devestating blow to us here at home.
[This message has been edited by pontiackid86 (edited 12-09-2009).]
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11:52 AM
cliffw Member
Posts: 36382 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
We were not in the war before Pearl Harbor. It was not a turning point in WW II. As 9/11 was not. I have to wonder what you, and anybody, did with what they learned about Pearl Harbor. Back then, the people who lived it, won. I can go back a few more years. The American Revolution. 9/11 has nothing on that cause. Pearl Harbor has nothing on 9/11. 9/11 has nothing on Pearl Harbor. I am just rambling in thought because, anyone of the three leads to a common thought. "Freedom isn't free".
[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 12-09-2009).]
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12:11 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Im not saying I dont agree with both of you guys. I did learn a lot about pearl harbor in school and it was 1, a big turning point for the US the war. 2,taught the US that were not invincable to that kind of attack 3, It was a very devestating blow to us here at home.
Failed American History, did you?
Pearl Harbor is why we entered World War II in the first place. The U.S. was maintaining an isoltionist policy until we were attacked. Japan declared war on the U.S. and attacked Pearl Harbor. The U.S. declared war on Japan. Germany then declared war on the U.S. in support of Japan. The U.S. then declared war on Germany.
A few excerpts.... 05/09/1939 The United States declares its neutrality in this war. 11/05/1940 President Roosevelt expresses his dismay to King Leopold of Belgium about the German invasion. 10/06/1940 President Roosevelt announces a shift from neutrality to "non-belligerency," while condemning Germany and Italy and promising material aid to both Britain and France. 20/07/1940 President Roosevelt signs the 'Two Ocean Navy Expansion Act'. This was the first step in preparing America for war against either Germany or Japan, or both. 29/01/1941 In Washington, the US and British military leaders begin secret staff talks regarding co-ordination of a common war policy against Germany. 28/05/1941 Roosevelt says Neutrality Act to be repealed. 04/07/1941 In and Independence Day broadcast, Roosevelt warns the American public that the USA 'will never survive as a happy and prosperous oasis in the middle of a desert of dictatorship'. 01/08/1941 Roosevelt stops US oil supplies to the ‘aggressors’. (that was back when the U.S. was an oil exporting nation - go figure)
15/11/1941 A Japanese special negotiator arrives in Washington. 26/11/1941 U.S. secretary of state puts his final proposal to the Japanese.
01/12/1941 US-Japanese talks continue, Roosevelt curtails holiday. 04/12/1941 The Japanese Embassy in Washington begins to leave, destroying code books and personal files in the process. 06/12/1941 President Roosevelt sends a last minute plea to the Japanese Emperor for peace. 07/12/1941 The US begins mobilisation. 08/12/1941 President Roosevelt addresses the U.S. Congress, saying that December 7 is "a date that will live in infamy." After a vote of 82-0 in the U.S. Senate, and 388-1 in the House, in favor of declaring war on Japan, Roosevelt signs the declaration of war. 11/12/1941 In response to Germany and Italy's declaration of war, the US reciprocates and declares war on both Germany and Italy. Costa Rica, Cuba, the Dominican Republic and Nicaragua also declare war on Germany and Italy. 12/12/1941 US declares war on Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria after receiving those country's declarations of war against the US. 15/12/1941 US Secretary of the Navy tells Congress that 2,729 were killed during the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour.
The turning point in WWII for the US was The Battle of Midway
Historians argue about Pearl Harbor as to whether or not we knew the Japanese forces were coming. We had radar, we also had other reports about the japanese forces... yet they did nothing... historians seem to think we were looking for a "tripwire" or an excuse to enter the war. It is interesting to see the different viewpoints about Pearl Harbor.
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03:58 PM
CoryFiero Member
Posts: 4341 From: Charleston, SC Registered: Oct 2001
Originally posted by htexans1: It is interesting to see the different (READ: uneducated) viewpoints about Pearl Harbor.
Why does my generation seem to know about 9/11, but not Pearl Harbor, the USS Cole but not the USS Maine, and remember Columbine but not Kent State?
It's sad, I feel like this is when Jay Leno walks around asking young people questions they should know, but don't. I learned about all of these in school, and I remember them. They were important.
[This message has been edited by CoryFiero (edited 12-09-2009).]
The turning point in WWII for the US was The Battle of Midway
Historians argue about Pearl Harbor as to whether or not we knew the Japanese forces were coming. We had radar, we also had other reports about the japanese forces... yet they did nothing... historians seem to think we were looking for a "tripwire" or an excuse to enter the war. It is interesting to see the different viewpoints about Pearl Harbor.
