I had to write a paper about the war on drugs. As a cop, I can honestly say, in my experience, Marijuana has not played a major role in crime or violence, except for the i-product of it being illegal. The fact its illegal, causes these things to happen.

After doing much thought, and relying on my experiences on the street. I finally came to this conclusion. What do you think?

: prohibition of marijuana has been a long- time debate. While there are valid arguments to both sides, this issue should be addressed. In 1934 Marijuana became taboo and illegal in the U.S. It would be wise to go back and figure out just why this substance has continued to be illegal. In 1934 virtually no- known facts had been made on Marijuana use. There was, however, plenty of outlandish claims that we know today are not true, i.e. people going insane and on violent rampages. Marijuana provides criminal syndicates with massive capital, and continues to fund their violent campaigns against the governments. Marijuana is the most used street drug and yet it is more mild then the effects of alcohol. Alcohol causes sclerosis of the liver, promotes violent behavior such as rape or fighting, promotes drunkenness, numbs the mind, is the number one major contributing factor to Domestic Violence, and kills an estimated 40,000 per year (Alcohol Alert, 2010). The same cannot be said about Marijuana. Marijuana calms people, does not promote aggression, and has less destructive effects on the body and society then that of alcohol. The fact one substance is viewed acceptable while the other is not should be greatly scrutinized. If marijuana were made legal, the cartels would lose much of their power, and the states could tax marijuana to combat real threats, such as hard drugs like meth and heroin, drugs that have been shown to have a devastating effect on both the user and society, drugs that do promote violence and crime. As of now, the only violence associated with marijuana is street crime in order to push the substance. This is a direct result of prohibition. Alcohol had the same polarizing effect in the 1920-30’s during prohibition with massive wars between mafias and law enforcement. Very similar, in fact, to what is happening now on the border.

The war on Drugs is a serious issue that must be addressed. The best thing to do would be to start over. Determine what drugs should or should not be illegal, the possible effects, and outcomes. Define an enemy and target that enemy, then figure out the best means to combat this enemy. It is important to make sure decisions and laws are not being made for arbitrary reasons, but there is, in fact, good, logical reasoning behind what we do. This will ensure a balanced approach to the war on drugs and ultimately prevent us from throwing good money after bad. Could you imagine if the U.S. government legalized and then taxed marijuana? Cartels would lose billions in street value, which results in loss of power. They would be forced to compete with a free market enterprise, something that cannot be done. When prohibition was lifted, Mafias had to move on to other means of racketeering, because alcohol was no longer profitable. This would force the drug cartels to push more hard drugs, i.e. meth, heroin, crack, and cocaine. Their market would drop in size; the users of these hard drugs are nowhere close to the casual user of marijuana. The money made through taxation of marijuana could be utilized to fight cartels and violence associated with proven drugs of destruction. While initially, this may sound as an extreme measure, the more you look at the markets and who gains power from what, it may not be so extreme after all.

[This message has been edited by NickD3.4 (edited 03-19-2010).]

Treat it like alcohol & tobacco.
Apply those laws & tax the hell out of it.

Win-win.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Treat it like alcohol & tobacco. Apply those laws & tax the hell out of it. Win-win.

Ditto

------------------
Dealing with failure is easy: work hard to improve. Success is also easy to handle: you've solved the wrong problem, work hard to improve.

Thank you for making every point that I would have, and do, whenever the topic comes up.
It means a great deal, especially coming from the perspective of a LEO.

And no, I don't smoke. I'm subject to a random whiz quiz at any time, at my work.
Before they institued that little piece of illegal (IMHO) BS, it was maybe 3-4 times per year.
Such a threat to society, my co-workers and myself.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Treat it like alcohol & tobacco. Apply those laws & tax the hell out of it. Win-win.

x3

I do not smoke marijuana, never have, and likely never will. However, I personally feel that the tax money that I spend on the police forces that take their time to prosecute this "crime" could be put to better use. So many people use marijuana now that the idea that it's a crime is almost contradictory to it being illegal for use. I think the biggest hurdle is that indeed the government doesn't know how or can come up with an "effective" method to tax it. When they do however, I bet that it won't take anytime at all to make it legal.

