http://marshallbrain.com/robots-in-2015.htm I have been worried that this would happen ever since I was young, and read about the Ford Dagenham plant in the UK,planning replacing workers with robots. And the clandestine and cynical deception which they used to rob professional people of their jobs under the guise of 'time and motion studies'. They connected electrodes to all the BEST people who worked in the spray shops, recording every movement and motion onto a hard drive, which was then pored over by computer experts etc, and refined to virtually 100% efficiency. Then they unceremoniously dumped all those workers, AND all the future generations who would have learned and perfected that work, onto the dole queue. And so it spread through every professional 'blue collar' job throughout the production spectrum of Industry. And it will get worse and worse. We will be producing workers (children), who simply won't have a job to go to. MILLIONS of people worldwide. And who will provide the cash etc to keep them alive to do nothing productive? The few people in power who started this mass unemployment of semi and professional skilled workers. And guess how that cash etc will be levied on those few mega-rich people? Taxes. And as long as they have ways of getting around the 'Tax Laws' by writing new Laws to enable them to pay virtually NO taxes in relation to their income, the poor will become poorer, and the only jobs that won't be automated will be the ones which are so poorly paid, it won't be viable to replace them with robots. So, these clever and manipulative few 'Uber-Capitalists convert peoples' incomes into vast profits for themselves, destroying any chance people have to enjoy some form of Life, and depriving them of the disposable cash which enables them to BUY the things the robots make and create. The eddy becomes a whirlpool. and then a maelstrom of fiscal disaster. So we end up with a tiny percentage of the population owning the majority of wealth, and that wealth is no longer being spent to maintain jobs, but 'reinvested' to collect even MORE currency from the common pool of 'wealth' of the population. Welcome to 2012. It has almost come full circle So the old adage about the 'Rich' creating employment with their wealth is far from the truth and reality. And soon, there won't be any 'common' wealth left to sustain our economy and Commerce. Jobs for PEOPLE can put that right...not jobs for robots.
I expect there will be harsh comments coming from the Uber-Capitalist section of our PFF community, denigrating this as 'Socialism' at best, and 'communism' at worst. It ISN'T. It is, IMHO, a conservative view about what is causing the collapse of our economic system. And whilst the Uber-Capitalists continue to support it, they TOO are sealing their OWN fate to lose almost everything to the financial vortex which is rampant Capitalism by a tiny minority of our Population.
------------------
"We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give." Winston Churchill
Then there was only one... 11.08.2007 Growing old is harder than growing up. And losing loved ones is even harder
Responsibility: the solution for our World's Dilemmas.. PFF..I am only here once a year!! Yahoo messenger:nickcannspain MSN Messenger-nicholascann@hotmail.com
Ever since the industrial revolution, technology has been replacing workers. I don't care about unskilled labor being replaced by machines. Machines should be used to do repetitive and boring jobs. I do lament the loss of skilled labor. In a perfect world, everyone would have a job that requires either an education or skilled labor.
One of the biggest killer of skilled labor is the assembly line. Prior to Henry Ford, automobile makers had to know how the entire automobile worked from the front to back and top to bottom. It took very skilled craftsmen to build an automobile. Then Henry Ford broke up that process into a series of simple tasks that could be trained to unskilled workers in minutes to hours. The assembly line put a lot of skill craftsmen out of work.
I don't shed a tear for such jobs being replaced by robots. It takes expertise to program these robots and it takes skill to repair them.
There a numerous examples of jobs being replaced by mechanization and for the most part it is for the better. It used to take three garbage men per truck to pick up the garbage. One would drive while two would pick up the cans and toss them in the back of the truck. Today, my garbage is picked up by a truck with a robotic arm on it that picks up 90 gallon cans and dumps them in a couple of seconds. It only takes one driver now and the machine cannot injure its back and become disabled. Does anyone lament the loss of so many jobs in the waste management industry?
