If a country can simply seize 11 expensive US company owned oil rigs without a whimper, we're beyond done.

Why aren't the shareholders marching?

http://www.breitbart.com/ar...0.5b1&show_article=1

quote Venezuela's legislature has voted to nationalize 11 oil rigs owned by the US firm Helmerich & Payne. The rigs, located in Monagas, Anzoategui and Zulia states, will be taken over by state oil giant Petroleos de Venezuela (PDVSA), the official news agency AVN said. PDVSA had asked the legislature controlled by supporters of leftist President Hugo Chavez to take over the rigs after the US firm declined to negotiate a new service contract, unlike 32 other foreign firms. The oil giant is South America's top oil producer. Since 2007 Caracas has nationalized companies in industries from oil to utilities, to telecoms, cement, steel and banking.

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 06-30-2010).]

And besides bending over, The pres will do what, moan?

Yep, business as usual for Obama. Foriegn government takes over American property and he throws out the baseball for a home game. He wont do a damn thing about it because he wouldnt want to offend them. Other presidents would have sent in US military to secure them. Bet they dont try that crap with Israel, theyd be bombing the presidential palace within hours.

quote Originally posted by aaronkoch: If a country can simply seize 11 expensive US company owned oil rigs without a whimper, we're beyond done. Why aren't the shareholders marching? http://www.breitbart.com/ar...0.5b1&show_article=1

Is anyone okay with this? Seriously? Where is the outrage? I saw we takeover every Citgo resource in the US and US waters, if there are any until they reverse their decision (after we've sent in a naval convoy of course).

We need to send a carrier group down there, and demand either:

1) Cease and desist, with guarantee of non-interference punishable by death.

or

2) Payment for seized properties at full market value, paid in gold, with percentage of revenue paid in gold quarterly.

I'm completely for our Gov't seizing BPs assetts (If any are left that are safe/unexploded in our waters) to pay for their mess... no way will that company be around when any actual 'repaying of damages' actually might occur.. they will be long bankrupt before then, I bet. They can make all the promises they want, no one has ever cleaned up a mess like this, and we need every dime we can get as a country to pay for cleanup. Maybe we should just storm BPs stations and refineries and take them hostage.. the workers would likely not even care or put up a fight. I know you may think this sounds a little socialist, but BP tarnished our gulf waters, possibly forever, they do not deserve to do business in our country any more in my opinion, why can't we lay it on their doorstep, so to speak, they caused it?

Anyhow, Venezuela made all of their domestic oil producers/refiners nationalize a few years back, it does not surprise me one bit that they want to tie up the rest of the loose ends and make it all one governemnt controlled enterprise. Chavez is not stupid, he knows there is no way we can do anything about this right now. Can we start building more solar and wind farms now, or will we be content to wait on that until every dollar has been made on oil possible until it runs out? Will we face another oil shortage crisis, one that we KNOW is preventable, and in the meantime 11 US rigs, billions in assetts, just get grabbed up by someone else. Talk about a monumental waste of money. If we ever do 'run out of oil'. then "What a Miracle!" Our saviors, (oil and auto companies. rich oil barons) "find" a technology that allows everyone to use their cars with no gas at all! AND JUST IN THE NICK OF TIME!! (Now that they drained every cent out of their oil production investments, they can finally get around to letting scuttled alt energy engine projects see the light of day. If I had money to bet...well, I have no money... but just expect the worst out of people, and you won't be disappointed.

[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 06-30-2010).]

Venezuela has paid for everything they ''take'' at full market rates
look it up before posting BS here

quote Originally posted by ray b: Venezuela has paid for everything they ''take'' at full market rates look it up before posting BS here

http://abcnews.go.com/Busin...ireStory?id=11024673
Says they'll pay after working out fair market value.
Is that determined by Venezuela or some other entity?

quote Originally posted by ray b: Venezuela has paid for everything they ''take'' at full market rates look it up before posting BS here

So did they pay up already as you stated, or is your statement BS and you owe an apology?

