Help me build a minimalist carputer please.

Quick background:
Since I started tuning my AWD Talon 9 years ago or so, I've dreamed of being able to tune it, in-full, from an in-dash head unit loaded with Windows and my tuning software and also including Navi, DVD, MP3, etc. etc. To date, a good all-in-one unit does not exist, though we're getting close I think (there is one Chinese mfgr that makes one sold by many different brands, but it has poor reviews and no support)...

Fast forward, switch application to turbo Fiero, same exact idea: I finally found a very nice single-din flip-out touch screen head unit for a price that I can afford (on sale) that includes everything I want, except for the PC.

http://www.pioneerelectroni...rs/AVH-P5200BT?tab=D



So, no integrated computer still, but it's time to roll, I can no longer wait for this as my time is too valuable now. I need a built-in at-the-ready setup to tune my Fiero's '730 ECU via Tunerpro RT ( http://tunerpro.net/ ) and my Moates Ostrich 2.0 emulator ( http://www.moates.net/ostri...ckordered-p-169.html ). Enter the minimalist carputer idea.


The Pioneer HU includes an A/V input via RCA cables. My thought is that if I can use this HU as a monitor for a low-power carputer via this composite video input then I can have my all-in-one solution, save for a small wireless mouse and keyboard to stuff away, or even possibly using the Pioneer's touchscreen capability to interface with Windows.

I've read that composite video feed is of poor enough quality that it would be difficult to see any words or numbers on the screen. It can't be that bad, can it? Tunerpro's user interface is pretty simple.
There are VGA to composite converters available since I probably won't be able to find a PC with RCA outputs, which may further degrade the signal. Any advice on this matter?

I don't need much of a PC, all I need it to do is run Tunerpro RT. The minimum requirements are these:

Pentium 300 mhz or better
32 MB RAM or better
Win98 SE or better
1024 x 768 or better resolution capability
USB input

There seem to be several options for a bare-bones PC, from cheap old PC parts thrown together to expensive brand new small fanless units designed for rugged mobile apps. I need something low cost and simple, something in between.

Any ideas, or am I barking up the wrong screen?

Thanks for the help.




------------------

'10 Camaro LT/RS, 312hp V6 6-speed
'88 Fiero GT - coming soon! - Project MIDTRBO

The rest of my cars are for sale
There's no replacement for turbo placement

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 08-23-2010).]

I'm building my CarPC from an old laptop. I'm using a car power adapter for normal power, but the laptop battery can keep it in hibernation drawing minimal power from the car to keep the battery charged, this also allows quick boot up. The system is self contained and can be mounted in such a way so as to allow to pull it out and use the built in keyboard and touchpad if necessary. System like the one you describe can be had really cheap. I'm using an old IBM x61t tablet with the touch screen.

Buy a netbook. Tear the screen off of it and build a connector to lengthen the connection. You can even at touch displays to a bunch of the models.

There can be a very bad effect on the display if you go to an RCA (composite) connection. Not only will everything be blurry, but it may be off-centered and there is not much you can do about it. You may be able to go with an RCA to VGA adapter and it will work fine. As far as a PC goes, I have built many for cars. If you want to do it yourself, go here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Intel-D...38334?pt=Desktop_PCs

You might consider a Mac mini or similar computer.

Quite small, can dual boot with Windows, lots of power for their size (even though you don't need that much, you can never have too much power. )

And yes, composite video will have quite poor video quality. I really would suggest looking for a different head unit if possible. Something with at least VGA-in would be optimal.

How about this...
http://www.portalmediapc.com/n52.html

Premade and ready to go. However you do it, make sure you use solid state laptop hard drives. Bumps kill spinning platters

Thanks for the advice.

It really sucks that the Pioneer HU has such a great price ($486.50 on sale through this Saturday) and is PERFECT for me except for the useless video input.
I'll look into other HU's but I'm pretty sure I won't find anything else with nearly the bang for the buck. I might just have to swipe it up anyway, but I'd have to figure out something else for a built-in monitor. :/

I'm still thinking about my options. This car will be hell to dial in without a dedicated setup.

quote Originally posted by 8Ball: How about this... http://www.portalmediapc.com/n52.html Premade and ready to go. However you do it, make sure you use solid state laptop hard drives. Bumps kill spinning platters

Oh wow, somehow I missed that one. It seems legit.