Ever since the industrial revolution, technology has been replacing workers. I don't care about unskilled labor being replaced by machines. Machines should be used to do repetitive and boring jobs. I do lament the loss of skilled labor. In a perfect world, everyone would have a job that requires either an education or skilled labor.
One of the biggest killer of skilled labor is the assembly line. Prior to Henry Ford, automobile makers had to know how the entire automobile worked from the front to back and top to bottom. It took very skilled craftsmen to build an automobile. Then Henry Ford broke up that process into a series of simple tasks that could be trained to unskilled workers in minutes to hours. The assembly line put a lot of skill craftsmen out of work.
I don't shed a tear for such jobs being replaced by robots. It takes expertise to program these robots and it takes skill to repair them.
There a numerous examples of jobs being replaced by mechanization and for the most part it is for the better. It used to take three garbage men per truck to pick up the garbage. One would drive while two would pick up the cans and toss them in the back of the truck. Today, my garbage is picked up by a truck with a robotic arm on it that picks up 90 gallon cans and dumps them in a couple of seconds. It only takes one driver now and the machine cannot injure its back and become disabled. Does anyone lament the loss of so many jobs in the waste management industry?
Ya but you lament the loss of technology jobs to third world counties. So how is that any different?
People will no longer be needed eventually in any job, tell me I am wrong and I will tell you that you are lying. It will happen eventually. It already has in technology related jobs, when I was working a Digital they had techs that repaired computers. Now they are done by the computers themselves.
Get over it. Eventually we will all be outsourced or replaced by a machine.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 08-01-2011).]
When my workplace was computerized, they told us that it would eliminate the volume of paper work. That promise was very slow to come about. Even now it is not entirely the case. The work force fell from about 250 down to 150 though.
These were all skilled white collar workers.
However, when Chargex came out in the 70's it was the promise to eliminate paperwork for the store owner. Now look at all the paper still coming to us over the counter, and, if you are in the retail trade you know the amount of paper still in use.
With assembly jobs it requires maintenance techs and quality assurance techs, and systems guys more than floor grunts, but, the jobs are more highly skilled, better paying and not as repetitive, but, if you work in an office on data entry, tell me about how boring and repetitive it can get.
The big issue in the farm belt is not being able to get citizens to work seasonal harvesting jobs. Our country imports laborers from the Caribbean every year. They're provided, usually, an efficiency cabin to live in, and get paid on top. Meanwhile the white trash lay about on their sofa's watching Oprah and getting welfare.
There is a whole subculture of folks who just don't have the brain power for high tech jobs, and don't have the initiative to work hard. If you look at the society here in Canada, there is a big divide between the technical population and the rest. There is a whole stratum of folks who at one time would have been the grunts on simple assembly jobs or work gangs, who now live off the rest of us.
Sad, but I don't think you can really blame technological advancement. Christ said it 2 millennium ago. He said "the poor you always have with you". So it is today. There are some folks who just can't make it in life. Call it sickness, call it laziness, call it stupidity, call it misfortune, call it what you like. It is just the poor subclass and it will always be so.
Arn
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11:25 AM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
Jobs may have been replaced by robots but new jobs were also created. The robots need to be programed for each new car or different style car they paint. One program does not fit all. The robots also need to be maintained and serviced. These are higher tech jobs that pay more money and that are cleaner, safer and healthier than the actual painting jobs were.
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12:29 PM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
Jobs may have been replaced by robots but new jobs were also created. The robots need to be programed for each new car or different style car they paint. One program does not fit all. The robots also need to be maintained and serviced. These are higher tech jobs that pay more money and that are cleaner, safer and healthier than the actual painting jobs were.
And even those will be replaced by robots eventually. Think again, we are all replaceable by robots, even YOU. I don’t care how smart you think you are, your job can be and will be done by a robot, or computer, or sent overseas.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
And even those will be replaced by robots eventually. Think again, we are all replaceable by robots, even YOU. I don’t care how smart you think you are, your job can be and will be done by a robot, or computer, or sent overseas.
Steve
Very true, Steve. That's why I've always said the first thing we should automate, outsource, or send offshore is MANAGEMENT.