They'll probably come up with some sort of identification system that will be like you pay a tax to sell/use it. If you don't provide the ID, you go to jail. I can see something like that coming into play to make money off of it.

make it legal for the troops

Alot of people assume because im in LE, I would be against this. Many officers I know however, agree that its a joke. Marijuana is weak sauce compared to that of alcohol. I have NEVER responded to a fight, rape, car accident, or any other significant event because the patron was high on weed. It just doesn't happened. I have have responded to ALL of those b/c of Alcohol.

I think people have listened to the rhetoric for so long about the "evils" of marijuana, that people have a hard time being honest with them selves, government included. No, its not that bad after all, and no, there is no pot head lurking in the shadows waiting to pounce on innocent women like depicted in the 1950's public awareness videos. I think we may be suffering as a society and nation from a lingering episode of 1930's propaganda.

18,000 people have died on the border of Mexico since 2006. Do you realize how much would change in the Cartel war and power with their largest product becoming worthless on the street?

I'm actually torn on this issue.

On the one hand, the Libertarian in me says if they want to do it, have at it, it doesn't affect me.

OTOH, I look at alcohol and tobacco (of which I use both) and really wish I could turn back the hands of time so that it was never legal and never accepted by society. But it is and that genie's never going back in the bottle. The question then is, do we let another genie out?

I know, a lot of you say "It's out already". I repectfully disagree. It's still, for the most part, an underground activity. You almost never see it done openly at an airport, or in a restaurant, or anyplace like that. It's done in private, by and large (although I realize there are places this is not true).

So, that's where I stand on it. If it becomes legal (which it won't, at least not for the forseeable future), it's not going to get my panties in a bunch but I strongly urge you not to do it around ME or I'm going to exercise a few rights of my own (the smell triggers migraines in me).

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by NickD3.4: I had to write a paper about the war on drugs. As a cop, I can honestly say, in my experience, Marijuana has not played a major role in crime or violence, except for the i-product of it being illegal. The fact its illegal, causes these things to happen.

I did a similar paper in school 20 years ago, from an economics angle and came up with the conclusion that we cant.

From what i could tell, the additional users + new taxes would never make up for the reductions in cost to the end user. ( remember an economy is just as much about movement of money as it is the total value.. )

Im just not seeing how keeping it illegal is doing any good. Its costing outrageous amounts of money to combat something that is more common and easier for teens to get then alcohol. I kinda think to continue to spend money, time, and man power on something as mild as marijuana is counter intuitive. As far as public use, I imagine it would be much like smoking. Here in AZ, you cant smoke in public places.

[This message has been edited by NickD3.4 (edited 03-19-2010).]

x4
I know way too many normal rational fully productive adults who still use and have no issues.
Much like booze, if you're going to abuse you'll find something to abuse. If you can self regulate you'll be fine.

Might as well start selling and taxing so we can pay for Obamacare.

Great post Nick, and thanks for saying that.

I'm not a user, but have been accused of it by local LEO's for years. I'm one that thinks there are more problems caused by Alcohol than Marijuana ever thought of creating. But I doubt it'll be legal (can be used openly by anyone, without a prescription) in our lifetimes. It's sad too, because it's a lot like prohibition, it is creating a way for criminals to make money.

Brad

Yes

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: Great post Nick, and thanks for saying that. I'm not a user, but have been accused of it by local LEO's for years. I'm one that thinks there are more problems caused by Alcohol than Marijuana ever thought of creating. But I doubt it'll be legal (can be used openly by anyone, without a prescription) in our lifetimes. It's sad too, because it's a lot like prohibition, it is creating a way for criminals to make money. Brad

I agree %100. I use to be against legalizing it, but after seeing where true crime was coming from, and my real world experience with it, the rhetoric is false. Its just empty accusations, mainly by people who have no first hand experience with it. Like I said, the ONLY violence that I can think of or know of associated with marijuana, is created by its value, and its only valuable because of prohibition. Just like the 30's. Do you see gang bangers killing each other over liquor today? In the 1920's and 30's it was bloody times because of the value liquor got once it became illegal.