I'm researching more.
The problem is that it's a double-din unit and I don't have double-din space. A custom dash (or even center console) is a ways off because there is much left to do to the car first. That's why I want a single-din flip up unit. Well that, and the screens are slightly larger, and it's less obvious what I have in the car, and there's a detachable faceplate (sort of).

The Pioneer (and similar) multimedia receivers also have an instant boot time, whereas the full PC takes a minute or so. That's fine for the tuning program, but (for example), every time I jump in the car to go to work, I need to listen to the traffic report immediately to see whether I should take the beltway or the backroads depending on traffic. I'm really close to the beltway so that needs to happen quickly. Unfortunately I can only get to work at the last minute in the mornings so I can't be stuck by going the 'wrong' way that day.
That sounds almost frivolous, but that minute really does count.
Oh, and the price tag is a little up there.

Definitely a solid state HD, wouldn't do it any other way. This car is going to be somewhat jarring!

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 08-25-2010).]

Yea, I did not realize (didn't read) that you only had a single Din. The price is high on that unit, but it is marketed for those who cannot build this on their own. for those folks.. it is a good price. The components in that system will come to around $700 or so. Then the cost of labor to have someone build it and configure it, would come to more than their asking price. But if you can build it yourself, yea you can save a few hundred.

But... Being that you only have a single din... That blows that out of the water...

Actually I agree, for what it is that's a great price I think, I was just comparing to the setup I had in mind, which would be a few hundred less.
Yeah, the single din is a want of mine anyway, I like the benefits it has over a double din.


So...
I've done more searching and figured out that the single din all-in-one-plus-monitor solution is a dead end for me with what's currently available. New thought, this just might work out great.

I'll buy the Pioneer head unit for its intended purposes (I love it!) and leave it as the standalone multimedia device. I took a long think about a couple of the above ideas and thought about how I'd mount a Windows based netbook in the car, one like this would be perfect as far as specs and price are concerned...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBay...01&ff4=263602_263622

My idea is to modify the center console storage compartment to open fully horizontal, get rid of the compartment to make it a flat panel, then mount the netbook with rubber on a low-profile swivel mount so I can open it up then rotate it toward the passenger or me depending. I'd hard-mount my emulator and datalogging cables and leave them plugged in to two USB's on the netbook end, the emulator cable plugged into the ECU, and the datalogger cable plugged into the ALDL port, which would be re-mounted to the inside of the center console since I'd no longer need it to be externally accessible anyway. Fortunately all of that is really close together, so wiring would be cake.
I'd have to top it all off with a good quality hard-wired DC-AC power inverter that would run with the ignition full time.

If that all works out, viola! I'll have a fully integrated, very capable(+) hideaway tuning suite, which is exactly what I need.

Here's where you guys come in again. First of all, are netbook hard drives the same as full laptop hard drives? If so, it shouldn't be hard to get a solid state drive to throw in. I'll also rubber-mount the netbook.
Can someone get some dimensions for me? I don't have my car back yet.
I need to know the height, width, and depth of the center storage area, that is, the depression in the center console, not the storage compartment. I'd very much appreciate it.
The dimensions of the linked netbook above are 10.4" x 7.5" x 1.5". I think that may fit with some mods, but if not my options decrease if I have to downsize, 10.1" is by far the most common size.

Lemme know what you think, advice is still welcome.

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 08-25-2010).]

That should work out. I for a while did similar. I did it quick and dirty though. Shoved the inverter under my seat and put the laptop in the pocket in the back of my seat. Then ran a wire under the center console to a lilliput monitor.

If you need a netbook that's smaller yet, check out the Sony Vaio P Series.

http://www.sonystyle.ca/web...fier=S_P_SERIES_PAGE

More expensive, of course it is, it's Sony, but you can't beat the size.

Really going to be watching this thread, quite interesting.

[This message has been edited by Valkyrie (edited 08-25-2010).]

Oh wow, those Sony's are quite a bit more expensive. The more I think about it, the more I want a 10" screen even if I have to shoehorn it in there.

Bump for dimensions?

I've used an Ipad in my cars. I've got the 3g version so GPS is quick and works with my music list. I think the low end Ipad with 3g is around $500.
Plus there's apps that allow for display of OBD2.

------------------
Henry
Red / Silver 86' Pontiac Fiero GT
Bordeaux Red Pearl 05' Lotus Elise

when/if i ever do mine, ill be using a dualcore nettop pc (ion or neo based for hd playback)

Well I just ordered that above Pioneer multimedia head unit. It'll be a perfect addition to my street-legal racecar.