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02:29 PM
Doug85GT Member
Posts: 9704 From: Sacramento CA USA Registered: May 2003
Ya but you lament the loss of technology jobs to third world counties. So how is that any different?
People will no longer be needed eventually in any job, tell me I am wrong and I will tell you that you are lying. It will happen eventually. It already has in technology related jobs, when I was working a Digital they had techs that repaired computers. Now they are done by the computers themselves.
Get over it. Eventually we will all be outsourced or replaced by a machine.
Steve
I wish my job could be replaced by a robot or outsourced. Unfortunately, robots and computers are only as good as they are programmed. It takes a high degree of engineering and programming to do the most simple tasks. Doing much more complex jobs is currently impossible and will likely be out of the reach of machines for at least another 50 years.
As far as outsourcing, I am in a unique position in that my job cannot be outsourced due to the nature of the data that I work with. It is the kind of data that if some of it gets compromised then people get fired. We even treat our own network as a hostile environment and require encryption between work stations. Such data will never be trusted outside of the country.
I only lament outsourcing of technology jobs because our school system is so inadequate in providing the education that is required for such jobs. A lot of companies that have outsourced high skilled jobs have changed their minds and came back home. The language and cultural barrier is a very real one. It is difficult enough to communicate with someone across town through emails, phone calls and net meetings. It is much harder to accurately communicate with people in a completely different country.
The following is humorous but is all too often accurate:
Unfortunately (or not ) robots don't buy groceries, contribute to Pension funds, pay taxes, etcetcetc...don't use public transport, frequent bars and restaurants and cinemas...don't wear clothes and shoes and smoke or drink...all ways that income is fed back into the fiscal system that keeps our countries alive and vibrant. Why has TV been allowed to appear in our homes unbridled? Because it is GOOD for us? No, I think not. Because it is a relatively inexpensive way to keep the population amused, and while away the increasingly vast amount of leisure time the loss of our jobs has created. WHy is Sport so enthusiastically promoted? So will will take part ourselves, and become healthy and fit? NO. Once again, it is a time-filler, which employs relatively few people to make it function. One person for every 10,000 viewers? Just a guess...but near enough, I bet. I always remember a slogan daubed on a prominent wall in London some 40 years ago: 'Nicholas Parsons is the Neo-opiate of the People'. It named him, because he was one of the first 'Comperes' of UK TV to have more than one Show on TV at the same time. It said underneath: ' The drug which is known as TV, is the opiate that subdues and tranquilises the millions who just don't see what is happening. Drugged sheep to the slaughter'. I believe it to be true
There a numerous examples of jobs being replaced by mechanization and for the most part it is for the better. It used to take three garbage men per truck to pick up the garbage. One would drive while two would pick up the cans and toss them in the back of the truck. Today, my garbage is picked up by a truck with a robotic arm on it that picks up 90 gallon cans and dumps them in a couple of seconds. It only takes one driver now and the machine cannot injure its back and become disabled. Does anyone lament the loss of so many jobs in the waste management industry?
Possibly the workers who did that job, and financed themselves and their families by way of it. The selfsame people who would LOVE to have a job, but don't, and have to sit at home all day, every day, living on a pittance. And be labelled idle, lazy, spongers...etc etc etc. You are saying therefore, that the convenience of a machine doing 3 peoples' work benefits Society? How?? And the comment about 'the robots need maintenance etc by skilled workers...' IT WOULD NOT BE USED if it didn't save considerable amounts of the salaries paid to the people who did the work before the robot took over. And whom has the benefit of those savings anyway? Not the Public for sure. And the loss of that spendable salary will be felt in the commercial outlets in the area, because, as I already pointed out, their salaries will be syphoned off, and bypass the whole locality, to be put to use in ways that will STILL not benefit Society.
