When spring comes around I have a hot little hatchback to drive around in, a wicked little hardtail mountain bike to tear around the trails on and a nice carbon fiber road bike to go on those nice rides when trails are wet or I wan't a nice calming ride. All my hobbies last well into fall but come winter time... I sit around and B--CH about all the free time I have with nothing to do. So it got me thinking, what can I do in the winter? No mountains so skiing and snowboarding is out but, I am in the mid west close to all the big snowmobiling areas. So a snowmobile... why not? Have a truck, have space to work, all I need is a trailer which can be had for $500.
So I'm looking at $3,000 on the high end but would preferably wan't something that requires engine work. Something to fix in the summer and ride come winter.
Looking at Yamaha's mostly as the ATV's and Dirt bikes I've rode have never given me any issues. Any thoughts on a SRX 600/700 (or SXR), Yamaha Phazer, or go above budget and wait for an RX1.
New to snowmobiles but have prior experience on ATV's and Dirtbikes... Looking for something big enough that I'm not going to get bored off. Thoughts or other suggestions?

[This message has been edited by Fiero_Fan_88 (edited 11-25-2012).]

Just remember any of them will go over 100 MPH and it ain’t a car or 4 wheeler, or bike. We have at least one or more fatality every year, they don’t stop as fast as they accelerate and don’t go where you point them all the time.

Steve

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

See one at the dragstrip in the summer. They put wheels on the front, aim it, and then take off. Did 12's in the quarter mile. Them things are really fast. Probably find it hard to believe, but they did not need to do a burn out. No wheel spin.

I have seen the one in the far lane run before. 8.01 at 170!

quote Originally posted by Fiero_Fan_88:

Hot!

You thought they were good on asphalt? You should see em on sand! Anywho, I just sent a few PM's to people here who work on snowmobiles via facebook.

Don't ya know the time to buy a snowmobile is in the spring?
Spend more of your money on getting good gear. With the riding you've done, you should know a good sounding engine. http://omaha.craigslist.org/rvs/3432381901.html
Is there any in the lemon lot?
http://mankato.craigslist.org/mcy/3387160236.html

[This message has been edited by Gokart Mozart (edited 11-25-2012).]

While I am by no means an expert on the subject I will offer this: Get used to fixing them, they break down, it's just what they do. Being a Fiero owner this should be nothing new to you. Have fun, I love the things just never have the time in the winter to ride so I haven't owned one in years.

Personally, I love Yamaha, for their attention to detail. But I have had good luck with Ski-doo also. My experience is with '97-98 models. Ski-doo 583 is a good engine. I have had experience with Yamaha 500 also. No problems on either of the engines. You have to keep an eye on the track (wheel bearings) and jackshaft bearings.

For sure if you like riding bikes get on a sled. As far as controling them alot if ti is about momentum, especially in powder because the ground surface is loose snow, once you are used to that you should be good to go if you've ridden dirt bike this should be easier.
What I would recommend first is renting a sled. Lots of places rent them to tourists who usually come in from out of town. As said too the best deals on buying one is when spring comes around.

I'm into the older ones. Much more affordable. Currently a 91 Phazer. Most of who I ride with rides what new sledders would call antiques.

One thing I have noticed about the newer sleds is the narrower tracks on them. They are made more for the trails than the old sleds. Fresh powder bogs them down more than the older sleds. I worked at a marina when I was a kid putting them together in,,,,,,’69 I think. We had a ball testing them after we put them together on the frozen lake behind the marina.

I like the older wide track sleds myself as when we rode it was on our property that wasn’t groomed. I may be wrong anyone?

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

I don't think the track width has changed much (15" ??).

Some machines at the time could have different track widths, but they were more specialized.

Track length is another matter... you can have a standard track, or a long track. Long track is for deeper snow, or heavier sleds.

Don't forget, snowmobiles are heavier than in the past.

I grew up riding Scorpions and a "Sno-Pony".... single cylinder models, but they were fun.

For deep snow the old old wide tracks stayed on top. We're talking early 70s and earlier.

