A pod of Killer Whales are trapped in Northern Canada because of too much ice over the ocean, too early in the season. They are surviving by each taking a breath from one large hole in the ice. Theyre researching a way to free them as ice breakers are too far away. Situation doesnt seem to agree with his idea that the poles ice is receding at a high rate.....and is much smaller than ever before.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: A pod of Killer Whales are trapped in Northern Canada because of too much ice over the ocean, too early in the season. They are surviving by each taking a breath from one large hole in the ice. Theyre researching a way to free them as ice breakers are too far away. Situation doesnt seem to agree with his idea that the poles ice is receding at a high rate.....and is much smaller than ever before.

I thought that the difference in opinion was whether climate change was natural and occurring in a normal time frame or whether it is stimulated and occurring faster due to increased co2 in the atmosphere. Even though the science doesn't predict with 100% accuracy (there are so many variables that exactness is unattainable at the present time) I will always listen to scientists over corporations with vested interests and those who resist change because they want to go on living exactly the way they do no matter what the cost. I'm not an Al Gore fan even though I think there is a very good possibility that we wouldn't have gotten involved in the Iraq fiasco if he had beaten Bush2, the worst president in my memory and that includes Obama of whom I am also not a fan.

[This message has been edited by dratts (edited 01-10-2013).]

http://www.thestarphoenix.c...c/7800950/story.html

above link said the wind shifted the ice and the killer whales are free now
btw ice in January is not news
this ice over was just a small bay off the main hudsons bay

Inuit's say the ice is thin for this time of year and patchie

quote Originally posted by dratts: I thought that the difference in opinion was whether climate change was natural and occurring in a normal time frame or whether it is stimulated and occurring faster due to increased co2 in the atmosphere. Even though the science doesn't predict with 100% accuracy (there are so many variables that exactness is unattainable at the present time) I will always listen to scientists over corporations with vested interests and those who resist change because they want to go on living exactly the way they do no matter what the cost. I'm not an Al Gore fan even though I think there is a very good possibility that we wouldn't have gotten involved in the Iraq fiasco if he had beaten Bush2, the worst president in my memory and that includes Obama of whom I am also not a fan.

great post

No matter what happens, one can make up a non scientific excuse to explain it that supports your agenda. ( and if you fake the numbers, you can make it look like there was science behind it )

Whether is cooling, warming or climate change...fact is theyre still harping every day on tv shows about the shrinking polar ice when its actually doing the same thing its already done for 4 billion years. I saw another one the other day about saving the Polar Bears from extinction. I thought Id seen where Canada or Alaska actually opened a Polar Bear hunting season this or last year... http://www.polarbearhunting.net/

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 01-10-2013).]

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Whether is cooling, warming or climate change...fact is theyre still harping every day on tv shows about the shrinking polar ice when its actually doing the same thing its already done for 4 billion years. I saw another one the other day about saving the Polar Bears from extinction. I thought Id seen where Canada or Alaska actually opened a Polar Bear hunting season this or last year... http://www.polarbearhunting.net/

Doesn't make it right! Polar bears ARE on the decline. The reference posted goes on a and on about how rigorous the hunt is and what an impressive trophy the successful hunter gets. I'm sorry, but the polar bear will never know what hit it! It is just going about being a polar bear in a part of the world where it is a species that has evolved to the point where it is a remarkable creature. I would kill one if I had to in self defense, not so that I could kill It, stuff it and brag about the shot. It disgusts me that anyone would destroy such an amazing animal so that they can have a stuffed one in their study. You have probably guessed that I outgrew the thrill of killing natures creatures a long time ago. I'm ashamed of what I did for no good reason, even though I still enjoy and appreciate fine guns.

Maybe they are in Idaho, but up here in Canada, they are doing just fine

Globe and Mail article April 2012

"the media in southern Canada has led people to believe polar bears are endangered. “They are not.” He added that there are about 15,000 polar bears across Canada’s Arctic. “That’s likely the highest [population level]there has ever been.”

quote Originally posted by dratts: Doesn't make it right! Polar bears ARE on the decline. The reference posted goes on a and on about how rigorous the hunt is and what an impressive trophy the successful hunter gets. I'm sorry, but the polar bear will never know what hit it! It is just going about being a polar bear in a part of the world where it is a species that has evolved to the point where it is a remarkable creature. I would kill one if I had to in self defense, not so that I could kill It, stuff it and brag about the shot. It disgusts me that anyone would destroy such an amazing animal so that they can have a stuffed one in their study. You have probably guessed that I outgrew the thrill of killing natures creatures a long time ago. I'm ashamed of what I did for no good reason, even though I still enjoy and appreciate fine guns .