I don't know if anybody actually read the article I linked to, but it does sum up pretty accurately the way I believe things are heading...and VERY quickly, IMHO. I also believe that 'money' will be phased out completely within 25 years. The populace will be 'paid' with tokens and 'benefits' to pastimes and food etc. Money will become obsolete, in general Public life. It will only be used for paying for imported goods between countries. And that wouldn't last long, with a single administration running the World
Unfortunately (or not ) robots don't buy groceries, contribute to Pension funds, pay taxes, etcetcetc...don't use public transport, frequent bars and restaurants and cinemas...don't wear clothes and shoes and smoke or drink...all ways that income is fed back into the fiscal system that keeps our countries alive and vibrant.
The same thing has been said about every other technological advancement. "Cars will destroy the Horse industry"
quote
Why has TV been allowed to appear in our homes unbridled? Because it is GOOD for us? No, I think not. Because it is a relatively inexpensive way to keep the population amused, and while away the increasingly vast amount of leisure time the loss of our jobs has created. WHy is Sport so enthusiastically promoted? So will will take part ourselves, and become healthy and fit? NO. Once again, it is a time-filler, which employs relatively few people to make it function. One person for every 10,000 viewers? Just a guess...but near enough, I bet. I always remember a slogan daubed on a prominent wall in London some 40 years ago: 'Nicholas Parsons is the Neo-opiate of the People'. It named him, because he was one of the first 'Comperes' of UK TV to have more than one Show on TV at the same time. It said underneath: ' The drug which is known as TV, is the opiate that subdues and tranquilises the millions who just don't see what is happening. Drugged sheep to the slaughter'. I believe it to be true
Allowed? Are you saying you want more Government control over things? How easy do you guys have it over there?
Brad
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04:29 PM
naskie18 Member
Posts: 6258 From: Commerce Twp, MI, USA Registered: Jun 2002
Just about to say the SAME thing LOL. Still, glad it did. Nothing like running over horse-apples all the time on the road, making it fly up and make your car all green/brown around the wheel wells. ewww
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04:54 PM
Doug85GT Member
Posts: 9704 From: Sacramento CA USA Registered: May 2003
Making jobs obsolete frees up people to do more productive jobs that increase the overall wealth of society. Using the horse and car example that was brought up, we are much better off with all of the jobs that maintained horses gone. Did all of those people who used shoe horses, care for them, breed and raise them, etc. just go home and starve to death? They found new jobs that the society needed.
What about all of the telephone operators? Most of them were replaced by machines thanks to automatic call switching. There were a lot of elevator operators put out of a job thanks to new elevator technology. Thousands of mail sorters were put out of a job by machine sorting.
Every time a machine replaces a person doing a low level repetitive job, it is better for society as a whole.
In the mid 80's i toured a manufacturing plant that made magnets for motors.
In one section it had 3 identical lines, all separated out into 'stations' ( pretty standard thing, even back then ). If you looked closely it was "robot, person, robot, person" on one line, and "person, robot, person, robot" on the next. The 'manned' stations already had the mounts in the floor for the robot for when they left/fired/retired/etc.
The also had replaced all the forklift drivers with magnetic lines in the floor and robot lift trucks, and the 'stack' ( storage ) had been computerized a while ago.
Making jobs obsolete frees up people to do more productive jobs that increase the overall wealth of society. Every time a machine replaces a person doing a low level repetitive job, it is better for society as a whole.
Doug...for heaven's sake...HOW??????? It is easy to live in Utopia in one's mind, but the cold, hard fact is...A JOB LOST IS DETRIMENTAL to Society...HOW can it be any other way??? You are saying that losing a low-level repetitive job is BETTER for Society as a whole...because there are no jobs for those workers, let alone BETTER jobs? About the only 'good' thing about it, is that it provides for those who DO still have a job, something to moan about...how people sit around and do NOTHING, and have to be paid for by those who DO have a job.... Please, can you predict WHERE, and WHEN, all these 'new jobs ' will be arriving in the unemployment offices?? What is coming down the line which will require MILLIONS of unemployed people to fill them? We no longer have scope for NEW and ESSENTIAL products any more, and that is proved by the continual 'revamping' of 'old' stuff to make it marketable. We are just spending money on 'new and improved...', when in reality it ISN'T. Come on, back up your words, and show us just ONE thing which will reduce the unemployment queues by half...even a quarter...even one EIGHTH , and I don't mean 'fake' jobs to massage Government employment figures. REAL jobs, for REAL people, with REAL salaries that are WORTH something.