These days for deep snow you just want deeper lugs on the track and enough power to turn it. Mountain sleds usually have a longer track.
For a while when all the liquid cooled sleds came out they were getting heavy. Really new ones are light again.

For deep powder you'll pretty much need to wear waterproof gear .


/\/\/\
I dont get this deep.

I usually ride woods trails and open hayfields and jumpoff banks and drifts. Luckily where I grew up we can do this on a family farm and neighboring farm's private land, and backroads, hunting trails and logging roads, and ponds/lakes/rivers.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 11-26-2012).]

I married an Alaskan, so I have to call them snow machines instead of snow mobiles. I insist that snow machines are what make snow.
Her family is really big on Polaris RMKs.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: For deep snow the old old wide tracks stayed on top. We're talking early 70s and earlier. These days for deep snow you just want deeper lugs on the track and enough power to turn it. Mountain sleds usually have a longer track. For a while when all the liquid cooled sleds came out they were getting heavy. Really new ones are light again. For deep powder you'll pretty much need to wear waterproof gear . /\/\/\ I dont get this deep. I usually ride woods trails and open hayfields and jumpoff banks and drifts. Luckily where I grew up we can do this on a family farm and neighboring farm's private land, and backroads, hunting trails and logging roads, and ponds/lakes/rivers.

Watch the last part of that video; see all those tracks that were trying to go up the hill? At 4:30 None of them made it to the top of the hill.
oops my mistake the nuts were jumping over the top
Steve


------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 11-26-2012).]

Got out today and got on some snowmobiles. Things I have figured out... Nothing longer than a 144in. track length. Nothing bigger than an 800. Something light, picked some up in the store and getting 500lbs+ stuck must suck big time as its bad enough to lift it on a hard floor. My coordination is terrible and I expect to wreck within the first hour so I need to lower my price so I'm not in too much for a broken sled.
Any opinions?
Edit: Dead links

[This message has been edited by Fiero_Fan_88 (edited 12-29-2012).]

Get one with a Sachs 303 or better yet a 606! I think they're in Arctic Cats... Rotary Power!!!!!

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86 Fiero GTX project now tearing up the street, My build thread! 3800sc, interior, wheels, suspension and more! https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/089483.html

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Watch the last part of that video; see all those tracks that were trying to go up the hill? At 4:30 None of them made it to the top of the hill. oops my mistake the nuts were jumping over the top Steve

...as opposed to these nuts:

warning, NSFW





...plus others...

quote Originally posted by Fiero_Fan_88: Got out today and got on some snowmobiles. Things I have figured out... Nothing longer than a 144in. track length. Nothing bigger than an 800. Something light, picked some up in the store and getting 500lbs+ stuck must suck big time as its bad enough to lift it on a hard floor. My coordination is terrible and I expect to wreck within the first hour so I need to lower my price so I'm not in too much for a broken sled. Any opinions? http://omaha.craigslist.org/rvs/3435297369.html http://www.rpmpowersportsom...&model=Exciter&id=44 http://rockford.craigslist.org/rvs/3441205227.html http://minneapolis.craigsli.../sgd/3435426937.html

Look for one with reverse and electric start. Nice to have, especially reverse!

I bought an older Arctic Cat a couple years ago.
Low miles & for cheap. It had been stored in a barn & not been run for a few years. A few hours of clean-up & some fresh fuel it started right up. Runs great but being an older model it doesn’t have the squishy suspension of the newer ones. Still, in a straight line it holds its own! I’ve seen 110mph on the speedo while crossing a lake.
They’re fun but like all the other motorized toy’s out there, they can be money pits!

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86 GT
87 coupe restoration project.

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: Look for one with reverse and electric start. Nice to have, especially reverse!

Reverse is only of use on hard packed snow - anything else, and you will bury the back of the ski tips really quick when they dig in (and then it is alot fun to get out - this I know). Electric start only adds weight and a battery to worry about - most of the newer sleds with fuel injection will start right away if maintained.

Not even sure if you can buy a sled nowdays with reverse.

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: Look for one with reverse and electric start. Nice to have, especially reverse!

