Months after our President demanded that he step down, and billions of dollars worth of missiles and bombs later, Gaddafi is still alive and ruling his country. We had normalized relations with Libya and Libya destroyed all WMD research prior to this war. We now have a enemy who will likely restart WMD research and be more motivated after withstanding such a limp wristed attack by the US and NATO.

So what exactly are we supposed to be gaining from this war again?


.

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: Months after our President demanded that he step down, and billions of dollars worth of missiles and bombs later, Gaddafi is still alive and ruling his country. We had normalized relations with Libya and Libya destroyed all WMD research prior to this war. We now have a enemy who will likely restart WMD research and be more motivated after withstanding such a limp wristed attack by the US and NATO. So what exactly are we supposed to be gaining from this war again? .

Hmmm let's see, this "war" is costing very very little compared to the other two, one that has gone on for 10 years now. Libya did not destroy all their WMD's and still have some AFAIK. There is no appetite for another ground war by the U.S. or NATO so the rebels are taking their time to organize to actually be able to overthrow Gaddafi IMO. 4 months.... How long was it supposed to take?

quote Originally posted by newf: Hmmm let's see, this "war" is costing very very little compared to the other two, one that has gone on for 10 years now. Libya did not destroy all their WMD's and still have some AFAIK. There is no appetite for another ground war by the U.S. or NATO so the rebels are taking their time to organize to actually be able to overthrow Gaddafi IMO. 4 months.... How long was it supposed to take?

Know something....I dont care about Ghadafi, I dont care about Labia, and I really dont care about African politics....and I aint willing to spend one single penny or work one single minute to mess in a SOVERIEGN nation....it IS, after all, thier country----how about we fix our own backyard before we go telling others how to run thiers.....

quote Originally posted by newf: Hmmm let's see, this "war" is costing very very little compared to the other two,

Perhaps, but what it is costing hasn't been approved by Congress, unlike the other two wars.

quote Originally posted by newf: Libya did not destroy all their WMD's and still have some AFAIK.

Source?

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: ----how about we fix our own backyard before we go telling others how to run thiers.....

Great question - I have no answer.

It all has to do with the global economy, they'll say.

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: Know something....I dont care about Ghadafi, I dont care about Labia, and I really dont care about African politics....and I aint willing to spend one single penny or work one single minute to mess in a SOVERIEGN nation....it IS, after all, thier country----how about we fix our own backyard before we go telling others how to run thiers.....

They asked for help, innocent people were being slaughtered, I'd honestly rather be helping there than Afghanistan.

[This message has been edited by newf (edited 07-28-2011).]

quote Originally posted by newf: They asked for help, innocent people were being slaughtered, I'd honestly rather be helping there than Afghanistan.

Innocent people are killed by "authorities" in every city in North America every single day and ask for help....Like I said, lets clean up here 1st....

quote Originally posted by newf: They asked for help, innocent people were being slaughtered, I'd honestly rather be helping there than Afghanistan.

In the past that has never been a reason to go to war.
Why didn't we just go into Syria or Iran or all of the other countries that are slaughtering their people?
We do not have the money or men to fight wars in 10-20 countries.
Didn't have it for the two we were already fighting, and this third one is absolutely ridiculous.
Americans are tired of these wars that just drag on.

quote Originally posted by newf: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...apons-stockpile.html http://www.reuters.com/arti...dUSTRE76B67P20110712

9.5 tons of undeliverable mustard gas. If it is undeliverable, it might as well be 9.5 tons of lead. That if from your link.

Reread what I posted. I said he destroyed his WMD research. Gaddafi used to have an active WMD research program. He ended it because he feared President Bush.

I have yet to see a good answer to the most important question of all: what exactly are we supposed to be gaining from this war?


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quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: I have yet to see a good answer to the most important question of all: what exactly are we supposed to be gaining from this war? .

Watch the left hand, forget the right hand. There is money to be made in them-dar-hills.......

For fracks sakes, a single shot fired makes money for those pol-it-tickans as there is profit in every single bullet,,,,,,every time some cripple gets tasered, another tazer gets sold....

It is ALL about the money and using human nature to supply arms and make more money...in 2,000 B.C. Nathan the Neanderthal sold stone axes to both sides and giggled over his stone coins---do ya think THAT much has changed ?????