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06:46 PM
cliffw Member
Posts: 36751 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by fierofetish: I have been worried that this would happen ever since I was young, and read about the Ford Dagenham plant in the UK,planning replacing workers with robots.
I think you are wrong, and you prove that you are wrong every time you sell a gate you make yourself. You Capitalist you.
Brad
Brad, Brad...BRAD!!! I am MAKING something...something tangilble, functional and useful, from raw materials!! THAT isn't Capitalism...that is industry PRODUCTIVITY!!!!
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06:51 PM
PFF
System Bot
cliffw Member
Posts: 36751 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by fierofetish: Brad, Brad...BRAD!!! I am MAKING something...something tangilble, functional and useful, from raw materials!! THAT isn't Capitalism...that is industry PRODUCTIVITY!!!!
Making something is industrious. Selling it is capitalism.
If there is anything in this thread worth talking about its Doug85gt's sig..
Now thats funny.
Agreed. I love it.
Gotta agree with Nick on this one. But I'll take it a step farther, and it won't get me any + ratings. This didn't start with the invention of robots. IMO, it started with the need for families to have 2 incomes - that's right - women going out of the home and into the workforce. I'm not saying it's the women's fault, nor the employers who hired them. It's the fault of the liberal one-worlders we elected and who became judges, lawyers and university professors, who started to put civilization onto the slippery slope that has become the welfare state. It WILL eventually become top-heavy and tip over like an iceberg, and those in power will cry "CRISIS!!!" and take over EVERYTHING in the name of that crisis. And then they will be the only ones who benefit. Period.
Until the tipping point is reached, and nearly no one has a job. We are fast approaching that point.
And no, not everyone can 'just get a higher paying tech job'.
Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that changing careers is easy. I have changed careers three times so far and it would not surprise me if I have to change careers a couple more times in my life.
How long can people fight technology? Technology is used everywhere and it is so ingrained in our society that people hardly notice it anymore. Anyone notice how newer stores have very wide isles? It is so that fork lifts and powered pallet jacks can fit down the isles to make restocking easier. Did anyone complain about all the stockers that were put out of work? How about those air nailers that are used in construction. Those are much faster than using a hammer. So less roofers today can put up a new roof faster than a crew 40 years ago.
Just about anywhere you look you will be able to find where technology has been applied to make things more efficient. It can also be argued that same technology put someone out of a job.
Originally posted by Doug85GT: Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that changing careers is easy. I have changed careers three times so far and it would not surprise me if I have to change careers a couple more times in my life.
]
It has nothing to do with careers, you know why?
Because there won’t be any. All will be taken over by machines.
Now find a job.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 08-02-2011).]
Originally posted by Doug85GT: Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that changing careers is easy. I have changed careers three times so far and it would not surprise me if I have to change careers a couple more times in my life.
How long can people fight technology? Technology is used everywhere and it is so ingrained in our society that people hardly notice it anymore. Anyone notice how newer stores have very wide isles? It is so that fork lifts and powered pallet jacks can fit down the isles to make restocking easier. Did anyone complain about all the stockers that were put out of work? How about those air nailers that are used in construction. Those are much faster than using a hammer. So less roofers today can put up a new roof faster than a crew 40 years ago.
Just about anywhere you look you will be able to find where technology has been applied to make things more efficient. It can also be argued that same technology put someone out of a job.