Yes reverse is a necessity with a sled or even a 4 wheeler, if you get stuck with a sled you MAY be able to get yourself out if you have reverse. Without it you are at you own muscle power to try and get yourself out.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

For something light and quick look for an early 90's Yamaha Phazer II about the lightest sled out there with good performance and still get you through the snow. For alittle more get up and go you might look at a Exciter II of the same vintage. More weight due to the liquid cooling but about twice the hp. Should be cheap 1500 for one in decent shape.

quote Originally posted by Mickey_Moose: Reverse is only of use on hard packed snow - anything else, and you will bury the back of the ski tips really quick when they dig in (and then it is alot fun to get out - this I know). Electric start only adds weight and a battery to worry about - most of the newer sleds with fuel injection will start right away if maintained. Not even sure if you can buy a sled nowdays with reverse.

HUH? reverse is very popular, as is electric start. These options are great, if you want to save your back. As for the weight difference.... minor and there are many times when you will use reverse. BTW, we are not talking about new sleds, but ones with carbs and they can flood. So, cranking and cranking with a rope gets old quick

I dont have either - electric start or reverse. Been a few occasions in which I've wanted them. Mostly reverse. Would really help during the loading & unloading process!
Below is my yearly routine to ensure easy starts. Clean the whole fuel system & sync the carbs!

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86 GT
87 coupe restoration project.

I just put stabil and fog the engine in the spring. Never had to sync the carbs, but I only have twin cylinders. Maybe one day, but they run good, so why bother.

quote Originally posted by Fiero STS: For something light and quick look for an early 90's Yamaha Phazer II about the lightest sled out there with good performance and still get you through the snow. For alittle more get up and go you might look at a Exciter II of the same vintage. More weight due to the liquid cooling but about twice the hp. Should be cheap 1500 for one in decent shape.

Thats what I am running, a Phazer II

I also had an Exciter II, the liquid added a ton of weight. I sold it just for that reason.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: In my experience its usually not the engine that needs much work. If you have good compression. Sometimes a carbs need cleaning. (Always run stabil or equivilent. Seafoam, Startron etc) Maintinence on the bogey wheels, (new bearing for example, or entire wheel). The clutch (cleaning / dry lube). Keep good skags (aka runners) on the skis, and slides (aka hifax) on the track runners. Getting stuck is about using the sleds own power to get out. LIfting the back end only to turn it around to the way you want it to go, digging a path in front of it to get going. When the front of teh belly under teh engine is pushing snow she wont want to get going. Its great if you have a buddy nearby to pull on the front of a ski to get started moving while you gas it. Then as said, all about momentum. If shes moving and its reeeel deep dont stop Old frozen tracks from a previous ride are your friend. If you get one that needs a track replaced get an agressive track with nice big cleats. (though not cheap) Man I want to ride now.

How difficult is it to get new suspension bits for the phazer or exciter?
My friends did their best to talk me out of something needing engine work, said they'd hate to see me put more money into the sled than what it is worth or sink a bunch of money in and upgrade. As far as the track goes I was told between 1 and 2 inches on the paddles and no longer than 144in. on the track. We will be riding up in the Dakota's, Minnesota, Michigan etc. on the trails. Trying to stay liquid cooled based off their suggestions, they are telling me to stay away from arctic cats EFI due to it being run off the battery... common failure point I guess?
A question on clutches, when some one post in the add that it's clutched, are they just referring that they've changed the spring and weights for certain performance or is there more to it?

If you are riding on the trails, don't bother with large paddle tracks. Trails are groomed and a standard track, or a trail machine works just fine. If you want something that is good for a long ride, then get a trail machine with a good suspension. I wouldn't mess with upgrading this or that. Just look for a machine that has what you want. It will cost you less in the long run. Stay away from sport machines, unless you like to be beat up. Now, newer machines ride better, but older ones can wear you out quick. I like my Yamaha Venture, nice ride and comfortable. Not a sport machine, but perfect for the trail. If you are going to take long trips then make sure the engine is in top condition. Then replace all the bearings in the rear suspension. Check the crankcase chain also. Problems usually show up in the first 100 miles. Parts can be expensive. I don't change idler wheels, I just replace the bearings for about 1/4 the cost.