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: 9.5 tons of undeliverable mustard gas. If it is undeliverable, it might as well be 9.5 tons of lead. That if from your link. Reread what I posted. I said he destroyed his WMD research. Gaddafi used to have an active WMD research program. He ended it because he feared President Bush. I have yet to see a good answer to the most important question of all: what exactly are we supposed to be gaining from this war? .

I doubt it would take much to make the ordinance deliverable. I didn't misunderstand what you wrote about the research but I must be about the reasoning for any stoppage.

Gaining? I would say the ending of the mass murder of innocents, the deposing of a known harbourer of terrorists and hopefully helping a country gain it's freedom would be a good thing. What was it that was gained in Iraq? How many troops have died in each? How much money has been spent on each?

[This message has been edited by newf (edited 07-29-2011).]

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: how about we fix our own backyard before we go telling others how to run thiers.....

Heck yea!! I say we start with the whiny place...What's it called... Canada? Yea, fix that bunch first, then we can start on Mexico, Then perhaps go about fighting further from home!!!

I like the way you are thinking man!

Brad

Obama is a warmonger... and he won't get approval from Congress. Where is the outrage by the lib. wackos? I guess they are still hung over from all the kool-aid.

quote Originally posted by newf: Gaining? I would say the ending of the mass murder of innocents,

How about you guys helping us out with this quest.
We will do all of the Middle East, Africa and Western Asia, you guys just do China.
Such a wonderful dream to rid the world of evil leaders who kill their people.
Totally attainable, in video game format only.

I thought this was a UN action, with Great Britian leading the parade?

but, it is cute to see "you guys" trying to sound all offended

neo-conned love Islamic-fascists dictators I guess
goes back to their royalist roots

facts are wiki-leaks has dropped 2 dictators in 6 months
and is working on 3 or 4 more now
I favor an anti-dictator world movement
esp if we can get them out without ground troop loses by our guys

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: I thought this was a UN action, with Great Britian leading the parade? but, it is cute to see "you guys" trying to sound all offended

how many US troops are there? If the answer is zero, then there is nothing to talk about.

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: how many US troops are there? If the answer is zero, then there is nothing to talk about.

dunno - this is your complaint
how many?
I was under the impression that the US provided the UN airsupport in the UN's support of "the rebels" against Ghadafi. I have also heard there have been some US provided training being provided thru the UN to "the rebels".
as far as I know, this the UN's fight, with Great Britian running the show, and the US is providing support for the UN.
so, yes - please - tell us how many US troops are on the ground fighting this war?

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: dunno - this is your complaint how many? I was under the impression that the US provided the UN airsupport in the UN's support of "the rebels" against Ghadafi. I have also heard there have been some US provided training being provided thru the UN to "the rebels". as far as I know, this the UN's fight, with Great Britian running the show, and the US is providing support for the UN. so, yes - please - tell us how many US troops are on the ground fighting this war?

You answered the question... US troops are involved and the US is spending money and resources. US pilots are flying over Libya. Or maybe some people would rather call this a "police action"? Or how about "we are supporting NATO"? BS! We are wasting tax dollars and the potential for US lives to be lost. If the UN wants to go fight it out with Ghadafi, then I think the US should have said "no thanks, we have enough to do".

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: You answered the question... US troops are involved and the US is spending money and resources. US pilots are flying over Libya. Or maybe some people would rather call this a "police action"? Or how about "we are supporting NATO"? BS! We are wasting tax dollars and the potential for US lives to be lost. If the UN wants to go fight it out with Ghadafi, then I think the US should have said "no thanks, we have enough to do".

what, is Ghadafi not a Muslim or something? trying to understand the total reversal.
yes, all troops should have left the middle east years ago. in fact, never should have been there. yes. finally getting agreement. thanks for coming over.
we have YET to pay a single penny of the Iraq & Afghan wars, and here we are sticking in another finger.

Oh, I am not "changing sides".... Obama promised to bring home our troops.... he sure is taking his sweet ole time. I guess it isn't easy being President, but if he had any real experience with politics, he would have known that. "Community Organizer" isn't really a job

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: Oh, I am not "changing sides".... Obama promised to bring home our troops.... he sure is taking his sweet ole time. I guess it isn't easy being President, but if he had any real experience with politics, he would have known that. "Community Organizer" isn't really a job

yup. I agree the troops are not coming home quick enough. was this why you voted for Obama? just checking....because as far as I know, the "other" guy was saying he wanted troops there "indefinitely", and that seems to be what is happeneing. shouldnt this make you happy? just trying to see what your actual issue is?