Electricity ceases to exist.( modern tech warfare ) Gas runs out. BOTH these scenarios are inevitable. I can just picture it now, as the 95 year old man says to the whizz-kid supertech with lilywhite and soft-as-petals hands...'now, this thing is what you hold in your hand. That is the handle, and that heavy lump of metal on the end is what you hit with. Now, this thin bit of pointy metal is called a 'nail'. You hold it between the first finger and thumb with your OTHER hand, and you hit it with the lumpy metal thing..."&%$)·!! Oh yes, it take s a while to get used to it, and your fingers will eventually get used to being hit...now stop crying, and try again.. Now Mr.Banker..you pick up the square bit of clay that has been cooked till it is hard. You smear that grey mixture all over the bottom and ends, and you lay it next to the first one, and so on...oh...your back hurts?? Sorry. You want to eat, you will have to get used to that. And I notice you have stopped sneerng at me when I come into your Bank with my calloused hands...sorry?? No Bank any more??? Oh dear...how sad!" I can't wait for that day It MIGHT just happen in my lifetime...and WON'T that be fun So you see, my silly story could well come true...and then the REAL workers, with REAL skills will reign supreme...ain't payback a bit...ch??? Can't happen? Remember the Millenium bug, when they commissioned as many old and early computer programmers that were available, and paid them a LOT of money to do what they couldn't Just imagine if EVERY day was 'millenium bug' day. My dad used to say 'No matter what work you do, always have a manual skill you can turn to,,,you WILL need it.' So kids...put down those electronic gadgets, get out there, and BE PREPARED!! AND I WILL RPEAT AGAIN, AS YOU STILL DON'T GET IT All those jobs lost to machines also means the salary that pays for so much has gone too...all the taxes, the permits and licences they bought no longer funded. All the amenities that Society survives on will no longer be available because they will not be funded any more. And those who DO still have a salary will have to pay ALL of it...and continue to point the finger and moan 'I have to pay for those lazy B++++ards to sit on the asses and do NOTHING..it AIN'T fair!!!! It AIN'T FAIR for the genuine unemployed, THAT is for sure!! And they are a majority over the lazy asses...for NOW, anyway, or so I believe.
[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 08-02-2011).]
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08:00 AM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
Electricity ceases to exist.( modern tech warfare ) Gas runs out. BOTH these scenarios are inevitable. I can just picture it now, as the 95 year old man says to the whizz-kid supertech with lilywhite and soft-as-petals hands...'now, this thing is what you hold in your hand. That is the handle, and that heavy lump of metal on the end is what you hit with. Now, this thin bit of pointy metal is called a 'nail'. You hold it between the first finger and thumb with your OTHER hand, and you hit it with the lumpy metal thing..."&%$)·!! Oh yes, it take s a while to get used to it, and your fingers will eventually get used to being hit...now stop crying, and try again.. Now Mr.Banker..you pick up the square bit of clay that has been cooked till it is hard. You smear that grey mixture all over the bottom and ends, and you lay it next to the first one, and so on...oh...your back hurts?? Sorry. You want to eat, you will have to get used to that. And I notice you have stopped sneerng at me when I come into your Bank with my calloused hands...sorry?? No Bank any more??? Oh dear...how sad!" I can't wait for that day It MIGHT just happen in my lifetime...and WON'T that be fun So you see, my silly story could well come true...and then the REAL workers, with REAL skills will reign supreme...ain't payback a bit...ch??? Can't happen? Remember the Millenium bug, when they commissioned as many old and early computer programmers that were available, and paid them a LOT of money to do what they couldn't Just imagine if EVERY day was 'millenium bug' day. My dad used to say 'No matter what work you do, always have a manual skill you can turn to,,,you WILL need it.' So kids...put down those electronic gadgets, get out there, and BE PREPARED!! AND I WILL RPEAT AGAIN, AS YOU STILL DON'T GET IT All those jobs lost to machines also means the salary that pays for so much has gone too...all the taxes, the permits and licences they bought no longer funded. All the amenities that Society survives on will no longer be available because they will not be funded any more. And those who DO still have a salary will have to pay ALL of it...and continue to point the finger and moan 'I have to pay for those lazy B++++ards to sit on the asses and do NOTHING..it AIN'T fair!!!! It AIN'T FAIR for the genuine unemployed, THAT is for sure!! And they are a majority over the lazy asses...for NOW, anyway, or so I believe.