I agree with you completely. I personally don't smoke or drink or partake in any kind of drug though(except prescription anti psychotics).

But with me the rub is monetary. I make a good business selling equipment for people to grow indoors. It is just a side business at the nursery but it makes enough that I wouldn't want walmart and sears selling this equipment for basically nothing if it became legal.

So I like it illegal even though I think it should be legal.


Now on the other hand I also think crank should be made free so anyone that wants can completely OD on the stuff and slowly but surely get rid of them. Sad I feel that way especially since I have had family into that **** . I seen what the collateral damage was so I still think it better to let them OD faster.

[This message has been edited by pokeyfiero (edited 03-19-2010).]

quote Originally posted by jstricker: I'm actually torn on this issue. On the one hand, the Libertarian in me says if they want to do it, have at it, it doesn't affect me. OTOH, I look at alcohol and tobacco (of which I use both) and really wish I could turn back the hands of time so that it was never legal and never accepted by society. But it is and that genie's never going back in the bottle. The question then is, do we let another genie out? I know, a lot of you say "It's out already". I repectfully disagree. It's still, for the most part, an underground activity. You almost never see it done openly at an airport, or in a restaurant, or anyplace like that. It's done in private, by and large (although I realize there are places this is not true). So, that's where I stand on it. If it becomes legal (which it won't, at least not for the forseeable future), it's not going to get my panties in a bunch but I strongly urge you not to do it around ME or I'm going to exercise a few rights of my own (the smell triggers migraines in me). John Stricker

I think it stupid to keep it illegal. Why waste the money on keeping it that way. I wonder what the world would be like if it was legal. Hmm something to compete against cotton. A fast renewable source for paper. Its a shame that the stigma of getting high keeps us as a society from reaping the rewards of a fast reproducing crop. I bet if they made an alternate fuel source out of it they would make it legal.

I use to get high, its been no secret. I haven't gotten high in over 22 years, it clashed with the life style I wanted. But that doesn't mean I cant see the other benefits.
Would I get high again if it wasn't illegal, yes I would but only out of curiosity. I wouldn't keep getting high because I like my life and I'm not looking for a way to ignore who I am.

It is a lot easier to grow your own marijuans than to brew white lightning or beer. When you grow your own, to be shared by like minded pot heads, there will be no tax revenue generated. A room in your house will generate a nice crop.

The abuse that can happen when stoned or drunk is my concern, not to yourself, but your interactions with the general sober population.

quote Originally posted by NickD3.4: Im just not seeing how keeping it illegal is doing any good. Its costing outrageous amounts of money to combat something that is more common and easier for teens to get then alcohol. I kinda think to continue to spend money, time, and man power on something as mild as marijuana is counter intuitive. As far as public use, I imagine it would be much like smoking. Here in AZ, you cant smoke in public places.

Yes, and that governmental funding is part of the equation keeping it illegal.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Yes

Ditto.
There is nothing wrong with it. Its stupid that it is even illegal.
Hell of a lot safer than alcohol, not to mention there is so much money to be made.
I also think it is stupid to keep filling up our jails with people booked on simple possession.
Most and I mean most people caught with that are not bad people.
I will quit there, I could go on and on and on about this.



Zach

quote Originally posted by Old Lar: The abuse that can happen when stoned or drunk is my concern, not to yourself, but your interactions with the general sober population.

I'd bet money that right now, of you go to a grocery store on any given day, you will deal with at least 3 people whom used Marijuana within the past 4 hours. You will probably also deal with 2 that have had a beer in the last hour. I'm not talking about only employees, I am talking about everyone in the store.

I'd also be that we could line up 10 people, and have someone pick the person who smokes pot on a daily basis, and they would miss.

I don't know what abuse would happen? Are they gonna snatch your Cheetos? [more or less kidding about the Cheetos]

Please define abuse.

Brad

quote Originally posted by User00013170: Yes, and that governmental funding is part of the equation keeping it illegal.

that's a good point.