Uncle Hugo and the guy running Iran --and the North Korean guy-- remind me of little kids who belittle and throw rocks at a bulldog or a rottweiler on a chain. They harass the dog --with rocks, poke it with sticks and yell at it...and stay just outside its reach and giggle while they do it as they see the dog react in torment...

Problem is one day they are going to throw one to many rocks and the dog will break free from his leash and then... well you get the idea.

The idea is who is going to get it first: Iran VZ or NK?

This sort of thing has been going on a long time. Mexico nationalized the railroads and oil many years ago. The U.S. just nationalized GM, the banking system and health care.


Nationalized Venezuela oil service firms await cash

quote U.S. company Helmerich & Payne (HP.N), one of drillers that PDVSA owed large sums to last year, said in January that it expected to take a $20 million hit in Venezuela after the January 8 devaluation of the bolivar and said eight of its 11 drills were still idled while it awaits payment.

Above is from March 20. I guess Helmerich & Payne will be waiting for payment even longer now.

[This message has been edited by spark1 (edited 06-30-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Uaana: BTW Ray as a follow up if I come take your boat but promise you that I'll pay for it later would you be ok with that? What if you don't want the money but want to keep the boat for your own use? Just because you'll get some money for it doesn't exactly mean that you were willing to give it up.

during the second world war the USA grabbed almost all large boats
many were used as spotters/coastwatchers
most were returned to the owners post war

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Question wonder and be wierd
are you kind?

The article is very vague, just says they declined to negotiate a new contract. Has the current contract expired? Are the current owners abandoning the sites? Has the production at these sites declined? Just not enough info in the article to give an opinion on the legal, moral, or financial consequences and impact.

As far as Rays comment that Hugo's administration/government has "paid fair market value" is BS, a promise to pay is not the same as having already paid. And as another already stated, who is determining "fair market value"? In my little world "fair market value" is determined by two factors, supply and demand or a price negotiated by the buyer and seller. Hugo seems to only see DEMAND! By force if necessary

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Dealing with failure is easy: work hard to improve. Success is also easy to handle: you've solved the wrong problem, work hard to improve.

quote Originally posted by ray b: during the second world war the USA grabbed almost all large boats many were used as spotters/coastwatchers most were returned to the owners post war

Nice to see you skating on the issue of whether they have actually been paid as you stated previously.

[This message has been edited by partfiero (edited 06-30-2010).]

quote Originally posted by ray b: during the second world war the USA grabbed almost all large boats many were used as spotters/coastwatchers most were returned to the owners post war

That comparison is absolutely ridiculous, to say that a country's government in time of great overwhelming crisis appropriated assets to save the country from eminent threat of attack and occupation by a aggressive foreign power compares to what Hugo Chavez is doing, is ignorant!

[This message has been edited by DRA (edited 06-30-2010).]

quote Originally posted by ray b: during the second world war the USA grabbed almost all large boats many were used as spotters/coastwatchers most were returned to the owners post war

When did we go to war with Venezuela?

Why not we would have ( will ) if we had the chance.

quote Originally posted by Uaana: BTW Ray as a follow up if I come take your boat but promise you that I'll pay for it later would you be ok with that? What if you don't want the money but want to keep the boat for your own use? Just because you'll get some money for it doesn't exactly mean that you were willing to give it up.

quote Originally posted by RayB:during the second world war the USA grabbed almost all large boats many were used as spotters/coastwatchers most were returned to the owners post war

I don't think Ray was trying to compare the WWII seizure of boats to the Venezuelan seizure of oil rigs.

I think it was more of a way to skirt the question of

quote Originally posted by partfiero: So did they pay up already as you stated, or is your statement BS and you owe an apology?

edited to put the /QUOTE after the quotes

[This message has been edited by 1988holleyformula (edited 06-30-2010).]

quote Originally posted by 1988holleyformula: I don't think Ray was trying to compare the WWII seizure of boats to the Venezuelan seizure of oil rigs. I think it was more of a way to skirt the question of

Well he did a poor job. The only way his example would work is if Germany was taking the boats.

quote Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: Well he did a poor job. The only way his example would work is if Germany was taking the boats.