That’s what I have been trying to say for years. But then the college boys think they are impervious to this happening to them.
Think again, it is happening now and has been for decades.
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:
It has nothing to do with careers, you know why?
Because there won’t be any. All will be taken over by machines.
Now find a job.
Steve
Anyone who says it will not happen to you already look like those people In the video ?
Steve ------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 08-02-2011).]
Sorry, I went somewhere for 12 hours or so in 110+ degree heat all night for money.
My point was, one industry overtakes another, and the original suffers, but people whom are willing to move alone and join the new industry can and still work. The new industry gets bigger, and better until the new thing comes along and the process starts over again. It's happened since the beginning of time, and will happen until the end. It's called progress.
Nick, what you do when you build metal stuff for people is the model of Capitalism, no matter what you call it. Your allowed to not like that, but face facts you old codger.
And the skilled laborer already control the world, they always have. Without the bricklayer, or the carpenter we wouldn't have the things we have today. Being a banker is a skill just as much as a carpenter however. It's also labor intensive. Not everyone has to lose their fingernails to work hard.
Brad
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09:05 AM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
Sorry, I went somewhere for 12 hours or so in 110+ degree heat all night for money.
My point was, one industry overtakes another, and the original suffers, but people whom are willing to move alone and join the new industry can and still work. The new industry gets bigger, and better until the new thing comes along and the process starts over again. It's happened since the beginning of time, and will happen until the end. It's called progress.
Nick, what you do when you build metal stuff for people is the model of Capitalism, no matter what you call it. Your allowed to not like that, but face facts you old codger.
And the skilled laborer already control the world, they always have. Without the bricklayer, or the carpenter we wouldn't have the things we have today. Being a banker is a skill just as much as a carpenter however. It's also labor intensive. Not everyone has to lose their fingernails to work hard.
Brad
Read my post Brad.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
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09:24 AM
naskie18 Member
Posts: 6258 From: Commerce Twp, MI, USA Registered: Jun 2002
Originally posted by 84fiero123: Read my post Brad.
Read your post? You mean that video you linked to? Yeah, Pixar's coming to do us all in.
As Brad mentioned, even the creation of new technologies to replace old jobs creates new jobs. Yes, there will be people who have skills that are no longer useful, and they'll have to either develop new skills, get a new job using different existing skills, or sit around and collect welfare.
Now get back to work, millions are depending on you. Or maybe they're just depending on raised debt ceilings, who knows.....
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11:11 AM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Read your post? You mean that video you linked to? Yeah, Pixar's coming to do us all in.
As Brad mentioned, even the creation of new technologies to replace old jobs creates new jobs. Yes, there will be people who have skills that are no longer useful, and they'll have to either develop new skills, get a new job using different existing skills, or sit around and collect welfare.
Now get back to work, millions are depending on you. Or maybe they're just depending on raised debt ceilings, who knows.....
And what happens when the computers no longer need the button pusher? Or the robots are repaired and built by other robots?
You have an education, use it instead of your degree. It is happening, every time new tech is created jobs are lost. They are not replaced. You are the prime example of people I talked about. They are to educated and think that they can not be replaced.
All you have to do is stick around another few years and you will see and understand that we are a dieing breed. The human race is no longer needed. Computers repair themselves. They design themselves. They are built by robots. Who build themselves. And repair other robots.
You think there will always be a job for you?
Think again. And as Nick said.
Robots and computers don’t pay taxes. Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 08-02-2011).]
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11:23 AM
naskie18 Member
Posts: 6258 From: Commerce Twp, MI, USA Registered: Jun 2002
Originally posted by 84fiero123: And what happens when the computers no longer need the button pusher? Or the robots are repaired and built by other robots?
You have an education, use it instead of your degree. It is happening, every time new tech is created jobs are lost. They are not replaced. You are the prime example of people I talked about. They are to educated and think that they can not be replaced.