When you research the politics behind illegalizing weed in the 30's, you find that the politicians rallying against it were in the pocket ti the cotton industry. There is also speculation it was made ilegal to target blacks and Hispanics, they were both classes that used it most at the time.

this all seems pretty logical to me. Now ere stuck with he leftover talking points of how "bad" the stuff is.

reminds me of when Thomas Edison was competing again Tesla for A/C vs DC power. Edison claimed A/C power was dangerous, and tried to prove it by publicly electrocuting an elephant.

As if D/C power wouldn't have killed it either juiced up right?.....LOL.

Here is a fact I find funny. You cant over dose on marijuana and die, logically speaking. How many teens die a year from Alcohol poisoning?

[This message has been edited by NickD3.4 (edited 03-19-2010).]

This reminded me of this movie.

For the record, I am for the decriminalization of marijuana. It should be legal and taxed. This would take away the money the cartels and gangs are making from the illegal sale of it.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 03-19-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Old Lar: It is a lot easier to grow your own marijuans than to brew white lightning or beer. When you grow your own, to be shared by like minded pot heads, there will be no tax revenue generated. A room in your house will generate a nice crop. The abuse that can happen when stoned or drunk is my concern, not to yourself, but your interactions with the general sober population.

I understand your reluctance, well that may not be the correct word but its the best I got. I have never hurt anyone but myself when I was high on MJ. I cant say the same thing about drinking.

Far worse things in life than worrying about pot heads, heck most of the time they wont get off the couch anyway.

quote Originally posted by NickD3.4: Alot of people assume because im in LE, I would be against this. Many officers I know however, agree that its a joke. ...

I didn't make my previous comment because I was surprised that you were in favor of legalization.
I'm just pleased to see an opinion voiced by someone who is in a position to know what the real world effects are, and how people act (or don't act) while under its influence.

quote Originally posted by Old Lar: ... The abuse that can happen when stoned or drunk is my concern, not to yourself, but your interactions with the general sober population.

Hey Lar,
The effects are about as opposite as you can get.

Or as I heard it described...

Drunk drivers run red lights.
Stoned drivers stop for green ones.

I have never hurt anyone else while I've been drinking and while I can't remember how old I was the first time I had a beer, I remember it happening. We had just gotten done hauling in the last load of bales for the day and dad went in and got everyone that had worked in the heat all day a beer. I would guess I was 9 or so, which means I've been drinking something for the last 45 years, give or take.

That's not true of everyone, though. A lot of people hurt others while drunk. I suspect if marijuana is legal, you'll see a lot more incidences of auto accidents while stoned as well because of the slowed reflexes and impaired judgment. But that doesn't mean DRIVING while stoned would be legal. Neither is drinking, but it still happens because drinking is accepted and legal as long as you're not driving, but people always have to stretch the envelope a little farther.

Now all that said, I'll say again that it wouldn't really tick me off to have it legal. I just see no benefit from it.

As I told Blackrams earlier this evening, I think it's because I honestly just don't care anymore. The US is a lost cause anyway, I just hope I don't live to see it completely collapse, but I think the odds of me leaving this mortal earth before that happens is less than 50/50.

John STricker

quote Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: I understand your reluctance, well that may not be the correct word but its the best I got. I have never hurt anyone but myself when I was high on MJ. I cant say the same thing about drinking. Far worse things in life than worrying about pot heads, heck most of the time they wont get off the couch anyway.

Look to the core! Drinking, drugs and anything else you can abuse is just a destruction. Be who you are!

I have been drinking for about 2 hours, what do I miss? Friends, a good pipe tobacco and a stripper.
Some guy in the chat has me listening to 1980s music and wishing i was 17 again.

Actually NickD3.4 the DC would not have killed the elephant, much much safer than AC. Edison would throw dogs from the pound on grids of AC and grids of DC and only the AC grids killed the dogs. Killed them horribly and in great pain, Edison was an evil man.