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: ...in 2,000 B.C. Nathan the Neanderthal sold stone axes to both sides and giggled over his stone coins...

source?

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: yup. I agree the troops are not coming home quick enough. was this why you voted for Obama? just checking....because as far as I know, the "other" guy was saying he wanted troops there "indefinitely", and that seems to be what is happeneing. shouldnt this make you happy? just trying to see what your actual issue is?

The "other guy" realized that this is going to take a long time.... unlike Obama, who told everyone that he "would bring the troops home".... What an idiot. And no, only the gullible voted for Obama. I won't say McCain was the best choice, but Obama certainly was the worst. He got in office because of empty promises, a population who believed him.... and sadly, because of the color of his skin.

My issue.... Obama is involved in yet another war, but failed in his promise to bring troops home. Will he be held accountable? Nope.

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: The "other guy" realized that this is going to take a long time.... unlike Obama, who told everyone that he "would bring the troops home".... What an idiot. And no, only the gullible voted for Obama. I won't say McCain was the best choice, but Obama certainly was the worst. He got in office because of empty promises, a population who believed him.... and sadly, because of the color of his skin. My issue.... Obama is involved in yet another war, but failed in his promise to bring troops home. Will he be held accountable? Nope.

so, the actual wars are irrelevant, and your issue is just with a promise made, which you did not vote for, which in the end actually reinforces the plan of the person you did vote for?

lol

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: so, the actual wars are irrelevant, and your issue is just with a promise made, which you did not vote for, which in the end actually reinforces the plan of the person you did vote for? lol

So, his word is worth nothing? He promises, when running for PRESIDENT, mean nothing? If that is the case, why even listen to any candidate, just go pick one at election time.

He is our President now and he is a liar. He is as a warmonger... isn't that what the libs called Bush? Well, Obama still has us in Iraq, Afghanistan and now Libya.

Just because I didn't vote for Obama, doesn't mean I believe in the other candidate. It means I didn't believe in Obama.... well, there wasn't much to go on there, as the guy is "an empty suit".... to use the phrase that seems to fit him best

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: So, his word is worth nothing? He promises, when running for PRESIDENT, mean nothing? If that is the case, why even listen to any candidate, just go pick one at election time. He is our President now and he is a liar. He is as a warmonger... isn't that what the libs called Bush? Well, Obama still has us in Iraq, Afghanistan and now Libya. Just because I didn't vote for Obama, doesn't mean I believe in the other candidate. It means I didn't believe in Obama.... well, there wasn't much to go on there, as the guy is "an empty suit".... to use the phrase that seems to fit him best

troops are leaving Iraq. Osama Bin Laden has been shot, killed & dumped into the sea. troops are leaving Afghanistan.
I agree it is nowhere near fast enough. and, again, Libya is a UN (or NATO?) deal, lead by Great Britian.
you may want to look into the lies which actually led to all this warmongering, which has left this nation broke. not a single penny of Iraq or Afghanistan has been paid for yet. and every idiot who wanted these wars is now refusing to pay for them wars. I 100% agree that these nation draining wars cannot end soon enough. but - it seems they may end all on their own shortly, due to lack of funds.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: troops are leaving Iraq. Osama Bin Laden has been shot, killed & dumped into the sea. troops are leaving Afghanistan. I agree it is nowhere near fast enough. and, again, Libya is a UN (or NATO?) deal, lead by Great Britian. you may want to look into the lies which actually led to all this warmongering, which has left this nation broke. not a single penny of Iraq or Afghanistan has been paid for yet. and every idiot who wanted these wars is now refusing to pay for them wars. I 100% agree that these nation draining wars cannot end soon enough. but - it seems they may end all on their own shortly, due to lack of funds.

Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize.... isn't that a shame.

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize.... isn't that a shame.

I suppose you'd preffer it went to the chinese?

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: I suppose you'd preffer it went to the chinese?

I am sure there is a deserving Chinese person. BUT apparently, the prize is given to those with a potential to bring peace, at least that is how Obama got his. I wonder if he will be required to return it after 2012, since he really did anything but bring peace to the world.

The shock is that 40 YEARS later he is still alive!