Oh, I believe they saw them coming--I just think they mis diagnosed who/what it was they saw.
we Knew they might come,, when you deal with blood thirsty baby bayonetters you never know..
9/!! is now ancient history to most Americans nothing to worry about..I feel safe,, no one will hurt me !! THINK AGAIN SQUEEKS,, when ready,, the slant eyed murdering monsters will roll up Canada like an old rug .. We are falling from within right now..Today,, OH !!!! don,t beleave it ,,better look around you,,get informed .. how many of you know what is going on in Detroit city,, and accross the Canadian border with our loving Moslem brothers ..You need extra ammo if you live in this area ,,and a full tank of gas to make a fast exit 5 american moslems terrs were just picked up in Pakistan where it is punishable by death to covert to christianity..More Americans that do not like America !!!
MERRY HOLIDAY?? MY WRINKLED FLATULENT BUNGHOLE,,its christmas Merry Christmas Prepare for the worst,,expect the optimistic best ..
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08:41 PM
Rallaster Member
Posts: 9105 From: Indy southside, IN Registered: Jul 2009
we Knew they might come,, when you deal with blood thirsty baby bayonetters you never know..
9/!! is now ancient history to most Americans nothing to worry about..I feel safe,, no one will hurt me !! THINK AGAIN SQUEEKS,, when ready,, the slant eyed murdering monsters will roll up Canada like an old rug .. We are falling from within right now..Today,, OH !!!! don,t beleave it ,,better look around you,,get informed .. how many of you know what is going on in Detroit city,, and accross the Canadian border with our loving Moslem brothers ..You need extra ammo if you live in this area ,,and a full tank of gas to make a fast exit 5 american moslems terrs were just picked up in Pakistan where it is punishable by death to covert to christianity..More Americans that do not like America !!!
MERRY HOLIDAY?? MY WRINKLED FLATULENT BUNGHOLE,,its christmas Merry Christmas Prepare for the worst,,expect the optimistic best ..
I could assume by your tone that you consider ANYONE who is not CHRISTIAN to be a terrorist. If that is so, I am personally offended by that, I realise you may not care, but I do. I am NOT a Christian, and I am NOT a terrorist. I don't say Merry Christmas, but I'm not offended by those that do, I'm offended by those that think you HAVE to say Merry Christmas. I say Merry Yule because that is what I believe. I am severely offended by those that are of the mindset that says if you don't believe this or that then you are automatically labelled a terrorist and anti-American. There are people in ANY religion that are terrorists, it's not just Muslim or Islam.
That said, racial/ethnic profiling is still a useful tool. Something people may want to deny, but there are "certain groups" with higher numbers of terrorists in them.
Speaking of being out of touch with the world, when I did my army basic training, god I hated not reading the newspaper daily, watching the news, it was so weird. I felt quite uninformed and dumb...
[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 12-09-2009).]
The turning point in WWII for the US was The Battle of Midway
Historians argue about Pearl Harbor as to whether or not we knew the Japanese forces were coming. We had radar, we also had other reports about the japanese forces... yet they did nothing... historians seem to think we were looking for a "tripwire" or an excuse to enter the war. It is interesting to see the different viewpoints about Pearl Harbor.
Ive heard that theory. I never agreed with it. If that were the case they would not have gone to the trouble of grouping the planes on the ground together to protect against saboteurs. Also, They could have left minimal ships in harbor for such a "trip wire". No competent military or nation for that matter would knowingly allow a third of their navy be destroyed or damaged in a massive attack. This attack set the U.S. back for 6-9 months. We were taking heavy losses in the pacific as a result. It wasn't until we began to catch up in hardware that things began to look up for us. This idea that we would allow such a thing to take place in my opinion is a joke. You could of easily had exercises going on with the other carriers that were out to sea at the time, leaving a VERY small group of older ships waiting to be hit. The fact those carriers were not in harbor at least gave us something to fight back with, not much. That would have been disastrous.
Just doesn't add up. About as likely to me as saying 9/11 was an "inside job".
[This message has been edited by NickD3.4 (edited 12-09-2009).]
I could assume by your tone that you consider ANYONE who is not CHRISTIAN to be a terrorist. If that is so, I am personally offended by that, I realise you may not care, but I do. I am NOT a Christian, and I am NOT a terrorist. I don't say Merry Christmas, but I'm not offended by those that do, I'm offended by those that think you HAVE to say Merry Christmas. I say Merry Yule because that is what I believe. I am severely offended by those that are of the mindset that says if you don't believe this or that then you are automatically labelled a terrorist and anti-American. There are people in ANY religion that are terrorists, it's not just Muslim or Islam.