And even then only if the Germans were at a time of peace.

quote Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: When did we go to war with Venezuela?

I'm all for it. As long as we keep it.

Reminds me of the guy who bulldozed his house, that is if the rigs are actually being seized.
Sure you can have them, let me finish wiring these explosives before I leave.

I'm sorry..really am..........

but I am busy LMFAO, ROTFFLMDO, and think I just laughed so hard I pooped..........

If I get this straight......ya'all are outraged that a foreign country (that you are not in) is nationalizing something from an an American company (that you dont own) and want to start a war over it........

But when city council, state goobernenment, feds, local PD..."nationalize" everything from your paycheque to your kids to your car to you home that you DO own......ya'all with basically grumble--and do nothing.

UMMMM.......YEH !

Just FYI, what they're doing is nothing new. This is a risk any oil company takes when they set up in foreign areas, the risk that the govt of the area they're in may change their rules and possibly take things over. Oil companies are well aware of this risk. You set up on their land, you go by their rules, and they can change their rules anytime they want because you are just a guest, to put it simply. I personally think it sucks, but if you're willing to take that chance then you have to be ready and willing to suffer the potential consequences

The shareholders can't do jack squat about it. If they're pissed, it's an example of why you should be very well informed about what you're investing in and the risks associated with that investment.

[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 06-30-2010).]

Nothing to do with oil, but this is why a gave away a bunch of land and a house in Belize I inheirited. My aunt wanted it, so shes got it. Government there can walk in any second and say thanks, and kick you out. There all a little bit worse than IRS.

Things that make you go Hmmm...
http://video.foxnews.com/v/...=4266721&w=400&h=249
or
http://video.foxnews.com/v/...that-make-you-go-hmm

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 07-01-2010).]

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: I'm sorry..really am.......... but I am busy LMFAO, ROTFFLMDO, and think I just laughed so hard I pooped.......... If I get this straight......ya'all are outraged that a foreign country (that you are not in) is nationalizing something from an an American company (that you dont own) and want to start a war over it........ But when city council, state goobernenment, feds, local PD..."nationalize" everything from your paycheque to your kids to your car to you home that you DO own......ya'all with basically grumble--and do nothing. UMMMM.......YEH !

I am not sure...is this a joke post? I don't get it.

I sure hope to God it wasn't meant to be serious

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Things that make you go Hmmm... http://video.foxnews.com/v/...=4266721&w=400&h=249 or http://video.foxnews.com/v/...that-make-you-go-hmm

The first link goes to a page with half complete CSS code..

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: ...... If I get this straight......ya'all are outraged that a foreign country (that you are not in) is nationalizing something from an an American company (that you dont own) and want to start a war over it........

Actually, I agree with him. Where's the logic in sending son, daughters, brothers, sisters, moms, dads etc, into harms way to be involved in a third war to protect assets that were in jeopardy the moment they were placed onto foreign soil? This already precludes the fact that almost a trillion dollars have been spent on the other two wars. Had we spent that money on R & D for renewable energy, maybe we wouldn't need that foreign oil. But then again, we're in Iraq over fictitious weapons of mass-destruction. At least we can prove this one.

quote Originally posted by carnut122: Actually, I agree with him. Where's the logic in sending son, daughters, brothers, sisters, moms, dads etc, into harms way to be involved in a third war to protect assets that were in jeopardy the moment they were placed onto foreign soil? This already precludes the fact that almost a trillion dollars have been spent on the other two wars. Had we spent that money on R & D for renewable energy, maybe we wouldn't need that foreign oil. But then again, we're in Iraq over fictitious weapons of mass-destruction. At least we can prove this one.

The only viable renewable energy that mankind has, and maybe ever will develop is the one that sends shivers down a liberal's spine just mentioning its name.
Everything else that is even being considered are pipe dreams, and have been since their inception.
We either start building those power plants or we will be mired in oil wars till there is no more oil to be found.