How about killing an animal to keep it and others from starving due to overpopulation? I find that much more humane. I know plenty of hunters and all of them LOVE the outdoors and all that nature provides. They respect the land and the laws and enjoy being out in the woods. I don't see any reason to be ashamed of any of that. In fact, it is usually the sportsmen who save ecosystems and species.

So if that is the case, what difference does it make if you mount the skin? That's really all that is used in taxidermy, isn't it? Do you eat cow? When was the last time you saw a platter of cow leather in a butcher's meat case?

Jonathan

Very good points! I think I might have gotten a little bit too emotional. Thrill killing still repulses me. Maybe partly because I did a lot of it as a teenager in northern Idaho. All small game

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: How about killing an animal to keep it and others from starving due to overpopulation? I find that much more humane. I know plenty of hunters and all of them LOVE the outdoors and all that nature provides. They respect the land and the laws and enjoy being out in the woods. I don't see any reason to be ashamed of any of that. In fact, it is usually the sportsmen who save ecosystems and species. So if that is the case, what difference does it make if you mount the skin? That's really all that is used in taxidermy, isn't it? Do you eat cow? When was the last time you saw a platter of cow leather in a butcher's meat case? Jonathan

Decline in Arctic ice cap

Satellite data reveals how the new record minimum Arctic sea ice area, from September 16, 2012, compares to the minimum area averaged over the years from 1981 to 2010 (yellow line).

Credit: NASA

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 01-11-2013).]

"NPR failed to mention anywhere in its article that Antarctic sea ice has been growing since satellites first began measuring the ice 33 years ago and the sea ice has been above the 33-year average throughout 2012."

http://www.forbes.com/sites...sets-another-record/

"Mass Balance of the Antarctic Ice Sheet 1992-2008 from ERS and ICESat: Gains exceed losses – Presented by Jay Zwally, NASA Goddard, USA ISMASS"

http://wattsupwiththat.com/...sheet-exceed-losses/

Edit for a pretty pic

[This message has been edited by Arns85GT (edited 01-11-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: Because scientists or thier opinions can never be "bought" because they don't need funding, right? Jonathan

Yep, no money at all - here are just a few programs and their requested funding that they require (all want an increase):

quote – Funding for the U.S. Global Change Research Program (USGCRP), which coordinates and integrates research over 13 executive branch departments and agencies, would increase 21 percent to $2.6 billion. – The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) requests $2.2 billion, an increase of 58 percent, for the National Environmental Satellite, Data, and Information Service (NESDIS). This would restore climate sensors, advance sea height monitoring, and fund NOAA’s Joint Polar Satellite System (formerly NPOESS). – NASA requests a 27 percent increase for Earth Science. NASA would accelerate four Decadal Survey missions, initiate one new climate related mission, and re-launch the Orbiting Carbon Observatory (OCO), which would monitor carbon sources and sinks throughout the world. – The Department of Energy (DOE) request would increase funding for renewable energy (up 37 percent) and energy efficiency (up 12 percent), and eliminate $2.7 billion in subsidies to high emitting industries. Robust funding would continue for Energy Innovation Hubs, Energy Frontier Research Centers, and the Advance Research Projects Agency-Energy. – The Department of the Interior (DOI) request would substantially increase funding for its Climate Change Adaptation initiative (up 26 percent) and renewable energy programs (up 24 percent). – The National Science Foundation (NSF) requests $955 million Geosciences Directorate (a 7.4 percent increase)

http://www.aaas.org/spp/rd/...port2011/11pch15.pdf

(never mind how much money Al Gore has made since he started pushing his carbon credits business - like to know where exactly all this money is going and how it is 'bettering' the environment - obviously he is not dumping it all back into research (or programs to clean up the earth) considering how much he has increased his net worth).

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 01-11-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: Maybe they are in Idaho, but up here in Canada, they are doing just fine Globe and Mail article April 2012 "the media in southern Canada has led people to believe polar bears are endangered. “They are not.” He added that there are about 15,000 polar bears across Canada’s Arctic. “That’s likely the highest [population level]there has ever been.”