[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 12-04-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Fiero_Fan_88: How difficult is it to get new suspension bits for the phazer or exciter? My friends did their best to talk me out of something needing engine work, said they'd hate to see me put more money into the sled than what it is worth or sink a bunch of money in and upgrade. As far as the track goes I was told between 1 and 2 inches on the paddles and no longer than 144in. on the track. We will be riding up in the Dakota's, Minnesota, Michigan etc. on the trails. Trying to stay liquid cooled based off their suggestions, they are telling me to stay away from arctic cats EFI due to it being run off the battery... common failure point I guess? A question on clutches, when some one post in the add that it's clutched, are they just referring that they've changed the spring and weights for certain performance or is there more to it?

They are in a whole different train of thought. New school probs. Its all up to you, some of them may even be riding new 4 stroke sleds. Fan cooled (not liquid) has less problems IMO and is lighter, and without efi you dont even need a battery. I pullstart my sleds so dont even need a battery for electric start, the stock fan runs off a belt from the engine, stock electric grips and lights run off magneto. All that liquid and battery stuff adds weight. For them it doesnt matter, they paid for 800+cc to pull that weight. A phazer is a 480cc, plenty for the weight. They might be impressed once they get over the differences.

The track length is specific per sled, with an older sled like a Phazer only a certain track lug will fit, the largest lugs you can do with the stock setup I think is 1 1/4 inch before they rub the front of the tunnel. My track is stock 121 inch 3/4 inch lugs. As said on groomed trails you dont need much for lugs.

I 've never had to replace suspension parts except bogey wheel bearings and slides..
I like bikebandit for hard to find parts. They have great diagrams too. Some parts might seem expensive, but I've never replaced them.
http://www.bikebandit.com/h.../o/m146628#sch689353
http://www.bikebandit.com/h...rt-pz480ep/o/m146628
http://www.bikebandit.com/h.../o/m146628#sch689356

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 12-04-2012).]

Another thing to think about - does the track have studs. On this side of the country they're almost a necessity due to icy conditions. I've encountered riders stuck on an icy trail at a bottom of a hill. They're tracks weren't studded. Dug out my tow strap & pulled them up.
As you can see, the lugs on my track are well worn.

Yup, depending on where you live/ride, you may need studs. I don't have them on my machines. They would be nice once and a while, but usually our trails are good.

Got a couple mine off the trailer and ready for winter (and ready to sell).

Spent the last few days up in Minnesota and Wisconsin... 1100mi of driving. Averaged out at 13 dealers a day. Rode a bunch and figured out what I like and don't like. Being a starter sled I decided to just find something cheaper that I won't be out of a lot of money if something were to happened. Found a 1994 Polaris XLT, they call it a 600 but its really a 580. Has 984 all original miles, perfect condition. Only fault I can find is there are 2 spots of surface rust on one of the skis. Carbs were just rebuilt and resynced, new belts. Carbides and slides were in great shape. Had a few studs, non bent or pulled through. One hell of a barn find that's for sure. $1,000 cash in hand... Picking it up next Saturday. Man I love the sound of a smooth running triple.
Looks just like this guy... Already sourcing parts for the Xtra 10 suspension upgrade.

Got her home Saturday night. Wasn't what I was originally looking for when I started shopping but I'm very satisfied.
Went ahead and ordered the original owners manuals and the Clymer shop manual. Small list of things to such as flush the coolant system, change oil, lube the suspension. They put new belts on before I picked it up so good deal there. Need to change plugs and wires, a bit frail and brittle. Ride it around a bit and once summer comes learn to powder coat on the suspension bits and learn how to vinyl wrap over those 90's graphics. Also swap in the rear skid of an edge and and Xtra10 swap up front.

Nice score. Nothing like the top-end pull of a triple!
Watch your jetting carefully, those Polaris triples like to burn the middle cylinder.

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86 GT
87 coupe restoration project.

Sold my '98 Ski-Doo MXZ and sounds like the '98 Formula Z will be sold soon. Not enough snow in the last few years to enjoy. Sad.

Have fun!