Hey! What is that big orange thing in the sky? Oh yeah, it is a giant fusion reactor, that continually emits FREE energy. I think that I may be mentally breaking down. My thoughts seem to race. I need to go and just shake the shat out of some random human. I will get back with ya, and let you know how it went...


Edit: The sun is a fusion reactor. I originall posted fission, and corrected it for the truth. Thanks Rallaster.
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[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 07-02-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: Hey! What is that big orange thing in the sky? Oh yeah, it is a giant fission reactor, that continually emits FREE energy. I think that I may be mentally breaking down. My thoughts seem to race. I need to go and just shake the shat out of some random human. I will get back with ya, and let you know how it went...

Well to this date they have not figured out how to harness enough of that free energy to supply more than a small amount of what we need, especially during the 12 hours it ain't shining. Ain't free to convert it either. And we have been trying for decades and have dumped tons of money into it.
But we have created our own little sun that shines 24/7/365.

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: Hey! What is that big orange thing in the sky? Oh yeah, it is a giant fission reactor, that continually emits FREE energy. I think that I may be mentally breaking down. My thoughts seem to race. I need to go and just shake the shat out of some random human. I will get back with ya, and let you know how it went...

Actually, that's a fusion reactor. It doesn't split atoms to make it's energy, it fuses them together..

quote Originally posted by carnut122: Actually, I agree with him. Where's the logic in sending son, daughters, brothers, sisters, moms, dads etc, into harms way to be involved in a third war to protect assets that were in jeopardy the moment they were placed onto foreign soil? This already precludes the fact that almost a trillion dollars have been spent on the other two wars. Had we spent that money on R & D for renewable energy, maybe we wouldn't need that foreign oil. But then again, we're in Iraq over fictitious weapons of mass-destruction. At least we can prove this one.

Agreed.

quote from linky Venezuela's legislature has voted to nationalize 11 oil rigs owned by the US firm Helmerich & Payne. PDVSA had asked the legislature controlled by supporters of leftist President Hugo Chavez to take over the rigs after the US firm declined to negotiate a new service contract, unlike 32 other foreign firms.

I have worked for Helmerich & Payne. A top notch drilling contractor with excellent experience, some of the most modern equipment in the world, and a very safety conscious organization.
Other links I have read suggest it was not because of refusing to renegotiate drilling contracts. New contracts were not negotiated due to non payment for work done. At one time $100 million, down to $43 million at present.
Another linky

quote linky Other oil services companies have complained about delayed payments. Dallas-based Ensco International Inc. said last year that it had suspended drilling off Venezuela's Caribbean coast because it was owed $35 million — prompting PDVSA to take over its operations. Starting in 2008, PDVSA accumulated unpaid debts of about $7.5 billion to oil industry service contractors. The state oil company paid off more than $5 billion of those debts in 2009, partly relying on bonds to cover its obligations. (This paragraph to be re-quoted later.)

Helmerich & Payne's world headquarters are located in Tulsa Oklahoma.
Linky from the Tulsa World Daily Newspaper

quote from linky Williams Cos. Inc. of Tulsa, a natural gas producer, lost two joint-venture compression plants to seizure last year and also was forced to take a $241 million write-down on its books because of nonpayment. ConocoPhillips, the integrated oil giant with significant offices in Bartlesville, lost multibillion-dollar joint venture projects to seizure by PDVSA. The Houston company later sought international arbitration over the compensation offered by Venezuela.

quote re-quote Starting in 2008, PDVSA accumulated unpaid debts of about $7.5 billion to oil industry service contractors. The state oil company paid off more than $5 billion of those debts in 2009, partly relying on bonds to cover its obligations.

Another failed example of socialism, . They have to rely on bonds to pay a debt which could have been paid from production. Who the hell would buy their bonds ? Uncle Hugo offered free or low cost gas to us, as a propaganda tool, when Katrina and Rita hit Texas.

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: If I get this straight......

You don't.