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: troops are leaving Iraq. Osama Bin Laden has been shot, killed & dumped into the sea. troops are leaving Afghanistan. I agree it is nowhere near fast enough. and, again, Libya is a UN (or NATO?) deal, lead by Great Britian. you may want to look into the lies which actually led to all this warmongering, which has left this nation broke. not a single penny of Iraq or Afghanistan has been paid for yet. and every idiot who wanted these wars is now refusing to pay for them wars. I 100% agree that these nation draining wars cannot end soon enough. but - it seems they may end all on their own shortly, due to lack of funds.

Wouldn't matter what was done to some people...if he had of stopped both wars and returned all the troops day one of his Presidency there would be an uproar as well, as there would with any strategy. A co-ordinated (by the military) draw-down seems prudent in these cases but like I said no matter what is done it will be wrong amongst the haters. Would have been nice if the draw-down in Afghanistan had started sooner though IMO.

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: I have yet to see a good answer to the most important question of all: what exactly are we supposed to be gaining from this war?

An improvement in the approval numbers for Comrade Obama.

If Bush (Sr) and Bush (Jr) could get big number bumps in approval ratings, why can't the anointed one?


As for the Colonel, Being holed up in a lot in Tripoli, with bombs raining on you daily is hardly "being in power."

[This message has been edited by htexans1 (edited 07-29-2011).]

quote Originally posted by newf: Wouldn't matter what was done to some people...if he had of stopped both wars and returned all the troops day one of his Presidency there would be an uproar as well, as there would with any strategy. A co-ordinated (by the military) draw-down seems prudent in these cases but like I said no matter what is done it will be wrong amongst the haters. Would have been nice if the draw-down in Afghanistan had started sooner though IMO.

And many of these so called haters are on the far left.
They are not happy he has taken the path he did.
Though he does do both wars with one eye on the election.
He recently did go against the military brass on the draw down.
That is my beef, and no hate in the beef.
But the one he started then turn over to NATO will come back to bite him from both sides, if it ain't over by election time.
Even though the press has swept it under the rug, it still drags on.

It was the right wing,the neo cons who fought the British in the war of American independence ,The Christian Families or Christian believe, provide 90% of our fighting men !! liberals & democrats are normally pro coward & anti war.last to the flag,,liberals are normally empty inside, nothing worth ""fightin fer""
Lybia is a 100% boondoggle we should be helping Gaddaffi,,we are on the wrong side..Both sides are wacked.
people hate Col. Gaddaffi,so he got short straw,,France & Brits wanted him gone.The rebels are murderous scum who hate us,,hopefully Gaddaffi forces will kill the most anti west clowns.
we will desert our allies in Afganistan , the taliban/al queda have won,, they wait for the real throat slitting,then gain control ,support aggression against America
The euro trash should have hit Gaddaffi with every assault aircraft they had .War ships shelling Tripoli, 2 regiments of french foreign legion,my old outfit & 2REP,tough legionairs would have made short work of Lybian army ,,maybe a royal marine Commando to add some real head shot FUN.
The Euro trash would not spent the treasure,Men & military up front now they will spend it anyway
..spec op men are training/organize rebels now

quote Originally posted by uhlanstan: It was the right wing,the neo cons who fought the British in the war of American independence ,The Christian Families or Christian believe, provide 90% of our fighting men !! liberals & democrats are normally pro coward & anti war.last to the flag,,liberals are normally empty inside, nothing worth ""fightin fer"" Lybia is a 100% boondoggle we should be helping Gaddaffi,,we are on the wrong side..Both sides are wacked. people hate Col. Gaddaffi,so he got short straw,,France & Brits wanted him gone.The rebels are murderous scum who hate us,,hopefully Gaddaffi forces will kill the most anti west clowns. we will desert our allies in Afganistan , the taliban/al queda have won,, they wait for the real throat slitting,then gain control ,support aggression against America The euro trash should have hit Gaddaffi with every assault aircraft they had .War ships shelling Tripoli, 2 regiments of french foreign legion,my old outfit & 2REP,tough legionairs would have made short work of Lybian army ,,maybe a royal marine Commando to add some real head shot FUN. The Euro trash would not spent the treasure,Men & military up front now they will spend it anyway ..spec op men are training/organize rebels now

How is it you get so many negs? I really believe a lot of people here are sheep that don't wanna here the truth.

quote Originally posted by partfiero: And many of these so called haters are on the far left. They are not happy he has taken the path he did.

No doubt there are haters on both sides.