I got it for $486.50 shipped, not a bad deal I think! (back in the day something with this many features would have cost $2500 or so, hah!)
I used code UIBMC8UY through Sep. 4th if anyone might find that info useful for the 95 Pioneer products that qualify. That code is for 30% off in addition to the other applied discounts, only sold by Amazon directly and not other retailers on the Amazon website. Here's the link to the 95 Pioneer products that qualify.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref...nb&p_6=ATVPDKIKX0DER
Use the code at checkout and you'll be hooked up.

I don't need the composite input of the deck I bought because I will be going with my netbook hideaway tuning-suite idea, but I won't order a netbook until I have at least the rough dimensions of the center console depression. I may have to wait until the car gets back I suppose.

Thanks for all the help everyone (past and future).
I'll try to remember to keep this thread updated, and I'm going to link to it in my build thread (which is linked here in my sig).

------------------

'10 Camaro LT/RS, 312hp V6 6-speed
'88 Fiero GT - coming soon! - Project MIDTRBO

The rest of my cars are for sale
There's no replacement for turbo placement

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 08-31-2010).]

quote Originally posted by ALLTRBO: I'd have to top it all off with a good quality hard-wired DC-AC power inverter that would run with the ignition full time.

So I'm an electronics tech at NASA, right... I had a big DUH moment last night. Netbooks require a DC input, many in the range of 12-24V. Why on earth would I convert DC to AC just to convert it back to DC again? That would waste efficiency, time, money and reliability and increase weight and complexity.
In some cases it's required when there are limited resources, but in this case it isn't.

Though, even if a given netbook runs off of 12V, it still needs to be a regulated, consistent 12V without spikes or moderate-major variations and such, so still requires a DC-DC power converter to be used in an automotive application. There are several readily available, and from a brief search I've found a couple that have proper input ranges and varying (consistent) output ranges. I'll be searching more as soon as I get time.

Oh, and solid state drives are available for netbooks.

This just keeps getting better and better.

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 08-31-2010).]

I found the exact DC-DC converter that I need and had requested a quote, but in my sleeping medication-induced haze I failed to realize that it was directly from a large manufacturer located in the UK, lol. So that's out, but here's the datasheet anyway in case someone may find interest (or a comparable product, heh).

The p/n is F351-012-120, located here-
http://www.powerstaxplc.com...%20datasheet0705.pdf

The search continues (a little bit at a time).


Oh, and a cool nerdy coworker of mine needs this exact same thing to power his netbook in his car, what a coincidence! He also reminded me of the dangers of lithium ion batteries near heat while in the charge state. Duh! I overlooked that. Easy fix, it just means that I don't have to bother with a battery at all since it'll be hardwired.

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 09-02-2010).]

I got the Pioneer head unit today, and it's as awesome as I hoped! I just couldn't wait for my Fiero to get back into my hands so I had to try it out.
I used a motorcycle battery hooked up to a 1200mA battery tender and fired it up, wired to my two shelf system speakers. My wife and I watched Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow on it. The power it puts out without distortion at high bass levels is impressive, I don't think I'll be disappointed when I run the speakers in the car off of the deck power. The sub output has a reasonable crossover and nice bass boost control, and the 8-band EQ works great. It has an auto-EQ feature that I'm guessing listens through the bluetooth mic, but I haven't tried it because I didn't hook up the mic.

The video quality is good for a 7" screen. It'll make long trips to Fiero events much more enjoyable for my wife, and if we decide to have a private surround sound theater movie experience, the Fiero is the place to be.

I can't stop playing with it, but alas, it's past bedtime. Just thought I'd share. Oh, and BTW, there is another code out for the 30% off Pioneer products through the 9th (I think). If anyone is interested, I'll post it up.

Glad the head unit worked out good for you!

Don't worry, I'm still silently stalking this thread.

I just ordered the rest of the hide-away tuning suite, a "recertified" 10.1" Asus netbook to hard mount into the rear storage compartment. It's nothing special, but it'll get the job done. I also bought a solid state drive (SSD) so that it won't get killed by every small bump, and 2GB of RAM to upgrade from 1GB. With those two upgrades and the bare-bones Windows 7 Starter, it should boot up and shut down dern near instantly.
It's very thin, only .9". The length and width will be a bit of a squeeze, but I'll make it work.