If I had been listening to 80's music for a couple of hours I would have been drinking heavily too.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: Look to the core! Drinking, drugs and anything else you can abuse is just a destruction. Be who you are! I have been drinking for about 2 hours, what do I miss? Friends, a good pipe tobacco and a stripper. Some guy in the chat has me listening to 1980s music and wishing i was 17 again.

If given a choice between being in a roomful of stoners and a roomful of alkies...the stoners, hands down.

"This stuff doesn't affect me one bit...anybody got a fifty pound bag of Oreo cookies?"

I'd vote for legalization just to choke off the money supply for the cartels...and tax it at ten bucks an ounce.

Obama wants healthcare paid for? If he'd gone about it this way, it would be the first time in decades the federal govt. ran in the black, and the debate would be over.

Just one thought to throw into the equation that I was curious about...

What do you do with all the people that are currently in jail because of marijuana?

I have no idea, and really don't care whether or not it gets legalized. I still feel that those who want to smoke will, and those who don't want to, won't.

Legalize, yes.

I am all for making pot and prostitution legal.I am 70 and have never used pot or visited a prostitute.I know there are vast segments of our population that disagree with me.Now for my reasons:My younger brother Russ died about 1.5 years ago.He had occasionally smoked pot and knew that the cancer killing him and causing his pain could be held back,it relieved his nausea and improved his appetite(both problems caused by the cancer).I believe it helped the end of his life be a little better ! If prostitution were legalized it could be controlled,taxed,licensed and would free up a portion of our law enforcement personnel to take care of serious crime.

quote Originally posted by Old Lar: It is a lot easier to grow your own marijuans than to brew white lightning or beer. When you grow your own, to be shared by like minded pot heads, there will be no tax revenue generated. A room in your house will generate a nice crop.

It also is alot easier to grow yourself then it is to grow and treat tobacco leaves for smoking.

That's the rub with me. If your going to legalize it so it can be taxed, then your going to have to prohibit private growth. If you prohibate private growth, then your still going to be batteling it with LEO's. After all, how can someone tax what I grow in my house/backyard?

* I do not smoke marijuana * I tried it once in my younger days and all it did was make me feel like I was freezing. I hate being cold...

quote Originally posted by hugh: I am all for making pot and prostitution legal.I am 70 and have never used pot or visited a prostitute.I know there are vast segments of our population that disagree with me.Now for my reasons:My younger brother Russ died about 1.5 years ago.He had occasionally smoked pot and knew that the cancer killing him and causing his pain could be held back,it relieved his nausea and improved his appetite(both problems caused by the cancer).I believe it helped the end of his life be a little better ! If prostitution were legalized it could be controlled,taxed,licensed and would free up a portion of our law enforcement personnel to take care of serious crime.

AMEN!!!

Who are we kidding here, we always pay for it, whether people admit it or not is another story.

A lot of you lucky guys are going to pay an extra payment for 18+ years.

Brad

On yet another libertarian track, why should casino operations be limited to Indian Tribes?

What happened to free enterprise in vices?

quote Originally posted by spark1: On yet another libertarian track, why should casino operations be limited to Indian Tribes? What happened to free enterprise in vices?

Not all Casino's are owned by Indian Tribes. Go to Vegas .

Brad

Exactly!

quote Originally posted by NickD3.4: I had to write a paper about the war on drugs. As a cop, I can honestly say, in my experience, Marijuana has not played a major role in crime or violence, except for the i-product of it being illegal. The fact its illegal, causes these things to happen.

I've always been COMPLETELY against the legalization of marijuana. Anyone that tries to tout it's medical benefits is just a complete idiot because the argument works in the same way as saying that cutting off your testicals prevents testicular cancer. However, I've had an epiphony...

It occured to me that honestly the overwhelming vast majority of pot heads are liberals. Yes, this is true...

With that said, why would I WANT to save them from self inflicted misfortune???

Pot smoking breeds apathy, and if it will keep these morons from going to the polls because they are too lazy, then I am in COMPLETE support of legalization.

------------------
Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: ...It occured to me that honestly the overwhelming vast majority of pot heads are liberals...

You might be surprised.