Thats what Im saying. I never hunt anything, I even hate earthworms. If they were really endangered, no one would allow hunting them. It is illegal to hunt Bengal Tigers I believe, because they are facing extinction (from what Ive heard)...

"Until recently, the endangered Bengal Tiger was widespread across much of Asia. With only 2,500 of them left in the wild, zoologists have been trying to find ways to stop human-caused habitat loss, over-hunting and persecution of these animals.
Part of a nine tiger subspecies, the Bengal Tiger is the most numerous of them all, with three subspecies already lost to extinction."

''Antarctic sea ice has been growing ''

yes but why is the point you miss
it is NOT like there is a balance between north and south

the north sea ice is going away
in the south land ice is moving into the sea
and that makes more southern sea ice

and remember southern winter is northern summer

WHY
from your link
'' southward movements of rain bands associated with a warmer climate in the high-latitude southern hemisphere made the margins of Antarctica less like a polar desert, and more like present-day Iceland,” a co-author of the NASA study reports.''

or warmer air has more water and creates more snow
not balance just different results of southern land snow vs north pole sea ice to warming

or spin by those who hope to fool you
that is why I call your guys the neo-conned

From Forbes on December 24, 2012:

Antarctic Temperatures Are Rising Twice As Fast As Previously Predicted

"This study adds to a number of studies this year that have shown that previous predictions of the rate of ice melt at both poles, which are considered “alarmist” in some quarters, were in fact far too conservative. Arctic permafrost is also experiencing faster than predicted melts. Additionally, recent research has also demonstrated that sea levels are rising about 60% faster than previously predicted."

http://www.forbes.com/sites...reviously-predicted/

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 01-11-2013).]

Somewhere, Al Gore is laughing his ass off, probably in his 26 room mansion, saying "SUCKERS!"

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Somewhere, Al Gore is laughing his ass off, probably in his 26 room mansion, saying "SUCKERS!"

Yep, and with his money that came from oil. Yeah hypocrits!

quote Originally posted by rinselberg: From Forbes on December 24, 2012: Antarctic Temperatures Are Rising Twice As Fast As Previously Predicted "This study adds to a number of studies this year that have shown that previous predictions of the rate of ice melt at both poles, which are considered “alarmist” in some quarters, were in fact far too conservative. Arctic permafrost is also experiencing faster than predicted melts. Additionally, recent research has also demonstrated that sea levels are rising about 60% faster than previously predicted." http://www.forbes.com/sites...reviously-predicted/

"Antarctic Sea Ice Sets Another Record"

Forbes sucking and blowing at the same time

If that is true, why is there more ice?

After conducting a scientific appraisal of the earth, ive determined that there is much more ice and snow in the northern hemisphere since June of 2012. Parts of Texas normally hot even has had snow and ice in the last month. This has been a totally remarkable December.

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: "Antarctic Sea Ice Sets Another Record" Forbes sucking and blowing at the same time If that is true, why is there more ice?

As I just posted here:

"I think that this demonstrates that no single scientific report can be relied upon to either confirm or disprove Global Warming--or whether or not is is caused or amplified by man-made greenhouse gas emissions. It must be corroborated by a multiplicity of scientific studies, using different premises, methods and databases."

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 01-11-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: Yep, and with his money that came from oil. Yeah hypocrits!

Actually his net worth increased ten fold since he started pushing man made global warming and his start-up carbon credits company - even though he himself has done nothing personally to cut down on his "carbon foot print".

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: A pod of Killer Whales are trapped in Northern Canada because of too much ice over the ocean, too early in the season. They are surviving by each taking a breath from one large hole in the ice. Theyre researching a way to free them as ice breakers are too far away. Situation doesnt seem to agree with his idea that the poles ice is receding at a high rate.....and is much smaller than ever before.

I don't know whether the OP read that in a report, or got it backwards somehow, but according to this report, the reason that the killer whales went into that part of Hudson Bay at this time is because:

quote The bay, which normally freezes over in late November or early December only froze over earlier this week.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 01-12-2013).]

I didnt read it. I saw it on the Today Show news, and since everyone here believes everyone else is a liar, i just googled it and posted the first link. What I said in the original post was what commentator was saying.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: After conducting a scientific appraisal of the earth, ive determined that there is much more ice and snow in the northern hemisphere since June of 2012. Parts of Texas normally hot even has had snow and ice in the last month. This has been a totally remarkable December.

I'm impressed. I had no idea that you were a scientist. May I ask what your science degree and field is?