All you have to do is stick around another few years and you will see and understand that we are a dieing breed. The human race is no longer needed. Computers repair themselves. They design themselves. They are built by robots. Who build themselves. And repair other robots.
Do me a favor, aside from I Robot, show me a few examples of anything going from a concept to reality without significant human involvement.
I understand the fear, and I'm sure its the same thing that's been a concern since people started putting robots on the assembly line for any product. But the reality is, each technological advance obsoletes some jobs, but it also creates new jobs. Robots have been taking our jobs for 50 or 60 years depending when you start counting, and yet, here we are.
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123: You think there will always be a job for you?
Think again.
Yes, I do. It may not be what I'm doing now, may not be anything I even want to do...but I'm confident I'll always find something unless I come across a large enough pile of money that I don't need to work. Maybe my skills will become obsolete because I Robot becomes a reality instead of a movie, or Walle becomes a reality instead of propaganda, and then I'll have to find something else to do....maybe I'll be back in the kitchen at the country club I used to work at...but there will be jobs.
But let's forget that particular topic, neither of us is going to change the other's mind without significant evidence that we both appear to be lacking. I think Pyrthian asked a much more interesting question, and something that could at least lead to a much more productive discussion: How do we stop the robots from making us all unemployed?
[EDIT] Screwed up a tag. If only there had been a robot to correct that for me.
[This message has been edited by naskie18 (edited 08-02-2011).]
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02:37 PM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto Mata o hima de, Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto Himitsu wo shiri tai,
You're wondering who I am, (Secret secret, I've got a secret) Machine or mannequin, (Secret secret, I've got a secret) With parts made in Japan, (Secret secret, I've got a secret) I am the modern man,
I've got a secret I've been hiding under my skin, My heart is human, my blood is boiling, my brain IBM, So if you see me acting strangely, don't be surprised, I'm just a man who needed someone and somewhere to hide, To keep me alive, just keep me alive, Somewhere to hide to keep me alive,
I'm not a robot without emotions, I'm not what you see, I've come to help you with your problems so we can be free, I'm not a hero, I'm not a savior, forget what you know, I'm just a man who's circumstances went beyond his control, Beyond my control, We all need control, I need control, We all need control, I am the modern man, (Secret secret, I've got a secret) Who hides behind a mask, (Secret secret, I've got a secret) So no one else can see, (Secret secret, I've got a secret) My true identity,
Domo arigato, Mr, Roboto, Domo, Domo, Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto, Domo, Domo, Domo Arigato, Mr. Roboto, Domo Arigato, Mr. Roboto, Domo Arigato, Mr. Roboto, Domo Arigato, Mr. Roboto, (Thank you very much oh Mr. Roboto For doing the jobs that nobody wants to) Domo Arigato, Mr. Roboto, (And thank you very much oh Mr. Roboto, For helping me escape just when I needed to) Domo Arigato, Mr. Roboto, (Thank you thank you thank you) Domo Arigato, Mr. Roboto, (I wanna thank you) Domo Arigato, Mr. Roboto, (Please thank you)
The problem's plain to see, Too much technology, Machines to save our lives, Machines de-humanize,
The time has come at last, (Secret secret, I've got a secret) To throw away this mask, (Secret secret, I've got a secret) Now everyone can see, (Secret secret, I've got a secret) My true identity,
Originally posted by naskie18: As Brad mentioned, even the creation of new technologies to replace old jobs creates new jobs. Yes, there will be people who have skills that are no longer useful, and they'll have to either develop new skills, get a new job using different existing skills, or sit around and collect welfare.
Asdid from the idea of 'just go get new skills' ( which is easier than said for a lot of people ) the long term problem is that eventually the number of jobs that one can move to will be nil, or be in 'low pay' service industries where you barely make ends meet.
Sure there will always be some decent jobs left, but most wont be. Then who is going to buy all this fancy stuff?
11.08.2007
About the only 'good' thing about it, is that it provides for those who DO still have a job, something to moan about...how people sit around and do NOTHING, and have to be paid for by those who DO have a job....
PRODUCTIVITY!!!!