I am severely offended that everyone has become a bunch of politically correct feel good pussies that easily get offended. Do I agree with what he said? not completely, some points are true, but seriously ....... Grow a pair.
[This message has been edited by NickD3.4 (edited 12-09-2009).]
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09:53 PM
Rallaster Member
Posts: 9105 From: Indy southside, IN Registered: Jul 2009
I am severely offended that everyone has become a bunch of politically correct feel good pussies that easily get offended. Do I agree with what he said? not completely, some points are true, but seriously ....... Grow a pair.
I am far from politically correct, and I don't get offended easily. In fact, what offended me is about the only thing that offends me, actually, TBH, I don't think it's really offence, it's more annoyance than anything. I meet people everyday that are of the notion that you're "either a Christian, or you're a terrorist", and they say that bluntly, and some people I deliver to ask what I believe. I tell them that I am Pagan, I had one guy throw the pizza at me and was screaming at the top of his lungs for me to leave. He called my district manager and filed a formal complaint against me because "he is a devil worshipper and a terrorist".
I am tired of it. I realise that the US Constitution has some influences from the bible and Christianity, but to say that anyone not Christian is waaaay over the top and just not right.
I am far from politically correct, and I don't get offended easily. In fact, what offended me is about the only thing that offends me, actually, TBH, I don't think it's really offence, it's more annoyance than anything. I meet people everyday that are of the notion that you're "either a Christian, or you're a terrorist", and they say that bluntly, and some people I deliver to ask what I believe. I tell them that I am Pagan, I had one guy throw the pizza at me and was screaming at the top of his lungs for me to leave. He called my district manager and filed a formal complaint against me because "he is a devil worshipper and a terrorist".
I am tired of it. I realise that the US Constitution has some influences from the bible and Christianity, but to say that anyone not Christian is waaaay over the top and just not right.
Mainly, I was just razzing you . I agree. I am of christian faith, but I could care less what others believe. To say "non-Christians" are terrorists is obviously asinine and absurd. I get annoyed with the atheist movement b/c they feel its somehow their calling to nab anything relating to God, i.e. road side crosses for the dead or Nativity scenes. Seriously? by them go out of their way THEY are forcing their beliefs on people, not the other way around. displaying a scene is no forced religion. If you dont like it, dont look. Forcing people to remove traditional items because it supposedly "offends" you that someone believes in God is forcing your views.
I'm not talking about you by the way, I'm speaking in general. I was just having some fun with ya. I agree with your position. I can tell by your avatar you not politically correct.
[This message has been edited by NickD3.4 (edited 12-10-2009).]
The haters are always slaming christianity,,ITS MERRY CHRISTMAS,,soon enough men who are not politically correct will come and take this country,, the Atheistcreeps,, and other godless will cringe in fear untill they join the enemy cause ..Atheism is a religion another porta potty dunking bunch.. Most of the left wing on this forum brand me as Racist,it is thier style,,screw them!! My gripe with the slant japs is baby bayonetting,,mass burial of people still alive,,baby head bashing ,,burning people alive ..bayonette practice with live humans,,mass machine gunning of captives.. mass decapitations,cutting peoples tonques out,,ramming bayonettes up Phillipino soldiers anal trac.they use to torture And skin alive prisoners while our troops listen to the screams.the list is to long to continue,, Most of this has been scrubbed ,,a lot thanks to General Mc athur .. Pagans are morons generally..attention getting stuff and surprised when it goes wrong..beleave me ,,the rag heads or slant eyed yellow monsters take over !! you will never mention it again.. ha ha..The satanist seem to have it together better ,seriously open perverts I was surprised 2 years ago when PBS had a war special and told about the hospital on Okinawa,, the Japs over ran,, and cut off the different organs off ALL the patients and laughed while they bled to death,, The Marines in a fit of anger over ran these japs and killed them to the last man.in a very difficult fight. I served with men who fought the Pacific Island campaigns They hated the japs,, and wished more A bombs had been available I carry this with me to the grave.. WAKE UP !! so it is all History ??
[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 12-10-2009).]
. I agree. I am of christian faith, but I could care less what others believe. To say "non-Christians" are terrorists is obviously asinine and absurd. I get annoyed with the atheist movement b/c they feel its somehow their calling to nab anything relating to God, i.e. road side crosses for the dead or Nativity scenes. Seriously? by them go out of their way THEY are forcing their beliefs on people, not the other way around. displaying a scene is no forced religion. If you dont like it, dont look. Forcing people to remove traditional items because it supposedly "offends" you that someone believes in God is forcing your views. 
